The Catholic doctrine of purgatory

[turzovka]

If there were no purgatory, what would Protestants say about the billions of people who never knew or accepted Jesus? Are they all condemned? Or is salvation not just about faith? Or do most go directly to heaven? Neither of those answers sounds quite right or appears to line up properly with the nature of God’s justice and mercy.

This immediate heaven or hell upon the moment of death is just too suddenly drastic, and horrifying. Especially when one begins to ponder what merits heaven and what merits hell. Is there an age of accountability for an 11 year old pagan? I mean, is there an exact day he becomes accountable for his soul and actions? One day, if he dies, he is save, and the next day, if he dies, he is condemned? This cannot be. Consequenltly, there are thousands or millions of scenarios of humanity where the situations of saved or unsaved are equally precarious and unsettling.

Yes, we may very well be saved by faith (accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior) but that does not mean we still may not have to be purified before we can enter heaven. Revelations says “nothing defiled shall enter the Kingdom.” It should be obvious that is not in reference to those going to hell, but those who are saved, yet still with many stains of sin on their souls after they accepted Christ or for other reasons. With a doctrine of purgatory, it allows for much, much more mercy from a merciful God. Far less people end up totally condemned.

The most astounding of all the Christian miracles in recent centuries was the miracle of the sun at Fatima, Portugal, October 13, 1917. Three young children who had been witnessing apparitions of the Virgin Mary prophesied three months in advance (July 13) that a great miracle would be performed by Our Lady for all those people present and doubting the children to see on October 13th. So on a very rainy, muddy gray Portugal day 70,000 people arrived at the Cova da Iria to see if the children were truly prophets. Soon after 12 noon the rain stopped and the gray skies were split in two by an incredible sun which was inexplicably viewable to the human eye without damage. It looked like a silver disc and started “dancing.” Bouncing up and down defying cosmic laws. Then it started spinning and shooting off rays of all kinds of colors across the sky and landscape changing the faces of the crowd to blue, yellow, green, etc. It carried on in this remarkable fashion for twelve minutes. For its grand finale the sun turned blood red grew in size and charged toward the earth greatly frightening all present. At the last moment it stopped and receded peacefully into the sky.

This was a miracle beyond doubt. There were no longer any skeptics present. All saw that which was astoundingly prophesied three months in advance to the day. The soaked muddy ground was bone dry after this occurrence as a secondary miracle. These facts were reported in the various newspapers including O Seculo, Lisbon’s largest, if one wants further verification. Mary told of other events as related by the children that also came true, if one wants further verification.

I report this for one purpose, specifically for Protestants. One of the children, Lucia, asked about a relative by name who recently died. The Virgin Mother said that woman was in purgatory and would be there for a long time. Question: How can a person of normal intelligence and reason doubt the supernatural nature of this event? Question: How can anyone who accepts this miracle then doubt the other words Our Lady gave to these children, very specifically the mention of purgatory?

Yes, purgatory exists and many nominal or lukewarm Christians should be eternally grateful for that because such lazy or sinful behavior does not warrant heaven. And many non believers may rejoice if they find themselves there as well. It is a place of suffering, loneliness and regret, but there is also an incredible gratitude and joy knowing that one day each soul in purgatory will be allowed into heaven.

The evidence for purgatory is far greater than the Fatima account. I submit below some Biblical verses which Catholic teaching, in many cases, regards as references to purgatory or a state of purification. Consider them for yourselves.

=====================================================


Matthew 5:23-26
"Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. Reconcile with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid up the last penny.”

[Jesus is assuring us (“truly I say to you”) that we will pay (be imprisoned) for a portion our transgressions until we have paid the last penny if we do not forgive others or obey. The key word is UNTIL. It is clear that once we have paid for our sins, THEN we WILL be released from our prison. That is not Hell because Hell is eternal. This is not an earthly reference as many who are to be saved have died without fulfilling all the requirements this passage implies. This is referring to purgatory where you will be eventually released.]


Luke 12:45-48
"But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk: the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

[The one slave who was not as guilty because he was somewhat ignorant of the gravity of his sins will receive less lashes. Note, he will still be punished, but not as severely. This is clearly not talking about hell, it is about some punishment that is less than eternal. It is purgatory once again. Different degrees of punishment which is how many have described it. Also, to whom more has been given (i.e. knowledge, riches, revelation, opportunity, etc.) more will be required; otherwise something consequential results. ]


1 Corinthians 3:12-15
Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

[Saved, but still will suffer loss as yet through fire. Protestants can argue this is some earthly punishment, not an afterlife matter, but I, and the Catholic Church, say not so. This is so much better explained as a purgatory sentence. Purgatory is a cleansing fire.]


Matthew 12:32
“Whoever says anything against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever says anything against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

[To me this further indicates that certain sins will cause some to suffer punishment eternally, no doubt. However, more importantly, this indicates that there is forgiveness for some in the age to come. For who? Those in heaven? They need no more forgiveness? For those in hell? No, because hell is eternal and there is no forgiveness at that point. It is for those in purgatory in the age that still awaits them.]


Luke 7:47
“I tell you, that is why her many sins are forgiven --- because of her great love. Little is forgiven the one whose love is small. “

[To me, this points to a one having some sentence in Purgatory in the age to come. For those who forgave “little” on earth, God is saying he will forgive “little” when judging you. He’s not saying he will forgive “nothing”, but something. In other words, he is lessening your debt, not totally removing it, and not totally condemning either.]




+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


These passages above (and many others not posted here) are demanding more than just faith from us, more than just accepting Jesus as our Savior. To think we are allowed into heaven without anything more than just accepting some idea as truth, and then having license to live our life as wantonly as desired is an abomination. You may not be condemned for your carelessness, but you will be purified for it. “Nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom.” (Revelations 21:27)


Addendum:
Saint Frances of Rome (1384 – 1440) not only saw purgatory but visited it, witnessed the souls who suffered there, and told of its three regions. She also visited hell, saw its frightening torments, and reported of its horror, disorder, despair and eternal darkness. Of purgatory, she reported none of hell's finality, but instead told of divine hope and of souls that suffered greatly but were assisted by angels to withstand their torments.

