The decline of Christian America

[turzovka]

It's better that way, really. I don't delude myself that I have an eternity to make up for earthly fuck-ups. So, I tell the people that I love that I love them, frequently. I seize the day. I squeeze the sweetness out of my time on this earth, and I deal with the fact that my time really is short.

No, but in my opinion you delude yourself into thinking there is no God and no reason to worry about it.

And you delude the many hundreds of millions in this world who know no life but suffering and oppression into a false message “this is all there is Charlie, that’s the breaks.” Meanwhile, the Christian missionaries not only care for them (more than most humanists would), but give them great hope and reason to believe. And guess what? That not only delivers a powerful important message, it also provides a greater feeling of goodness during their life here on earth. It’s a win-WIN situation.

You, on the other hand, are trying to tell us because we believe in heaven and conduct our lives here on earth with heaven in mind, that somehow we are less joyful than you, and that we have shirked our earthly duties towards our fellow man. Could anything be further from the truth?

God has promised us an eternity with those who were dear to us while on earth. But you settle for so little. A hug and a memory and oblivion. That to me would make me extremely sad, not happy, and not even filled with much gratitude. God is not so cruel as that.

 

[irosie91]

Jesus was a Pharisee -----the Pharisees at the time of
Jesus had no power. Their influence was entirely in the field of scholarship. The people in power were the romans and the SADDUCEE shills to whom they conferred some power

Jesus was not a Pharisee. Why are you making that claim?

because I am not stupid. I never had a "religious" education------For an American jew like me that means
I never went to "Hebrew school" or any jewish summer
camp etc etc----my parents are secular type democrats of the typical jewish type. I grew up in a mostly Christian (catholic and protestant of the Lutheran/Methodist/Episcopalian type) town and did
get invited to "sunday school"-------and attended public
school-----town type. Ie---very white bread American
upbringing---except democrat parents in a republican
town. My one real problem was I was a precocious and
avid reader with not a whole lot to read-----so I read
anything around----including the bible----"old" and "new"
I learned all kinds of ODD things and can do fairly
well----guessing---whilst watching Jeapordy. I know
stuff about the situation in "JUDEA" at the time Jesus
lived as a matter of simple general knowledge As a teen I learned a tiny bit of Hebrew (in an entirely secular
public school setting) I took a look at some of the actual writings of about 2000 years ago----like Josephus
Flavius, Philo, Hillel etc. and later on I lived amongst
really hot shot jews-----ie chassidim and learned stuff
about their POV (generally as an outsider) I will give
you a little clue ----if you are a Christian-----you have
absolutely no idea who and what Pharisees were---
every word you heard about them in sunday school
and church was SHEER NONSENSE. What you heard about Pharisees was invented by the ROMANS
who hated them because they rebelled against roman
rule. Here is another clue----HILLEL was a popular
scholar at the time of Jesus (died either right before Jesus was born or right after) If you read the NT and
the writings of Hillel, you would know that Jesus---like
all the rest of the Pharisees were HIS FOLLOWERS.
Also----another fact that you never heard in sunday school-------the PHARISEES HATED THE MONEY
CHANGERS who set up in the temple courtyard---
WITH ALL THEIR HEARTS

Educate yourself.
"The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:2-9 RSV)

No one knows who Matthew was. He has a Hebrew name-----but no history. No one knows who wrote the
book attributed to Matthew or even when it was written.
The NT was compiled under the editorship of CONSTANTINE-----he hated Pharisees and murdered
lots of them. He had nothing against the "money-changers" It is almost surprising that the episode of
overturning their tables ---'GOT IN'

Were you home schooled?
Matthew was one of the 12 disciples.

I went to USA white bread public school and to about a dozen sundays in "sunday school" I know all about the putative 12 disciples. Matthew wrote the first
"gospel" ----he is sometimes described as a tax collector but has no real history. Your belief that he was
somehow a companion to Jesus is based on faith.
IMHO it is not realistic. For whom do you imagine
he was collecting taxes? for "THE PHARISEES"??
for "THE MONEY CHANGERS"?? -----uhm ---oh I
know-----for the RABBIS WITH THE BIG GIANT
PHYLACTERIES ------try to remember what your sunday
school teacher told you

 

[Lilah]

Jesus was not a Pharisee. Why are you making that claim?

