The Civil War brewing among Democrats

[mudwhistle]

this will only happen to ins companies if they let it. they don't have to write policies in states where they can't get rates to an affordable level. they already did this in Massachusetts. also, it would be hard to convince me that a company will go out of business when every person in the country is required to use their service or face the IRS and possible jail time.

Or pay a fine....

Paying the fine is cheaper then buying insurance.

you think enough people will pay the fine to put insurance companies out of business?

That's not how it will happen.

Insurance companies are only required to keep enough liquid assets to pay all their claims up to a specific amount. Obama will require they keep enough cash to pay 80% which is impossible.

Soon all of their cash will be tied up waiting for a claim to come in instead of paying for everything else that companies need to stay in business. Add to that the removal of pre-existing conditions.....

Most insurance adjusters feel they'll be out of business in around 2 years.

 

[Oddball]

I think centrist is a relative term.

In much of the Euro group, their idea of a centrist would be to the left of ours. In our Republican-Democrat paradigm, where both parties of any consequence are to the left of old-school conservatism--a philosophy that gets more way more lip service than action--a Democrat's centrist creds are gaged by its similarity to Republican policies, and vice-versa.

I think Obama is center left, because most of the policies that have already been mentioned in this thread are policies that many Republicans support or at the very least tolerate; but he does lean left, just not as far as the hysteria suggests.

You want to see far left? Go to Sweden!

What...You think that a majority of the DNC wouldn't want America to be like Sweden?

If Obubblehead is "center-left", I'm Ayn Rand.

 

[Sheldon]

I think centrist is a relative term.

In much of the Euro group, their idea of a centrist would be to the left of ours. In our Republican-Democrat paradigm, where both parties of any consequence are to the left of old-school conservatism--a philosophy that gets more way more lip service than action--a Democrat's centrist creds are gaged by its similarity to Republican policies, and vice-versa.

I think Obama is center left, because most of the policies that have already been mentioned in this thread are policies that many Republicans support or at the very least tolerate; but he does lean left, just not as far as the hysteria suggests.

You want to see far left? Go to Sweden!

What...You think that a majority of the DNC wouldn't want America to be like Sweden?
If Obubblhead is "center-left" I'm Ayn Rand.

Then I guess this is as good a time as any to tell you that I did enjoy The Fountainhead, but your writing is a little too dry for me, and Atlas Shrugged is about two-hundred pages too long.

And who, exactly, is John Galt?

 

[oreo]

Democrats' Civil War: The Fight Within the Party - The Daily Beast

Yes, the GOP is certainly seeing grand divides among its ranks, with Tea Party supporters pulling in different directions, but now the liberal wing of the Democrats are beginning to show intolerance for the centrist direction of this administration....????? HUH?

obama is quite centrist. the left wanted single payer, he settled for a muddled private/public insurance deal. the left wanted gitmo closed, patrito act repealed, and iraq war ended pronto. none of that happened. left wanted prosecution of bush/cheney. that didn't even come close to happening. there are tons more examples, but Obama is quite centrist, he just looks far left after having GW around for 8 years.

Ha. Ha.--nice try--- There is no doubt in my mind that when Obama stated--"he was going to re-build this nation from ground up"--that he meant socialism. He is a socialist--not a centrist President like Bill Clinton was.

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
5. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

Adrian Rogers, 1931

 

[blu]

Democrats' Civil War: The Fight Within the Party - The Daily Beast

Yes, the GOP is certainly seeing grand divides among its ranks, with Tea Party supporters pulling in different directions, but now the liberal wing of the Democrats are beginning to show intolerance for the centrist direction of this administration....????? HUH?

obama is quite centrist. the left wanted single payer, he settled for a muddled private/public insurance deal. the left wanted gitmo closed, patrito act repealed, and iraq war ended pronto. none of that happened. left wanted prosecution of bush/cheney. that didn't even come close to happening. there are tons more examples, but Obama is quite centrist, he just looks far left after having GW around for 8 years.

Ha. Ha.--nice try--- There is no doubt in my mind that when Obama stated--"he was going to re-build this nation from ground up"--that he meant socialism. He is a socialist--not a centrist President like Bill Clinton was.

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
5. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

Adrian Rogers, 1931

this thread is about what he has enacted, now his thoughts, what "socialist" policies has he enacted?

 

[oreo]

obama is quite centrist. the left wanted single payer, he settled for a muddled private/public insurance deal. the left wanted gitmo closed, patrito act repealed, and iraq war ended pronto. none of that happened. left wanted prosecution of bush/cheney. that didn't even come close to happening. there are tons more examples, but Obama is quite centrist, he just looks far left after having GW around for 8 years.

