The Catholic doctrine of purgatory

[turzovka]

There is no such thing as pergatory. I did an indepth study of the Catholic saints many years ago. Although you have genuine miracles such as Helena Kowalska ( Faustina - the Apostle of Mercy ) whose book The Diary is now out of print but she prophesied WWII and the future protection God would afford her convent - keep in mind she was highly unpopular with her peers - same goes for Theresa of Liseaux who discipled the priest Maurice who wanted to be a martyr for christ and died from a tse fly bite ( does God have a sense of humor or what? ) because she led a sinless life or Theresa of Avila who came dangerously close to being accused of being a heretic as did John of the Cross who wrote Dark night of the Soul and was her friend - Guyon and Fenelon - both fell into danger for real christianity which spit out the lie of pergatory - paying 500 dollar indulgences to the pope to get their loved ones out of hell - what blasphemy! As if God could be paid off with a filthy lucre ransom to get a soul out of hell and he would want the RCC to be paid off???? HA! HA! YOU MUST BE KIDDING ME! I think someone must have taken that Italian godfather thing a step too far here, don't you????

Listen lady, you need to read your bible. Pergatory isn't in there. Were there true Catholic christians in the early church?
Yes, there were and many of them were burned at the stake or thrown in a dungeon so if you are looking for a historical comparison to where Islam is today? Look no further than the Roman Catholic Church.

The inquisition - the murder of Jews - forced conversions on Jews NONE OF IT IN THE BIBLE LADY - NOT A WORD OF IT - the Vatican went off on their own thing and once again? You guys are missing it. Your new pope just announced that the god of Islam is the God of the bible! WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. I suppose if your pope refuses to read the bible I cannot expect that you would bother either. Theresa of Avila had a vision of hell - John Bunyan had his own vision of hell - many of the mystics had visions of hell and then you have other saints who the RCC used to bolster their claim to the false doctrine of Pergatory which was designed to keep them in control over you. That is why Martin Luther confronted the pope - the common folks didn't have access to a bible and had no idea of the lies and heresy they were being taught by the RCC. ( had Luther not been in friendship to a King the pope would have executed him for it ) You cannot buy your way out of hell. It isn't happening so believe John 3:16 and be saved. - Jeremiah

Note: Everyone in purgatory IS saved. Praise God.

I see you are trying to argue purgatory does not exist because some clergy abused the doctrine of indulgences by offering them via money. What does any of that have to do with the existence of purgatory? Nothing.

Which early Christians were burned at the stake? And by who? By the Catholic Church? It was the Catholics who were martyred by the Romans. The early Church tortured or killed no one.

The Inquisition --- I think you have a serious misunderstanding here, but I am not interested in typing thousands of words to justify my point. But no one, not Jews or any others outside the Church. were forced to convert to Catholicism, nor were they even subject to the Inquisition. But do not let that stop you from impugning the Church.

The Jews that were subject to the Inquisition were the “conversos” who claimed to have converted to Catholicism for many compelling reasons, including not being expelled from the country they were inhabiting.

Our pope also said that atheists can surely be saved if they do enough good in their lives and do not violate a well formed conscious. Do you agree? Yes or No? Or are you one of those protestants who think they are the first Christians, even though it took God 1500 years after Christ to get this thing going correctly?

You really do not know your own history I see. Martin Luther did not challenge the Catholic Church because he denied the existence of purgatory. Absolutely and totally false. But do not let that stop you from shouting it from the mountain top.

Nor is anyone saying you can buy your way out of hell, except you making that false charge.

There is all kinds of Scripture which speak of purgatory. You apparently have decided it is impossible so you twist and turn every mean to justify your desired end. Sorry, not impressed.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The New Catholic Doctrine question. So when did the Pope Order God Almighty in Heaven to change the babies going to Limbo with babies going to heaven? The bible always taught that when a baby died it went to heaven. It was the Catholic church that invented Limbo ( as well as Pergatory ) so when did the Pope command God to start putting the babies back in heaven again? I missed that one. I'm sure God will be amused to hear about this one. Go ahead. Tell us all about it! ha! ha! ha!

This thread is a riot! - Jeri

 

[turzovka]

"You shoud read the last chapter of the bible which warns people such as you not to add or take away from Gods words. I'd listen if I were you."

Oh, you mean like what Luther and company did? They removed six books from the Bible.

It matters not to me, they still had enough Scripture left where they could have gotten it right.

As to all your other charges, I answered you further below in this thread. I can see you are militant about your charges against the Catholic Church, and yet, your claims are shallow or false or very juvenile (in my opinion). Do not see the point in elaborating over all of them. Yes, we pray to statues. Yes, Mary had all kinds of kids. Yes, Luther denied the existence of purgartory. Yes, Yes, Yes, you got it all right.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

There is no such thing as pergatory. I did an indepth study of the Catholic saints many years ago. Although you have genuine miracles such as Helena Kowalska ( Faustina - the Apostle of Mercy ) whose book The Diary is now out of print but she prophesied WWII and the future protection God would afford her convent - keep in mind she was highly unpopular with her peers - same goes for Theresa of Liseaux who discipled the priest Maurice who wanted to be a martyr for christ and died from a tse fly bite ( does God have a sense of humor or what? ) because she led a sinless life or Theresa of Avila who came dangerously close to being accused of being a heretic as did John of the Cross who wrote Dark night of the Soul and was her friend - Guyon and Fenelon - both fell into danger for real christianity which spit out the lie of pergatory - paying 500 dollar indulgences to the pope to get their loved ones out of hell - what blasphemy! As if God could be paid off with a filthy lucre ransom to get a soul out of hell and he would want the RCC to be paid off???? HA! HA! YOU MUST BE KIDDING ME! I think someone must have taken that Italian godfather thing a step too far here, don't you????

Listen lady, you need to read your bible. Pergatory isn't in there. Were there true Catholic christians in the early church?
Yes, there were and many of them were burned at the stake or thrown in a dungeon so if you are looking for a historical comparison to where Islam is today? Look no further than the Roman Catholic Church.

