Tesla is now most valuable auto maker in US

[WinterBorn]

The electric-car maker hit a market value of $50.84 billion on Monday, edging past GM (GM) at $50.79 billion.

Tesla loses money, and it sells a small fraction of the cars of its much older competitors. Tesla sold about 25,000 of its Model S and Model X cars in the first three months of the year, compared with 690,000 cars and trucks for GM and 617,000 for Ford in the United States alone.

Rebecca Lindland, executive analyst at Kelley Blue Book, says Tesla is being treated differently than other carmakers. "They're classified as a tech company," she told CNNMoney, "so they're not really held to the same standards."

She adds that while Wall Street focuses on more traditional criteria -- like profitability -- for established companies like Ford and GM, "Tesla kind of gets a free pass."


Idiot investors

it's speculators hoping for a bit hit 20 years or so from now, when the technology matures and the cars 1) enter the cost range of middle income people and 2) they get battery charging down to the 5-10 minute range.

What says Tesla will be the only company in the electric car market twenty years from now?
Ford, GM. Toyota, Honda and many others are in a better position to undercut Tesla in the future.

Current problems with electric cars

1. Range
2. Time to recharge
3. Cost of replacing batteries and disposing of old ones
4. Heavy duty market...Trucks, construction vehicles, tractors

The advantages to the Tesla are many. The two best selling EVs are the Nissan Leaf and the Tesla Model S.

The Leaf has a top range of 120 miles. The Tesla's top range is 351 miles. But given that the average person drives just under 14k miles per year. That works out to about 269 miles a week or 38 miles a day.

Time to recharge is dropping. And since you plug it in overnight, unless you drive a long distance it is not an issue.

I see the heavy duty market expanding in the future. After all, one of the toughest and strongest transportation machines out there is the diesel locomotive. And the diesel is only used to provide electric power the electric motor.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The electric-car maker hit a market value of $50.84 billion on Monday, edging past GM (GM) at $50.79 billion.

Tesla loses money, and it sells a small fraction of the cars of its much older competitors. Tesla sold about 25,000 of its Model S and Model X cars in the first three months of the year, compared with 690,000 cars and trucks for GM and 617,000 for Ford in the United States alone.

Rebecca Lindland, executive analyst at Kelley Blue Book, says Tesla is being treated differently than other carmakers. "They're classified as a tech company," she told CNNMoney, "so they're not really held to the same standards."

She adds that while Wall Street focuses on more traditional criteria -- like profitability -- for established companies like Ford and GM, "Tesla kind of gets a free pass."


Idiot investors

it's speculators hoping for a bit hit 20 years or so from now, when the technology matures and the cars 1) enter the cost range of middle income people and 2) they get battery charging down to the 5-10 minute range.

What says Tesla will be the only company in the electric car market twenty years from now?
Ford, GM. Toyota, Honda and many others are in a better position to undercut Tesla in the future.

Current problems with electric cars

1. Range
2. Time to recharge
3. Cost of replacing batteries and disposing of old ones
4. Heavy duty market...Trucks, construction vehicles, tractors

^^ that could of been written in the year 1885... That's why ICE cars became more popular then the old technology of electric Cars at the time


.

 

[WinterBorn]

Even if you are paying for the electricity, the Tesla comes out cheaper to run.

The national average for electricity is $0.12 per kWh. So you can put a full charge on the Model S 100D for $12. That will give you a range of over 300 miles. If your car gets 25mpg and gas is $2.38 a gal, that same $12 will buy you 5 gals of gas with a range of 120 miles. If your care gets 20mpg, you get 101 miles worth for $12.

And the gasoline companies change their prices at the drop of a hat. Electric companies do not. Plus, most power companies have a discounted rate for power in the off peak hours. When you typically charge your EV.

 

[Moonglow]

Hilarious to see conservatives show up to wail against an American success story isn't it?

Who thinks like that?

That has a profit margin while working in the USA..

 

[Moonglow]

The electric-car maker hit a market value of $50.84 billion on Monday, edging past GM (GM) at $50.79 billion.

Tesla loses money, and it sells a small fraction of the cars of its much older competitors. Tesla sold about 25,000 of its Model S and Model X cars in the first three months of the year, compared with 690,000 cars and trucks for GM and 617,000 for Ford in the United States alone.

Rebecca Lindland, executive analyst at Kelley Blue Book, says Tesla is being treated differently than other carmakers. "They're classified as a tech company," she told CNNMoney, "so they're not really held to the same standards."

She adds that while Wall Street focuses on more traditional criteria -- like profitability -- for established companies like Ford and GM, "Tesla kind of gets a free pass."


Idiot investors

it's speculators hoping for a bit hit 20 years or so from now, when the technology matures and the cars 1) enter the cost range of middle income people and 2) they get battery charging down to the 5-10 minute range.

What says Tesla will be the only company in the electric car market twenty years from now?
Ford, GM. Toyota, Honda and many others are in a better position to undercut Tesla in the future.