Saint Frances further identified three separate areas of purgatory where souls had been placed in proportion to the time required to atone for their sins. Lower purgatory is filled with fire, though not a dark fire as in hell. Intermediate purgatory possesses three chambers containing either ice, boiling oil or molten metal. And she further related the existence of an upper purgatory where souls that are closest to deliverance suffer only the pain of loss.


From Arguments Against Purgatory Considered by Kevin Tierney by Kevin Tierney
“The concept of purgatory arose long after the Apostles.” I’d agree with this statement, if we change long after to long before. Jews have always prayed the “Kaddish.” This prayer, which reaffirms faith in God despite the mourner's loss, was thought to hasten the process of purification. So to claim the doctrine was invented long after the Apostles is utterly false. Granted, the Jews did not call it purgatory, but the basis is exactly the same. So the witness of this doctrine existed among the Jews long before the Apostles.


Addendum 2:
I am in the possession of pages and pages of documentations from saints, from visitors from purgatory to earth leaving visible signs and dictating manuscripts to pious visionaries. The books are spellbinding --- and surely true. But I do not see a reason to publish all that here, especially since I have enough trouble finding the time to speak to what I have posted already.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Yes, we may very well be saved by faith (accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior) but that does not mean we still may not have to be purified before we can enter heaven.

Actually, that is exactly what it means.
If Christ died for your sins, and God remembers your sin no more, then from what are you being purified? When Christ was paying for your sins on that cross did He forget some of them?
What your saying is that Christ's death on the cross wasn't enough. That your "works" are required. You + Christ = Heaven?
It was enough, and it was all inclusive. The sin you will commit tomorrow was paid for 2,000 years ago.

Having said that, repentance is to turn away from sin, as well we should. But if you slip up and sin next week, and if you believe that Christ paid your debt, you aren't defiled, you are forgiven. Period. Your part of the equation is to say, "Thank you Lord".

Exchanging places with Christ means when God looks at you, He sees the righteousness of His Son, not your righteousness. The only thing you have to do with it, is to accept the propitiation of Christ and live for Him as best you can.

Catholics and especially their Bible have accepted what is called "replacement theology". That is adding to and taking away from the Bible to create one of their own that more closely resembles their doctrine.
Purgatory was a concept of Catholic doctrine, that they have come to realize does not correlate with Biblical truth, and has since been shelved by the Catholics.
Be very aware and wary of religious doctrine. It can be a path away from Christ, not toward Him.

If you belong to Christ, your last breath here on earth is your first breath in Paradise. No waiting room necessary.

 

[turzovka]

Yes, we may very well be saved by faith (accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior) but that does not mean we still may not have to be purified before we can enter heaven.

Actually, that is exactly what it means.
If Christ died for your sins, and God remembers your sin no more, then from what are you being purified? When Christ was paying for your sins on that cross did He forget some of them?
What your saying is that Christ's death on the cross wasn't enough. That your "works" are required. You + Christ = Heaven?
It was enough, and it was all inclusive. The sin you will commit tomorrow was paid for 2,000 years ago.

Having said that, repentance is to turn away from sin, as well we should. But if you slip up and sin next week, and if you believe that Christ paid your debt, you aren't defiled, you are forgiven. Period. Your part of the equation is to say, "Thank you Lord".

Exchanging places with Christ means when God looks at you, He sees the righteousness of His Son, not your righteousness. The only thing you have to do with it, is to accept the propitiation of Christ and live for Him as best you can.

Catholics and especially their Bible have accepted what is called "replacement theology". That is adding to and taking away from the Bible to create one of their own that more closely resembles their doctrine.
Purgatory was a concept of Catholic doctrine, that they have come to realize does not correlate with Biblical truth, and has since been shelved by the Catholics.
Be very aware and wary of religious doctrine. It can be a path away from Christ, not toward Him.

If you belong to Christ, your last breath here on earth is your first breath in Paradise. No waiting room necessary.

With all due respect, I believe you are simply looking for ways to reinforce your preferred beliefs and ignore so many other troubling passages in Scripture --- and also ignore so many other troubling questions. I only began to list them in my verses, and in some of my questions. I, and the Catholic Church, choose not to put our heads in the sand when faced with them. I choose not to repeat what I already said, nor will I add more at this time.

But I understand that one can be saved through faith despite their wretchedness. I also understand when Scripture says "God is not one to be mocked." Living a life of ill repute and at the same time chiming out "Jesus is my savior" is mockery. Simple as this: You can be saved -- from hell --- and still cast into purgatory to be made pure and undefiled. Purgatory is the greatest of gifts from above.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Then there's the lifetime of hell the molested victims of catholic priests must endure while the priests themselves vacation on a tropical island before being reassigned to new church just chock full of unmolested children.

Actually, for all we know, that new church might be reeling from the horrible actions of the previous child molester priest.

Nice for the priests that all they have to do is a couple of hail Mary's and they're good to go.

The poor kids? Like I said, its a lifetime of hell for them.

 

[The Irish Ram]

There is a reason why only Catholics and no other Christians teach purgatory. It's because it is a Catholic concept, not found in the Bible. And what it means is that something other than Christ's pure blood is necessary to come to the Father.

Consider the thief on the cross. He didn't repent of his sins. In fact said that he deserved his fate. And yet Christ told the thief, today you shall be with me in Paradise". No cleansing room.
And Christ never baptized babies. Baptism is an individual, decision based activity. Babies can't make that decision.
Catholics came up with purgatory, as an alternative to their thinking that babies go to hell if they die before they are baptized, because to Catholics, only the baptized go to Heaven.
Again, consider the thief.

Baptism is not a prerequisite to Heaven, nor is purgatory. Christ alone is the way to the Father.

Here is the new view of the Catholic church. Which means either their dogma was wrong to begin with, or God has changed his mind and is now accepting unbaptized babies.
Since God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, it is the dogma that had to be brought back into compliance with the Bible.

The New Catholic doctrine:

Babies who die before being baptized will no longer be trapped in limbo following a decision by the Pope to abolish the concept from Roman Catholic teaching.
The decision was taken after Benedict XVI was presented with Vatican studies that said there were "serious" grounds that such souls could go to heaven, rather than exist between heaven and hell as they have done for almost 800 years.