The inquisition - the murder of Jews - forced conversions on Jews NONE OF IT IN THE BIBLE LADY - NOT A WORD OF IT - the Vatican went off on their own thing and once again? You guys are missing it. Your new pope just announced that the god of Islam is the God of the bible! WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. I suppose if your pope refuses to read the bible I cannot expect that you would bother either. Theresa of Avila had a vision of hell - John Bunyan had his own vision of hell - many of the mystics had visions of hell and then you have other saints who the RCC used to bolster their claim to the false doctrine of Pergatory which was designed to keep them in control over you. That is why Martin Luther confronted the pope - the common folks didn't have access to a bible and had no idea of the lies and heresy they were being taught by the RCC. ( had Luther not been in friendship to a King the pope would have executed him for it ) You cannot buy your way out of hell. It isn't happening so believe John 3:16 and be saved. - Jeremiah

Note: Everyone in purgatory IS saved. Praise God.
Jeri replies:
No such thing as purgatory. Give me chapter and verse from the bible please.

I see you are trying to argue purgatory does not exist because some clergy abused the doctrine of indulgences by offering them via money. What does any of that have to do with the existence of purgatory? Nothing.

Some clergy?? ROFL!! Try the Pope! Ha! Ha! Ha! You are a hoot, Lady! This is too funny... Yes the Pope said that anyone who wanted to get a relative out of pergatory ( hell ) could buy their way out for 500 dollars. So the rich could buy their families way out of hell but the poor people couldn't. You have to love the roman catholic church. What a set up, eh? To hear you guys tell it the Pope is a higher authority than God Almighty! What a something!

Which early Christians were burned at the stake? And by who? By the Catholic Church? It was the Catholics who were martyred by the Romans. The early Church tortured or killed no one.
Jeri reply:
How many do you want? Start with Savonarolla. Who burned him at the stake. How about Jan Hus - ( John Huss ) why did the RCC murder him? You really want to go there? I'll take you down a memory lane you'll wish you never got on!

The Inquisition --- I think you have a serious misunderstanding here, but I am not interested in typing thousands of words to justify my point.
Jeri reply: You opened the door and now you don't want to discuss it? Why not?

But no one, not Jews or any others outside the Church. were forced to convert to Catholicism, nor were they even subject to the Inquisition. But do not let that stop you from impugning the Church.

Jeri: You are a liar like your father the devil. Jews were hunted down by the RCC -forced conversions was only part of it - who are you trying to kid?



The Jews that were subject to the Inquisition were the “conversos” who claimed to have converted to Catholicism for many compelling reasons, including not being expelled from the country they were inhabiting.

Jeri: Or being imprisoned, murdered, the rapes by clergymen in the RCC ... oh yeah - a very dirty history you've got going there....... a church is known by its fruits though. Jesus said so. Which is why the fruit of the RCC is rotten to the core.

Our pope also said that atheists can surely be saved if they do enough good in their lives and do not violate a well formed conscious. Do you agree? Yes or No?


Jeri:
Absolutely not!

That is a works based salvation and is not based on the work of the Cross. It will avail them nothing. According to your pope Jesus didn't need to die on the cross for our sins and God was a fool for sending him there. What a lie.

Your church is one Jesus referred to when saying you'll cross land and sea to make converts that are twice the sons of hell you are. That is what I have to say about your pope and his alternate plan of salvation. May it burn in hell with him.

Or are you one of those protestants who think they are the first Christians, even though it took God 1500 years after Christ to get this thing going correctly?

Jeri: I believe in the bible which proves you to be a bold faced liar. The bible says, Let the Word of God be true and every man ( who disagrees with it ) be found a liar. That is what we are doing here. Exposing you as a liar by using the Truth of the Word of God vs the doctrines of men and devils.



You really do not know your own history I see. Martin Luther did not challenge the Catholic Church because he denied the existence of purgatory. Absolutely and totally false. But do not let that stop you from shouting it from the mountain top.

Jeri: I never said Martin Luthers challenge was based on the denial of pergatory ( although he knew the bible taught only heaven and hell and no such doctrine of pergatory, limbo or indulgences were taught ) but rather on the matter of the Pope playing God! Teaching false doctrines such as paying the pope off to get your dead relatives out of hell ( he calls pergatory ) Once you are in hell it is too late, Lady. You cannot get out. God isn't taking orders from the Pope to allow his special followers a pardon from hell! That is utterly ridiculous. The Vatican had the bible but the common man did not. When Martin Luther nailed his thesis to the church door he had no idea that the rebirth of true christianity was about to take place. Some called themselves Lutherans after him. He said do not call yourself Lutherans call yourselves Christians after Christ who died for you! Did the people listen? Nah! Some people started calling themselves Baptists after John the Baptist and so on down the line and that is how the entire thing began. I know my church history and unlike you I'm not sweeping the true history of the RCC under the rug as you are attempting to do here.

Nor is anyone saying you can buy your way out of hell, except you making that false charge.
Jeri: Again you are not being truthful. The Pope told the people that if they paid a ransom ( indulgences ) they could get their dead relatives out of hell. What else would you call it? Stop lying!!!!

There is all kinds of Scripture which speak of purgatory.
Jeri: If that is true than give me chapter and verse and we will go line upon line and precept upon precept. I'm ready. Let's do it.

You apparently have decided it is impossible so you twist and turn every mean to justify your desired end.
Jeri: I am not the one on this message board teaching something that cannot be found in the Bible. You are. So show us the Chapter and verses specifically that say pergatory and Limbo and indulgences and praying to Mary and statues, and while you are at it show me the backdoor plan the pope has that over rules Jesus words to Nicodemus which said, YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. What your pope has done is just told the world that Jesus Christ is a Liar and that the Bible is not true.

Chapter and verse, Lady. I'm waiting. - Jeri

Sorry, not impressed.

It isn't a matter of being impressed. I believe your being impressed with an alterative plan of salvation is enough evidence to tell me that what impresses you is not very impressive.

-Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Note: Everyone in purgatory IS saved. Praise God.
Jeri replies:
No such thing as purgatory. Give me chapter and verse from the bible please.