Current problems with electric cars

1. Range
2. Time to recharge
3. Cost of replacing batteries and disposing of old ones
4. Heavy duty market...Trucks, construction vehicles, tractors

^^ that could of been written in the year 1885... That's why ICE cars became more popular then the old technology of electric Cars at the time


.

gasification was very popular also, and it took care of the tash..

 

[there4eyeM]

What is 'funny' is that the egregious egoists with their fat vehicle fetish are even proud of themselves.

 

[Moonglow]

What is 'funny' is that the egregious egoists with their fat vehicle fetish are even proud of themselves.

Small penis..The larger, louder models with guns help, but it's still small..

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This car company was founded in 2003 and has already overtaken GM. Note.

Exactly! Note that the government got involved with GM while it has not with Tesla. Coincidence? I think not.

Note that the government got involved with GM while it has not with Tesla.

The government loaned them money in 2010.
And of course the government subsidies they benefit from are huge.

 

[WinterBorn]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Even if you are paying for the electricity, the Tesla comes out cheaper to run.

The national average for electricity is $0.12 per kWh. So you can put a full charge on the Model S 100D for $12. That will give you a range of over 300 miles. If your car gets 25mpg and gas is $2.38 a gal, that same $12 will buy you 5 gals of gas with a range of 120 miles. If your care gets 20mpg, you get 101 miles worth for $12.

And the gasoline companies change their prices at the drop of a hat. Electric companies do not. Plus, most power companies have a discounted rate for power in the off peak hours. When you typically charge your EV.

Yea just imagine 100 million electric cars plugged in at night with our 100 year electric grid, the black outs of California would be nothing compared to this.

 

[WinterBorn]

Even if you are paying for the electricity, the Tesla comes out cheaper to run.

The national average for electricity is $0.12 per kWh. So you can put a full charge on the Model S 100D for $12. That will give you a range of over 300 miles. If your car gets 25mpg and gas is $2.38 a gal, that same $12 will buy you 5 gals of gas with a range of 120 miles. If your care gets 20mpg, you get 101 miles worth for $12.

And the gasoline companies change their prices at the drop of a hat. Electric companies do not. Plus, most power companies have a discounted rate for power in the off peak hours. When you typically charge your EV.

Yea just imagine 100 million electric cars plugged in at night with our 100 year electric grid, the black outs of California would be nothing compared to this.

Of course, the growth in the number of EVs out there will be gradual. So the generating capabilities can be expanded during that time.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Even if you are paying for the electricity, the Tesla comes out cheaper to run.

The national average for electricity is $0.12 per kWh. So you can put a full charge on the Model S 100D for $12. That will give you a range of over 300 miles. If your car gets 25mpg and gas is $2.38 a gal, that same $12 will buy you 5 gals of gas with a range of 120 miles. If your care gets 20mpg, you get 101 miles worth for $12.

And the gasoline companies change their prices at the drop of a hat. Electric companies do not. Plus, most power companies have a discounted rate for power in the off peak hours. When you typically charge your EV.

Yea just imagine 100 million electric cars plugged in at night with our 100 year electric grid, the black outs of California would be nothing compared to this.

Of course, the growth in the number of EVs out there will be gradual. So the generating capabilities can be expanded during that time.

Those of us in the know average citizens like I and some politicians have been begging them for years to upgrade it and protect the grid from EMPs and solar flares to no avail.

The cost are minimal compared to the unavoidable..


.

 

[rightwinger]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

 

[WinterBorn]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

Tesla started an automated battery swap system a few years ago. It could replace the entire battery system faster than you could full up a regular car. The cost for that was $80. Not sure what the cost will be when the batteries wear out.

 

[WinterBorn]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

One other point, the Tesla Model S uses 6,800 small batteries, instead of one (or a few) big batteries. That makes the chance of a catastrophic failure (leaving you stranded) very remote.

 

[rightwinger]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

One other point, the Tesla Model S uses 6,800 small batteries, instead of one (or a few) big batteries. That makes the chance of a catastrophic failure (leaving you stranded) very remote.

What about roadside assistance?

If I run out of gas, someone can bring me a gallon

What happens if I run out of charge?

 

[rightwinger]

One of my favorite videos.......1972 Datsun (electric) drag racing a 405 HP Corvette

 

[GHook93]

Only assuming a doubling every 2 years for 10 years, which is usually a very hard rate to maintain. Their biggest issue is how large of a market they have for their higher end vehicles, and if they can get costs down to enter the middle market before they exhaust the higher one.

Another big question is how many people now have a Tesla AND an ICE car vs. how many people have only a Tesla. It's easy to deal with the charge times of an electric when you can fall back to an ICE vehicle when you need to. For people in more middle incomes, they may only have 1 car.

I don't see electrics taking over the 1 car family market until you can charge one as fast as you fill up a tank of gas.

The quick refuleing is one area where ICE come out ahead. Tesla created an automated battery swap system that could replace the entire battery load in less time than it takes to refuel a gasoline engine Audi A8. But they have focused on the Supercharger stations instead of the battery swap stations. One of the big pluses to the Supercharger stations is that they are free for all Model S and Model X owners. You can get half a charge in about 30 mins. So on long trips you take a 30 min break every 150 to 170 miles. So long trips take a bit longer but cost a bit less.

