Zone1 No one "is" saved. Some are BEING saved or WILL be saved in the future

[buttercup]

Wow, this is incredibly hypocritical.

You are accusing Me of misapplying a verse and yet nowhere in that psg does it mention the Last Days.. unless I have forgotten

Did you skip over verse 3?

"Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

All you have to is read the entire passage, going back a few paragraphs, as opposed to only verse 13.

That said, I think it's important to know that sometimes the scriptures have layers of meaning… In other words, one passage can have more than one meaning. I read a commentary on that passage and that's what the commentator was saying, that it was talking about the persecution at that time, but also at the same time it was a prophecy about the last days.

The bottom line is, it's not saying that salvation is something you have to earn. It's just about persecution and true saved Christians enduring to the end, in the face of the persecution and the dangers that are ahead.

 

[buttercup]

she doesnt have the Spirit, thus cannot understand scripture.

Are you sure misery is a she? I thought he was a he, lol.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No one "is" saved. Some are BEING saved or WILL be saved in the future
​

Even before I studied my Faith, a project that began many years ago and continues, it always sounded like fingernails on a chalkboard to hear someone ask: Are you saved?

Salvation is a process that ends in death, and not even then if the person ends up in Purgatory and 99% of us do, according to saints and (other) theologians. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" we are told in Philippians 2:12

There are many scriptures that say "will be saved." I will try to find them but you can find them as easily as I can.

Here's one from memory: "He who endures until the end WILL BE SAVED" (emphasis mine)

So we see that: Even enduring to the very end with Christ does not mean you ARE saved, but that some time in the future you will be. "Will be" is future - tense, not present-tense.

(another Purgatory affirming Scripture)

So, 99% of people got to purgatory, what's the point of even trying then?

 

[ninja007]

Are you sure misery is a she? I thought he was a he, lol.

irish says she?

 

[1miseryindex]

Did you skip over verse 3?

"Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

All you have to is read the entire passage, going back a few paragraphs, as opposed to only verse 13.

That said, I think it's important to know that sometimes the scriptures have layers of meaning… In other words, one passage can have more than one meaning. I read a commentary on that passage and that's what the commentator was saying, that it was talking about the persecution at that time, but also at the same time it was a prophecy about the last days.

The bottom line is, it's not saying that salvation is something you have to earn. It's just about persecution and true saved Christians enduring to the end, in the face of the persecution and the dangers that are ahead.

I think this scripture is very clear

He who endures until the end WILL BE SAVED

not IS saved

Salvation is a process. Neither doing massive good works NOR simply believing are sufficient

 

[1miseryindex]

So, 99% of people got to purgatory, what's the point of even trying then?

Actually, thanks for bringing up an "inarticulation" of mine

I meant to say that 99% of those bound for Heaven go to Purgatory, DEFINITELY NOT 99% of humans. Jesus said that FEW find the narrow way

Canonized saints have said (in so many words) EXCEEDINGLY few

Looking around at current events and etc... one can certainly see how this is so

 

[The Irish Ram]

I thought I read a comment of hers about not having a husband, or if she had a husband. If she does, I'll bet he's living in the attic. lol.

Proverbs 21:9 It is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife.​

 

[frigidweirdo]

Actually, thanks for bringing up an "inarticulation" of mine

I meant to say that 99% of those bound for Heaven go to Purgatory, DEFINITELY NOT 99% of humans. Jesus said that FEW find the narrow way

Canonized saints have said (in so many words) EXCEEDINGLY few

Looking around at current events and etc... one can certainly see how this is so

I don't understand. How are they bound for heaven if they're on their way to purgatory? Surely they're bound for purgatory.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

and not even then if the person ends up in Purgatory and 99% of us do, according to saints and (other) theologians

But not according to the scriptures.
Catholics follow men, not the Word of God

 

[The Irish Ram]

I think this scripture is very clear

He who endures until the end WILL BE SAVED

not IS saved

Salvation is a process. Neither doing massive good works NOR simply believing are sufficient

Nope. You are saved when you accept Christ as your Savior. <the one who saves. Your name is written in God's book of Life the instant you give your life to His Son.
Salvation isn't a process. And Christ doesn't need any help in paying our debt. It is paid in full at the cross and anything we do to add to His work just disappoints. You are calling God's Son's work inadequate, and inferior to your own works, which God compares to filthy rags.

1Corinth. 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God

Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast

While misery tries to work her way there, the rest of us can rest and thank Christ for His holiness, because it is His record that we exchanged our sins for on that cross.

Matthew 11:28 Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls​

 

[Blackrook]

I don't think anything I do is "filthy rags" to God.

That's pure bullshit.

