The liberal mythology of healthcare being a right

[AmericanFirst]

What you are saying is that everyone should be denied the right of access to the AHA because you don't want to exercise yours? Who the fuck are you to decide that?

You don't like that personal choice when it comes to healthcare but you like a socialist system where the gov't. tells you. What an idiot.

What in THE fuck are you blathering about?

I am saying obamacare sucks, like obamaturd.

 

[dblack]

good grief, as I'm writing this I'm hearing Ron Paul's 'victory speech' on the TV - how can he celebrate winning less than 7% of the vote. His message is no less an example of demagoguery than those with whom he is competing for the Republican nomination.

I'm not sure you have a clear understanding of what demagoguery is. The freedom movement is obviously a minority. We get that! Seven percent in a state he didn't even campaign in is promising. That's more than twice as much as he got in 2008.

Most of us supporting Paul aren't deluded enough to think he can win. The deck is stacked against us and the best we can hope for is to continue to build momentum. And that is definitely happening.

Anyway, have a read on demagogy. It's exactly what RP is up against. It's what is used against him by the warmongers and the statists.

 

[dblack]

Oh.... that's right... they should be able to refuse service to anyone... Rich, poor, black, white...based on whatever criteria they choose, right?

Yes. And the public can decide how much it appreciates the kind of "service". Would you patronize doctors and hospitals that practiced the kind of spurious discrimination you're concerned about? How many do you think really would?

 

[LoneLaugher]

You don't see that as crazy? Not even a little?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The topic isn't about me wanting healthcare or not. It's about FORCING it upon me when its supposedly a right. Rights are about freedom, where is the freedom?

Since we’ve established the fact nothing is being ‘forced’ on anyone, the issues of rights and freedom are moot.

No, we don't want to pay for deadbeats healthcare who would rather spend their welfare checks on their illegal drugs.

Nonsense, if they’re getting ‘welfare checks’* they’re already getting Medicaid.




*TANF benefits are issued on an EBT debit card, paper checks haven’t been issued since the late ‘90s.

 

[Steelplate]

So you can't answer the op. Thats fine. Please then point out where I made the ridiculous assertion you just claimed.

That's exactly what you are saying... you don't want to exercise your right to Health Care... fine. Great Idea... perhaps there ought to be a law where YOU don't get Health Care at all if you don't want it.... oh wait... YOU want Health Care.... you just don't want to pay for it with your tax dollars.

No, we don't want to pay for deadbeats healthcare who would rather spend their welfare checks on their illegal drugs.

Oooooo.... the old deadbeat schtick. wow... never gets old, does it? You do realize that the Unemployment rate(even adjusted for those that gave up... is maybe 15% tops?)... that's unemployment..not welfare....so let's say that 5%(which is very generous) of those people had their unemployment run out and are on welfare right now... now... let's give another HIGH estimate of 50% of those people who are truly "Deadbeats" and the other half are just people with shitty luck and will eventually find a job.

so....2.5% of the country equals....10 million people out of 400 million...spread out across our country that are possibly your feared and hated "deadbeats". Don't forget... that number is probably much lower, because I didn't take into account the people who probably will never be able to work to the same level as you and I.... the severely physically handicapped, the profoundly Developmentally Disabled, the truly and irreversibly mentally ill. Also, we have a million or two Citizens in prison at any given time...so knock them off the list too.

First off... if that's the reason you are denying affordable healthcare to hundreds of millions of people, you are fucking nuts. We can afford that miniscule loss.

Second...I am in agreement with you about having an issue with Deadbeats. Let's weed them out and put them to work. I am very much for a "Work for Benefits" program.

 

[dblack]

You don't see that as crazy? Not even a little?

Sure. It's crazy/stupid/irrational, etc... But trying to tell people what to think doesn't work. It leads to oppressive government. It leads to the kind of shit we're up against with the insurance mandate. We're now facing the repercussions of the notion that government can be used to tell people how to live. Real freedom and diversity requires that people be allowed to be irrational, and suffer the consequences. In part, because those kinds of judgements are always subjective, and not amenable to democratic dictate.

 

[Steelplate]

You don't like that personal choice when it comes to healthcare but you like a socialist system where the gov't. tells you. What an idiot.

What in THE fuck are you blathering about?

I am saying obamacare sucks, like obamaturd.

Oh... Hyperbole? Got it.

 

[dblack]

I am in agreement with you about having an issue with Deadbeats. Let's weed them out and put them to work. I am very much for a "Work for Benefits" program.