Most people don't go over 250 miles in a day unless they are taking a trip. So this is not as big an issue as it seems.

1/2 a charge in 30 minutes isn't going to cut it for most people, but I assume they will figure out a way to drive that down.

I think most people don't drive more than 250 miles in a day, unless on vacation.

The problem is range is less than 250 miles if ancillary systems need to be used. Someone in Florida doesn't have to worry about the battery being drained due to the use of a heater, but someone in Wisconsin in February sure as hell has to. Without an ICE you lose that free heat, and have to rely on electric heat, which can dig into the battery life considerably.

The current Model S gets an estimated 337 to 350 miles on a charge. Yes, the cold weather and use of heat will cut that back a bit, but you should still be able to get 250 miles on a charge.

And as far as longer trips, it is still not a huge deal. We go to St Augustine (from Atlanta) every year for a long weekend. It is about 400 miles away and takes around 6 hours to get there in our Honda CRV. Getting 25 mpg, and with gas costing $2.38 a gal, we are spending $38.08 for the gas to get there. With a Tesla we would take 7 hrs to get there and spend nothing on fuel. When we got, we always stop at least once for gas and food. So the difference in travel time is less than you think, and the cost savings are more.

On the same trip in a vehicle that gets 20MPG, you spend $47.60 on fuel.

When gas costs $3.25 a gal, the trip (one way) will cost $52 for the 25mpg car and $65 for the 20mpg car.

Again I am a fan of Tesla, but the 350 mile range is a significant price upgrade.

Also if you have to travel 400 miles on 350 charge you will probably stop when you can could at 50 miles left.

It also takes some time to charge. 40-75 mins.

Tesla station - Wikipedia

All I am saying is they are great cars and an honorable cause, but they are build for a high end niche group at the moment and the Model 3 will open it more but not as much as advertised. However GM and Ford have build cars for every niche. Luxury cars, vans, pick up trucks, SUVs, sport cars, small economic cars, minivans, hybrids, electric (although very flawed) etc. They meet every niche and have a strong global presence.

Again Tesla has a small niche and does not serve the greater market and has a very limited overseas presences.

Again this valuation makes zero sense.

Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[WinterBorn]

The quick refuleing is one area where ICE come out ahead. Tesla created an automated battery swap system that could replace the entire battery load in less time than it takes to refuel a gasoline engine Audi A8. But they have focused on the Supercharger stations instead of the battery swap stations. One of the big pluses to the Supercharger stations is that they are free for all Model S and Model X owners. You can get half a charge in about 30 mins. So on long trips you take a 30 min break every 150 to 170 miles. So long trips take a bit longer but cost a bit less.

Most people don't go over 250 miles in a day unless they are taking a trip. So this is not as big an issue as it seems.

1/2 a charge in 30 minutes isn't going to cut it for most people, but I assume they will figure out a way to drive that down.

I think most people don't drive more than 250 miles in a day, unless on vacation.

The problem is range is less than 250 miles if ancillary systems need to be used. Someone in Florida doesn't have to worry about the battery being drained due to the use of a heater, but someone in Wisconsin in February sure as hell has to. Without an ICE you lose that free heat, and have to rely on electric heat, which can dig into the battery life considerably.

The current Model S gets an estimated 337 to 350 miles on a charge. Yes, the cold weather and use of heat will cut that back a bit, but you should still be able to get 250 miles on a charge.

And as far as longer trips, it is still not a huge deal. We go to St Augustine (from Atlanta) every year for a long weekend. It is about 400 miles away and takes around 6 hours to get there in our Honda CRV. Getting 25 mpg, and with gas costing $2.38 a gal, we are spending $38.08 for the gas to get there. With a Tesla we would take 7 hrs to get there and spend nothing on fuel. When we got, we always stop at least once for gas and food. So the difference in travel time is less than you think, and the cost savings are more.

On the same trip in a vehicle that gets 20MPG, you spend $47.60 on fuel.

When gas costs $3.25 a gal, the trip (one way) will cost $52 for the 25mpg car and $65 for the 20mpg car.

Again I am a fan of Tesla, but the 350 mile range is a significant price upgrade.

Also if you have to travel 400 miles on 350 charge you will probably stop when you can could at 50 miles left. How long does it take to charge? Is it hours?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

That is why I use the figure of 250 miles, since the mileage will also vary.

At the Supercharger stations you can get half a charge in 30 mins. In otherwords, a bathroom break and a bite to eat.

Yes, there is a minor drawback to using the Tesla for long distance travel. But 250 miles is far more than most people drive in a single day when they are not traveling out of town.

 

[WinterBorn]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

One other point, the Tesla Model S uses 6,800 small batteries, instead of one (or a few) big batteries. That makes the chance of a catastrophic failure (leaving you stranded) very remote.

What about roadside assistance?

If I run out of gas, someone can bring me a gallon

What happens if I run out of charge?

You get towed. But then, if you run out of charge on the road you did not plan your trip or pay attention to the warnings the car gave you.