The Bible's archaic, arbitrary code of ethics is ineffective in the real world.

[Damaged Eagle]

This is different from the vague arbitrary rules that seem to whimsically change with the progressive social justice warriors in what manner?

*****CHUCKLE*****

He said don't change the subject. He pretty much nailed it. Christianity may have positives but they really don't outweigh the negatives.

Do I want to try and convince my brother and dad there's no god? No but I hope my nephews wake up and same for everyone's kids in the future. We're better than this

So what you're saying is that the difference doesn't really matter much and that ya' all should give each other a hug and make up.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[BETH-MIDAN]

The bible's on the right and winning side of reproduction. Hilariously.

 

[buttercup]

Not true. I spent 30 years with an open mind believing in god. I stopped believing because I realized it's man made up and czernobog has explained it as nausium on how and why that's true.

Do you mind if I ask what religion or denomination you were part of? I don't know anything about you, so I can't really say much here… But I will say this, you're absolutely 100% wrong about God.

 

[sealybobo]

Not true. I spent 30 years with an open mind believing in god. I stopped believing because I realized it's man made up and czernobog has explained it as nausium on how and why that's true.

Do you mind if I ask what religion or denomination you were part of? I don't know anything about you, so I can't really say much here… But I will say this, you're absolutely 100% wrong about God.

Greek Orthodox. And I used to think ours was better/different but I'm seeing negative similarities. My church has gone right wing. Which is good. It further confirms my sdisbelief.

But I've studied them all. Presbyterian Lutheran baptist born agains etc

 

[buttercup]

Greek Orthodox. And I used to think ours was better/different but I'm seeing negative similarities. My church has gone right wing. Which is good. It further confirms my sdisbelief.

But I've studied them all. Presbyterian Lutheran baptist born agains etc

Ah, OK. That's kind of what I suspected. Makes perfect sense now why you left faith.

Please just know that there's a difference between religion and God.

 

[Muhammed]

I have been challenged several times to demonstrate how Christianity harms society, presumably be cause the person challenging me thinks that it doesn't. So, this will be the first of numerous discussions demonstrating exactly how Christianity harms society. Now, I am certain that any of a number of theists, and apologists will be tempted to respond with, "Well, but atheism..." fill in the blank. Don't. Resist that temptation. I'm sure that whatever you are about to say about atheism is earth-shattering, profound, and brilliantly insightful. So, by all means, go open a discussion thread with that thought. In the meantime this discussion is about Christians, and their affect on society. Let's do stay on topic. Now, on with the show...

The Bible's archaic, arbitrary code of ethics is ineffective in the real world. Now, this is not to say that the bible does not have any good ideas - Do not murder, Do not steal, for example. However, when you consider all of the rules, and regulations in the Bible as a whole, you discover vagueness, contradictions, absurdities, immorality idolized and morality demonized. Now, I'm sure that there are going to be Christians who swear this isn't true. Allow me to illustrate. According to the rules, as written in Deuteronomy, if you go to war and take women captive, you can marry them after shaving their head and living with them for a month. But, once you have, can't sell them as slaves to anyone else. Who the fuck needs to even be told not to sell their wife a s a fucking slave?!?! The people who wrote the Bible, apparently. Also, according to Deuteronomy, if you have a disobedient son, you can take him to the middle of town, and everyone can have a rock throwing party. Now, Christians will say, "Oh! But we don't do that any more," No, but it makes the abuse that you do deliver seem mild by comparison. "Hey, all I do is beat my kid with a belt, at least I'm not stoning him like we used to do..."

According to 1st Corinthians, a woman should sit down, shut up, and submit to their husbands. Now, again, Christians will insist, "Why yes, a wife should be obedient to her husband," Uh...I won't touch that one. I'll let your own wives deal with you on that score. However, I will point out that the Bible didn't just say "be obedient," Nooo. I, specifically says submit The word "submit" actually means to give over or yield to the power or authority of another. You know who else is expected to "submit"? Servants and slaves. That's right. The Bible specifically relegates wives to the position of servants, and slaves. Oh! And speaking of slaves, the Bible specifically endorses slavery in both the Old, and the New Testament. And this from a people who wrote an entire book about their shitty time as a race of slaves!!! Wrap your head around that one. So, how about we dispense, Christians, with any protestations about the morality advocated in the Bible.

But it gets better! Compounding the problem, the determining factor of whether or not you're forgiven or punished for violating these vague, contradictory, absurd rules is whether or not you believe in a story. Again, Christians are going to say, "That's not how it works! You have to accept him as Lord and Saviour!" And how do we know that he is "Lord and Saviour"? Oh. That's right. That story. So, you have to believe in a story. Okay...okay. You have to believe in a story, and say the magic words demonstrating that you believe the story.

Here's why that's bad. Imagine if you were trying to control a class of 6 year old children and you gave them an arbitrary set of conflicting, vague rules and told them that the only way to escape punishment for breaking the rules is to believe in a story. What would happen? Chaos would break out.

