Slavery - the Rest of the Story~

[AmyNation]

W.E. B Du Bois was a very smart man. He was a peace activist, a socialist sympathizer, an avowed Marxist, who blamed capitalism for racism, and he helped found the NAACP. A Harvard educationed man who worked hard for equal rights, to fight what he called white supremacy by advocating education for blacks, and someone who believed in living what you preach when he eventually renounced his American citizenship to live abroad.

Yes, he was not a fan of Lincoln. His works do touch on the fact that slaves were freed more for political reasons, and that the lives of freed slaves were never taken into account by their white liberators. However, anyone who has ever read anything by the man would know that his criticism of the North was in no way a praise of the south. He felt that the subjection of the black man simply shifted from less physical to a more mental state by white America

 

[poet]

Has anyone consulted Sheila Jackson Lee.?

I hear she is a free'd slave. (her words)

Why are you dissing my Representive?

 

[AmyNation]

I would suggest his book "black reconstruction in America" for anyone who think Du Bois paints slave owners as in any way less evil than their northern white counterparts.

 

[Toronado3800]

I would suggest his book "black reconstruction in America" for anyone who think Du Bois paints slave owners as in any way less evil than their northern white counterparts.

No doubt the cold slap of unregulated capitalism hit the former slaves in the face.

Would I rather be poor and free or a slave to the economic realities of capitalism but free to try to change it...

"I will feed you well if you come be my servant and sign over your civil rights folks! Especially you attractive females and strong males!" - wait, that sounds too darned creepy an offer for anyone to take. Slavery must have sucked more than being Pa Ingalls.

 

[AmyNation]

According to Du Bois, slaves were never really "freed". Yes, the escaped the cruelties of their white southern owners, but only to be used as pawns by the northern whites and subjected to similar cruelties by a nation that did not consider them equal in the eyes of the law.

 

[Toronado3800]

According to Du Bois, slaves were never really "freed". Yes, the escaped the cruelties of their white southern owners, but only to be used as pawns by the northern whites and subjected to similar cruelties by a nation that did not consider them equal in the eyes of the law.

I can agree on the racist white part and the unequalness of the situation for them if we call it "terrible" and "embarassing" or "bad but less bad than slavery". Maybe even "a step forward from slavery but still terrible for a free country"

 

[AmyNation]

In an 1856 letter to his wife Mary Custis Lee, Robert E. Lee called slavery "a moral and political evil." Yet he concluded that black slaves were immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially and physically.

The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.

The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).

In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them. Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2).

According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country's leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.

To return to the census figures quoted above, this 28 percent is certainly impressive when compared to less than 1.4 percent of all American whites and less than 4.8 percent of southern whites. The statistics show that, when free, blacks disproportionately became slave masters.

The majority of slaveholders, white and black, owned only one to five slaves. More often than not, and contrary to a century and a half of bullwhips-on-tortured-backs propaganda, black and white masters worked and ate alongside their charges; be it in house, field or workshop. The few individuals who owned 50 or more slaves were confined to the top one percent, and have been defined as slave magnates.

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

Yes, there were many free blacks before the war of northern aggression. Blacks even owned slaves themselves.

By the way, this article and its author are a not valid source. They can only be found on far right wing or KKK blogs, the author is bogus and so anything "he" writes cannot be viewed as fact-checked or reliable.

 

[AmyNation]

I did some digging but I found Robert M. Grooms

Crime & Delinquency

The author is serving the eighth year of a life sentence for first degree murder at the Indiana State Prison, Michigan City.

If you click "find more articles by this author", it links the article in the OP

 

[poet]

In an 1856 letter to his wife Mary Custis Lee, Robert E. Lee called slavery "a moral and political evil." Yet he concluded that black slaves were immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially and physically.

The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.

The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).

In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them. Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2).

According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country's leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.

To return to the census figures quoted above, this 28 percent is certainly impressive when compared to less than 1.4 percent of all American whites and less than 4.8 percent of southern whites. The statistics show that, when free, blacks disproportionately became slave masters.

The majority of slaveholders, white and black, owned only one to five slaves. More often than not, and contrary to a century and a half of bullwhips-on-tortured-backs propaganda, black and white masters worked and ate alongside their charges; be it in house, field or workshop. The few individuals who owned 50 or more slaves were confined to the top one percent, and have been defined as slave magnates.

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

Yes, there were many free blacks before the war of northern aggression. Blacks even owned slaves themselves.

By the way, this article and its author are a not valid source. They can only be found on far right wing or KKK blogs, the author is bogus and so anything "he" writes cannot be viewed as fact-checked or reliable.

Thank you.

 

[The Infidel]

Has anyone consulted Sheila Jackson Lee.?

I hear she is a free'd slave. (her words)

Why are you dissing my Representive?

Because she is a piece of shit.