I see you are trying to argue purgatory does not exist because some clergy abused the doctrine of indulgences by offering them via money. What does any of that have to do with the existence of purgatory? Nothing.

Some clergy?? ROFL!! Try the Pope! Ha! Ha! Ha! You are a hoot, Lady! This is too funny... Yes the Pope said that anyone who wanted to get a relative out of pergatory ( hell ) could buy their way out for 500 dollars. So the rich could buy their families way out of hell but the poor people couldn't. You have to love the roman catholic church. What a set up, eh? To hear you guys tell it the Pope is a higher authority than God Almighty! What a something!

Which early Christians were burned at the stake? And by who? By the Catholic Church? It was the Catholics who were martyred by the Romans. The early Church tortured or killed no one.
Jeri reply:
How many do you want? Start with Savonarolla. Who burned him at the stake. How about Jan Hus - ( John Huss ) why did the RCC murder him? You really want to go there? I'll take you down a memory lane you'll wish you never got on!

The Inquisition --- I think you have a serious misunderstanding here, but I am not interested in typing thousands of words to justify my point.
Jeri reply: You opened the door and now you don't want to discuss it? Why not?

But no one, not Jews or any others outside the Church. were forced to convert to Catholicism, nor were they even subject to the Inquisition. But do not let that stop you from impugning the Church.

Jeri: You are a liar like your father the devil. Jews were hunted down by the RCC -forced conversions was only part of it - who are you trying to kid?



The Jews that were subject to the Inquisition were the “conversos” who claimed to have converted to Catholicism for many compelling reasons, including not being expelled from the country they were inhabiting.

Jeri: Or being imprisoned, murdered, the rapes by clergymen in the RCC ... oh yeah - a very dirty history you've got going there....... a church is known by its fruits though. Jesus said so. Which is why the fruit of the RCC is rotten to the core.

Our pope also said that atheists can surely be saved if they do enough good in their lives and do not violate a well formed conscious. Do you agree? Yes or No?


Jeri:
Absolutely not!

That is a works based salvation and is not based on the work of the Cross. It will avail them nothing. According to your pope Jesus didn't need to die on the cross for our sins and God was a fool for sending him there. What a lie.

Your church is one Jesus referred to when saying you'll cross land and sea to make converts that are twice the sons of hell you are. That is what I have to say about your pope and his alternate plan of salvation. May it burn in hell with him.

Or are you one of those protestants who think they are the first Christians, even though it took God 1500 years after Christ to get this thing going correctly?

Jeri: I believe in the bible which proves you to be a bold faced liar. The bible says, Let the Word of God be true and every man ( who disagrees with it ) be found a liar. That is what we are doing here. Exposing you as a liar by using the Truth of the Word of God vs the doctrines of men and devils.



You really do not know your own history I see. Martin Luther did not challenge the Catholic Church because he denied the existence of purgatory. Absolutely and totally false. But do not let that stop you from shouting it from the mountain top.

Jeri: I never said Martin Luthers challenge was based on the denial of pergatory ( although he knew the bible taught only heaven and hell and no such doctrine of pergatory, limbo or indulgences were taught ) but rather on the matter of the Pope playing God! Teaching false doctrines such as paying the pope off to get your dead relatives out of hell ( he calls pergatory ) Once you are in hell it is too late, Lady. You cannot get out. God isn't taking orders from the Pope to allow his special followers a pardon from hell! That is utterly ridiculous. The Vatican had the bible but the common man did not. When Martin Luther nailed his thesis to the church door he had no idea that the rebirth of true christianity was about to take place. Some called themselves Lutherans after him. He said do not call yourself Lutherans call yourselves Christians after Christ who died for you! Did the people listen? Nah! Some people started calling themselves Baptists after John the Baptist and so on down the line and that is how the entire thing began. I know my church history and unlike you I'm not sweeping the true history of the RCC under the rug as you are attempting to do here.

Nor is anyone saying you can buy your way out of hell, except you making that false charge.
Jeri: Again you are not being truthful. The Pope told the people that if they paid a ransom ( indulgences ) they could get their dead relatives out of hell. What else would you call it? Stop lying!!!!

There is all kinds of Scripture which speak of purgatory.
Jeri: If that is true than give me chapter and verse and we will go line upon line and precept upon precept. I'm ready. Let's do it.

You apparently have decided it is impossible so you twist and turn every mean to justify your desired end.
Jeri: I am not the one on this message board teaching something that cannot be found in the Bible. You are. So show us the Chapter and verses specifically that say pergatory and Limbo and indulgences and praying to Mary and statues, and while you are at it show me the backdoor plan the pope has that over rules Jesus words to Nicodemus which said, YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. What your pope has done is just told the world that Jesus Christ is a Liar and that the Bible is not true.

Chapter and verse, Lady. I'm waiting. - Jeri

Sorry, not impressed.
It isn't a matter of being impressed. I believe your being impressed with an alterative plan of salvation is enough evidence to tell me that what impresses you is not very impressive.

-Jeri

 

[turzovka]

What a load of bullshit.

I didn't have to read but a few paragraphs to make that determination.

Where does is say in the Bible that purification is needed before entering the Kingdom of Heaven?

Right here as I already noted: "Truly I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid up the last penny.”

And right here: And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few.

And right here: If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

And right here: "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”

And right here: “Anyone who sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, should petition God, and thus life will be given to the sinner. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as a deadly sin; I do not say that one should pray about that. True all wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.”

And many other places I have no interest is taking the time to point out to you .

Then you correctly stated, Revelations says “nothing defiled shall enter the Kingdom." then you make the absurd claim that, "It should be obvious that is not in reference to those going to hell, but those who are saved, yet still with many stains of sin on their souls after they accepted Christ or for other reasons."

What is obvious is that those they do not go to heaven go to hell because they is no other option mentioned in the Bible.

Don't you think that something as important as something like "purgatory" it would be at least mentioned!?!?!

Nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom of heaven. That is correct. It does not appear you have either grasped the reason for Revelations saying that, nor have you come to terms with it.

Incidentally, do you think the accounts of Fatima are all fabricated? Do you think there was no sign of the supernatural? If you think it was supernatural, then explain it to me. Was if of God or of the evil one?

