The biggest mistake the US made

[Unkotare]

The atom bombs were just another weapon in the arsenal of the winning side. That is all. The number killed was far less then the atrocities committed by the Japanese in their imperial conquests.

The following are a few of the atrocities of the Japanese. Put yourself in the position of the marine that is to storm the beaches of Japan. Put yourself in the position of those who would need to make such decisions. Yes, a lot of people died by one bomb but the fire bombing of Tokyo and Dresden killed more.

Think about what you would think of a people who would commit the rape of Nanking yet are willing to fly a plane to their own death.

Laha Airfield Massacre This ghoulish event, which killed more than 300 Australian and Dutch POWs,

Alexandra Hospital Massacre Just a day before the British surrendered Singapore, Japanese soldiers stormed Alexandra Military Hospital and slaughtered its occupants, including the medical staff and patients. Even those undergoing surgery were not spared.

Palawan Massacre In another case of POW massacre, the Japanese stationed in Palawan Island, Philippines tried to kill all their American prisoners after wrongly assuming Allied forces had invaded. After driving the prisoners into makeshift air raid shelters, the Japanese burned them alive.

Japanese Occupation Of Nauru During their occupation of the island, the Japanese committed a string of atrocities, and a few stood out for their brutality.

Akikaze Executions In what could be argued as an uncharacteristic yet brutal incident, Japanese forces executed a boat of German civilians suspected of spying for the Allies.

Indian Ocean Raid Massacre In the final raid conducted by Japanese warships in the Indian Ocean, the heavy cruiser Tone sank the British merchant vessel Behar and captured 108 survivors. Captain Haruo Mayuzumi relayed his ship’s success to his superior Rear Admiral Naomasa Sakonju, expecting praise. Instead, the admiral berated the captain for bringing along useless prisoners. He ordered their execution.

Sook Ching Massacre Following the Fall of Singapore, the Japanese wanted to mop up all remaining resistance, especially among the Chinese living in the region. To accomplish this, the notorious Japanese secret police Kempetai initiated Operation Sook Ching (“purge through cleansing”) in February 1942.

I-8 One of Japan’s most notorious submarines, the I-8, is best remembered for sinking two Allied ships and for the crew’s terrible conduct in the aftermath. On March 26, 1944, the sub spotted and sank the Dutch freighter Tsijalak hundreds of miles off the coast of Colombo, Sri Lanka. The Japanese took 103 survivors onboard and massacred them with swords and sledgehammers. They then bound those still alive and left them on deck as the submarine dove below. Only five survived the ordeal.

The Death RailwayAs their cargo ships were vulnerable to Allied raids, the Japanese sought an alternative supply line to maintain their forces in Burma. This culminated in the construction of a 415-kilometer (300 mi) railway between Burma and Thailand. The railway used 60,000 Allied POWs and 200,000 Asian conscripts for slave labor. During the year-long construction, thousands died from the grueling working conditions and inhumane treatment. A total of 13,000 POWS along with approximately 80,000–100,000 Asian laborers died constructing the railway.

The Massacre Of Manila Early in 1945, General Yamashita planned for his men to evacuate Manila and fight in the countryside. However, two Japanese admirals ignored his order and committed their men to a final stand inside the city. When the Americans arrived, the Japanese forces realized that they faced certain death and vented their rage on the hapless civilians trapped inside their lines. For weeks, the Japanese raped, pillaged, and murdered. Aside from the bayonets and beheadings, they machine-gunned captives and set fire to buildings with people trapped inside. The Americans ceased artillery strikes so the Japanese could surrender, but the Japanese instead continued their rampage.

10 Japanese Atrocities From World War II - Listverse

Rape of Nanking In December of 1937, the Japanese Imperial Army marched into China's capital city of Nanking and proceeded to murder 300,000 out of 600,000 civilians and soldiers in the city. The six weeks of carnage would become known as the Rape of Nanking and represented the single worst atrocity during the World War II era in either the European or Pacific theaters of war.