because I am not stupid. I never had a "religious" education------For an American jew like me that means
I never went to "Hebrew school" or any jewish summer
camp etc etc----my parents are secular type democrats of the typical jewish type. I grew up in a mostly Christian (catholic and protestant of the Lutheran/Methodist/Episcopalian type) town and did
get invited to "sunday school"-------and attended public
school-----town type. Ie---very white bread American
upbringing---except democrat parents in a republican
town. My one real problem was I was a precocious and
avid reader with not a whole lot to read-----so I read
anything around----including the bible----"old" and "new"
I learned all kinds of ODD things and can do fairly
well----guessing---whilst watching Jeapordy. I know
stuff about the situation in "JUDEA" at the time Jesus
lived as a matter of simple general knowledge As a teen I learned a tiny bit of Hebrew (in an entirely secular
public school setting) I took a look at some of the actual writings of about 2000 years ago----like Josephus
Flavius, Philo, Hillel etc. and later on I lived amongst
really hot shot jews-----ie chassidim and learned stuff
about their POV (generally as an outsider) I will give
you a little clue ----if you are a Christian-----you have
absolutely no idea who and what Pharisees were---
every word you heard about them in sunday school
and church was SHEER NONSENSE. What you heard about Pharisees was invented by the ROMANS
who hated them because they rebelled against roman
rule. Here is another clue----HILLEL was a popular
scholar at the time of Jesus (died either right before Jesus was born or right after) If you read the NT and
the writings of Hillel, you would know that Jesus---like
all the rest of the Pharisees were HIS FOLLOWERS.
Also----another fact that you never heard in sunday school-------the PHARISEES HATED THE MONEY
CHANGERS who set up in the temple courtyard---
WITH ALL THEIR HEARTS

Educate yourself.
"The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:2-9 RSV)

No one knows who Matthew was. He has a Hebrew name-----but no history. No one knows who wrote the
book attributed to Matthew or even when it was written.
The NT was compiled under the editorship of CONSTANTINE-----he hated Pharisees and murdered
lots of them. He had nothing against the "money-changers" It is almost surprising that the episode of
overturning their tables ---'GOT IN'

Were you home schooled?
Matthew was one of the 12 disciples.

I went to USA white bread public school and to about a dozen sundays in "sunday school" I know all about the putative 12 disciples. Matthew wrote the first
"gospel" ----he is sometimes described as a tax collector but has no real history. Your belief that he was
somehow a companion to Jesus is based on faith.
IMHO it is not realistic. For whom do you imagine
he was collecting taxes? for "THE PHARISEES"??
for "THE MONEY CHANGERS"?? -----uhm ---oh I
know-----for the RABBIS WITH THE BIG GIANT
PHYLACTERIES ------try to remember what your sunday
school teacher told you

ما تقرأ باللغة العربية

What makes you think I was raised Christian? Your omniscient radar?
Since you appear to be passing yourself off as a biblical scholar, surely you've read a vast amount of books on the subject.
Have you perhaps read, The Scrolls and The New Testament?
If so, perhaps you can regale us with your interpretation.

 

[Penelope]

How can someone be a secular Jew, pray tell?

jews define what is "secular jew"------a "secular jew"----for a jew adherent to ritual is any jew less adherent than is he. Try not to obsess on the concept. There have been secular jews since moses ascended mount Sinai. In fact----there have been secular jews since before jews were called jews. Esau----the fraternal twin brother of Jacob (later renamed 'Israel') was a secular Jew (actually a secular Hebrew) He entertained himself by hunting wild animals which is proscribed for adherent Jews (at that time called 'hebrew') ---therefore he was a secular jew (Hebrew). Feel free to ask questions

They are atheist or agnostic and see Judaism as a more a tradition and culture , not religion. Esau and Jacob were not even jews.

you----have no idea how another person "sees" anything------all you see is the cock you happen to
be sucking at any given moment. Esau and Jacob
are historical characters who did not speak English-----
you will have no opportunity to sell your stinking ass to either of them----they are both dead

If they existed.

right----if they existed----they are historical characters in jewish scriptural writings. Like Heinrich Schliemann, I believe that scriptural writings are based in real history. I believe that there was a person named Muhummad approximately 1400 years ago and a person named yeshua ben Yosef ---about 2000 years ago despite the absence of birth certificates. Like Heinrich Schliemann, I believe that there were really
people named Odysseus and Hector in TROY about 3000 years ago. I do not believe that an entity really named "penelope" posts on this messageboard. The entity which calls itself penelope is such an idiot---that it has decided that characters described in jewish scriptural
writings should not be called "jews"-----because "jew" is not the word that would have been used to describe them in the time that they are described as having lived. We do call Odysseus a "greek" ----but if he had ever lived---he would never have had heard that word

If this nation has become non-Christian, I blame Christians for that. Instead of following the example of Jesus Christ, they have turned aside to seek political power and control over other people. Their message is one of hate and intolerance, not love.