The 41-page report by the Vatican's Theological Commission, which was compiled following a three-year study, said the concept was an "unduly restrictive view of salvation". However, it added that baptism was the only way to remove the stain of original sin - which according to the Catholic faith all are born with - and urged parents to continue to baptise their children.
"There is greater theological awareness today that God is merciful and wants all human beings to be saved. Grace has priority over sin, and the exclusion of innocent babies from heaven does not seem to reflect Christ's special love for the little ones,"

There is no greater theological awareness today. The theology has always remained constant. Catholic awareness of it is what was lacking for 800 years.

So did purgatory all of a sudden cease to exist with this revelation, or did the idea of purgatory cease to exist?
Can you find this waiting room cleansing in anything Christ taught? And speaking of what Christ taught, was God really opposed to eating fish on Fri. for awhile, and then warmed to the idea? And didn't Christ's mother preach until her death in Ephesus?

On the Catholic revision of the Bible, I'd say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That way you don't have to go back and change what should not have been altered to begin with.

What troubling passages in Scripture are you referring to? I'm sure the answer can be found without reworking what Christ said or accomplished.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Then there's the lifetime of hell the molested victims of catholic priests must endure while the priests themselves vacation on a tropical island before being reassigned to new church just chock full of unmolested children.

Actually, for all we know, that new church might be reeling from the horrible actions of the previous child molester priest.

Nice for the priests that all they have to do is a couple of hail Mary's and they're good to go.

The poor kids? Like I said, its a lifetime of hell for them.

Stop judging Christ based on human actions. Instead ask yourself, "How many children did Christ molest"? If the answer is none, then it is the teaching of Christ that you need to follow, and let God deal with the sins of mankind.

 

[editec]

The absolute sincerity with which some people inform us of what our fate will be after death is a testament to the concept and power of propaganda..especially propaganda pounded into the heads of children.

Faith may not actually be able to move mountains, but for danged sure faith is more than capable of convincing people that the mountain moved.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Matthew 12:32
“Whoever says anything against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever says anything against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

The Holy Spirit is the power that convicts the heart to God. Those that have tasted the Spirit, and then make a conscious decision to turn away from that conviction to follow Satan or their own understanding, have sealed their own fate and destination, concerning their ability to be forgiven. It is a warning, not a threat. And no mention of a cleansing arena second chance.

Luke 7:47
“I tell you, that is why her many sins are forgiven --- because of her great love. Little is forgiven the one whose love is small.

Because the one whose love of Christ is small doesn't feel the need to be forgiven. Read it in context.

Christ was referring to the lack love of the pharisees vs. the love of the woman sinner. The pharisees didn't feel the need to be forgiven. The woman's love for Christ was evident in spite of her need to be forgiven. Her faith and love for Christ saved her. The lack thereof, prevented the pharisees from receiving the gift Christ imparted on the woman. She received much. They received little. It has nothing to do with a limbo area that Christ never spoke of or taught about.

If you believe that Christ died for our sins, there is no need for a residual sin clinic.
The proof of that is in His last words, IT IS FINISHED, not, "you can move on to the next step".

 

[Lonestar_logic]

If there were no purgatory, what would Protestants say about the billions of people who never knew or accepted Jesus? Are they all condemned? Or is salvation not just about faith? Or do most go directly to heaven? Neither of those answers sounds quite right or appears to line up properly with the nature of God’s justice and mercy.

This immediate heaven or hell upon the moment of death is just too suddenly drastic, and horrifying. Especially when one begins to ponder what merits heaven and what merits hell. Is there an age of accountability for an 11 year old pagan? I mean, is there an exact day he becomes accountable for his soul and actions? One day, if he dies, he is save, and the next day, if he dies, he is condemned? This cannot be. Consequenltly, there are thousands or millions of scenarios of humanity where the situations of saved or unsaved are equally precarious and unsettling.

Yes, we may very well be saved by faith (accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior) but that does not mean we still may not have to be purified before we can enter heaven. Revelations says “nothing defiled shall enter the Kingdom.” It should be obvious that is not in reference to those going to hell, but those who are saved, yet still with many stains of sin on their souls after they accepted Christ or for other reasons. With a doctrine of purgatory, it allows for much, much more mercy from a merciful God. Far less people end up totally condemned.

The most astounding of all the Christian miracles in recent centuries was the miracle of the sun at Fatima, Portugal, October 13, 1917. Three young children who had been witnessing apparitions of the Virgin Mary prophesied three months in advance (July 13) that a great miracle would be performed by Our Lady for all those people present and doubting the children to see on October 13th. So on a very rainy, muddy gray Portugal day 70,000 people arrived at the Cova da Iria to see if the children were truly prophets. Soon after 12 noon the rain stopped and the gray skies were split in two by an incredible sun which was inexplicably viewable to the human eye without damage. It looked like a silver disc and started “dancing.” Bouncing up and down defying cosmic laws. Then it started spinning and shooting off rays of all kinds of colors across the sky and landscape changing the faces of the crowd to blue, yellow, green, etc. It carried on in this remarkable fashion for twelve minutes. For its grand finale the sun turned blood red grew in size and charged toward the earth greatly frightening all present. At the last moment it stopped and receded peacefully into the sky.

This was a miracle beyond doubt. There were no longer any skeptics present. All saw that which was astoundingly prophesied three months in advance to the day. The soaked muddy ground was bone dry after this occurrence as a secondary miracle. These facts were reported in the various newspapers including O Seculo, Lisbon’s largest, if one wants further verification. Mary told of other events as related by the children that also came true, if one wants further verification.

I report this for one purpose, specifically for Protestants. One of the children, Lucia, asked about a relative by name who recently died. The Virgin Mother said that woman was in purgatory and would be there for a long time. Question: How can a person of normal intelligence and reason doubt the supernatural nature of this event? Question: How can anyone who accepts this miracle then doubt the other words Our Lady gave to these children, very specifically the mention of purgatory?