Purgatory is mentioned in the Bible in many ways in many places. It is revealed to many saints and spoken of throughout history. I am curious where you think all non-Christians are after they die? Or even a great number of Christians for that matter? I am not asking you to judge anyone, I am asking you to guess. Do you think most are in heaven or in hell? I think most go to purgatory and then to heaven. I am not judging either, just guessing.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

"You shoud read the last chapter of the bible which warns people such as you not to add or take away from Gods words. I'd listen if I were you."

Oh, you mean like what Luther and company did? They removed six books from the Bible.

It matters not to me, they still had enough Scripture left where they could have gotten it right.

As to all your other charges, I answered you further below in this thread. I can see you are militant about your charges against the Catholic Church, and yet, your claims are shallow or false or very juvenile (in my opinion). Do not see the point in elaborating over all of them. Yes, we pray to statues. Yes, Mary had all kinds of kids. Yes, Luther denied the existence of purgartory. Yes, Yes, Yes, you got it all right.

Right. The six books the Roman Catholic Church took the liberty of adding. Those six books were never supposed to be in there in the first place. As to your claims of a waiting room in between heaven and hell called Pergatory - show me chapter and verse - specifically - as to your claims of Limbo being where babies go instead of heaven when they die - show me chapter and verse - as to your claim to pray to Mary - show me chapter and verse where Jesus taught us to pray to His Mother. I find the Lords Prayer. The Hail Mary is not in the bible. Show me chapter and verse for that. My bible teaches me I shall have no other gods before me including female ones. There is not QUEEN OF HEAVEN, Lady! God isn't married to Mary and he isn't sharing his throne with her!

When Jesus mother and his siblings were outside the temple waiting for a private meeting with him he was told about this. He said, Who is my mother? My brother? My sister? Those who do the will of my Father in heaven. Had you people read the bible you would know this. Yes. Yes. Yes. You would. Instead you are blind guides leading others into a ditch! How dare you!

- Jeremiah

 

[turzovka]

"You shoud read the last chapter of the bible which warns people such as you not to add or take away from Gods words. I'd listen if I were you."

Oh, you mean like what Luther and company did? They removed six books from the Bible.

It matters not to me, they still had enough Scripture left where they could have gotten it right.

As to all your other charges, I answered you further below in this thread. I can see you are militant about your charges against the Catholic Church, and yet, your claims are shallow or false or very juvenile (in my opinion). Do not see the point in elaborating over all of them. Yes, we pray to statues. Yes, Mary had all kinds of kids. Yes, Luther denied the existence of purgartory. Yes, Yes, Yes, you got it all right.

Right. The six books the Roman Catholic Church took the liberty of adding. Those six books were never supposed to be in there in the first place. As to your claims of a waiting room in between heaven and hell called Pergatory - show me chapter and verse - specifically - as to your claims of Limbo being where babies go instead of heaven when they die - show me chapter and verse - as to your claim to pray to Mary - show me chapter and verse where Jesus taught us to pray to His Mother. I find the Lords Prayer. The Hail Mary is not in the bible. Show me chapter and verse for that. My bible teaches me I shall have no other gods before me including female ones. There is not QUEEN OF HEAVEN, Lady! God isn't married to Mary and he isn't sharing his throne with her!

When Jesus mother and his siblings were outside the temple waiting for a private meeting with him he was told about this. He said, Who is my mother? My brother? My sister? Those who do the will of my Father in heaven. Had you people read the bible you would know this. Yes. Yes. Yes. You would. Instead you are blind guides leading others into a ditch! How dare you!

- Jeremiah

I am not interested in doing your homework for you about the books of the Bible. You can read it yourself.

Rev. Know-It-All's Guide To Reading The Bible - Part 11

Nor am I interested in explaining Mary's perpetual virginity to you. You are not a very good candidate for discourse from what I can tell.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What a load of bullshit.

I didn't have to read but a few paragraphs to make that determination.

Where does is say in the Bible that purification is needed before entering the Kingdom of Heaven?

Right here as I already noted: "Truly I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid up the last penny.”

And right here: And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few.

And right here: If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

And right here: "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”

And right here: “Anyone who sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, should petition God, and thus life will be given to the sinner. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as a deadly sin; I do not say that one should pray about that. True all wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.”

And many other places I have no interest is taking the time to point out to you .

Then you correctly stated, Revelations says “nothing defiled shall enter the Kingdom." then you make the absurd claim that, "It should be obvious that is not in reference to those going to hell, but those who are saved, yet still with many stains of sin on their souls after they accepted Christ or for other reasons."

What is obvious is that those they do not go to heaven go to hell because they is no other option mentioned in the Bible.

Don't you think that something as important as something like "purgatory" it would be at least mentioned!?!?!

Nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom of heaven. That is correct. It does not appear you have either grasped the reason for Revelations saying that, nor have you come to terms with it.

Incidentally, do you think the accounts of Fatima are all fabricated? Do you think there was no sign of the supernatural? If you think it was supernatural, then explain it to me. Was if of God or of the evil one?

Purgatory is mentioned in the Bible in many ways in many places. It is revealed to many saints and spoken of throughout history. I am curious where you think all non-Christians are after they die? Or even a great number of Christians for that matter? I am not asking you to judge anyone, I am asking you to guess. Do you think most are in heaven or in hell? I think most go to purgatory and then to heaven. I am not judging either, just guessing.

Right. Guess your way through life while you have a bible available to teach you the truth. That's rich! - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

"You shoud read the last chapter of the bible which warns people such as you not to add or take away from Gods words. I'd listen if I were you."

Oh, you mean like what Luther and company did? They removed six books from the Bible.

It matters not to me, they still had enough Scripture left where they could have gotten it right.

As to all your other charges, I answered you further below in this thread. I can see you are militant about your charges against the Catholic Church, and yet, your claims are shallow or false or very juvenile (in my opinion). Do not see the point in elaborating over all of them. Yes, we pray to statues. Yes, Mary had all kinds of kids. Yes, Luther denied the existence of purgartory. Yes, Yes, Yes, you got it all right.