They are no different from the Pharisees.

Jesus was a Pharisee -----the Pharisees at the time of
Jesus had no power. Their influence was entirely in the field of scholarship. The people in power were the romans and the SADDUCEE shills to whom they conferred some power

Jesus was not a Pharisee. Why are you making that claim?

because I am not stupid. I never had a "religious" education------For an American jew like me that means
I never went to "Hebrew school" or any jewish summer
camp etc etc----my parents are secular type democrats of the typical jewish type. I grew up in a mostly Christian (catholic and protestant of the Lutheran/Methodist/Episcopalian type) town and did
get invited to "sunday school"-------and attended public
school-----town type. Ie---very white bread American
upbringing---except democrat parents in a republican
town. My one real problem was I was a precocious and
avid reader with not a whole lot to read-----so I read
anything around----including the bible----"old" and "new"
I learned all kinds of ODD things and can do fairly
well----guessing---whilst watching Jeapordy. I know
stuff about the situation in "JUDEA" at the time Jesus
lived as a matter of simple general knowledge As a teen I learned a tiny bit of Hebrew (in an entirely secular
public school setting) I took a look at some of the actual writings of about 2000 years ago----like Josephus
Flavius, Philo, Hillel etc. and later on I lived amongst
really hot shot jews-----ie chassidim and learned stuff
about their POV (generally as an outsider) I will give
you a little clue ----if you are a Christian-----you have
absolutely no idea who and what Pharisees were---
every word you heard about them in sunday school
and church was SHEER NONSENSE. What you heard about Pharisees was invented by the ROMANS
who hated them because they rebelled against roman
rule. Here is another clue----HILLEL was a popular
scholar at the time of Jesus (died either right before Jesus was born or right after) If you read the NT and
the writings of Hillel, you would know that Jesus---like
all the rest of the Pharisees were HIS FOLLOWERS.
Also----another fact that you never heard in sunday school-------the PHARISEES HATED THE MONEY
CHANGERS who set up in the temple courtyard---
WITH ALL THEIR HEARTS

Educate yourself.
"The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:2-9 RSV)

How can someone be a secular Jew, pray tell?

jews define what is "secular jew"------a "secular jew"----for a jew adherent to ritual is any jew less adherent than is he. Try not to obsess on the concept. There have been secular jews since moses ascended mount Sinai. In fact----there have been secular jews since before jews were called jews. Esau----the fraternal twin brother of Jacob (later renamed 'Israel') was a secular Jew (actually a secular Hebrew) He entertained himself by hunting wild animals which is proscribed for adherent Jews (at that time called 'hebrew') ---therefore he was a secular jew (Hebrew). Feel free to ask questions

They are atheist or agnostic and see Judaism as a more a tradition and culture , not religion. Esau and Jacob were not even jews.

you----have no idea how another person "sees" anything------all you see is the cock you happen to
be sucking at any given moment. Esau and Jacob
are historical characters who did not speak English-----
you will have no opportunity to sell your stinking ass to either of them----they are both dead

If they existed.

right----if they existed----they are historical characters in jewish scriptural writings. Like Heinrich Schliemann, I believe that scriptural writings are based in real history. I believe that there was a person named Muhummad approximately 1400 years ago and a person named yeshua ben Yosef ---about 2000 years ago despite the absence of birth certificates. Like Heinrich Schliemann, I believe that there were really
people named Odysseus and Hector in TROY about 3000 years ago. I do not believe that an entity really named "penelope" posts on this messageboard. The entity which calls itself penelope is such an idiot---that it has decided that characters described in jewish scriptural
writings should not be called "jews"-----because "jew" is not the word that would have been used to describe them in the time that they are described as having lived. We do call Odysseus a "greek" ----but if he had ever lived---he would never have had heard that word

Oh rest assured they are going to find lots of stuff now trying to prove King David and Solomon and his what 700 wifes existed, but that won't mean they did. Stories are made up and passed down, and while you may of had some kings they were nothing like Alexander, King Cyrus, Darius, or the Roman Emperors, Caesars, and even some of the Egyptian Kings. Most of it is fabricated. Since so much exaggeration and myth is in the Bible and the same stories with a different twist from other ancients , we really have no idea who these people were or how much is based on actual fact. Most of it is not, like the exodus, never happened.