Yes, purgatory exists and many nominal or lukewarm Christians should be eternally grateful for that because such lazy or sinful behavior does not warrant heaven. And many non believers may rejoice if they find themselves there as well. It is a place of suffering, loneliness and regret, but there is also an incredible gratitude and joy knowing that one day each soul in purgatory will be allowed into heaven.

The evidence for purgatory is far greater than the Fatima account. I submit below some Biblical verses which Catholic teaching, in many cases, regards as references to purgatory or a state of purification. Consider them for yourselves.

=====================================================


Matthew 5:23-26
"Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. Reconcile with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid up the last penny.”

[Jesus is assuring us (“truly I say to you”) that we will pay (be imprisoned) for a portion our transgressions until we have paid the last penny if we do not forgive others or obey. The key word is UNTIL. It is clear that once we have paid for our sins, THEN we WILL be released from our prison. That is not Hell because Hell is eternal. This is not an earthly reference as many who are to be saved have died without fulfilling all the requirements this passage implies. This is referring to purgatory where you will be eventually released.]


Luke 12:45-48
"But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk: the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

[The one slave who was not as guilty because he was somewhat ignorant of the gravity of his sins will receive less lashes. Note, he will still be punished, but not as severely. This is clearly not talking about hell, it is about some punishment that is less than eternal. It is purgatory once again. Different degrees of punishment which is how many have described it. Also, to whom more has been given (i.e. knowledge, riches, revelation, opportunity, etc.) more will be required; otherwise something consequential results. ]


1 Corinthians 3:12-15
Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

[Saved, but still will suffer loss as yet through fire. Protestants can argue this is some earthly punishment, not an afterlife matter, but I, and the Catholic Church, say not so. This is so much better explained as a purgatory sentence. Purgatory is a cleansing fire.]


Matthew 12:32
“Whoever says anything against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever says anything against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

[To me this further indicates that certain sins will cause some to suffer punishment eternally, no doubt. However, more importantly, this indicates that there is forgiveness for some in the age to come. For who? Those in heaven? They need no more forgiveness? For those in hell? No, because hell is eternal and there is no forgiveness at that point. It is for those in purgatory in the age that still awaits them.]


Luke 7:47
“I tell you, that is why her many sins are forgiven --- because of her great love. Little is forgiven the one whose love is small. “

[To me, this points to a one having some sentence in Purgatory in the age to come. For those who forgave “little” on earth, God is saying he will forgive “little” when judging you. He’s not saying he will forgive “nothing”, but something. In other words, he is lessening your debt, not totally removing it, and not totally condemning either.]




+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


These passages above (and many others not posted here) are demanding more than just faith from us, more than just accepting Jesus as our Savior. To think we are allowed into heaven without anything more than just accepting some idea as truth, and then having license to live our life as wantonly as desired is an abomination. You may not be condemned for your carelessness, but you will be purified for it. “Nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom.” (Revelations 21:27)


Addendum:
Saint Frances of Rome (1384 – 1440) not only saw purgatory but visited it, witnessed the souls who suffered there, and told of its three regions. She also visited hell, saw its frightening torments, and reported of its horror, disorder, despair and eternal darkness. Of purgatory, she reported none of hell's finality, but instead told of divine hope and of souls that suffered greatly but were assisted by angels to withstand their torments.

Saint Frances further identified three separate areas of purgatory where souls had been placed in proportion to the time required to atone for their sins. Lower purgatory is filled with fire, though not a dark fire as in hell. Intermediate purgatory possesses three chambers containing either ice, boiling oil or molten metal. And she further related the existence of an upper purgatory where souls that are closest to deliverance suffer only the pain of loss.


From Arguments Against Purgatory Considered by Kevin Tierney by Kevin Tierney
“The concept of purgatory arose long after the Apostles.” I’d agree with this statement, if we change long after to long before. Jews have always prayed the “Kaddish.” This prayer, which reaffirms faith in God despite the mourner's loss, was thought to hasten the process of purification. So to claim the doctrine was invented long after the Apostles is utterly false. Granted, the Jews did not call it purgatory, but the basis is exactly the same. So the witness of this doctrine existed among the Jews long before the Apostles.


Addendum 2:
I am in the possession of pages and pages of documentations from saints, from visitors from purgatory to earth leaving visible signs and dictating manuscripts to pious visionaries. The books are spellbinding --- and surely true. But I do not see a reason to publish all that here, especially since I have enough trouble finding the time to speak to what I have posted already.

What a load of bullshit.

I didn't have to read but a few paragraphs to make that determination.

You said, " Yes, we may very well be saved by faith (accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior) but that does not mean we still may not have to be purified before we can enter heaven."

Where do is say in the Bible that purification is needed before entering the Kingdom of Heaven?

Then you correctly stated, Revelations says “nothing defiled shall enter the Kingdom." then you make the absurd claim that, "It should be obvious that is not in reference to those going to hell, but those who are saved, yet still with many stains of sin on their souls after they accepted Christ or for other reasons."

What is obvious is that those they do not go to heaven go to hell because they is no other option mentioned in the Bible.

Don't you think that something as important as something like "purgatory" it would be at least mentioned!?!?!

None of the scriptures you cited supports the existence of purgatory.

None!

 

[The Irish Ram]

[Jesus is assuring us (“truly I say to you&#8221 that we will pay (be imprisoned) for a portion our transgressions until we have paid the last penny if we do not forgive others or obey.

Tur, the Bible says, "study to show yourself approved". I colored the most important word in your statement.

The verse does not say we will pay for a % of our transgressions.

What that verse does say is:
If you have wronged your brother, go fix it. Even if you are sitting in church, get up and go ask for forgiveness and don't leave until you have made it well with the person you wronged. (A good reason not to wrong people to begin with).

And, if you want/expect forgiveness, then forgive. Don't want judged, don't judge. Period. It is a warning. You will be judged according to the extent you judge others. You are forgiven if you are forgiving.

St. Paul was well aware of his transgressions. Wanting to be completely forgiven and wanting to avoid being judged, he said he wouldn't even judge himself.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Then there's the lifetime of hell the molested victims of catholic priests must endure while the priests themselves vacation on a tropical island before being reassigned to new church just chock full of unmolested children.