 

[Uncensored2008]

According to Du Bois, slaves were never really "freed". Yes, the escaped the cruelties of their white southern owners, but only to be used as pawns by the northern whites and subjected to similar cruelties by a nation that did not consider them equal in the eyes of the law.

Du Bois had a chip on his shoulder the size of Texas.

 

[AmyNation]

According to Du Bois, slaves were never really "freed". Yes, the escaped the cruelties of their white southern owners, but only to be used as pawns by the northern whites and subjected to similar cruelties by a nation that did not consider them equal in the eyes of the law.

Du Bois had a chip on his shoulder the size of Texas.

The man had some serious flaws, least of which was a much earned arrogance. But I'm not the one pointing to him and singing his praises.

 

[Foxfyre]

Some here say that the author of the OP piece is not credible. I wonder if you would consider Walter Williams, PhD, professor of economics and one time head of the economics department at George Mason University to be credible?

He and his friend and colleage Thomas Sowell, PhD, have done exhaustive research on the whole history, practice, and economic affects of slavery. Neither condone or justify it in any form, but both are agreed on the history and effects of slavery.

Williams got my attention on the radio one morning when he said something to the effect that he has been absolutely blessed because his ancesters were captured somewhere on the Ivory Coast and dragged over to America as slaves. And despite being born at a time a few former slaves were still alive in America and being raised during the worst of segregation, he has been able to obtain a first class education, financially prosper, and become an educator at a prestigious institution of higher learning as well as enjoy being a writer, sometimes talk show host, and public speaker.

I didn't want to go get this article from his website at George Mason U so just ignore the Townhall link--the article was published in plenty of publications that you would not object to:

. . . ."The institution of slavery that the black race has long believed to be an abomination upon its people may actually have been a blessing in disguise. The blacks who could endure those conditions and circumstances would someday be rewarded with citizenship in the greatest nation ever established upon the face of the Earth."

Hubbard's observation reminded me of my 1972 job interview at the University of Massachusetts. During a reception, one of the Marxist professors asked me what I thought about the relationship between capitalism and slavery. My response was that slavery has existed everywhere in the world, under every political and economic system, and was by no means unique to capitalism or the United States. Perturbed by my response, he asked me what my feelings were about the enslavement of my ancestors. I answered that slavery is a despicable violation of human rights but that the enslavement of my ancestors is history, and one of the immutable facts of history is that nothing can be done to change it.

The matter could have been left there, but I volunteered that today's American blacks have benefited enormously from the horrible suffering of our ancestors. Why? I said the standard of living and personal liberty of black Americans are better than what blacks living anywhere in Africa have. I then asked the professor what it was that explained how tens of millions of blacks came to be born in the U.S. instead of Africa. He wouldn't answer, but an answer other than slavery would have been sheer idiocy. . . .


. . . .Though racism has been used to justify slavery, the origins of slavery had little to do with racism. In recent history, the major slave traders and slave owners have been Arabs, who enslaved Europeans, black Africans and Asians. A unique aspect of slavery in the Western world was the moral outrage against it, which began to emerge in the 18th century and led to massive efforts to eliminate it. It was Britain's military might and the sight of the Union Jack on the high seas that ultimately put an end to the slave trade.

Unfortunately, the facts about slavery are not the lessons taught in our schools and colleges. The gross misrepresentation and suggestion in textbooks and lectures is that slavery was a uniquely American practice done by racist white people to black people. Despite abundant historical evidence, youngsters are taught nothing about how the Founding Fathers quarreled, debated and agonized over the slave issue.
What You Can't Say - Walter E. Williams - Page full

 

[AmyNation]

Some here say that the author of the OP piece is not credible. I wonder if you would consider Walter Williams, PhD, professor of economics and one time head of the economics department at George Mason University to be credible?

He and his friend and colleage Thomas Sowell, PhD, have done exhaustive research on the whole history, practice, and economic affects of slavery. Neither condone or justify it in any form, but both are agreed on the history and effects of slavery.

Williams got my attention on the radio one morning when he said something to the effect that he has been absolutely blessed because his ancesters were captured somewhere on the Ivory Coast and dragged over to America as slaves. And despite being born at a time a few former slaves were still alive in America and being raised during the worst of segregation, he has been able to obtain a first class education, financially prosper, and become an educator at a prestigious institution of higher learning as well as enjoy being a writer, sometimes talk show host, and public speaker.

I didn't want to go get this article from his website at George Mason U so just ignore the Townhall link--the article was published in plenty of publications that you would not object to:

. . . ."The institution of slavery that the black race has long believed to be an abomination upon its people may actually have been a blessing in disguise. The blacks who could endure those conditions and circumstances would someday be rewarded with citizenship in the greatest nation ever established upon the face of the Earth."