 

[norwegen]

If this nation has become non-Christian, I blame Christians for that. Instead of following the example of Jesus Christ, they have turned aside to seek political power and control over other people. Their message is one of hate and intolerance, not love.

They are no different from the Pharisees.

I would say you are half right and half wrong.

Yes, I blame the Christians, too, me included.

No, it is not because they have preached a message of hate and intolerance ---- even if a very small percentage of them have. That is a very naïve or demagogic response, imo.

The "Christians" are to blame because those who claim to be Christian are a decided majority in this nation. And it appears to me the majority have engaged in an inordinate amount of self-love, materialism, carnal desires, laziness in following the tenets of the faith even if they attend services,

Here is the end result ( I fear, I do not know of course) --- Those who claim to be Christians and act like secular materialistic lustful humanists may receive the harshest sentences. But those who stand in judgment calling us all hypocrites and consequently decide there is no good in our faith, I cannot think of one good reason why you should feel comfortable about your own destiny as well.

The left is to blame for the decline of Christianity in America. Only the left. Nothing else.

 

[Lilah]

jews define what is "secular jew"------a "secular jew"----for a jew adherent to ritual is any jew less adherent than is he. Try not to obsess on the concept. There have been secular jews since moses ascended mount Sinai. In fact----there have been secular jews since before jews were called jews. Esau----the fraternal twin brother of Jacob (later renamed 'Israel') was a secular Jew (actually a secular Hebrew) He entertained himself by hunting wild animals which is proscribed for adherent Jews (at that time called 'hebrew') ---therefore he was a secular jew (Hebrew). Feel free to ask questions

They are atheist or agnostic and see Judaism as a more a tradition and culture , not religion. Esau and Jacob were not even jews.

you----have no idea how another person "sees" anything------all you see is the cock you happen to
be sucking at any given moment. Esau and Jacob
are historical characters who did not speak English-----
you will have no opportunity to sell your stinking ass to either of them----they are both dead

If they existed.

right----if they existed----they are historical characters in jewish scriptural writings. Like Heinrich Schliemann, I believe that scriptural writings are based in real history. I believe that there was a person named Muhummad approximately 1400 years ago and a person named yeshua ben Yosef ---about 2000 years ago despite the absence of birth certificates. Like Heinrich Schliemann, I believe that there were really
people named Odysseus and Hector in TROY about 3000 years ago. I do not believe that an entity really named "penelope" posts on this messageboard. The entity which calls itself penelope is such an idiot---that it has decided that characters described in jewish scriptural
writings should not be called "jews"-----because "jew" is not the word that would have been used to describe them in the time that they are described as having lived. We do call Odysseus a "greek" ----but if he had ever lived---he would never have had heard that word

If this nation has become non-Christian, I blame Christians for that. Instead of following the example of Jesus Christ, they have turned aside to seek political power and control over other people. Their message is one of hate and intolerance, not love.

They are no different from the Pharisees.

Jesus was a Pharisee -----the Pharisees at the time of
Jesus had no power. Their influence was entirely in the field of scholarship. The people in power were the romans and the SADDUCEE shills to whom they conferred some power

Jesus was not a Pharisee. Why are you making that claim?

because I am not stupid. I never had a "religious" education------For an American jew like me that means
I never went to "Hebrew school" or any jewish summer
camp etc etc----my parents are secular type democrats of the typical jewish type. I grew up in a mostly Christian (catholic and protestant of the Lutheran/Methodist/Episcopalian type) town and did
get invited to "sunday school"-------and attended public
school-----town type. Ie---very white bread American
upbringing---except democrat parents in a republican
town. My one real problem was I was a precocious and
avid reader with not a whole lot to read-----so I read
anything around----including the bible----"old" and "new"
I learned all kinds of ODD things and can do fairly
well----guessing---whilst watching Jeapordy. I know
stuff about the situation in "JUDEA" at the time Jesus
lived as a matter of simple general knowledge As a teen I learned a tiny bit of Hebrew (in an entirely secular
public school setting) I took a look at some of the actual writings of about 2000 years ago----like Josephus
Flavius, Philo, Hillel etc. and later on I lived amongst
really hot shot jews-----ie chassidim and learned stuff
about their POV (generally as an outsider) I will give
you a little clue ----if you are a Christian-----you have
absolutely no idea who and what Pharisees were---
every word you heard about them in sunday school
and church was SHEER NONSENSE. What you heard about Pharisees was invented by the ROMANS
who hated them because they rebelled against roman
rule. Here is another clue----HILLEL was a popular
scholar at the time of Jesus (died either right before Jesus was born or right after) If you read the NT and
the writings of Hillel, you would know that Jesus---like
all the rest of the Pharisees were HIS FOLLOWERS.
Also----another fact that you never heard in sunday school-------the PHARISEES HATED THE MONEY
CHANGERS who set up in the temple courtyard---
WITH ALL THEIR HEARTS