Actually, for all we know, that new church might be reeling from the horrible actions of the previous child molester priest.

Nice for the priests that all they have to do is a couple of hail Mary's and they're good to go.

The poor kids? Like I said, its a lifetime of hell for them.

Stop judging Christ based on human actions. Instead ask yourself, "How many children did Christ molest"? If the answer is none, then it is the teaching of Christ that you need to follow, and let God deal with the sins of mankind.

HUH??

I didn't even mention "Christ". Why would I?
Where have I ever "judged" Christ? Why would I?

I don't live in LaLaLand of Magic Sky Fairies.

Feel free to actually read what I wrote and respond to it, though I doubt and of you "Christians" will because children just aren't very important to you.

You "christians" care only about fetuses and ONLY because you want more laws, bigger government to control more women.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I read what you wrote.
Children are important enough for me to take them in and raise them while their secular parents live in La La cocaine land, and La La jail......

We care about fetuses because we want them to grow into children. How important has your own life been to you? Would theirs be less important to them if we let them have their own opportunity?
You a big Gosnell fan are you? Sweep it under the rug so as not to stop the momentum of the rights of every one except the child?

Total number of abortions in the U.S. 1973-2011: 54.5 MILLION+
You aren't protecting anyone's rights. It a lifestyle decision for most. Too lazy for protection, and too busy for a baby right now. Abort the girls until a boy shows up in the womb. Abort the brown eyed and keep on aborting till you get a blue eyed. Rights my ass.
Does slitting the necks of puppies appeal to you too?

 

[Avatar4321]

What makes you think it's either the Catholics or the Protestants that are correct on the matter?

There is a space between our death and our resurrection. You can call this place purgatory if you choose. In this place there is a separation between the righteous and the wicked. The scriptures described this place as Paradise/Abraham's bosom, or prison/hell.

Before the death of Christ, there was a gulf between the areas. The righteous could not mingle with the wicked nor vice versa. Christ ripped down the gulf. He preached the Gospel of Deliverence to those who were once wicked in the time of Noah and the Flood. The Gospel was, is, and will be preached to the dead so that all those who had no opportunity to hear of Christ in the Flesh, will have a chance for Redemption.

The Lord will redeem all the dead who will come to Him. He has already paid the price for their Resurrection.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Avatar, I don't often disagree with you, but I do on this one. There is no space between our death and resurrection at all. Christ said that through him we go to the Father, not some holding cell. What would be the point?

At one time Abraham's bosom was necessary. It was filled with those that accepted God, but could not be resurrected until Christ broke through the barrier of death.
Christ already defeated death once, so there is no need to wait in an area for Him to show up and release us again.
There is no reason or need for an Abraham's bosom post cross. We go straight up now.

2 Corinthians 2:6-8 To be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.

 

[turzovka]

What makes you think it's either the Catholics or the Protestants that are correct on the matter?

The verses I just posted and about 20 others from the NT not posted here. They all speak to purgatory not some matter here on earth.

The voices of the saints who have either been granted visions of purgatory or taken there by Jesus or angels to witness it for themselves.

The Virgin Mary speaks of it on a number of occasions including the one I noted from Fatima. Of course no one (including science) can explain away Fatima. So they try to ignore it.

The handful of souls in purgatory that God allowed to come back to earth to testify. A French nun in the 19th century gives an extraordinary testimony she instructed a living nun and former housemate of hers to write down her account now called “An Unpublished Manuscript on Purgatory.” Brilliant.

There is a purgatory museum in the Vatican (small and hardly known) that contains artifacts of souls from purgatory who have visited the earth. One artifact is a hand burned into a table.
The fact it has been established as Catholic dogma since the 4th century or so and preached about by countless saints, popes and well-informed clergy.

Finally, the mercy and justice of God demands a place of purification before all these blind and clueless Christians and ambivalent do-gooders are allowed into the kingdom. (that includes me)

The Lord will redeem all the dead who will come to Him. He has already paid the price for their Resurrection.

I do not know what you are trying to say here? But if you think all will one day be in heaven, I beg to differ. What is the point of the trial on earth?

 

[turzovka]

There is a reason why only Catholics and no other Christians teach purgatory. It's because it is a Catholic concept, not found in the Bible. And what it means is that something other than Christ's pure blood is necessary to come to the Father.

Consider the thief on the cross. He didn't repent of his sins. In fact said that he deserved his fate. And yet Christ told the thief, today you shall be with me in Paradise". No cleansing room.
And Christ never baptized babies. Baptism is an individual, decision based activity. Babies can't make that decision.
Catholics came up with purgatory, as an alternative to their thinking that babies go to hell if they die before they are baptized, because to Catholics, only the baptized go to Heaven.
Again, consider the thief.

Baptism is not a prerequisite to Heaven, nor is purgatory. Christ alone is the way to the Father.

Here is the new view of the Catholic church. Which means either their dogma was wrong to begin with, or God has changed his mind and is now accepting unbaptized babies.
Since God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, it is the dogma that had to be brought back into compliance with the Bible.

The New Catholic doctrine:

Babies who die before being baptized will no longer be trapped in limbo following a decision by the Pope to abolish the concept from Roman Catholic teaching.
The decision was taken after Benedict XVI was presented with Vatican studies that said there were "serious" grounds that such souls could go to heaven, rather than exist between heaven and hell as they have done for almost 800 years.

The 41-page report by the Vatican's Theological Commission, which was compiled following a three-year study, said the concept was an "unduly restrictive view of salvation". However, it added that baptism was the only way to remove the stain of original sin - which according to the Catholic faith all are born with - and urged parents to continue to baptise their children.
"There is greater theological awareness today that God is merciful and wants all human beings to be saved. Grace has priority over sin, and the exclusion of innocent babies from heaven does not seem to reflect Christ's special love for the little ones,"

There is no greater theological awareness today. The theology has always remained constant. Catholic awareness of it is what was lacking for 800 years.

So did purgatory all of a sudden cease to exist with this revelation, or did the idea of purgatory cease to exist?
Can you find this waiting room cleansing in anything Christ taught? And speaking of what Christ taught, was God really opposed to eating fish on Fri. for awhile, and then warmed to the idea? And didn't Christ's mother preach until her death in Ephesus?