The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century Rape of Nanking 1937-38

So, we dropped the atomic bombs out of revenge for other countries?

Point missed. The atrocities that the Japanese committed created the opinion that they were less then civilized.

No, active propaganda created that. Propaganda so effective many condoned fdr's concentration camps.

The Bataan Death March was not propaganda

Who said it was?

 

[IcebergSlim]

Sorry, this story it is not current events, but I think such things do not have time estimation.

Today the 9 th of August 2015, we live our lives, but 241 000 people had died 70 years ago for no reason. They thought that the WW II was over ... but not for them.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
America believes that its internal and external policies is always right. And this is the biggest of its mistakes. Decided on the genocide in favor of its geopolitical interests - the top of inhumanity. This blood will never wash off from the US history, and the fact that even after 70 years, the US is not ready to admit that committed a terrible mistake says only one thing - the US continues to erroneous and selfish policy, both domestically and abroad.

I am so sorry, I thought we were confident enough to admit the things we had done.

The biggest mistake the U.S. made was not letting Patton invade Russia and not dropping a nuke on Moscow. That's why the world is so screwed up today.

Yeah, Hoss.......Invading Russia has repeatedly proven to be a savvy strategery......

While we speak, Russia has nukes aimed and programed to hit every major city in the U.S. and thousands of other targets.

And this would be different had Patton engaged in a vain crusade following in the footsteps of Charles XII, Napoleon, and Hitler how, exactly?

Head into Russia in early spring. Besides, all of Russia's arms, equipment and supplies were provided by the US. That kept them in the war.

And you figure they would not use them to defend themselves against Patton?

Besides...

Soviet Yakovlev Yak-3
In the end it was the opinion of pilots that matter. When the German pilots were told to "avoid combat below five thousand metres with Yakovlev fighters lacking an oil cooler intake beneath the nose! ", it is obvious the Germans were terrified of this plane. When it came to most other planes they had a plan of attack which was effective, but against the Yak 3 it was simply: 'RUN! ' Additionally when the French pilots serving with the Soviet Air Force were offered any British, American or Russian airplane to fly and chose the Yak-3 over all others. Albeit I don't know if these pilots were the best ever, they may have developed bias for the plane they few in the soviet front, but it is still a great testimonial for the plane. Because of these reasons I will always consider the Yak-3 to be the best fighter of WW2.
Regarded as the best dogfighter on the Eastern front. Tight turn radius (it could turn inside most fighters) and highly maneuverable.
TOP SPEED: 412MPH. (428 @ 20k feet)
ENGINE: 1,600HP V-12 radial.
ARMAMENT: 1-20MM cannon. 2-. 50cal guns all in the nose.
RANGE: 558 miles.

By the end of the war, the Russians were also producing some of the best tanks in the world...

 

[IcebergSlim]

The biggest mistake the U.S. made was not letting Patton invade Russia and not dropping a nuke on Moscow. That's why the world is so screwed up today.

I suspect the good General lost his life for that stance

An old family friend witnessed the collision that injured Patton and he said it was definitely intentional. I believe him. And his actual death was also suspicious. People still think Russia was behind both incidents

Read Killing Patton, I had thought before it was an assassination but after reading it there is no doubt in my mind

By noted revisionist historian Bill O'Reilly?

That's the one, well written and researched.

yeah......Bill's got a reputation for that kind of thing..

Robert H. Patton, the general's grandson and author of The Pattons: A Personal History of an American Family, said both research and family lore discredit O'Reilly's version of events.


"Generally growing up our sense was the general's widow was satisfied that it was accidental," he said. "She was persuaded that it was an accident."


Robert Patton said his grandfather suffered from Phlebitis due to a blood clot he developed from a fractured leg between World War I and World War II. He said after he was paralyzed in the auto accident it worsened and eventually led to his death.


"The theory is he either died naturally or from a blood clot," the younger Patton said. "You're paralyzed, and that is what happens. My grandmother was with him constantly in the hospital."