Educate yourself.
"The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:2-9 RSV)

jews define what is "secular jew"------a "secular jew"----for a jew adherent to ritual is any jew less adherent than is he. Try not to obsess on the concept. There have been secular jews since moses ascended mount Sinai. In fact----there have been secular jews since before jews were called jews. Esau----the fraternal twin brother of Jacob (later renamed 'Israel') was a secular Jew (actually a secular Hebrew) He entertained himself by hunting wild animals which is proscribed for adherent Jews (at that time called 'hebrew') ---therefore he was a secular jew (Hebrew). Feel free to ask questions

They are atheist or agnostic and see Judaism as a more a tradition and culture , not religion. Esau and Jacob were not even jews.

you----have no idea how another person "sees" anything------all you see is the cock you happen to
be sucking at any given moment. Esau and Jacob
are historical characters who did not speak English-----
you will have no opportunity to sell your stinking ass to either of them----they are both dead

If they existed.

right----if they existed----they are historical characters in jewish scriptural writings. Like Heinrich Schliemann, I believe that scriptural writings are based in real history. I believe that there was a person named Muhummad approximately 1400 years ago and a person named yeshua ben Yosef ---about 2000 years ago despite the absence of birth certificates. Like Heinrich Schliemann, I believe that there were really
people named Odysseus and Hector in TROY about 3000 years ago. I do not believe that an entity really named "penelope" posts on this messageboard. The entity which calls itself penelope is such an idiot---that it has decided that characters described in jewish scriptural
writings should not be called "jews"-----because "jew" is not the word that would have been used to describe them in the time that they are described as having lived. We do call Odysseus a "greek" ----but if he had ever lived---he would never have had heard that word

Oh rest assured they are going to find lots of stuff now trying to prove King David and Solomon and his what 700 wifes existed, but that won't mean they did. Stories are made up and passed down, and while you may of had some kings they were nothing like Alexander, King Cyrus, Darius, or the Roman Emperors, Caesars, and even some of the Egyptian Kings. Most of it is fabricated. Since so much exaggeration and myth is in the Bible and the same stories with a different twist from other ancients , we really have no idea who these people were or how much is based on actual fact. Most of it is not, like the exodus, never happened.

If you believe in archaeological science, a group of British archaeologist believe they have found the mine's of the Queen of Sheba. Surely you've read the story of the Queen, which is immortalized in the holy book the Kebra Negast. She was one of Solomon's lovers, and they had a son, Menelik, who became King of Abyssinia.

Were there Jewish slaves in Egypt? For thousands of years Jews have been retelling the story of the exodus. You are stating authoritatively that it never happened, in which case there is no Judaism.

 

[irosie91]

because I am not stupid. I never had a "religious" education------For an American jew like me that means
I never went to "Hebrew school" or any jewish summer
camp etc etc----my parents are secular type democrats of the typical jewish type. I grew up in a mostly Christian (catholic and protestant of the Lutheran/Methodist/Episcopalian type) town and did
get invited to "sunday school"-------and attended public
school-----town type. Ie---very white bread American
upbringing---except democrat parents in a republican
town. My one real problem was I was a precocious and
avid reader with not a whole lot to read-----so I read
anything around----including the bible----"old" and "new"
I learned all kinds of ODD things and can do fairly
well----guessing---whilst watching Jeapordy. I know
stuff about the situation in "JUDEA" at the time Jesus
lived as a matter of simple general knowledge As a teen I learned a tiny bit of Hebrew (in an entirely secular
public school setting) I took a look at some of the actual writings of about 2000 years ago----like Josephus
Flavius, Philo, Hillel etc. and later on I lived amongst
really hot shot jews-----ie chassidim and learned stuff
about their POV (generally as an outsider) I will give
you a little clue ----if you are a Christian-----you have
absolutely no idea who and what Pharisees were---
every word you heard about them in sunday school
and church was SHEER NONSENSE. What you heard about Pharisees was invented by the ROMANS
who hated them because they rebelled against roman
rule. Here is another clue----HILLEL was a popular
scholar at the time of Jesus (died either right before Jesus was born or right after) If you read the NT and
the writings of Hillel, you would know that Jesus---like
all the rest of the Pharisees were HIS FOLLOWERS.
Also----another fact that you never heard in sunday school-------the PHARISEES HATED THE MONEY
CHANGERS who set up in the temple courtyard---
WITH ALL THEIR HEARTS

Educate yourself.
"The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:2-9 RSV)

No one knows who Matthew was. He has a Hebrew name-----but no history. No one knows who wrote the
book attributed to Matthew or even when it was written.
The NT was compiled under the editorship of CONSTANTINE-----he hated Pharisees and murdered
lots of them. He had nothing against the "money-changers" It is almost surprising that the episode of
overturning their tables ---'GOT IN'

Were you home schooled?
Matthew was one of the 12 disciples.