On the Catholic revision of the Bible, I'd say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That way you don't have to go back and change what should not have been altered to begin with.

What troubling passages in Scripture are you referring to? I'm sure the answer can be found without reworking what Christ said or accomplished.

We do not have a problem with the thief on the cross, what makes you think we do? We do not presume to be judge, nor do we judge on appearances. Nor does the Church say that some do not go directly to heaven. Recall the Lord gave the man who worked for one hour in the field the exact same reward as the ones who worked all day long. No one is attempting to quantify how much mercy God is allowed to meet out.

I do not need your account of Catholic history to tell me how the doctrine of purgatory came to be. I am quite comfortable with all the teachings of the Catholic Church which the Lord gave the authority to during the time of Peter. "Whatsover YOU (the Church) hold bound on earth shall be held bound in heaven." Too many do not want to acknowledge this --- or they come up with fanciful ways of defining who Jesus was referring to here.

All these protestants and pagans around here and everywhere else on the internet constantly ask the question “Where is purgatory in Scripture?” --- not that it has to to exist, mind you. So I gave a sample here of verses in Scripture that cry out for an interpretation. And so far, no one is willing. Instead I here about infant baptism, and “don’t call anyone father but father in heaven” and all these other diversions.

[Note: I see below not you have made some attempts. Thanks. My point above still remains by and large for those who respond or do not respond.]

And if the Catholic Church is the only church preaching purgatory, what of it? The fact is, the Catholic Church IS the only Church. The rest are referred to as “community of believers.” Sorry, but you do not get to go off and make your own religion and call it “the church.” Neither does Luther.

Purgatory existed before the time of the Incarnation if you want to ascribe to Jewish teaching, to answer one of your questions.

 

[turzovka]

Matthew 12:32
“Whoever says anything against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever says anything against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

The Holy Spirit is the power that convicts the heart to God. Those that have tasted the Spirit, and then make a conscious decision to turn away from that conviction to follow Satan or their own understanding, have sealed their own fate and destination, concerning their ability to be forgiven. It is a warning, not a threat. And no mention of a cleansing arena second chance.

Completely disagree. The Lord does not put words into Scripture just to throw us off. "In this age to come" is a very clear teaching that there is pardon in this age to come, but not for the sin against the Holy Spirit. Two lessons in one verse.

Luke 7:47
“I tell you, that is why her many sins are forgiven --- because of her great love. Little is forgiven the one whose love is small.

Because the one whose love of Christ is small doesn't feel the need to be forgiven. Read it in context.

Christ was referring to the lack love of the pharisees vs. the love of the woman sinner. The pharisees didn't feel the need to be forgiven. The woman's love for Christ was evident in spite of her need to be forgiven. Her faith and love for Christ saved her. The lack thereof, prevented the pharisees from receiving the gift Christ imparted on the woman. She received much. They received little. It has nothing to do with a limbo area that Christ never spoke of or taught about.

If you believe that Christ died for our sins, there is no need for a residual sin clinic.
The proof of that is in His last words, IT IS FINISHED, not, "you can move on to the next step".

Once again, you assign God the role to confuse us. Little is forgiven DOES NOT mean NOTHING is forgiven. It means you still have much to be purified from if you remain in that state. Do you really think people in hell have been forgiven "a little?" It is pointless. God is making references to purgatory without blaring it out. Why? Because far too many would become complacent if they knew they could get by with little effort and still make. Not unlike why God does not say exactly when Jesus would return. Because fools would party up until just before his return and then make their act of contrition. God does not take well to mockers.

It is finished DOES NOT mean we all get to go straight to heaven because we said that special little prayer of accepting Jesus as Savior. Read Matthew 25. The separation of the sheep and goats at the final judgment says NOTHING about faith. It is all about charity as to how we are judged. And that includes non-Christians, many who will also be granted a place in the kingdom.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

If there were no purgatory, what would Protestants say about the billions of people who never knew or accepted Jesus? Are they all condemned? Or is salvation not just about faith? Or do most go directly to heaven? Neither of those answers sounds quite right or appears to line up properly with the nature of God’s justice and mercy.

This immediate heaven or hell upon the moment of death is just too suddenly drastic, and horrifying. Especially when one begins to ponder what merits heaven and what merits hell. Is there an age of accountability for an 11 year old pagan? I mean, is there an exact day he becomes accountable for his soul and actions? One day, if he dies, he is save, and the next day, if he dies, he is condemned? This cannot be. Consequenltly, there are thousands or millions of scenarios of humanity where the situations of saved or unsaved are equally precarious and unsettling.

Yes, we may very well be saved by faith (accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior) but that does not mean we still may not have to be purified before we can enter heaven. Revelations says “nothing defiled shall enter the Kingdom.” It should be obvious that is not in reference to those going to hell, but those who are saved, yet still with many stains of sin on their souls after they accepted Christ or for other reasons. With a doctrine of purgatory, it allows for much, much more mercy from a merciful God. Far less people end up totally condemned.

The most astounding of all the Christian miracles in recent centuries was the miracle of the sun at Fatima, Portugal, October 13, 1917. Three young children who had been witnessing apparitions of the Virgin Mary prophesied three months in advance (July 13) that a great miracle would be performed by Our Lady for all those people present and doubting the children to see on October 13th. So on a very rainy, muddy gray Portugal day 70,000 people arrived at the Cova da Iria to see if the children were truly prophets. Soon after 12 noon the rain stopped and the gray skies were split in two by an incredible sun which was inexplicably viewable to the human eye without damage. It looked like a silver disc and started “dancing.” Bouncing up and down defying cosmic laws. Then it started spinning and shooting off rays of all kinds of colors across the sky and landscape changing the faces of the crowd to blue, yellow, green, etc. It carried on in this remarkable fashion for twelve minutes. For its grand finale the sun turned blood red grew in size and charged toward the earth greatly frightening all present. At the last moment it stopped and receded peacefully into the sky.