Right. The six books the Roman Catholic Church took the liberty of adding. Those six books were never supposed to be in there in the first place. As to your claims of a waiting room in between heaven and hell called Pergatory - show me chapter and verse - specifically - as to your claims of Limbo being where babies go instead of heaven when they die - show me chapter and verse - as to your claim to pray to Mary - show me chapter and verse where Jesus taught us to pray to His Mother. I find the Lords Prayer. The Hail Mary is not in the bible. Show me chapter and verse for that. My bible teaches me I shall have no other gods before me including female ones. There is not QUEEN OF HEAVEN, Lady! God isn't married to Mary and he isn't sharing his throne with her!

When Jesus mother and his siblings were outside the temple waiting for a private meeting with him he was told about this. He said, Who is my mother? My brother? My sister? Those who do the will of my Father in heaven. Had you people read the bible you would know this. Yes. Yes. Yes. You would. Instead you are blind guides leading others into a ditch! How dare you!

- Jeremiah

I am not interested in doing your homework for you about the books of the Bible. You can read it yourself.

Rev. Know-It-All's Guide To Reading The Bible - Part 11

Nor am I interested in explaining Mary's perpetual virginity to you. You are not a very good candidate for discourse from what I can tell.

Lady, you haven't even done your own homework. How in the world could I expect you to do mine? - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Nor am I interested in explaining Mary's perpetual virginity to you. You are not a very good candidate for discourse from what I can tell.

Jeri:
In other words, I know the truth so your false teaching isn't going to work. As to your claim of Marys perpetual virginity? That's a new one! Does she become a virgin over and over again like the 72 virgins in paradise will for Muslims? You guys ought to hook up! I see a future for Islam and the RCC. You're both living in a dream world.

Bible scholars throughout the world have agreed Jesus had brothers and sisters but as the Roman Catholic church claims infallibility they can never admit they were mistaken. That is why the Roman Catholic Church has yet to apologise for its participation with the Nazis and Hitler during WWII and afterwards when the Vatican assisted war criminals such as Eichmann safe passage to Argentina. Oh yeah. No apologies because the RCC is infallible. Gee. Wiz. I thought only G-d Almighty was infallible. What a silly idea. Wonder where I got that from? Oh yes. The Bible. Thanks - Jeremiah

 

[turzovka]

Nor am I interested in explaining Mary's perpetual virginity to you. You are not a very good candidate for discourse from what I can tell.

Jeri:
In other words, I know the truth so your false teaching isn't going to work. As to your claim of Marys perpetual virginity? That's a new one! Does she become a virgin over and over again like the 72 virgins in paradise will for Muslims? You guys ought to hook up! I see a future for Islam and the RCC. You're both living in a dream world.

Bible scholars throughout the world have agreed Jesus had brothers and sisters but as the Roman Catholic church claims infallibility they can never admit they were mistaken. That is why the Roman Catholic Church has yet to apologise for its participation with the Nazis and Hitler during WWII and afterwards when the Vatican assisted war criminals such as Eichmann safe passage to Argentina. Oh yeah. No apologies because the RCC is infallible. Gee. Wiz. I thought only G-d Almighty was infallible. What a silly idea. Wonder where I got that from? Oh yes. The Bible. Thanks - Jeremiah

All I can say is I am glad you are on "their side" and not ours. You are doing yourself and your mission a disservice.

 

[turzovka]

The absolute sincerity with which some people inform us of what our fate will be after death is a testament to the concept and power of propaganda..especially propaganda pounded into the heads of children.

Faith may not actually be able to move mountains, but for danged sure faith is more than capable of convincing people that the mountain moved.

The events at Fatima, Portugal require no amount of faith. Only simple honesty and the simple ability to reason.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The bible is quite clear that G-ds people are to speak out against evil, condemn false teachings and expose those who spread false teaching ( see Jude ) so that they do not decieve the flock. If you had studied the bible you would know that. The Apostle Paul is our example in the New Testament.

You are one Peter speaks of when he teaches of those false teachers who twist the scriptures.

If I didn't warn you - your blood would be on my hands on judgment day - if I warn you my hands are clean and you alone will be held accountable for not heeding the warning. Consider yourself warned.

- Jeremiah

 

[Intense]

If there were no purgatory, what would Protestants say about the billions of people who never knew or accepted Jesus? Are they all condemned? Or is salvation not just about faith? Or do most go directly to heaven? Neither of those answers sounds quite right or appears to line up properly with the nature of God’s justice and mercy.

This immediate heaven or hell upon the moment of death is just too suddenly drastic, and horrifying. Especially when one begins to ponder what merits heaven and what merits hell. Is there an age of accountability for an 11 year old pagan? I mean, is there an exact day he becomes accountable for his soul and actions? One day, if he dies, he is save, and the next day, if he dies, he is condemned? This cannot be. Consequenltly, there are thousands or millions of scenarios of humanity where the situations of saved or unsaved are equally precarious and unsettling.

Yes, we may very well be saved by faith (accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior) but that does not mean we still may not have to be purified before we can enter heaven. Revelations says “nothing defiled shall enter the Kingdom.” It should be obvious that is not in reference to those going to hell, but those who are saved, yet still with many stains of sin on their souls after they accepted Christ or for other reasons. With a doctrine of purgatory, it allows for much, much more mercy from a merciful God. Far less people end up totally condemned.

The most astounding of all the Christian miracles in recent centuries was the miracle of the sun at Fatima, Portugal, October 13, 1917. Three young children who had been witnessing apparitions of the Virgin Mary prophesied three months in advance (July 13) that a great miracle would be performed by Our Lady for all those people present and doubting the children to see on October 13th. So on a very rainy, muddy gray Portugal day 70,000 people arrived at the Cova da Iria to see if the children were truly prophets. Soon after 12 noon the rain stopped and the gray skies were split in two by an incredible sun which was inexplicably viewable to the human eye without damage. It looked like a silver disc and started “dancing.” Bouncing up and down defying cosmic laws. Then it started spinning and shooting off rays of all kinds of colors across the sky and landscape changing the faces of the crowd to blue, yellow, green, etc. It carried on in this remarkable fashion for twelve minutes. For its grand finale the sun turned blood red grew in size and charged toward the earth greatly frightening all present. At the last moment it stopped and receded peacefully into the sky.