I went to USA white bread public school and to about a dozen sundays in "sunday school" I know all about the putative 12 disciples. Matthew wrote the first
"gospel" ----he is sometimes described as a tax collector but has no real history. Your belief that he was
somehow a companion to Jesus is based on faith.
IMHO it is not realistic. For whom do you imagine
he was collecting taxes? for "THE PHARISEES"??
for "THE MONEY CHANGERS"?? -----uhm ---oh I
know-----for the RABBIS WITH THE BIG GIANT
PHYLACTERIES ------try to remember what your sunday
school teacher told you

ما تقرأ باللغة العربية

What makes you think I was raised Christian? Your omniscient radar?
Since you appear to be passing yourself off as a biblical scholar, surely you've read a vast amount of books on the subject.
Have you perhaps read, The Scrolls and The New Testament?
If so, perhaps you can regale us with your interpretation.

I grew up amongst Christians---I tend to assume. I never read a book titled "the scrolls and the new testament"---

 

[Lilah]

Educate yourself.
"The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:2-9 RSV)

No one knows who Matthew was. He has a Hebrew name-----but no history. No one knows who wrote the
book attributed to Matthew or even when it was written.
The NT was compiled under the editorship of CONSTANTINE-----he hated Pharisees and murdered
lots of them. He had nothing against the "money-changers" It is almost surprising that the episode of
overturning their tables ---'GOT IN'

Were you home schooled?
Matthew was one of the 12 disciples.

I went to USA white bread public school and to about a dozen sundays in "sunday school" I know all about the putative 12 disciples. Matthew wrote the first
"gospel" ----he is sometimes described as a tax collector but has no real history. Your belief that he was
somehow a companion to Jesus is based on faith.
IMHO it is not realistic. For whom do you imagine
he was collecting taxes? for "THE PHARISEES"??
for "THE MONEY CHANGERS"?? -----uhm ---oh I
know-----for the RABBIS WITH THE BIG GIANT
PHYLACTERIES ------try to remember what your sunday
school teacher told you

ما تقرأ باللغة العربية

What makes you think I was raised Christian? Your omniscient radar?
Since you appear to be passing yourself off as a biblical scholar, surely you've read a vast amount of books on the subject.
Have you perhaps read, The Scrolls and The New Testament?
If so, perhaps you can regale us with your interpretation.

I grew up amongst Christians---I tend to assume. I never read a book titled "the scrolls and the new testament"---

"I tend to assume." Enough said.

 

[Penelope]

there is no evidence of any wanderings in the desert for 40 years of over 600,000 people. Oh of course Queen of Sheba, and her child with Solomon. . Really to be honest there is little I believe of it anymore. If anything Jews had the slaves.

 

[Lilah]

there is no evidence of any wanderings in the desert for 40 years of over 600,000 people. Oh of course Queen of Sheba, and her child with Solomon. . Really to be honest there is little I believe of it anymore. If anything Jews had the slaves.

The old adage is really true: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

[irosie91]

No one knows who Matthew was. He has a Hebrew name-----but no history. No one knows who wrote the
book attributed to Matthew or even when it was written.
The NT was compiled under the editorship of CONSTANTINE-----he hated Pharisees and murdered
lots of them. He had nothing against the "money-changers" It is almost surprising that the episode of
overturning their tables ---'GOT IN'

Were you home schooled?
Matthew was one of the 12 disciples.

I went to USA white bread public school and to about a dozen sundays in "sunday school" I know all about the putative 12 disciples. Matthew wrote the first
"gospel" ----he is sometimes described as a tax collector but has no real history. Your belief that he was
somehow a companion to Jesus is based on faith.
IMHO it is not realistic. For whom do you imagine
he was collecting taxes? for "THE PHARISEES"??
for "THE MONEY CHANGERS"?? -----uhm ---oh I
know-----for the RABBIS WITH THE BIG GIANT
PHYLACTERIES ------try to remember what your sunday
school teacher told you

ما تقرأ باللغة العربية

What makes you think I was raised Christian? Your omniscient radar?
Since you appear to be passing yourself off as a biblical scholar, surely you've read a vast amount of books on the subject.
Have you perhaps read, The Scrolls and The New Testament?
If so, perhaps you can regale us with your interpretation.