Historians Rip O Reilly s New Patton Book Blog Media Matters for America

 

[Freewill]

The biggest mistake the U.S. made was not letting Patton invade Russia and not dropping a nuke on Moscow. That's why the world is so screwed up today.

Yeah, Hoss.......Invading Russia has repeatedly proven to be a savvy strategery......

While we speak, Russia has nukes aimed and programed to hit every major city in the U.S. and thousands of other targets.

And this would be different had Patton engaged in a vain crusade following in the footsteps of Charles XII, Napoleon, and Hitler how, exactly?

Head into Russia in early spring. Besides, all of Russia's arms, equipment and supplies were provided by the US. That kept them in the war.

And you figure they would not use them to defend themselves against Patton?

Besides...

Soviet Yakovlev Yak-3
In the end it was the opinion of pilots that matter. When the German pilots were told to "avoid combat below five thousand metres with Yakovlev fighters lacking an oil cooler intake beneath the nose! ", it is obvious the Germans were terrified of this plane. When it came to most other planes they had a plan of attack which was effective, but against the Yak 3 it was simply: 'RUN! ' Additionally when the French pilots serving with the Soviet Air Force were offered any British, American or Russian airplane to fly and chose the Yak-3 over all others. Albeit I don't know if these pilots were the best ever, they may have developed bias for the plane they few in the soviet front, but it is still a great testimonial for the plane. Because of these reasons I will always consider the Yak-3 to be the best fighter of WW2.
Regarded as the best dogfighter on the Eastern front. Tight turn radius (it could turn inside most fighters) and highly maneuverable.
TOP SPEED: 412MPH. (428 @ 20k feet)
ENGINE: 1,600HP V-12 radial.
ARMAMENT: 1-20MM cannon. 2-. 50cal guns all in the nose.
RANGE: 558 miles.

By the end of the war, the Russians were also producing some of the best tanks in the world...

Funny that I used to play a fighter game on line and I would pick the Yak and then go hunting for P38s to shoot down.

 

[Oliver King]

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets. Dropping the bomb was definitely the right thing to do in order to save American lives.

It was right thing to do in order to show to the whole world that the US has a nuclear weapons and to express its' imperialist ambitions. That's it. It is not only about destroying two cities and killed certain amount of people... it is also about catastrophic consequences for another generation, environment and so on.

 

[xdangerousxdavex]

right thing to show the military power
wrong thing to destroy the whole cities populated with civilians only, without any military facilities and servicemen

 

[charwin95]

If not the biggest mistake, certainly at the top. America, that had none of the horror of WWII visited on its mainland, seems to be blithe about what was inflicted upon others, especially innocent women, children, elderly and dissident elements in enemy territory.

Can you tell that to those countries that Japan invaded? They killed countless innocent civilians including babies.
Dropping those bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the right thing to do. If not for those 2 bombs Japanese will continue their brutal and horror invasions to their neighbors.

 

[there4eyeM]

Japan was no longer capable of industrial or military enterprise. The bombs were a punctuation point at the end of an already won war. Worshiping at the national altar and repeating the incantation that this was a good thing is delusional.

 

[regent]

Too bad some of these posters weren't around to explain to Japan they had lost the war and to give it up. The bombs finally got Hirohito's attention and he suggested the Japanese endure the unendurable and a couple days later Japan surrendered. Many of us continue to think the Japanese were similar to western cultures, and when they saw they could not win, were beaten, didn't have a chance, surrendered. But Japan had a different culture at that time, some in and out of their military believing they should fight to the end.

 

[there4eyeM]

"The sins of the fathers..."

 

[Unkotare]

Many of us continue to think the Japanese were similar to western cultures, and when they saw they could not win, were beaten, didn't have a chance, surrendered.....

Military.com Content

 

[bodecea]

.