This was a miracle beyond doubt. There were no longer any skeptics present. All saw that which was astoundingly prophesied three months in advance to the day. The soaked muddy ground was bone dry after this occurrence as a secondary miracle. These facts were reported in the various newspapers including O Seculo, Lisbon’s largest, if one wants further verification. Mary told of other events as related by the children that also came true, if one wants further verification.

I report this for one purpose, specifically for Protestants. One of the children, Lucia, asked about a relative by name who recently died. The Virgin Mother said that woman was in purgatory and would be there for a long time. Question: How can a person of normal intelligence and reason doubt the supernatural nature of this event? Question: How can anyone who accepts this miracle then doubt the other words Our Lady gave to these children, very specifically the mention of purgatory?

Yes, purgatory exists and many nominal or lukewarm Christians should be eternally grateful for that because such lazy or sinful behavior does not warrant heaven. And many non believers may rejoice if they find themselves there as well. It is a place of suffering, loneliness and regret, but there is also an incredible gratitude and joy knowing that one day each soul in purgatory will be allowed into heaven.

The evidence for purgatory is far greater than the Fatima account. I submit below some Biblical verses which Catholic teaching, in many cases, regards as references to purgatory or a state of purification. Consider them for yourselves.

=====================================================


Matthew 5:23-26
"Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. Reconcile with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid up the last penny.”

[Jesus is assuring us (“truly I say to you”) that we will pay (be imprisoned) for a portion our transgressions until we have paid the last penny if we do not forgive others or obey. The key word is UNTIL. It is clear that once we have paid for our sins, THEN we WILL be released from our prison. That is not Hell because Hell is eternal. This is not an earthly reference as many who are to be saved have died without fulfilling all the requirements this passage implies. This is referring to purgatory where you will be eventually released.]


Luke 12:45-48
"But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk: the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

[The one slave who was not as guilty because he was somewhat ignorant of the gravity of his sins will receive less lashes. Note, he will still be punished, but not as severely. This is clearly not talking about hell, it is about some punishment that is less than eternal. It is purgatory once again. Different degrees of punishment which is how many have described it. Also, to whom more has been given (i.e. knowledge, riches, revelation, opportunity, etc.) more will be required; otherwise something consequential results. ]


1 Corinthians 3:12-15
Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

[Saved, but still will suffer loss as yet through fire. Protestants can argue this is some earthly punishment, not an afterlife matter, but I, and the Catholic Church, say not so. This is so much better explained as a purgatory sentence. Purgatory is a cleansing fire.]


Matthew 12:32
“Whoever says anything against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever says anything against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

[To me this further indicates that certain sins will cause some to suffer punishment eternally, no doubt. However, more importantly, this indicates that there is forgiveness for some in the age to come. For who? Those in heaven? They need no more forgiveness? For those in hell? No, because hell is eternal and there is no forgiveness at that point. It is for those in purgatory in the age that still awaits them.]


Luke 7:47
“I tell you, that is why her many sins are forgiven --- because of her great love. Little is forgiven the one whose love is small. “

[To me, this points to a one having some sentence in Purgatory in the age to come. For those who forgave “little” on earth, God is saying he will forgive “little” when judging you. He’s not saying he will forgive “nothing”, but something. In other words, he is lessening your debt, not totally removing it, and not totally condemning either.]




+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


These passages above (and many others not posted here) are demanding more than just faith from us, more than just accepting Jesus as our Savior. To think we are allowed into heaven without anything more than just accepting some idea as truth, and then having license to live our life as wantonly as desired is an abomination. You may not be condemned for your carelessness, but you will be purified for it. “Nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom.” (Revelations 21:27)


Addendum:
Saint Frances of Rome (1384 – 1440) not only saw purgatory but visited it, witnessed the souls who suffered there, and told of its three regions. She also visited hell, saw its frightening torments, and reported of its horror, disorder, despair and eternal darkness. Of purgatory, she reported none of hell's finality, but instead told of divine hope and of souls that suffered greatly but were assisted by angels to withstand their torments.

Saint Frances further identified three separate areas of purgatory where souls had been placed in proportion to the time required to atone for their sins. Lower purgatory is filled with fire, though not a dark fire as in hell. Intermediate purgatory possesses three chambers containing either ice, boiling oil or molten metal. And she further related the existence of an upper purgatory where souls that are closest to deliverance suffer only the pain of loss.


From Arguments Against Purgatory Considered by Kevin Tierney by Kevin Tierney
“The concept of purgatory arose long after the Apostles.” I’d agree with this statement, if we change long after to long before. Jews have always prayed the “Kaddish.” This prayer, which reaffirms faith in God despite the mourner's loss, was thought to hasten the process of purification. So to claim the doctrine was invented long after the Apostles is utterly false. Granted, the Jews did not call it purgatory, but the basis is exactly the same. So the witness of this doctrine existed among the Jews long before the Apostles.


Addendum 2:
I am in the possession of pages and pages of documentations from saints, from visitors from purgatory to earth leaving visible signs and dictating manuscripts to pious visionaries. The books are spellbinding --- and surely true. But I do not see a reason to publish all that here, especially since I have enough trouble finding the time to speak to what I have posted already.

The subject is treated under these heads:

Catholic doctrine
Errors
Proofs
Duration and nature
Succouring the dead
Indulgences
Invocation of souls
Utility of prayer for the departed

Catholic doctrine

Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

The faith of the Church concerning purgatory is clearly expressed in the Decree of Union drawn up by the Council of Florence (Mansi, t. XXXI, col. 1031), and in the decree of the Council of Trent which (Sess. XXV) defined:

"Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has from the Sacred Scriptures and the ancient tradition of the Fathers taught in Councils and very recently in this Ecumenical synod (Sess. VI, cap. XXX; Sess. XXII cap.ii, iii) that there is a purgatory, and that the souls therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar; the Holy Synod enjoins on the Bishops that they diligently endeavor to have the sound doctrine of the Fathers in Councils regarding purgatory everywhere taught and preached, held and believed by the faithful" (Denzinger, "Enchiridon", 983).