I grew up amongst Christians---I tend to assume. I never read a book titled "the scrolls and the new testament"---

"I tend to assume." Enough said.

It is really very little -----I consider it good for the sake of
conversation to provide a bit of personal background---
which is why I did------you did not ------assuming was all
I had. I did not claim to be a professor of religion---in
fact I did candidly state I read the bible when young because it was available. If I had a degree in theology I would have ADMITTED it. Anything I do read-----I read with discretion. People who do theology as a major course of study tend to 'go into it' with a set of beliefs already in place

 

[irosie91]

there is no evidence of any wanderings in the desert for 40 years of over 600,000 people. Oh of course Queen of Sheba, and her child with Solomon. . Really to be honest there is little I believe of it anymore. If anything Jews had the slaves.

I am intrigued, Penelope-----what is the evidence that
"jews had the slaves"????-------would that have been in
Egypt? As a child-----I used to spend summers at
my town's mudpond swimming hole. There is no evidenced that I was ever there----even the home movies dissolved

 

[sealybobo]

My departure from Pat Buchanan is with his views on Israel. But leaving that aside, I think he does well in describing the state of the union. Only a non-believer could disagree. Only a “true” Christian could understand. Not many of those left.

http://buchanan.org/blog/the-decline-of-christian-america-16069

The Decline of Christian America Tuesday - May 26, 2015 at 12:22 am By Patrick J. Buchanan

“This is a Christian nation,” said the Supreme Court in 1892.

“America was born a Christian nation,” echoed Woodrow Wilson. Harry Truman affirmed it: “This is a Christian nation.”

But in 2009, Barack Hussein Obama begged to differ: “We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation.”

Comes now a Pew Research Center survey that reveals the United States is de-Christianizing at an accelerated rate.

Whereas 86 percent of Americans in 1990 identified as Christians, by 2007, that was down to 78 percent. Today only 7 in 10 say they are Christians. But the percentage of those describing themselves as atheists, agnostics or nonbelievers has risen to 23. That exceeds the Catholic population and is only slightly below evangelicals.

Those in the mainline Protestant churches — Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians — have plummeted from 50 percent of the U.S. population in 1958 to 14 percent today. By accommodating the social revolution of the 1960s to stay relevant, mainline churches appear to have made themselves irrelevant to America’s young.

The decline in Christian identity is greatest among the young. While 85 percent of Americans born before 1945 still call themselves Christians, only 57 percent of those born after 1980 do.

If we want to see our future, we should probably look to Europe, where Catholic Ireland just voted in a landslide to legalize same-sex marriage and where cathedrals and churches are being turned into tourist attractions and museums and even bars and restaurants.

What are the causes of a de-Christianized America?

High among them is the Supreme Court, which, since the Earl Warren era began, purged Christianity from all public schools and the public square — and has been met with a puzzling lack of resistance from Middle America to the secularist revolution being imposed upon it.

Second, an anti-Christian elite captured the cultural heights — the arts, elite universities, popular culture, the media — and began, through movies, books and magazines, an assault on Christian beliefs and morality.

Third was the social revolution of the 1960s, which began with the arrival of the baby boomers on campus in 1964. Five years on, Woodstock Nation was wallowing in the mud, listening to Country Joe & the Fish.

The counterculture of the ’60s would be used as a foil to build 49-state landslides for Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, but then the ’60s views and values were embraced by the elites and came to dominate the culture in the time of Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Given his baggage, “Slick Willy” of Yoknapatawpha County would have been a comic figure in the 1950s. Today he is the Democratic Party’s beau ideal of a statesman.

Many churches came out to meet the cultural revolution halfway. The results were irrelevance and scandal — too many Elmer Gantrys in televangelist pulpits and too many predators in priestly cassocks.

What are the consequences of a de-Christianized America and West? Si monumentum requiris, circumspice. (If you would seek its monuments, look around you.)

Half of marriages end in divorce. Fewer children are being born, and of these, over 40 percent are out of wedlock. Record drug use rates and dropout rates and soaring crime rates that have declined only because we have an incarceration rate that rivals South Africa’s.

Despite astonishing advances in medicine, we have far more and far more varied and deadly STDs.