This was a miracle beyond doubt. There were no longer any skeptics present. All saw that which was astoundingly prophesied three months in advance to the day. The soaked muddy ground was bone dry after this occurrence as a secondary miracle. These facts were reported in the various newspapers including O Seculo, Lisbon’s largest, if one wants further verification. Mary told of other events as related by the children that also came true, if one wants further verification.

I report this for one purpose, specifically for Protestants. One of the children, Lucia, asked about a relative by name who recently died. The Virgin Mother said that woman was in purgatory and would be there for a long time. Question: How can a person of normal intelligence and reason doubt the supernatural nature of this event? Question: How can anyone who accepts this miracle then doubt the other words Our Lady gave to these children, very specifically the mention of purgatory?

Yes, purgatory exists and many nominal or lukewarm Christians should be eternally grateful for that because such lazy or sinful behavior does not warrant heaven. And many non believers may rejoice if they find themselves there as well. It is a place of suffering, loneliness and regret, but there is also an incredible gratitude and joy knowing that one day each soul in purgatory will be allowed into heaven.

The evidence for purgatory is far greater than the Fatima account. I submit below some Biblical verses which Catholic teaching, in many cases, regards as references to purgatory or a state of purification. Consider them for yourselves.

=====================================================


Matthew 5:23-26
"Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. Reconcile with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid up the last penny.”

[Jesus is assuring us (“truly I say to you&#8221 that we will pay (be imprisoned) for a portion our transgressions until we have paid the last penny if we do not forgive others or obey. The key word is UNTIL. It is clear that once we have paid for our sins, THEN we WILL be released from our prison. That is not Hell because Hell is eternal. This is not an earthly reference as many who are to be saved have died without fulfilling all the requirements this passage implies. This is referring to purgatory where you will be eventually released.]


Luke 12:45-48
"But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk: the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

[The one slave who was not as guilty because he was somewhat ignorant of the gravity of his sins will receive less lashes. Note, he will still be punished, but not as severely. This is clearly not talking about hell, it is about some punishment that is less than eternal. It is purgatory once again. Different degrees of punishment which is how many have described it. Also, to whom more has been given (i.e. knowledge, riches, revelation, opportunity, etc.) more will be required; otherwise something consequential results. ]


1 Corinthians 3:12-15
Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

[Saved, but still will suffer loss as yet through fire. Protestants can argue this is some earthly punishment, not an afterlife matter, but I, and the Catholic Church, say not so. This is so much better explained as a purgatory sentence. Purgatory is a cleansing fire.]


Matthew 12:32
“Whoever says anything against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever says anything against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

[To me this further indicates that certain sins will cause some to suffer punishment eternally, no doubt. However, more importantly, this indicates that there is forgiveness for some in the age to come. For who? Those in heaven? They need no more forgiveness? For those in hell? No, because hell is eternal and there is no forgiveness at that point. It is for those in purgatory in the age that still awaits them.]


Luke 7:47
“I tell you, that is why her many sins are forgiven --- because of her great love. Little is forgiven the one whose love is small. “

[To me, this points to a one having some sentence in Purgatory in the age to come. For those who forgave “little” on earth, God is saying he will forgive “little” when judging you. He’s not saying he will forgive “nothing”, but something. In other words, he is lessening your debt, not totally removing it, and not totally condemning either.]




+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


These passages above (and many others not posted here) are demanding more than just faith from us, more than just accepting Jesus as our Savior. To think we are allowed into heaven without anything more than just accepting some idea as truth, and then having license to live our life as wantonly as desired is an abomination. You may not be condemned for your carelessness, but you will be purified for it. “Nothing defiled shall enter the kingdom.” (Revelations 21:27)


Addendum:
Saint Frances of Rome (1384 – 1440) not only saw purgatory but visited it, witnessed the souls who suffered there, and told of its three regions. She also visited hell, saw its frightening torments, and reported of its horror, disorder, despair and eternal darkness. Of purgatory, she reported none of hell's finality, but instead told of divine hope and of souls that suffered greatly but were assisted by angels to withstand their torments.

Saint Frances further identified three separate areas of purgatory where souls had been placed in proportion to the time required to atone for their sins. Lower purgatory is filled with fire, though not a dark fire as in hell. Intermediate purgatory possesses three chambers containing either ice, boiling oil or molten metal. And she further related the existence of an upper purgatory where souls that are closest to deliverance suffer only the pain of loss.


From Arguments Against Purgatory Considered by Kevin Tierney by Kevin Tierney
“The concept of purgatory arose long after the Apostles.” I’d agree with this statement, if we change long after to long before. Jews have always prayed the “Kaddish.” This prayer, which reaffirms faith in God despite the mourner's loss, was thought to hasten the process of purification. So to claim the doctrine was invented long after the Apostles is utterly false. Granted, the Jews did not call it purgatory, but the basis is exactly the same. So the witness of this doctrine existed among the Jews long before the Apostles.


Addendum 2:
I am in the possession of pages and pages of documentations from saints, from visitors from purgatory to earth leaving visible signs and dictating manuscripts to pious visionaries. The books are spellbinding --- and surely true. But I do not see a reason to publish all that here, especially since I have enough trouble finding the time to speak to what I have posted already.

There is no such thing as pergatory. I did an indepth study of the Catholic saints many years ago. Although you have genuine miracles such as Helena Kowalska ( Faustina - the Apostle of Mercy ) whose book The Diary is now out of print but she prophesied WWII and the future protection God would afford her convent - keep in mind she was highly unpopular with her peers - same goes for Theresa of Liseaux who discipled the priest Maurice who wanted to be a martyr for christ and died from a tse fly bite ( does God have a sense of humor or what? ) because she led a sinless life or Theresa of Avila who came dangerously close to being accused of being a heretic as did John of the Cross who wrote Dark night of the Soul and was her friend - Guyon and Fenelon - both fell into danger for real christianity which spit out the lie of pergatory - paying 500 dollar indulgences to the pope to get their loved ones out of hell - what blasphemy! As if God could be paid off with a filthy lucre ransom to get a soul out of hell and he would want the RCC to be paid off???? HA! HA! YOU MUST BE KIDDING ME! I think someone must have taken that Italian godfather thing a step too far here, don't you????