Further than this the definitions of the Church do not go, but the tradition of the Fathers and the Schoolmen must be consulted to explain the teachings of the councils, and to make clear the belief and the practices of the faithful.
Temporal punishment

That temporal punishment is due to sin, even after the sin itself has been pardoned by God, is clearly the teaching of Scripture. God indeed brought man out of his first disobedience and gave him power to govern all things (Wisdom 10:2), but still condemned him "to eat his bread in the sweat of his brow" until he returned unto dust. God forgave the incredulity of Moses and Aaron, but in punishment kept them from the "land of promise" (Numbers 20:12). The Lord took away the sin of David, but the life of the child was forfeited because David had made God's enemies blaspheme His Holy Name (2 Samuel 12:13-14). In the New Testament as well as in the Old, almsgiving and fasting, and in general penitential acts are the real fruits of repentance (Matthew 3:8; Luke 17:3; 3:3). The whole penitential system of the Church testifies that the voluntary assumption of penitential works has always been part of true repentance and the Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, can. xi) reminds the faithful that God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin, and this doctrine involves as its necessary consequence a belief that the sinner failing to do penance in this life may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God.
Venial sins

All sins are not equal before God, nor dare anyone assert that the daily faults of human frailty will be punished with the same severity that is meted out to serious violation of God's law. On the other hand whosoever comes into God's presence must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His "eyes are too pure, to behold evil" (Habakkuk 1:13). For unrepented venial faults for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin at time of death, the Church has always taught the doctrine of purgatory.

So deep was this belief ingrained in our common humanity that it was accepted by the Jews, and in at least a shadowy way by the pagans, long before the coming of Christianity. ("Aeneid," VI, 735 sq.; Sophocles, "Antigone," 450 sq.).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Purgatory

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Yes, we may very well be saved by faith (accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior) but that does not mean we still may not have to be purified before we can enter heaven.

Actually, that is exactly what it means.
If Christ died for your sins, and God remembers your sin no more, then from what are you being purified? When Christ was paying for your sins on that cross did He forget some of them?
What your saying is that Christ's death on the cross wasn't enough. That your "works" are required. You + Christ = Heaven?
It was enough, and it was all inclusive. The sin you will commit tomorrow was paid for 2,000 years ago.

Having said that, repentance is to turn away from sin, as well we should. But if you slip up and sin next week, and if you believe that Christ paid your debt, you aren't defiled, you are forgiven. Period. Your part of the equation is to say, "Thank you Lord".

Exchanging places with Christ means when God looks at you, He sees the righteousness of His Son, not your righteousness. The only thing you have to do with it, is to accept the propitiation of Christ and live for Him as best you can.

Catholics and especially their Bible have accepted what is called "replacement theology". That is adding to and taking away from the Bible to create one of their own that more closely resembles their doctrine.
Purgatory was a concept of Catholic doctrine, that they have come to realize does not correlate with Biblical truth, and has since been shelved by the Catholics.
Be very aware and wary of religious doctrine. It can be a path away from Christ, not toward Him.

If you belong to Christ, your last breath here on earth is your first breath in Paradise. No waiting room necessary.

I'm glad you mentioned the Catholics being the founders of "replacement theology", Ram. Finally the Jewish Rabbis have caught onto this and begun to speak to the Christians at step up for Israel meetings - other Israel related meetings that "replacement theology" is a lie and is a hellish doctrine! It is! It is straight out of the pits of hell but leave it to the Roman Catholic Church to manage that one! They surely did!

Replacement theology is some very scary business. The bottom line is the Pope would have people believe that Israel is no longer Israel but "the church"... If you really dig deep you'll learn that the Roman Catholic Church hasn't dropped its agenda against the Jews at all........they are coming in the back door on this one and it has yet to dawn on some people what is going on. The same replacement theology almost crept into the evangelical churches but thank God because we knew our bibles we threw those rascals out! Israel is Israel in the Old Testament. NOT THE CHURCH. Israel is Israel in the New testament. NOT THE CHURCH. God hasn't dropped his plans for the Jews as the Vatican would have people believe through their devilish doctrine of replacement theology. Not at all. The Jews are G-ds people and he promised long ago through His own prophets - All Israel shall be saved. To G-d be the Glory for His Holy Word. Let the Word of God be true and every man be found a liar. Amen. - Jeri

 

[turzovka]

The subject is treated under these heads:

Catholic doctrine
Errors
Proofs
Duration and nature
Succouring the dead
Indulgences
Invocation of souls
Utility of prayer for the departed

Catholic doctrine

Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

The faith of the Church concerning purgatory is clearly expressed in the Decree of Union drawn up by the Council of Florence (Mansi, t. XXXI, col. 1031), and in the decree of the Council of Trent which (Sess. XXV) defined:

"Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has from the Sacred Scriptures and the ancient tradition of the Fathers taught in Councils and very recently in this Ecumenical synod (Sess. VI, cap. XXX; Sess. XXII cap.ii, iii) that there is a purgatory, and that the souls therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar; the Holy Synod enjoins on the Bishops that they diligently endeavor to have the sound doctrine of the Fathers in Councils regarding purgatory everywhere taught and preached, held and believed by the faithful" (Denzinger, "Enchiridon", 983).

