The evolution of spirituality and religion...

[TNHarley]

What about the folklore they stole from things that were not Abrahamic? Like Glycon?

Never heard that name Glycon before, but there are a lot of god names I don't know, they all changed over the years. Somehow that God became Satan.

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus - Listverse
Interesting link.

 

[Dajjal]

I maintain that Muhammad stole directly from the bible and he was well acquainted with it. I have written a lot of set pieces about the Quran and here are a couple of them.

Muslims are fond of saying that the quran is a miracle, because it was dictated by an illiterate Arab who had no access to the bible. Therefore it must have come from God. The quran itself even says it must be from God, Because it confirms all the previous messages. But how would Muhammad know that if he had never heard the bible.

In fact there is a hadith in which Muhammad sends for the Torah to have it read to him, to decide the fate of a Jew and Jewess for commiting adultery, and because the Torah says the punishment is stoning Muhammad had them stoned. This proves he knew the bible well.

Here are three verses in the quran that mention the psalms of the bible by name.


004.163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

017.055 And it is your Lord that knoweth best all beings that are in the heavens and on earth: We did bestow on some prophets more (and other) gifts than on others: and We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms.

021.105 Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."

In any case the quran mentions the Torah, or the books of Moses and Abraham at many verses; Here are some references.

sura 3.48 sura 4.54 sura 11.17 sura 11.110 sura 19.41 sura 17.2 sura 17.4 sura 23.49 sura 25.35 sura 40.53 sura 41.45 sura 45.16 sura 46.12 sura 53.36 sura 87.19 sura 28.2 sura 32.2 sura

The Greek bible was readily avaliable long before Muhammads time, and it is well know that Muslim raiders took many manuscripts along with other plunder.
What is even more obvious is that the greater part of the quran quotes bible story after bible story, and many of these quotes are about Jewish old Testament myths that are obviously no part of real history, and their source can only be Jewish scribes that invented them to promote their own agenda.
There has been much work done on bible criticism, and some of it to show that the story of Noah's ark, and Jonah and the whale, and Adam and Eve, and the drowning of Pharaohs army, and such stories, have no foundation in reality. But the quran claims them all as a previous message from God. I maintain it is obvious Muhammad simply copied these stories from the bible.

 

[Dajjal]

The quran says that the heaven and earth were created in six days. Muslims claim that the Arabic for word day can mean an undetermined amount of time. But I suggest this makes no difference, as The bible was written in Aramic, and Hebrew, then translated into Greek and then into English. So it does not matter that the word for Arabic day is obscure, because it is clear that the quran is copying the bible on the matter of the six days of creation, and the bible also says that a day in the sight of God is as a thousand years to us. This means that both the bible and the quran are saying that God created the heaven and earth in six thousand years. As this is obviously not the case, I put it to you that the real source of the creation myth as it appears in the quran is the bible.

We know the universe has existed for around fourteen billion years,
and we have hubble space telescope pictures of the edge of the universe to prove it.
We also know that the age of the earth is around four billion years, so we know that the universe existed for ten billion years before the earth was formed. We also know that the earth is made of atoms that were formed in the first stars, and ejected into space after they exploded. So planets could not even have been created for the first few billion years of the universe, because there were no heavy atoms in existence. So the bible is wrong and the quran exactly repeats this mythology.

Quran, sura 7.54 Lo! your Lord is Allah who created the heavens and the earth in six days.

Quran, sura 10.3 Lo! your Lord is Allah who created the heaven and earth in six days.

Quran, sura 11.7 And He it is. Who created the heavens and the earth in six days.

Quran, sura 25.59 Who created the heaven and earth and all that is between them in six days.

Quran, sura 50.38 And surely We created the heaven and earth, and all that is between them, in six days.

Quran, sura 57.4 He it is Who created the heaven and earth in six days.