Hubbard's observation reminded me of my 1972 job interview at the University of Massachusetts. During a reception, one of the Marxist professors asked me what I thought about the relationship between capitalism and slavery. My response was that slavery has existed everywhere in the world, under every political and economic system, and was by no means unique to capitalism or the United States. Perturbed by my response, he asked me what my feelings were about the enslavement of my ancestors. I answered that slavery is a despicable violation of human rights but that the enslavement of my ancestors is history, and one of the immutable facts of history is that nothing can be done to change it.

The matter could have been left there, but I volunteered that today's American blacks have benefited enormously from the horrible suffering of our ancestors. Why? I said the standard of living and personal liberty of black Americans are better than what blacks living anywhere in Africa have. I then asked the professor what it was that explained how tens of millions of blacks came to be born in the U.S. instead of Africa. He wouldn't answer, but an answer other than slavery would have been sheer idiocy. . . .


. . . .Though racism has been used to justify slavery, the origins of slavery had little to do with racism. In recent history, the major slave traders and slave owners have been Arabs, who enslaved Europeans, black Africans and Asians. A unique aspect of slavery in the Western world was the moral outrage against it, which began to emerge in the 18th century and led to massive efforts to eliminate it. It was Britain's military might and the sight of the Union Jack on the high seas that ultimately put an end to the slave trade.

Unfortunately, the facts about slavery are not the lessons taught in our schools and colleges. The gross misrepresentation and suggestion in textbooks and lectures is that slavery was a uniquely American practice done by racist white people to black people. Despite abundant historical evidence, youngsters are taught nothing about how the Founding Fathers quarreled, debated and agonized over the slave issue.
What You Can't Say - Walter E. Williams - Page full

Well ,I would definitely consider most anyone more credible than the man serving a life sentence in a state prison.

 

[Foxfyre]

I did some digging but I found Robert M. Grooms

Crime & Delinquency

The author is serving the eighth year of a life sentence for first degree murder at the Indiana State Prison, Michigan City.

If you click "find more articles by this author", it links the article in the OP

Yeah I've been digging too. Your Robert M. Grooms is, as nearly as I can tell, a Jr. who is 33 years old with a rap sheet as long as my arm.

The Robert Grooms who wrote the piece in the OP however, wrote it in 1997 - that was 16 years ago. If he was your Robert M. Grooms, he would have been 16 or 17 years old when he wrote it. Has to be a different Robert M. Grooms.

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

 

[AmyNation]

I did some digging but I found Robert M. Grooms

Crime & Delinquency

The author is serving the eighth year of a life sentence for first degree murder at the Indiana State Prison, Michigan City.

If you click "find more articles by this author", it links the article in the OP

Yeah I've been digging too. Your Robert M. Grooms is, as nearly as I can tell, a Jr. who is 33 years old with a rap sheet as long as my arm.

The Robert Grooms who wrote the piece in the OP however, wrote it in 1997 - that was 16 years ago. If he was your Robert M. Grooms, he would have been 16 or 17 years old when he wrote it. Has to be a different Robert M. Grooms.

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

I have no idea where you are getting any ages.

Here's the same article in OP

http://www.solargeneral.com/library/dixies-censored-subject-black-slave-owners-robert-m-grooms.pdf

That describes grooms as

"A freelance writer living in Indiana"

 

[AmyNation]

Also note that the OP's article is copywriter 1997, but all of his "sources" are from the late 80's.

 

[Katzndogz]

From the perspective of the time, what would have been an alternative allocation of labor?

 

[Foxfyre]

I did some digging but I found Robert M. Grooms

Crime & Delinquency



If you click "find more articles by this author", it links the article in the OP

Yeah I've been digging too. Your Robert M. Grooms is, as nearly as I can tell, a Jr. who is 33 years old with a rap sheet as long as my arm.

The Robert Grooms who wrote the piece in the OP however, wrote it in 1997 - that was 16 years ago. If he was your Robert M. Grooms, he would have been 16 or 17 years old when he wrote it. Has to be a different Robert M. Grooms.

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

I have no idea where you are getting any ages.

Here's the same article in OP

http://www.solargeneral.com/library/dixies-censored-subject-black-slave-owners-robert-m-grooms.pdf

That describes grooms as

"A freelance writer living in Indiana"

I haven't found an age for the writer of the article, but I am enough of a writer/historian to know that piece was not written by a 16-year-old kid with a long history of being in trouble with the law. Where is your link showing the author of the piece is serving a life sentence or has ever been in jail period?

On the other hand, I found all these:

MugShot of Robert M Grooms | Fairborn, OH

Robert M Grooms Arrest Details | Kettering, OH

ROBERT M GROOMS JR | Arrested on March 21, 2013 | JailBase

 

[AmyNation]

And let's not neglect the fact that it was published in the Barnes Review. An anti-semetic magazine dedicated to proving the holocaust never happened.