Further than this the definitions of the Church do not go, but the tradition of the Fathers and the Schoolmen must be consulted to explain the teachings of the councils, and to make clear the belief and the practices of the faithful.
Temporal punishment

That temporal punishment is due to sin, even after the sin itself has been pardoned by God, is clearly the teaching of Scripture. God indeed brought man out of his first disobedience and gave him power to govern all things (Wisdom 10:2), but still condemned him "to eat his bread in the sweat of his brow" until he returned unto dust. God forgave the incredulity of Moses and Aaron, but in punishment kept them from the "land of promise" (Numbers 20:12). The Lord took away the sin of David, but the life of the child was forfeited because David had made God's enemies blaspheme His Holy Name (2 Samuel 12:13-14). In the New Testament as well as in the Old, almsgiving and fasting, and in general penitential acts are the real fruits of repentance (Matthew 3:8; Luke 17:3; 3:3). The whole penitential system of the Church testifies that the voluntary assumption of penitential works has always been part of true repentance and the Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, can. xi) reminds the faithful that God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin, and this doctrine involves as its necessary consequence a belief that the sinner failing to do penance in this life may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God.
Venial sins

All sins are not equal before God, nor dare anyone assert that the daily faults of human frailty will be punished with the same severity that is meted out to serious violation of God's law. On the other hand whosoever comes into God's presence must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His "eyes are too pure, to behold evil" (Habakkuk 1:13). For unrepented venial faults for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin at time of death, the Church has always taught the doctrine of purgatory.

So deep was this belief ingrained in our common humanity that it was accepted by the Jews, and in at least a shadowy way by the pagans, long before the coming of Christianity. ("Aeneid," VI, 735 sq.; Sophocles, "Antigone," 450 sq.).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Purgatory

Thank you for referencing and positng those most insightful, truthful and uplifting words as put forth by the Church established by Jesus Christ in Matthew 16. The explanation speaks to the VERY NATURE OF GOD.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I have been warning the Jews for years that the Roman Catholic Church was still teaching replacement theology and it would not end well. As you can see here they are still at it.

When a Church departs from the truth it is the duty of the Christian to leave. The bible teaches us that. We are not to listen to false teachings. Ever. Whoever hasn't left the Catholic church already should do so immediately. imo. They are teaching heresy by offering another avenue of salvation. Do not be surprised to find the Vatican hooking up with globalists - using Project Bluebeam for holograms and that big speech from God in the sky - all designed to deceive you. They have no connection with the God of the bible so they are going to have to pull off those miracles some how!!

Blue beam should do the trick! ha! ha! For those who don't know the scriptures they will fall for it - for those who do? It won't work. - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Then there's the lifetime of hell the molested victims of catholic priests must endure while the priests themselves vacation on a tropical island before being reassigned to new church just chock full of unmolested children.

Actually, for all we know, that new church might be reeling from the horrible actions of the previous child molester priest.

Nice for the priests that all they have to do is a couple of hail Mary's and they're good to go.

The poor kids? Like I said, its a lifetime of hell for them.

The bible never taught the disciples they could not marry. The bible actually teaches that a priest, a bishop, an elder should be the husband of one wife and have his home in order. Paul left it to the individual, for him it was better not to marry but what did he say? If you are going to burn with lust go ahead and get married! He didn't say you cannot preach the gospel if you are married. You see how easily the RCC went off the rails on that one? Again it was about having complete control of the nuns and priests - store them in convents and such and keep them under your thumb.

The Catholic Church wrote their own bible and their own doctrines which as you can see have produced fruits of rape, murder ( cover ups the vatican was involved in included murder ) molestation of altar boys, little girls, women in the congregation, you name it - they have done it!

The Nuns and Priests who desired to serve God were deceived into believing they would have to give up marriage. That is a lie. Peter was married. His mother in law had a fever and was healed. Let's get real here.

The entire doctrine of the Catholic church is based on a lie. It isn't based on the bible which is why I don't count them a Christian Church at all. On the other hand the Catholic people - many who have no idea what sort of sons of hell are behind the entire operation - if their hearts are pure towards God he will reveal it to them and they will leave like so many already have. The numbers have been increasingly declining over the years. I believe there are many God fearing people still left inside the Catholic church and although many of their own children were raped and molested by those the RCC protected they are staying there for now out of tradition and not much more. The RCC is a dead church. - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

There is a reason why only Catholics and no other Christians teach purgatory. It's because it is a Catholic concept, not found in the Bible. And what it means is that something other than Christ's pure blood is necessary to come to the Father.

Consider the thief on the cross. He didn't repent of his sins. In fact said that he deserved his fate. And yet Christ told the thief, today you shall be with me in Paradise". No cleansing room.
And Christ never baptized babies. Baptism is an individual, decision based activity. Babies can't make that decision.
Catholics came up with purgatory, as an alternative to their thinking that babies go to hell if they die before they are baptized, because to Catholics, only the baptized go to Heaven.
Again, consider the thief.

Baptism is not a prerequisite to Heaven, nor is purgatory. Christ alone is the way to the Father.

Here is the new view of the Catholic church. Which means either their dogma was wrong to begin with, or God has changed his mind and is now accepting unbaptized babies.
Since God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, it is the dogma that had to be brought back into compliance with the Bible.

The New Catholic doctrine:

Babies who die before being baptized will no longer be trapped in limbo following a decision by the Pope to abolish the concept from Roman Catholic teaching.
The decision was taken after Benedict XVI was presented with Vatican studies that said there were "serious" grounds that such souls could go to heaven, rather than exist between heaven and hell as they have done for almost 800 years.

The 41-page report by the Vatican's Theological Commission, which was compiled following a three-year study, said the concept was an "unduly restrictive view of salvation". However, it added that baptism was the only way to remove the stain of original sin - which according to the Catholic faith all are born with - and urged parents to continue to baptise their children.
"There is greater theological awareness today that God is merciful and wants all human beings to be saved. Grace has priority over sin, and the exclusion of innocent babies from heaven does not seem to reflect Christ's special love for the little ones,"

There is no greater theological awareness today. The theology has always remained constant. Catholic awareness of it is what was lacking for 800 years.

So did purgatory all of a sudden cease to exist with this revelation, or did the idea of purgatory cease to exist?
Can you find this waiting room cleansing in anything Christ taught? And speaking of what Christ taught, was God really opposed to eating fish on Fri. for awhile, and then warmed to the idea? And didn't Christ's mother preach until her death in Ephesus?

On the Catholic revision of the Bible, I'd say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That way you don't have to go back and change what should not have been altered to begin with.

What troubling passages in Scripture are you referring to? I'm sure the answer can be found without reworking what Christ said or accomplished.

Well done, Ram! Well done!!