Quran, sura 22.47 A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

Quran, sura 32.4 Allah it is who created the heaven and earth, and that which is between them, in six days. The he mounted the throne. You have not beside him a protecting friend or mediator. Will you not then remember?

Quran, sura 32.5 He directs the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascends unto him, in a day whereof the measure is a thousand years of that you reckon.

Here are the bible sources for these texts.

Bible, Genesis 1.31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Bible 2Peter 3.8 But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is as with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Some people believe that Islam "stole" teachings from Christianity, or that Christianity "stole" from Judaism. Some believe Thelema "stole" from The Golden Dawn and the OTO, and that the Golden Dawn "stole" from the Jewish Kabbalah. Some even believe Abrahamism "stole" from Zoroastrianism, ancient Egyptian religions, and/ or ancient Mesopotamian religions.

What are your thoughts on this?

I would not say Islam "stole" scripture from the Christians, and I would not say Christianity "stole" scripture from Judaism. Tis all Abrahamism. Let the various factions all believe and teach what they want regarding Abrahamic mythology, be they Christian or Muslim or Jew, or even Pagan like myself ^_^

When someone seeks to expand upon Abrahamism and evolve it and make it more relevant to themselves and others and the culture around them, as Mohammad did, I would not say they "stole" from it, rather, that the beautiful tree of Abraham has grown yet another branch.

So Mohammad "stole" nothing. Crowley did not "steal" from the Golden Dawn or Ordo Templi Orientis when he created Thelema. He embraced what he experienced... respected it... and incorporated things about it into a spiritual/ religious system that evolved through him. The Golden Dawn did not "steal" from the Jewish Kabbalah. They embraced it, respected it, and incorporated things about it into a spiritual/ religious system that evolved through them.

Mohammad did not steal from the Bible. He embraced it, respected it, and incorporated things about it into a spiritual/ religious system that evolved through him.

And what of Judaism? What inspired Judaism and kicked off this entire epic movement of Abrahamism? Whatever the case, there is absolutely nothing "wrong" with it. Whether they were inspired by the mysterious ancient pagan religions before them, or the forces Above descended from the sky, or both... my point remains the same. As humans grow and evolve, so will our religions. Let us be open to this and let there be less hatred and discrimination between the many beautiful spiritual/ religious systems of Man.

​

All written religions 'stole' or built upon a previous extant one. But written religions only go back as far as the invention of writing while religious practices go back...A bit further.

Excellent page here
Timeline of religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Prehistoric period (300th millennium to 34th century BCE)[edit]
See also: Prehistoric religion, Paleolithic religion and Evolutionary origin of religions

A commonly held marker for the dawn of religious belief and practice is the advent of intentional burial marks.[1]
300th to 51st millennium BCE[edit]

223,000–100,000 BCE
The earliest evidence of Hominids, such as Neanderthals[2][3] and even Homo heidelbergensis,[3][4] deliberately disposing of deceased individuals usually in funerary caches. The graves, located throughout Eurasia (e.g. the Pontnewydd Cave (Wales), Atapuerca Mountains (Spain), Qafzeh, Es Skhul, Krapina (Croatia),[3] are believed to represent the beginnings of ceremonial rites, although there is some debate about this.[5] Neanderthals placed their deceased in simple graves with little or no concern for grave goods or markers; however, their graves occasionally appeared with limestone blocks in or on them, possibly an archaic form of grave marking.[3] These practices were possibly the result of empathetic feelings towards fellow tribespeople, for example: an infant buried in the Dederiyeh Cave after its joints had disarticulated was placed with concern for the correct anatomical arrangement of its body parts."

 

[Penelope]

What about the folklore they stole from things that were not Abrahamic? Like Glycon?

Never heard that name Glycon before, but there are a lot of god names I don't know, they all changed over the years. Somehow that God became Satan.

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus - Listverse
Interesting link.