The biggest mistake the U.S. made was not letting Patton invade Russia and not dropping a nuke on Moscow. That's why the world is so screwed up today.[/QUOTE]

Just to play a game, we could say bombing Moscow would not have been morally worse than what was bombed.
Japan was out of the war and just waiting for the last holdouts to admit it.
IF...Moscow, Stalin and Soviet centralized control had suddenly disappeared, the US would have stood astride a world without enemies of any consequence, the greatest armed force ever assembled, and total discretion about where and how to apply its power. Invading Russia would have been unnecessary and, in fact, a tremendous error. In the unlikely event that the Red Army had the co-ordination and will to try to continue to fight, it would have been better to let them attack and destroy them on familiar ground with their logistics extended, rather than the other way. Or, draw them into a massive concentration and nuke that. Either way, populations and US troops would be spared and war ended fairly rapidly.
There was, of course, no way any of that could have happened. Thinking was just too limited. That is why the mistake of bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was made, too.

Ok, using that scenerio....how many back up nuclear weapons did we have right after Japan's surrender to use on the Soviets?

 

[Unkotare]

.

The biggest mistake the U.S. made was not letting Patton invade Russia and not dropping a nuke on Moscow. That's why the world is so screwed up today.

Just to play a game, we could say bombing Moscow would not have been morally worse than what was bombed.
Japan was out of the war and just waiting for the last holdouts to admit it.
IF...Moscow, Stalin and Soviet centralized control had suddenly disappeared, the US would have stood astride a world without enemies of any consequence, the greatest armed force ever assembled, and total discretion about where and how to apply its power. Invading Russia would have been unnecessary and, in fact, a tremendous error. In the unlikely event that the Red Army had the co-ordination and will to try to continue to fight, it would have been better to let them attack and destroy them on familiar ground with their logistics extended, rather than the other way. Or, draw them into a massive concentration and nuke that. Either way, populations and US troops would be spared and war ended fairly rapidly.
There was, of course, no way any of that could have happened. Thinking was just too limited. That is why the mistake of bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was made, too.

Ok, using that scenerio....how many back up nuclear weapons did we have right after Japan's surrender to use on the Soviets?[/QUOTE]

After the bombing of Nagasaki, we had NONE. It would take a few weeks to finish production of more.

 

[regent]

Many of us continue to think the Japanese were similar to western cultures, and when they saw they could not win, were beaten, didn't have a chance, surrendered.....

Military.com Content

Not a skirmish, nor a battle, but a war. Are you suggesting the Japanese quit too soon and should have continued the war because they had a chance of winning? We surrendered on Bataan because we had no chance of winning.

 

[there4eyeM]

The scenario presented was based upon not having wasted bombs on non-strategic targets.
There were three bombs.
One test.
One on Moscow.
One in reserve.
No bombs on babies.
As I understood it, a fourth bomb would have taken months to make, but no one else was even within years of making any..

 

[zaangalewa]

It was a tough decision but in the end more lives were saved than lost. An invasion of Japan would have been a blood bath

In Japan lived about 75 million people and in Hieroshima and Nagasaki died about 150000 people. In the USA today live about 300 million people and in 9/11 died about 3000 people. 300/75=4 and 150000/3000=50. 4*50=200. So in case of war with the USA - for example because we give asylum to Mr. Snowden - we had to take care to produce 200 times a 9/11 in the USA and this will save a lot of lives. Good to know.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Head into Russia in early spring. Besides, all of Russia's arms, equipment and supplies were provided by the US. That kept them in the war.

Drop Fat Man on the Kremlin. Stalin had such a stranglehold on the government that taking him out could easily have paralyzed EVERYTHING for several days (or longer).

 

[Jarlaxle]

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets.

5 of every 6 killed by the bombs was civilian.

Nonetheless...by the standards of the day, both cities WERE valid military targets. Hiroshima was a major port and industrial city. Nagasaki was the site of their largest torpedo factory.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The biggest mistake the U.S. made was not letting Patton invade Russia and not dropping a nuke on Moscow. That's why the world is so screwed up today.