Listen lady, you need to read your bible. Pergatory isn't in there. Were there true Catholic christians in the early church?
Yes, there were and many of them were burned at the stake or thrown in a dungeon so if you are looking for a historical comparison to where Islam is today? Look no further than the Roman Catholic Church.

The inquisition - the murder of Jews - forced conversions on Jews NONE OF IT IN THE BIBLE LADY - NOT A WORD OF IT - the Vatican went off on their own thing and once again? You guys are missing it. Your new pope just announced that the god of Islam is the God of the bible! WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. I suppose if your pope refuses to read the bible I cannot expect that you would bother either. Theresa of Avila had a vision of hell - John Bunyan had his own vision of hell - many of the mystics had visions of hell and then you have other saints who the RCC used to bolster their claim to the false doctrine of Pergatory which was designed to keep them in control over you. That is why Martin Luther confronted the pope - the common folks didn't have access to a bible and had no idea of the lies and heresy they were being taught by the RCC. ( had Luther not been in friendship to a King the pope would have executed him for it ) You cannot buy your way out of hell. It isn't happening so believe John 3:16 and be saved. - Jeremiah

I am not referring to the early church - that Rome used to entertain their gladiators and lions with - I am speaking of the early christians who were massacred by the Roman Catholic Church because they feared the truth of the Gospel would be revealed and they would be out of one heck of a lucrative business! The RCC have been merchandizing the gospel since day one. How do they justify a Vatican full of Gold - heaping up treasures in the last day? That money is going to testify against the RCC just as the book Of James warns. Read up. You are in for a rude awakening, Lady.

 

[turzovka]

[Jesus is assuring us (“truly I say to you”) that we will pay (be imprisoned) for a portion our transgressions until we have paid the last penny if we do not forgive others or obey.

Tur, the Bible says, "study to show yourself approved". I colored the most important word in your statement.

The verse does not say we will pay for a % of our transgressions.

What that verse does say is:
If you have wronged your brother, go fix it. Even if you are sitting in church, get up and go ask for forgiveness and don't leave until you have made it well with the person you wronged. (A good reason not to wrong people to begin with).

And, if you want/expect forgiveness, then forgive. Don't want judged, don't judge. Period. It is a warning. You will be judged according to the extent you judge others. You are forgiven if you are forgiving.

St. Paul was well aware of his transgressions. Wanting to be completely forgiven and wanting to avoid being judged, he said he wouldn't even judge himself.

Sorry, it says much more than that, even if I accede to some of your translation.

It says you will be held in prison UNTIL you have paid the last penny. UNTIL clearly implies once you have have paid the last penny you will be released from prison. That is not hell. That is purgatory. In no way, is this prison on earth where everyone who makes to heaven (ultimately) has suffered or paid for their many transgressions in full.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Matthew 12:32
“Whoever says anything against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever says anything against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

The Holy Spirit is the power that convicts the heart to God. Those that have tasted the Spirit, and then make a conscious decision to turn away from that conviction to follow Satan or their own understanding, have sealed their own fate and destination, concerning their ability to be forgiven. It is a warning, not a threat. And no mention of a cleansing arena second chance.

Completely disagree. The Lord does not put words into Scripture just to throw us off. "In this age to come" is a very clear teaching that there is pardon in this age to come, but not for the sin against the Holy Spirit. Two lessons in one verse.

Luke 7:47
“I tell you, that is why her many sins are forgiven --- because of her great love. Little is forgiven the one whose love is small.

Because the one whose love of Christ is small doesn't feel the need to be forgiven. Read it in context.

Christ was referring to the lack love of the pharisees vs. the love of the woman sinner. The pharisees didn't feel the need to be forgiven. The woman's love for Christ was evident in spite of her need to be forgiven. Her faith and love for Christ saved her. The lack thereof, prevented the pharisees from receiving the gift Christ imparted on the woman. She received much. They received little. It has nothing to do with a limbo area that Christ never spoke of or taught about.

If you believe that Christ died for our sins, there is no need for a residual sin clinic.
The proof of that is in His last words, IT IS FINISHED, not, "you can move on to the next step".

Once again, you assign God the role to confuse us. Little is forgiven DOES NOT mean NOTHING is forgiven. It means you still have much to be purified from if you remain in that state. Do you really think people in hell have been forgiven "a little?" It is pointless. God is making references to purgatory without blaring it out. Why? Because far too many would become complacent if they knew they could get by with little effort and still make. Not unlike why God does not say exactly when Jesus would return. Because fools would party up until just before his return and then make their act of contrition. God does not take well to mockers.

It is finished DOES NOT mean we all get to go straight to heaven because we said that special little prayer of accepting Jesus as Savior. Read Matthew 25. The separation of the sheep and goats at the final judgment says NOTHING about faith. It is all about charity as to how we are judged. And that includes non-Christians, many who will also be granted a place in the kingdom.

I don't know where you got this false teaching from but it is most definitely a false teaching. Jesus said there would be many false teachers in the end times. God warns us in his book - My people perish for lack of knowledge. What knowledge is he speaking about? He is speaking about the knowledge of His Word. You are perishing because you do not know Him. You have a form of religion but lack the power of God and the knowledge of what His word says.

What you are doing is adding to His Words. God never mentioned Pergatory. Anything in the New Testament can be confirmed by the Old Testament and the Old Testament does not speak of a pergatory that one can buy their way out of through the roman catholic church - paying the pope - the bible never teaches us that you can pay the Roman Catholic church 5000 dollars for an anullment on your 3rd marriage yet they did it for my brother in law - the Roman Catholic Church isn't following the bible and doesn't teach the bible.

It teaches a false doctrine of praying to statues, Mary - who had other children and was no longer a virgin - hello! Seriously you need to read your bible and stop misleading people. You can end up in hell for that. You should read the last chapter of the bible which warns people such as you not to add or take away from Gods words. I'd listen if I were you. - Jeri note** you will notice the true saints of the RCC all had a relationship with Jesus Christ. They obeyed the RCC because they had taken a vow to do so but they knew the RCC was in error and hoped by their holy example they would awaken them. Unfortunately that was not to be. It remains a doctrine of error to this very day. - Jeri