Yes, and those stories from India made it up north by the silk trade routes. I think a lot of it is also astro theology (astronomy). The 12 months, the 12 zodiac signs, the 12 sons and the 12 apostles. Jesus says to the apostles when they ask what sign will we see, and he says, the man carrying the water bucket, Aquarius, which comes after Pisces. I think its fascinating to study the religions views and how they came to be. Tells a lot about the cultures.

 

[Penelope]

That was not considered pedophilia back then and its no different than the jews. Want to call them pedophiles too?

You're trying to say that Mohammed didn't know that what he was doing was wrong? Ya sure, now go kiss another carpet.

No more than Benjamin I guess.

note to fellow posters------Penelope, "the health care worker"----has a problem with parables
and fables------she interprets them in the manner of a patient who exhibits CONCRETE
thinking interprets--------anyone interested google "concrete thinking" Nothing much is
known about Benjamin------so there are a few stories in the midrash that no one in their right
mind takes as LITERAL FACT-------there are also stories in the midrash that tell of king
Solomon talking to ants and grasshoppers-----no one takes them literally either-----it is
a "MYSTICAL" pov. If there is anyone out there who thinks that the HARE organized
a race with the TORTOISE? ---------you understand Penelope. In any case there is no religion
built round the "sayings and doings of Benjamin -----so his life is kinda a moot point to the extent
that the life of LITTLE JOHN's (Robin hood's pal) life is a moot point,. The only information about
Benjaimin in the bible (Penelope's CLAIMED source) is that he was the son of Rachel----like
Joseph-------and his father's (Jacob) fave once joseph was shipped off to Egypt-----both looked
like Rachel and had her pretty eyes. There is no history of his raping or stealing or murdering
or declaring HIMSELF KING-----or ------saying or doing much of anything

Thanks for reminding me why I haven't posted in over a month

you're welcome------I am sorry if a factual statement about biblical BENJAMIN-----(12th son of Jacob and not
much of a player in the OT) bothers you. Penelope is delighted that there are legends about this virtually
undocumented kid which include legends that he married when he was three month old ------and then had kids
with a two month old girl when he was 96 PROVE that da jooooos are pedophiles and are taken as
literal in the same manner that the legends of Solomon's conversations with ants and grasshoppers
are as taken as literal. Benjamin is kinda like the ANASTASIA------of Jacob's tribe. The midrash
is chock full of legends which have some sort of MYSTERIOUS IMPORT. It is the only UNPART
of the bible which she reads.

Jacob said he
27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.
(sounds like a sweet kid and had 10 kids by the time he met Joseph and yet the movies display him as a young child)

The book of Jasher , referred to in the OT, tells us more about little Benji, and if one reads the book of Jasher they will realize it came before the OT, and was used to write the OT. since it was referred to in the OT. It was probably taken from Sumer.

 

[irosie91]

[QUOTE="Penelope,
like Rachel and had her pretty eyes. There is no history of his raping or stealing or murdering
or declaring HIMSELF KING-----or ------saying or doing much of anything[/QUOTE]

Thanks for reminding me why I haven't posted in over a month[/QUOTE]

you're welcome------I am sorry if a factual statement about biblical BENJAMIN-----(12th son of Jacob and not
much of a player in the OT) bothers you. Penelope is delighted that there are legends about this virtually
undocumented kid which include legends that he married when he was three month old ------and then had kids
with a two month old girl when he was 96 PROVE that da jooooos are pedophiles and are taken as
literal in the same manner that the legends of Solomon's conversations with ants and grasshoppers
are as taken as literal. Benjamin is kinda like the ANASTASIA------of Jacob's tribe. The midrash
is chock full of legends which have some sort of MYSTERIOUS IMPORT. It is the only UNPART
of the bible which she reads.[/QUOTE]

Jacob said he
27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.
(sounds like a sweet kid and had 10 kids by the time he met Joseph and yet the movies display him as a young child)