As Christianity dies, individualism, materialism and hedonism replace it. “Selfies” could be the name for the generation for whom Easter Sunday long ago took a back seat to Super Bowl Sunday. More than a million abortions a year, assisted suicide and euthanasia are seen as the milestones of social progress in the new America.

“Panem et circenses,” bread and circuses, were what the late Roman Empire was all about. With us, it is sex, drugs and rock, with variations on all three.

Historically, as the faith dies, the culture and civilization to which it gave birth die, and then the people die. And a new tribe with its own gods comes to occupy the emptying land.

On the old and new continents, it is the native-born of European ancestry who are de-Christianizing, aging and dying. And the nations they created are the ones depopulating.

To occupy Rome, the barbarians came from the east and north. To occupy the West, they are coming from the south. And like the Romans of the fourth century, we seem paralyzed and powerless to stop them.

Christianity was the founding faith of the West. That faith and the moral code and culture it produced once united this disparate and diverse nation and civilization.

As Christianity fades away and the moral code and culture it generated recede into irrelevance, what will hold us together?

Economically, we are dependent on foreigners for the necessities of our national life. Our politics are poisonous. Our racial divisions, once ameliorated by shared belief in the same God and Bible, are rawer than they were in the 1950s.

As for equality, diversity and global democracy, who will march and die for that?

Historian Arnold Toynbee said it well: “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.”

Bad things dont have to replace religion. Empathy science fairness.

Funny christianity never saw bullying as a problem. But today secular schools know to teach about it and stop it.

Religion is irrelivent.

 

[Penelope]

there is no evidence of any wanderings in the desert for 40 years of over 600,000 people. Oh of course Queen of Sheba, and her child with Solomon. . Really to be honest there is little I believe of it anymore. If anything Jews had the slaves.

The old adage is really true: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Sure you can lead one to water, as long as all roads do not lead to dry areas.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0016_0_16220.html

http://www.ethiopiantreasures.co.uk/pages/aksum.htm

SHEBA QUEEN OF - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[Penelope]

there is no evidence of any wanderings in the desert for 40 years of over 600,000 people. Oh of course Queen of Sheba, and her child with Solomon. . Really to be honest there is little I believe of it anymore. If anything Jews had the slaves.

I am intrigued, Penelope-----what is the evidence that
"jews had the slaves"????-------would that have been in
Egypt? As a child-----I used to spend summers at
my town's mudpond swimming hole. There is no evidenced that I was ever there----even the home movies dissolved

What evidence is that, you mean lack of evidence. Right off the batt, Sara who had no children had a handmaiden, which she gave to her husband for an incubator. Also the numerous mentions of how to treat a slave in Deut. Lets not forget with the exile several thousand slaves returned form Babylon. Solomon is the Bible also used "forced labor " to build the " temple of God">

 

[Penelope]

Here lets learn a bit more about Moses.

MOSES - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[irosie91]

there is no evidence of any wanderings in the desert for 40 years of over 600,000 people. Oh of course Queen of Sheba, and her child with Solomon. . Really to be honest there is little I believe of it anymore. If anything Jews had the slaves.

I am intrigued, Penelope-----what is the evidence that
"jews had the slaves"????-------would that have been in
Egypt? As a child-----I used to spend summers at
my town's mudpond swimming hole. There is no evidenced that I was ever there----even the home movies dissolved

What evidence is that, you mean lack of evidence. Right off the batt, Sara who had no children had a handmaiden, which she gave to her husband for an incubator. Also the numerous mentions of how to treat a slave in Deut. Lets not forget with the exile several thousand slaves returned form Babylon. Solomon is the Bible also used "forced labor " to build the " temple of God">

sara was not a jew-----what was a 'handmaiden' in those days under Babylonian law-------sara was from
Babylon. There is nothing to indicate that Solomon
used "slave labor" -------but all this discussion is moot----YOU CLAIMED that DA JOOOOOS had SLAVES in
EGYPT----they were not slaves-----they OWNED SLAVES -----but you provided nothing to support your
idiotic fart

 

[irosie91]

Penelope imagines that WIKKI is going to award her a
Ph-d

 

[Penelope]

Penelope imagines that WIKKI is going to award her a
Ph-d

MOSES - JewishEncyclopedia.com

(you don't even believe your jewish sources)

 

[irosie91]

Penelope imagines that WIKKI is going to award her a
Ph-d

MOSES - JewishEncyclopedia.com

(you don't even believe your jewish sources)

I didn't read it------did they make a point that interests you?