Ha. Ha.--nice try--- There is no doubt in my mind that when Obama stated--"he was going to re-build this nation from ground up"--that he meant socialism. He is a socialist--not a centrist President like Bill Clinton was.

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
5. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

Adrian Rogers, 1931

this thread is about what he has enacted, now his thoughts, what "socialist" policies has he enacted?

The auto industry "ownership" into it--banks--healthcare--15K new IRS agents--157 new government agencies to make certain you pay for healthcare--meaning a federal government take over of health care in this country. Now he is talking about cap and tax--another take-over of energy in this country. Have you been asleep for the last 18 months?--

"The problem with socialism is that government eventually runs out of other people's money to spend"--Margaret Thatcher

 

[blu]

The auto industry "ownership" into it--banks--healthcare--

so its okay when bush took over the auto companies but its socliamsim when obama does it?

15K new IRS agents--157 new government agencies to make certain you pay for healthcare

talking point fail. 80% of that 15-16k new irs agent bunch is to help manage tax cuts and rebates that poor people will be getting to help pay for the mandated healthcare

157 new government agencies to make certain you pay for healthcare

another talking point fail since this "fact" also was made up by the people who said the 16k new employees would be to hunt health care tax evaders down

Now he is talking about cap and tax

if that happens, then yes he has taken over an industry

 

[oreo]

The auto industry "ownership" into it--banks--healthcare--

so its okay when bush took over the auto companies but its socliamsim when obama does it?

15K new IRS agents--157 new government agencies to make certain you pay for healthcare

talking point fail. 80% of that 15-16k new irs agent bunch is to help manage tax cuts and rebates that poor people will be getting to help pay for the mandated healthcare

157 new government agencies to make certain you pay for healthcare

another talking point fail since this "fact" also was made up by the people who said the 16k new employees would be to hunt health care tax evaders down

Now he is talking about cap and tax

if that happens, then yes he has taken over an industry

Link to Bush "taking over the Auto industry"--

So "only" 80% of the 15K new IRS agents are only there to help the poor--- Ever been audited? The poor pay no taxes--so no need for any IRS agent to make a visit. You know it's called the Internal REVENUE service for a reason. Their existence is to INSURE that people are paying taxes.

 

[blu]

The auto industry "ownership" into it--banks--healthcare--

so its okay when bush took over the auto companies but its socliamsim when obama does it?



talking point fail. 80% of that 15-16k new irs agent bunch is to help manage tax cuts and rebates that poor people will be getting to help pay for the mandated healthcare




another talking point fail since this "fact" also was made up by the people who said the 16k new employees would be to hunt health care tax evaders down

Now he is talking about cap and tax

if that happens, then yes he has taken over an industry

Link to Bush "taking over the Auto industry"--

So "only" 80% of the 15K new IRS agents are only there to help the poor--- Ever been audited? The poor pay no taxes--so no need for any IRS agent to make a visit. You know it's called the Internal REVENUE service for a reason. Their existence is to INSURE that people are paying taxes.

you aren't even worth arguing with.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, Obama has made concessions to the right. Dropping the public option from healthcare

Failing to get enough votes from DEMOCRATS is hardly a concession.

keeping Gitmo open, increasing drone attacks, increasing the troops in Afghanistan

As though lying and war mongering are exclusive traits of the right.

[quote=rightwinger;2407136]agreeing to more offshore drilling

With full knowledge that it is states which stand in the way of most offshore drilling, and when there's plenty of oil to be found ONshore.

Like I said...This "centrist" crap is comedy gold coin! [/QUOTE]

Now if you really know where this oil is to be found, then you stand to make a fortune.

 

[oreo]

so its okay when bush took over the auto companies but its socliamsim when obama does it?



talking point fail. 80% of that 15-16k new irs agent bunch is to help manage tax cuts and rebates that poor people will be getting to help pay for the mandated healthcare




another talking point fail since this "fact" also was made up by the people who said the 16k new employees would be to hunt health care tax evaders down



if that happens, then yes he has taken over an industry

Link to Bush "taking over the Auto industry"--

So "only" 80% of the 15K new IRS agents are only there to help the poor--- Ever been audited? The poor pay no taxes--so no need for any IRS agent to make a visit. You know it's called the Internal REVENUE service for a reason. Their existence is to INSURE that people are paying taxes.

you aren't even worth arguing with.