The book of Jasher , referred to in the OT, tells us more about little Benji, and if one reads the book of Jasher they will realize it came before the OT, and was used to write the OT. since it was referred to in the OT. It was probably taken from Sumer.[/QUOTE]

oh------it was written before the OT -----so it must come from Sumeria. You got that citation handy----
where is the BOOK OF JASHER cited in the OT referencing Benjamin?. Do you know what the word
JASHER means? (well----you can google). Also---since you never read the bible----it is obvious
that you are taking your information about Benjamin and "THE BOOK OF JASHER" from another source----
how about you provide that source. Try not to cite WIKI. Please cite the Sumerian writing from which
"the book of jasher" was derived. For the record ---fellow posters-----the BOOK OF JASHER is not
included in the TANACH----which is the book which we, in the USA, call "the old testament" Da jooos
have been prolific writers for a very long time.

 

[irosie91]

I should add----that jews LIVING in Mesopotamia also did LOTS OF WRITING----in fact parts of the
bible-----were written in Aramaic------I believe that the book of Daniel is either partly or mostly
in Aramaic Daniel was written -----probably, during the Babylonian captivity

 

[Dajjal]

Here is an index of the Quranic verses that mention bible characters. What more proof is needed than this to show the Quran is largely copied from the bible?


Aaron, 4:163, 6:84, 7:122, 7:142, 7:150, 7:172, 10:75, 19:53, 20:30, 20:40, 20:90, 20:92, 21:48, 23:45, 25:35, 26:12, 26:48, 28:34, 37:114-120

Abraham, 2:124-129, 2:130-132, 2:135, 2:136, 2:140, 2:258, 2:260, 3:65, 3:67-68, 3:84, 3:95, 3:97, 4:54-55, 4:125, 4:163, 6:74-83, 6:161, 9:70, 9:114, 11:69-76, 12:6, 12:38, 14:35, 15:51-56, 16:120, 16:123, 19:41-49, 19:58, 21:51-73, 22:26, 22:43, 22:78, 26:69, 29:16, 29:25, 29:31, 33:7, 37:83-109, 38:45, 42:13, 43:26, 51:24-34, 53:37, 57:26, 60:4-5, 87:19

Adam, 2:31-32, 3:33, 5:27, 7:19-25, 17:61, 17:70, 18:50, 19:58, 20:115-123, 40:31, 41:13, 41:15

Cain and Abel, 5:27-31

David, 4:163, 5:78, 6:84, 17:55, 21:78, 21:79, 27:15-16, 34:10, 34:13, 38:17, 38:21-26, 38:30

Elijah, 6:85, 37:123-130

Isaac, 2:136, 2:140, 3:84, 4:163, 6:84, 11:71, 12:5, 12:6, 12:38, 14:39, 21:72, 37:112-113, 38:45

Ishmael, 2:136, 2:140, 3:84, 4:163, 6:86, 14:39, 21:85, 37:102-109, 38:48

Jacob (Israel), 3:84, 4:163, 6:84, 6:85, 11:71, 12:38, 12:68, 19:6, 19:49-50, 19:58, 21:72

Jesus, 4:163, 9:30, 9:31, 10:68, 19:30-34, 21:91, 23:50, 33:7, 61:6, 61:14

Job, 4:163, 6:84, 21:83, 38:41-44

John the Baptist, 3:38-40, 6:85, 6:86, 19:7-15, 21:90

Jonah, 4:163, 6:86, 10:98, 21:87, 37:139-148, 68:48

Joseph, 6:84, 12:4-101, 12:102, 40:34

Mary, 3:34-37, 3:42-47, 4:156-157, 4:171, 5:17, 5:46, 5:72, 5:78, 5:110, 5:112, 5:114, 5:116, 9:31, 19:16-39, 21:91, 23:50, 33:7, 43:57, 56:27, 61:6, 61:14, 66:12