Children raised their entire lives on vague, arbitrary rules reinforced by fantasy stories of magic, and mythology grow up into adults with a warped sense of reality. They often feel guilty for doing innocent, natural things, believe they deserve to go to Hell, believe in magical spirits and powers, distrust science, fear pleasure and celebrate subjugation of self. These are not the habits of an enlightened society. They're irrational, and they contradict reality. If you live your life according to beliefs that contradict reality you're going to have a bad time.

Also, some of those kids believing in archaic, haphazard rules are going to grow up to be politicians, and they are going to try to laws based on those beliefs, which will in turn be draconian, archaic, and haphazard.

A lot of immature ex-Christians such as yourself are very intolerant. Grow up.

WE HAVE A FLAG ON THE PLAY

​

You have no legit argument. Your OP is nothing but strawman arguments.

Grow up.

 

[Czernobog]

And in order to know how God perceives us, would mean you know the mind of God. And claiming knowledge from scripture is absurd, as scripture is anything but clear. You guys have been demonstrating that this entire discussion.

We don't have to know everything to know some things. Some things are self-evident. Some things we learn through experience. Other things we learn through God opening our eyes and giving us understanding. You'll most likely disbelieve this, but if you set aside the pride, bitterness and anger...and seek God with a genuine sincere desire for truth… not only will you find it, but scripture will not be as unclear for you as it is right now.

Not true. I spent 30 years with an open mind believing in god. I stopped believing because I realized it's man made up and czernobog has explained it as nausium on how and why that's true.

*blink* *blink* ad nauseum? Ouch...

 

[Czernobog]

The bible's on the right and winning side of reproduction. Hilariously.

 

[BETH-MIDAN]

I'm not even going to try

 

[sealybobo]

Greek Orthodox. And I used to think ours was better/different but I'm seeing negative similarities. My church has gone right wing. Which is good. It further confirms my sdisbelief.

But I've studied them all. Presbyterian Lutheran baptist born agains etc

Ah, OK. That's kind of what I suspected. Makes perfect sense now why you left faith.

Please just know that there's a difference between religion and God.

If religion is made up what makes you think gods not?

 

[sealybobo]

And in order to know how God perceives us, would mean you know the mind of God. And claiming knowledge from scripture is absurd, as scripture is anything but clear. You guys have been demonstrating that this entire discussion.

We don't have to know everything to know some things. Some things are self-evident. Some things we learn through experience. Other things we learn through God opening our eyes and giving us understanding. You'll most likely disbelieve this, but if you set aside the pride, bitterness and anger...and seek God with a genuine sincere desire for truth… not only will you find it, but scripture will not be as unclear for you as it is right now.

Not true. I spent 30 years with an open mind believing in god. I stopped believing because I realized it's man made up and czernobog has explained it as nausium on how and why that's true.

*blink* *blink* ad nauseum? Ouch...

I thought it meant you've more than explained it. Over and over. Wasn't meant to be an insult

 

[Czernobog]

Greek Orthodox. And I used to think ours was better/different but I'm seeing negative similarities. My church has gone right wing. Which is good. It further confirms my sdisbelief.

But I've studied them all. Presbyterian Lutheran baptist born agains etc

Ah, OK. That's kind of what I suspected. Makes perfect sense now why you left faith.

Please just know that there's a difference between religion and God.

Dude. YOU follow a religion. Allow me to demonstrate. Do you:

1. worship a god that cannot be detected by scientific methods?
2. have a holy book in which your god tells you how to live?
3. have an after-life where you will be judged according to your beliefs, actions and life choices?
4. Believe that by being born into this world you were somehow infected with a disease called "sin", and that only your particular god is able to rescue you from this mortal condition?
5. reject all other gods as being false, with only your god being worthy of worship and adoration?
6. pray to your god?
   
7. believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was your god who created the entire universe?
8. have faith that your particular holy book is the only one in which the written accounts can be trusted completely, and contains the will of your god?
9. attend regular gatherings arranged and led by experts of your particular belief system?
10. think it's possible to know exactly what your god's purpose is for your life, even though you cannot prove he exists?
11. value having a "strong faith" above what can be learned from science and empirical observation and utilising logic and reason? (Before you insist "no" to this one, I will direct your attention back to "Jesus LITERALLY rose from the dead", then apply that to what science, empirical observation, logic, and reason have to say about the probability of that being possible, and then answer this question.)

If you answered yes to the majority of these questions, I hate to break it to you, Sparky, but you follow a religion.

 

[BETH-MIDAN]

anyways, science came from religion

 

[sealybobo]

anyways, science came from religion

Yes religion said Zeus does lightening and some smart person didn't believe that

 

[Czernobog]

I have been challenged several times to demonstrate how Christianity harms society, presumably be cause the person challenging me thinks that it doesn't. So, this will be the first of numerous discussions demonstrating exactly how Christianity harms society. Now, I am certain that any of a number of theists, and apologists will be tempted to respond with, "Well, but atheism..." fill in the blank. Don't. Resist that temptation. I'm sure that whatever you are about to say about atheism is earth-shattering, profound, and brilliantly insightful. So, by all means, go open a discussion thread with that thought. In the meantime this discussion is about Christians, and their affect on society. Let's do stay on topic. Now, on with the show...