Yeah, Hoss.......Invading Russia has repeatedly proven to be a savvy strategery......

While we speak, Russia has nukes aimed and programed to hit every major city in the U.S. and thousands of other targets.

And this would be different had Patton engaged in a vain crusade following in the footsteps of Charles XII, Napoleon, and Hitler how, exactly?

Head into Russia in early spring. Besides, all of Russia's arms, equipment and supplies were provided by the US. That kept them in the war.

And you figure they would not use them to defend themselves against Patton?

Besides...

Soviet Yakovlev Yak-3
In the end it was the opinion of pilots that matter. When the German pilots were told to "avoid combat below five thousand metres with Yakovlev fighters lacking an oil cooler intake beneath the nose! ", it is obvious the Germans were terrified of this plane. When it came to most other planes they had a plan of attack which was effective, but against the Yak 3 it was simply: 'RUN! ' Additionally when the French pilots serving with the Soviet Air Force were offered any British, American or Russian airplane to fly and chose the Yak-3 over all others. Albeit I don't know if these pilots were the best ever, they may have developed bias for the plane they few in the soviet front, but it is still a great testimonial for the plane. Because of these reasons I will always consider the Yak-3 to be the best fighter of WW2.
Regarded as the best dogfighter on the Eastern front. Tight turn radius (it could turn inside most fighters) and highly maneuverable.
TOP SPEED: 412MPH. (428 @ 20k feet)
ENGINE: 1,600HP V-12 radial.
ARMAMENT: 1-20MM cannon. 2-. 50cal guns all in the nose.
RANGE: 558 miles.

By the end of the war, the Russians were also producing some of the best tanks in the world...

As is the case with LOTS of Soviet military equipment, reputation (greatly) exceeds reality. The Yak-3 was 20MPH slower than a Fw-190 "Dora" model (about the same as a 190a), 30MPH slower than a P-51D (which was, itself, slower than the more-powerful P-51H), 30MPH slower than a P-47D, 40MPH slower than an F4U-4, and about the same as a Spitfire XI. Other than the Spitfire, the best fighters of the war were the speed fighters, not the turn fighters!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yeah, Hoss.......Invading Russia has repeatedly proven to be a savvy strategery......

While we speak, Russia has nukes aimed and programed to hit every major city in the U.S. and thousands of other targets.

And this would be different had Patton engaged in a vain crusade following in the footsteps of Charles XII, Napoleon, and Hitler how, exactly?

Head into Russia in early spring. Besides, all of Russia's arms, equipment and supplies were provided by the US. That kept them in the war.

And you figure they would not use them to defend themselves against Patton?

Besides...

Soviet Yakovlev Yak-3
In the end it was the opinion of pilots that matter. When the German pilots were told to "avoid combat below five thousand metres with Yakovlev fighters lacking an oil cooler intake beneath the nose! ", it is obvious the Germans were terrified of this plane. When it came to most other planes they had a plan of attack which was effective, but against the Yak 3 it was simply: 'RUN! ' Additionally when the French pilots serving with the Soviet Air Force were offered any British, American or Russian airplane to fly and chose the Yak-3 over all others. Albeit I don't know if these pilots were the best ever, they may have developed bias for the plane they few in the soviet front, but it is still a great testimonial for the plane. Because of these reasons I will always consider the Yak-3 to be the best fighter of WW2.
Regarded as the best dogfighter on the Eastern front. Tight turn radius (it could turn inside most fighters) and highly maneuverable.
TOP SPEED: 412MPH. (428 @ 20k feet)
ENGINE: 1,600HP V-12 radial.
ARMAMENT: 1-20MM cannon. 2-. 50cal guns all in the nose.
RANGE: 558 miles.

By the end of the war, the Russians were also producing some of the best tanks in the world...

Funny that I used to play a fighter game on line and I would pick the Yak and then go hunting for P38s to shoot down.

Nice trick...considering that the P-38 is faster than a Yak3 and will fly 10,000' higher (an astounding 45,000')!