Moses, 3:84, 6:84, 6:91, 7:103-162, 10:75-93, 11:96, 11:110, 14:5, 14:6, 14:8, 17:2, 17:101-104, 18:60-82, 19:51-53, 20:9-98, 21:48, 22:44, 23:45-49, 25:35, 26:10-66, 27:7-14, 28:3-43, 28:44, 28:48, 28:76, 29:39, 32:23, 33:7, 33:69, 37:114-120, 40:23-27, 40:53, 41:45, 42:13, 43:46-55, 44:17-36, 46:12, 46:30, 51:38-40, 53:36, 61:5, 79:14-25, 87:19

Noah, 3:33, 6:84, 7:59-64, 7:69, 9:70, 10:71, 11:25-33, 11:36-48, 11:89, 14:9, 17:3, 17:17, 19:58, 21:76, 22:42, 23:23-29, 25:37, 26:105-120, 29:14, 37:75-79, 38:12, 40:5, 40:31, 42:13, 50:12, 51:46, 53:52, 54:9, 57:26, 66:10

Pharaoh, 7:104-137, 8:52, 8:54, 10:75-90, 11:97, 14:6, 20:24, 20:43, 20:56, 20:60, 20:78, 23:46, 26:10-66, 27:12, 28:3-42, 29:39, 38:12, 40:24-46, 43:46-85, 44:17, 44:31, 50:13, 51:38-40, 54:41-42, 66:11, 69:9, 73:15-16, 79:17-25, 85:18

Saul, 2:247, 2:249

Solomon, 2:101, 4:163, 6:84, 21:78, 21:79, 21:81, 27:15-21, 34:12-14

Zachariah, 3:37-41, 6:85, 19:2-12

 

[September]

 

[September]

I maintain that Muhammad stole directly from the bible and he was well acquainted with it. I have written a lot of set pieces about the Quran and here are a couple of them.

Muslims are fond of saying that the quran is a miracle, because it was dictated by an illiterate Arab who had no access to the bible. Therefore it must have come from God. The quran itself even says it must be from God, Because it confirms all the previous messages. But how would Muhammad know that if he had never heard the bible.

In fact there is a hadith in which Muhammad sends for the Torah to have it read to him, to decide the fate of a Jew and Jewess for commiting adultery, and because the Torah says the punishment is stoning Muhammad had them stoned. This proves he knew the bible well.

Here are three verses in the quran that mention the psalms of the bible by name.


004.163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

017.055 And it is your Lord that knoweth best all beings that are in the heavens and on earth: We did bestow on some prophets more (and other) gifts than on others: and We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms.

021.105 Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."

In any case the quran mentions the Torah, or the books of Moses and Abraham at many verses; Here are some references.

sura 3.48 sura 4.54 sura 11.17 sura 11.110 sura 19.41 sura 17.2 sura 17.4 sura 23.49 sura 25.35 sura 40.53 sura 41.45 sura 45.16 sura 46.12 sura 53.36 sura 87.19 sura 28.2 sura 32.2 sura

The Greek bible was readily avaliable long before Muhammads time, and it is well know that Muslim raiders took many manuscripts along with other plunder.
What is even more obvious is that the greater part of the quran quotes bible story after bible story, and many of these quotes are about Jewish old Testament myths that are obviously no part of real history, and their source can only be Jewish scribes that invented them to promote their own agenda.
There has been much work done on bible criticism, and some of it to show that the story of Noah's ark, and Jonah and the whale, and Adam and Eve, and the drowning of Pharaohs army, and such stories, have no foundation in reality. But the quran claims them all as a previous message from God. I maintain it is obvious Muhammad simply copied these stories from the bible.

There are plenty of Muslims who believe that Muhammad was inspired by Jewish and Christian writings and in fact had studied plenty of them. Why not? It is not some fundamental Muslim belief to believe that Muhammad never learned from any of those things. That doesn't mean the Quran is any less holy or any less linked to God.