The Bible's archaic, arbitrary code of ethics is ineffective in the real world. Now, this is not to say that the bible does not have any good ideas - Do not murder, Do not steal, for example. However, when you consider all of the rules, and regulations in the Bible as a whole, you discover vagueness, contradictions, absurdities, immorality idolized and morality demonized. Now, I'm sure that there are going to be Christians who swear this isn't true. Allow me to illustrate. According to the rules, as written in Deuteronomy, if you go to war and take women captive, you can marry them after shaving their head and living with them for a month. But, once you have, can't sell them as slaves to anyone else. Who the fuck needs to even be told not to sell their wife a s a fucking slave?!?! The people who wrote the Bible, apparently. Also, according to Deuteronomy, if you have a disobedient son, you can take him to the middle of town, and everyone can have a rock throwing party. Now, Christians will say, "Oh! But we don't do that any more," No, but it makes the abuse that you do deliver seem mild by comparison. "Hey, all I do is beat my kid with a belt, at least I'm not stoning him like we used to do..."

According to 1st Corinthians, a woman should sit down, shut up, and submit to their husbands. Now, again, Christians will insist, "Why yes, a wife should be obedient to her husband," Uh...I won't touch that one. I'll let your own wives deal with you on that score. However, I will point out that the Bible didn't just say "be obedient," Nooo. I, specifically says submit The word "submit" actually means to give over or yield to the power or authority of another. You know who else is expected to "submit"? Servants and slaves. That's right. The Bible specifically relegates wives to the position of servants, and slaves. Oh! And speaking of slaves, the Bible specifically endorses slavery in both the Old, and the New Testament. And this from a people who wrote an entire book about their shitty time as a race of slaves!!! Wrap your head around that one. So, how about we dispense, Christians, with any protestations about the morality advocated in the Bible.

But it gets better! Compounding the problem, the determining factor of whether or not you're forgiven or punished for violating these vague, contradictory, absurd rules is whether or not you believe in a story. Again, Christians are going to say, "That's not how it works! You have to accept him as Lord and Saviour!" And how do we know that he is "Lord and Saviour"? Oh. That's right. That story. So, you have to believe in a story. Okay...okay. You have to believe in a story, and say the magic words demonstrating that you believe the story.

Here's why that's bad. Imagine if you were trying to control a class of 6 year old children and you gave them an arbitrary set of conflicting, vague rules and told them that the only way to escape punishment for breaking the rules is to believe in a story. What would happen? Chaos would break out.

Children raised their entire lives on vague, arbitrary rules reinforced by fantasy stories of magic, and mythology grow up into adults with a warped sense of reality. They often feel guilty for doing innocent, natural things, believe they deserve to go to Hell, believe in magical spirits and powers, distrust science, fear pleasure and celebrate subjugation of self. These are not the habits of an enlightened society. They're irrational, and they contradict reality. If you live your life according to beliefs that contradict reality you're going to have a bad time.

Also, some of those kids believing in archaic, haphazard rules are going to grow up to be politicians, and they are going to try to laws based on those beliefs, which will in turn be draconian, archaic, and haphazard.

A lot of immature ex-Christians such as yourself are very intolerant. Grow up.

WE HAVE A FLAG ON THE PLAY

​

You have no legit argument. Your OP is nothing but strawman arguments.

Grow up.

You don't seem to understand what a "straw man" is. Just because you don't like having your Bible's own words exposed to the light of day, that doesn't make any of what I posted a straw man. Your posts, on the other hand have been sophomoric ad hominems. Don't worry, I understand. When the intellectually weak hav no arguments, they have no choice but to resort to personal attacks.

 

[Czernobog]

I'm not even going to try

That would probably be best.

 

[Czernobog]

anyways, science came from religion

mmm...no.

 

[BETH-MIDAN]

Anyways,
no more subject left.

 

[Czernobog]

And in order to know how God perceives us, would mean you know the mind of God. And claiming knowledge from scripture is absurd, as scripture is anything but clear. You guys have been demonstrating that this entire discussion.

We don't have to know everything to know some things. Some things are self-evident. Some things we learn through experience. Other things we learn through God opening our eyes and giving us understanding. You'll most likely disbelieve this, but if you set aside the pride, bitterness and anger...and seek God with a genuine sincere desire for truth… not only will you find it, but scripture will not be as unclear for you as it is right now.

Not true. I spent 30 years with an open mind believing in god. I stopped believing because I realized it's man made up and czernobog has explained it as nausium on how and why that's true.

*blink* *blink* ad nauseum? Ouch...

I thought it meant you've more than explained it. Over and over. Wasn't meant to be an insult

Anyways,
no more subject left.

Well...no reasonable response any way. Thank you for playing. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

 

[buttercup]

If religion is made up what makes you think gods not?

I didn't say "religion is made up." But obviously there are many false religions, ranging from completely false, to partially false, etc.

All I was saying is that religion and God are not the same thing. I want to elaborate, but I'm actually just about to start dinner, but I will try to get back to this thread later.