I see you've got your panties all tied up in a wad over the claim you made that Bush took over the auto industry?--- He didn't.

But while we're on this topic--of socialism---you admit that cap and tax would be a take over of energy in this country--while at the same time you're defending Barack Obama for pushing this cap and tax agenda. He does it every single time he talks about energy in this country--and he'll probably bring it up again in this Tuesday night news conference about the oil spill.

You're the one that is not worth talking to--until you become alot more "politically" educated as to what has been going on--and exactly what this President's intentions and policies are.

"When government is big enough to give you everything you want, it will also be big enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oreo does not even know what socialism is or how it is defined.

What I can tell him is this: he does not have a right to his own reality, to his own definitions.

He is simply a silly opinionist with even sillier opinions.

 

[Oddball]

Oh, brother...Now we get back to the old "how to define socialism" straw dog.

Well, here's one definition that fits Boyking and the democratics --and a pretty fair chunk of republicans for that matter-- to a tee:

FABIAN SOCIALISM

 

[California Girl]

"Centrist" administration.....**chortle**

Does the hilarity ever end with these stooges?

do you know the plans the left really had? what obama talked about during his campaign. the laws made and implemented are quite center

That wasn't him moving to the center.... that was the only way he could pass the crap. It's not concessions to the 'right', it's concessions to the center. Idiot. Obama is far left - he just can't pass his real agenda because his own damned party aren't all far left.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh, brother...Now we get back to the old "how to define socialism" straw dog.

Well, here's one definition that fits Boyking and the democratics --and a pretty fair chunk of republicans for that matter-- to a tee: <snip>

You argument is made of straw, and until you grow up and deal with reality instead of your own delusion your remarks will continue to be laughable.

 

[blu]

"Centrist" administration.....**chortle**

Does the hilarity ever end with these stooges?

do you know the plans the left really had? what obama talked about during his campaign. the laws made and implemented are quite center

That wasn't him moving to the center.... that was the only way he could pass the crap. It's not concessions to the 'right', it's concessions to the center. Idiot. Obama is far left - he just can't pass his real agenda because his own damned party aren't all far left.

yep and this thread was meant to be about what he passed so far into law, which as you admitted in your post is not far left

 

[Dr.House]

do you know the plans the left really had? what obama talked about during his campaign. the laws made and implemented are quite center

That wasn't him moving to the center.... that was the only way he could pass the crap. It's not concessions to the 'right', it's concessions to the center. Idiot. Obama is far left - he just can't pass his real agenda because his own damned party aren't all far left.

yep and this thread was meant to be about what he passed so far into law, which as you admitted in your post is not far left

No, the argument was whether Barry Zero is a centrist or leftist...

Some claimed, foolishly, that he is a centrist...

Other more intelligent posters provided evidence that he is, in fact, a leftist...

 

[beowolfe]

That wasn't him moving to the center.... that was the only way he could pass the crap. It's not concessions to the 'right', it's concessions to the center. Idiot. Obama is far left - he just can't pass his real agenda because his own damned party aren't all far left.

yep and this thread was meant to be about what he passed so far into law, which as you admitted in your post is not far left

No, the argument was whether Barry Zero is a centrist or leftist...

Some claimed, foolishly, that he is a centrist...

Other more intelligent posters provided evidence that he is, in fact, a leftist...

So, do you guage a politician's position by what he/she says during a primary or the actual laws they seek to enact. I'd say the latter, but hey, that's just me. Also, you have zero facts to back your ascertion that he is a leftist. Could it be that you're so far right that the center looks like the left to you?

 

[Dr.House]

yep and this thread was meant to be about what he passed so far into law, which as you admitted in your post is not far left

No, the argument was whether Barry Zero is a centrist or leftist...

Some claimed, foolishly, that he is a centrist...

Other more intelligent posters provided evidence that he is, in fact, a leftist...

So, do you guage a politician's position by what he/she says during a primary or the actual laws they seek to enact. I'd say the latter, but hey, that's just me. Also, you have zero facts to back your ascertion that he is a leftist. Could it be that you're so far right that the center looks like the left to you?

Barry has a lot going for him to place him firmly on the left:

* his past voting record (when not voting "present")
* his words (yes, words have meaning)
* what he wanted to pass in his bills, despite the fact that he couldn't convince his super-majority party to agree

 

[JimH52]

The left is disappointed because, of all the things Obama is, he is mostly a realist. He knows how far he can push his policies, and unfortunately, he has not pushed far enough to the left for many of those extremist. In other words:

He has made both the far right and far left angry, which is a good thing, the way I see it.