If Muhammad immersed himself in holy scripture and allowed those spiritual/ religious systems to evolve and manifest into a new phase and direction through him (in a way that was more relevant to himself and the world and culture around him) with the aid of what he perceived to be an "angel"... which may have been a visiter from the stars, or just his higher self... then it is not inaccurate to believe that "God/ YHWH/ Allah" inspired and guided the writing of the Quran.

So if a Muslim says the Quran "came from Allah", I understand what they mean. When a Christian says the Bible "was written by God", I know what they mean. When the force that is God is calling out to you, and you let God in, and you feel God flowing through you, and by working in harmony with what you perceive to be the Will of God you create a new or evolved spiritual/ religious system and contribute a new or evolved holy scripture.... you have embraced God, and God has embraced you... be God something cosmic and extraterrestrial, or a current of energy patterns flowing through the collective human subconscious, or one's "higher self"... it would not be inaccurate to believe that your spiritual/ religious system and evolved scripture was forged by God.

​

 

[Dajjal]

That doesn't mean the Quran is any less holy or any less linked to God.

I maintain that if the Quran was inspired, or authored by God, then God is a sadistic monster. See the following list of people God has destroyed.

Here are some of the people the Allah of the quran is supposed to have destroyed. The people of Lot, and Thalmud, and Ad, and Pharaoh, and Sodom and Gomorrah, and Tubba.

Is God a maniac? is God a monster? but most of all is he completely incompetent, that he has to keep destroying people. Well the obvious answer is that God is none of these things, because he did not dictate the quran, it was all made up by Muhammad to scare people into following him.

7.4 How many towns have We destroyed (for their sins)? Our punishment took them on a sudden by night or while they slept for their afternoon rest.

8.54 (Deeds) after the manner of the people of Pharaoh and those before them": They treated as false the Signs of their Lord: so We destroyed them for their crimes, and We drowned the people of Pharaoh: for they were all oppressors and wrong- doers.

10.13 Generations before you We destroyed when they did wrong: their apostles came to them with clear-signs, but they would not believe! thus do We requite those who sin!

17.17 How many generations have We destroyed after Noah? and enough is thy Lord to note and see the sins of His servants.

18.59 Such were the populations we destroyed when they committed iniquities; but we fixed an appointed time for their destruction.

19.74 But how many (countless) generations before them have we destroyed, who were even better in equipment and in glitter to the eye?

19.98 But how many (countless) generations before them have We destroyed? Canst thou find a single one of them (now) or hear (so much as) a whisper of them?

44.37 What! Are they better than the people of Tubba and those who were before them? We destroyed them because they were guilty of sin.


053.050 And that it is He Who destroyed the (powerful) ancient 'Ad (people),

53.53 And He destroyed the Overthrown Cities (of Sodom and Gomorrah).

54.34 We sent against them a violent Tornado with showers of stones, (which destroyed them), except Lut's household: them We delivered by early Dawn,-

69.5 But the Thamud,- they were destroyed by a terrible Storm of thunder and lightning!

69.6 And the 'Ad, they were destroyed by a furious Wind, exceedingly violent;

 

[Dajjal]

Here is what the God described in the Quran will do to unbelievers in Muhammad and the day of judgement, and remember the Quran says this is for all eternity.


22.19 These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.
22.20 With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.
22.21 In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them.
22.22 Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"


4.56 Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for God is Exalted in Power, Wise.

 

[September]

That doesn't mean the Quran is any less holy or any less linked to God.

I maintain that if the Quran was inspired, or authored by God, then God is a sadistic monster. See the following list of people God has destroyed.

Here are some of the people the Allah of the quran is supposed to have destroyed. The people of Lot, and Thalmud, and Ad, and Pharaoh, and Sodom and Gomorrah, and Tubba.

Is God a maniac? is God a monster? but most of all is he completely incompetent, that he has to keep destroying people. Well the obvious answer is that God is none of these things, because he did not dictate the quran, it was all made up by Muhammad to scare people into following him.