 

[ninja007]

I think this scripture is very clear

He who endures until the end WILL BE SAVED

not IS saved

Salvation is a process. Neither doing massive good works NOR simply believing are sufficient

sanctification is a process, not salvation/justification. catholics are on their way to hell.

 

[ninja007]

I don't think anything I do is "filthy rags" to God.

That's pure bullshit.

Isaiah 64:6
​

King James Version
​

​

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


take it up with God. HE said it.

 

[hadit]

No one "is" saved. Some are BEING saved or WILL be saved in the future
​

Even before I studied my Faith, a project that began many years ago and continues, it always sounded like fingernails on a chalkboard to hear someone ask: Are you saved?

Salvation is a process that ends in death, and not even then if the person ends up in Purgatory and 99% of us do, according to saints and (other) theologians. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" we are told in Philippians 2:12

There are many scriptures that say "will be saved." I will try to find them but you can find them as easily as I can.

Here's one from memory: "He who endures until the end WILL BE SAVED" (emphasis mine)

So we see that: Even enduring to the very end with Christ does not mean you ARE saved, but that some time in the future you will be. "Will be" is future - tense, not present-tense.

(another Purgatory affirming Scripture)

You may not be saved already, but I am. I have a lot of growing to do and look forward to the day when I am glorified with Christ, but I know for sure that day will come, no matter how much I accomplish between now and then.

 

[buttercup]

I think this scripture is very clear

He who endures until the end WILL BE SAVED

not IS saved

Salvation is a process. Neither doing massive good works NOR simply believing are sufficient

That is absolutely false. Salvation / justification is not a process… as others have already told you, SANCTIFICATION is a process.

And you plucked that one verse out and misinterpreted it because you completely ignored the surrounding context.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I don't think anything I do is "filthy rags" to God.

That's pure bullshit.

Compared to God's righteousness, your works are inadequate. His righteousness gives us rest, not work:
Psalm 62: 1-2 My soul finds rest in God. Truly my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from him.

Here is why:

Romans 4:5-8 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of DEBT. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.​

While you work to outpace your sin, hoping you have done enough, and then have to go to the purgatory workhouse to continue to wrestle with your inadequacies, how much better it is to believe that God doesn't blame you to begin with...

 

[ninja007]

That is absolutely false. Salvation / justification is not a process… as others have already told you, SANCTIFICATION is a process.

And you plucked that one verse out and misinterpreted it because you completely ignored the surrounding context.

sadly, misery might just be finding out first hand the rcc lied.

 

[The Irish Ram]

sadly, misery might just be finding out first hand the rcc lied.

Well I certainly hope that's not the case. And I'm not sure that religious dogma would stand in the way of misery's eternity in God's presence. If misery believes that Christ is the Son of God, and that He died for her, then I wouldn't think misery's denominational inaccuracies would be enough to keep her out of Heaven.
My Dad used Art Rooney as an example. Art always had a cigar in his mouth and went to church to pray every day on his way to the Steelers' locker room.
Dad said that St. Peter will tell Art to put his rosary and cigar down, there at the pearly gate, and come on in.
My Catholic friends love their neighbors, and are always there to help. They love the Lord, and they are such good people, I know exactly where they are going to spend eternity, doing the same thing loving and helping. I love them all.

 

[ninja007]

Well I certainly hope that's not the case. And I'm not sure that religious dogma would stand in the way of misery's eternity in God's presence. If misery believes that Christ is the Son of God, and that He died for her, then I wouldn't think misery's denominational inaccuracies would be enough to keep her out of Heaven.
My Dad used Art Rooney as an example. Art always had a cigar in his mouth and went to church to pray every day on his way to the Steelers' locker room.
Dad said that St. Peter will tell Art to put his rosary and cigar down, there at the pearly gate, and come on in.
My Catholic friends love their neighbors, and are always there to help. They love the Lord, and they are such good people, I know exactly where they are going to spend eternity, doing the same thing loving and helping. I love them all.

misery does not believe Jesus' death and free gift is enough; so no, shes not going- or he. its very simple actually. she/he is trusting in works; thats an insult to Jesus.

 

[ninja007]

Compared to God's righteousness, your works are inadequate. His righteousness gives us rest, not work:
Psalm 62: 1-2 My soul finds rest in God. Truly my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from him.

Here is why:

Romans 4:5-8 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of DEBT. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.​

While you work to outpace your sin, hoping you have done enough, and then have to go to the purgatory workhouse to continue to wrestle with your inadequacies, how much better it is to believe that God doesn't blame you to begin with...

catholics absolutely will not go to heaven; believing in works to get you saved certainly will send you to hell.