Sorry to cherry pick this, but I'm seeing this more and more and it scares me. Authoritarians on the left and the right often find this disturbing nexus of agreement where they want to use state created dependency in the most dictatorial fashion. If you can't offer state welfare AND respect the freedom of the people receiving it, don't bother. Or else just CALL it slavery and get it over with.

 

[dblack]

Since we’ve established the fact nothing is being ‘forced’ on anyone, the issues of rights and freedom are moot.

You have not established that. At all.

 

[Steelplate]

I am in agreement with you about having an issue with Deadbeats. Let's weed them out and put them to work. I am very much for a "Work for Benefits" program.

Sorry to cherry pick this, but I'm seeing this more and more and it scares me. Authoritarians on the left and the right often find this disturbing nexus of agreement where they want to use state created dependency in the most dictatorial fashion. If you can't offer state welfare AND respect the freedom of the people receiving it, don't bother. Or else just CALL it slavery and get it over with.

As Opposed to the Libertarian wet dream of letting them starve in the street.... got it.

 

[dblack]

As Opposed to the Libertarian wet dream of letting them starve in the street.... got it.

You forgot "Somalia!!!"

(speaking of demagogy)

 

[The T]

It is a libtard lie saying healthcare is a right.

I repeat -

Actually, its the entitled Socialists on the right who believe they should be able to get free health care just by walking into the emergency room.

Its them thar danged LIB-ruls think you you should have to pay for it.

the poor are the ones receiving free healthcare in hospitals.

The poor overwhelmingly vote for the democrats.

Your theory falls flat on itself.

When people get rewarded for bad behaviour/ they will VOTE for thier enablers.

Fact of life and human existence.

 

[Chris]

A need or even a want is not a right...

You may NEED food... you do not have the right to it at the expense of anyone else/.... though many are generous enough to provide thru donation, volunteerism, etc...

Nobody should be turned away from life saving medical care... but that does not mean that they are not to be billed for it, or billed for all other medical care services...

Even if it bankrupts them and forces them into the streets? This is your vision of America?

Go to some banana Republic and view the end result of your vision. But, I guess it's OK because you feel very secure in your status...Fuck everyone else. The Conservative Mantra.

Yes... for we live with what happens in our lives... it ain't all fair... it ain't all sunshine and rainbows

You are not simply owed something because you want or 'need' it... you're still the one responsible for you and yours

If you have more and have a calling to this charity or that charity... great.. join the others of us who happily support great charities.... I think it is one of the greatest things to do... but charity is not forced or owed, and that is what you and your kind demand

We are forced to pay for bombs that kill children.

But being forced to pay to help sick people, that's bad.

I get it.

 

[dblack]

We are forced to pay for bombs that kill children.

But being forced to pay to help sick people, that's bad.

I get it.

Nope. They're both bad, get it?

 

[Chris]

We are forced to pay for bombs that kill children.

But being forced to pay to help sick people, that's bad.

I get it.

Nope. They're both bad, get it?

How is helping sick people bad?

 

[jillian]

For the sake of this post let's pretend you're right (which you're not).

Every right I can think of involves 2 paths. One to exercise it and one to deny it. Obamacare does the exact opposite. It FORCES you to exercise this so called right. So in essence it oppresses an individuals personal rights to decide for themselves.

You've all been claiming that healthcare is a right so exactly how does this law aid me in EXERCISING my rights? It doesn't, it FORCES me to take a path I may not want to take.

Where is my RIGHT to choose if Obama doesn't offer me a waiver like all his rich friends?

you do understand, gramps, that the government has the right to do things for the general welfare whether those things are "rights" or not. right??

as for whether or not health care is a right. if it isn't, it should be since it goes to basic human dignity. but even if it isn't, it's still the right thing to do since we're the only civilized nation that doesn't take care of its sick.

 

[dblack]

We are forced to pay for bombs that kill children.

But being forced to pay to help sick people, that's bad.

I get it.

Nope. They're both bad, get it?

How is helping sick people bad?

C'mon. Rub a couple neurons together. Helping sick people is good. Forcing people to do it is fucked up.

 

[Chris]

This is the state of the Republican Party today...

Helping sick people is bad.

 

[Chris]

Nope. They're both bad, get it?

How is helping sick people bad?

C'mon. Rub a couple neurons together. Helping sick people is good. Forcing people to do it is fucked up.

Wrong.

The government helping the old and the sick is good.

Saying otherwise is fucked up.