Dude... have you EVER read the Old Testament? God was freakin' brutal in the OT!

In the OT, God killed humans by:

***-personally consuming them with fire

-altering the weather

-drowning the entire freakin' world in a massive flood

-wind

-hail

-lightning

-opening the earth to swallow them whole

-inflicting people with disease

-plague

-starving them to death/ famine

-causing a wall to fall over and crush them

-mysteriously shifting the tide of battles in the favor of his chosen warriors

-blessing a man with superhuman strength for the sole purpose of slaughtering Philistines

-giving certain prophets deadly force powers (which one prophet used to summon two bears that mauled forty children to death because they made fun of the prophet's bald head)

-compelling animals (lions, fiery serpents, and others)

-compelling friends and family to slaughter each other

-nuking the living hell out of Sodom and Gomorrah

-turning someone into a pillar of salt

-the Ark

-sending a death angel to kill firstborn sons, including babies

-sending other angels to kill

-sending wicked spirits to kill

***-causing people's bowels to fall out

-giving the Devil permission and possibly even the temporary ability to go out and slaughter innocent human beings, just to prove a point

Etc...

The supreme God mentioned in the Old Testament is a Master of Creation and a Master of Destruction. It bewilders me that you seem to think that this epic depiction of God is unique to the Quran. YHWH is not a "God of love", like the myths of Aphrodite or Cupid lmao. God creates and God destroys, and apparently excels at it.

The God described in the OT is a badass. A God of Creation... and a God of Destruction.

"6 In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.

7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.

8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.

9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet."

-Psalms 18:6-9

​

 

[Dajjal]

Dude... have you EVER read the Old Testament? God was freakin' brutal in the OT!

I don't care what it says in the old testament as I believe it is largely Jewish myths. It seems clear to me that Muhammad stole the idea of scaring people with a God of wrath from the OT and he elaborated on the torments of hellfire to make people follow him.

 

[September]

I don't care what it says in the old testament as I believe it is largely Jewish myths. It seems clear to me that Muhammad stole the idea of scaring people with a God of wrath from the OT and he elaborated on the torments of hellfire to make people follow him.

So you have never actually read the Old Testament? What about the New Testament? In the NT, even Jesus "elaborates on the torments of hellfire to make people follow him". That tactic was not unique to Muhammad...

Why do you hate on the Quran and Islam and not the Bible, Judaism and Christianity?

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[Dajjal]

I don't care what it says in the old testament as I believe it is largely Jewish myths. It seems clear to me that Muhammad stole the idea of scaring people with a God of wrath from the OT and he elaborated on the torments of hellfire to make people follow him.

So you have never actually read the Old Testament? What about the New Testament? In the NT, even Jesus "elaborates on the torments of hellfire to make people follow him". That tactic was not unique to Muhammad...

Why do you hate on the Quran and Islam and not the Bible, Judaism and Christianity?

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I did not give a damn what Muslims believed until 9/11. I was shocked by that event and read the Quran to try to understand their mind set. I thought the Quran was going to be a spiritual book like the new testament, But I found it a book of calculated lies about God. My feeling that I should embark on criticism of the Quran was compounded by the London 7/7 attacks. I do not see how we can get rid of Islamic terrorism without getting rid of Islam because it has warmongering built into it.
The Quran says things like " fighting is prescribed for you whether you like it or not" and it says if you die fighting for Allah he will give you a great reward in paradise.

 

[September]

But have you even read the New Testament? You praise it as a spiritual book, which it is, as the Quran is, but how would you know that if you have not read it in its entirety? And the happy stories in the New Testament are part of a larger whole that isn't all about peace and love... the bible as a whole is the most brutal and violent thing I have ever read.

You cannot eliminate Islam. Your so called crusade is pointless. Even if you were to sway a single person, or five, or ten, or more, away from the religion of Islam, those are but drops in the ocean of humanity and your actions against Islam will have no real effect whatsoever, as even outside of Islam, they are still endowed with human Nature and the capacity to perform great acts of "evil" if they so choose. Is it all really worth it? Is that truly something you Will to dedicate your life to? A pointless and irrelevant endeavor? Or perhaps this false sense of purpose has occupied a void deep within you that you were too eagerly seeking to fill with anything that would grant you the slightest feeling of fulfillment or purpose... as is the case with countless disillusioned Christians.

You have allowed propaganda to manipulate your choices and twist your mind until now you have allowed this false crusade of yours to slowly transform you into the very thing you perceive Islam and Muslims to be.

It is not to late to open your eyes. You are many things, Dijjal... and a bigot does not have to be one of them. You are an artist, why not pour your passion and energy into that again? You are an occultist. Why not immerse yourself in the wonderous and beautiful secrets and mysteries of the universe, of human Nature, and the spiritual/ religious systems of man... but from a less hateful and more open minded perspective? Your personal Jihad against Islam is the one thing preventing you from being a breathtakingly amazing and admirable person. Just let it go ^_^

It's not to late for you to make some incredible contribution the occult or even art. You have something unique and special in you that most people don't have, but you are throwing it all away with your obsession against Islam. Don't become what you despise so much... become what you love

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[Dajjal]

ISIS is waging a cruel war to claim territory and they have beheaded an English social worker, and other innocent people in videos. They are trying to expand their territory and they need to be stopped. I am not one for dropping bombs on them and will leave that to others. But if I can undermine them in any way on the Internet I will. If their motivation is that they think they are doing Gods will I aim to tell them they are not. They are simply following the lies of an Arab bandit who falsely claimed to get a message from God. But in reality he used religion to enslave peoples minds so they would fight his battles for him.

 

[Spinster]

Some people believe that Islam "stole" teachings from Christianity, or that Christianity "stole" from Judaism. Some believe Thelema "stole" from The Golden Dawn and the OTO, and that the Golden Dawn "stole" from the Jewish Kabbalah. Some even believe Abrahamism "stole" from Zoroastrianism, ancient Egyptian religions, and/ or ancient Mesopotamian religions.

What are your thoughts on this?

I would not say Islam "stole" scripture from the Christians, and I would not say Christianity "stole" scripture from Judaism. Tis all Abrahamism. Let the various factions all believe and teach what they want regarding Abrahamic mythology, be they Christian or Muslim or Jew, or even Pagan like myself ^_^

When someone seeks to expand upon Abrahamism and evolve it and make it more relevant to themselves and others and the culture around them, as Mohammad did, I would not say they "stole" from it, rather, that the beautiful tree of Abraham has grown yet another branch.

So Mohammad "stole" nothing. Crowley did not "steal" from the Golden Dawn or Ordo Templi Orientis when he created Thelema. He embraced what he experienced... respected it... and incorporated things about it into a spiritual/ religious system that evolved through him. The Golden Dawn did not "steal" from the Jewish Kabbalah. They embraced it, respected it, and incorporated things about it into a spiritual/ religious system that evolved through them.

Mohammad did not steal from the Bible. He embraced it, respected it, and incorporated things about it into a spiritual/ religious system that evolved through him.

And what of Judaism? What inspired Judaism and kicked off this entire epic movement of Abrahamism? Whatever the case, there is absolutely nothing "wrong" with it. Whether they were inspired by the mysterious ancient pagan religions before them, or the forces Above descended from the sky, or both... my point remains the same. As humans grow and evolve, so will our religions. Let us be open to this and let there be less hatred and discrimination between the many beautiful spiritual/ religious systems of Man.

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Why is a self proclaimed "pagan" such as yourself even concerned with religion and Christianity? You have no belief system other than believing in yourself, so why bother? Are you trolling or have some other agenda which isn't at all clear from your post?