Shekels

[Coyote]

Hmmmm. Interesting thought. Is there a "one right way" for a peoples to become a "real" peoples?

I wouldn't say there is ONE right way, but there is certainly a wrong way, and that would be as a very intentional fabrication for the purpose of serving a specific political objective.

Eh. I might have to agree with you on that point.

What is the magical date where a people becomes a people? At what point? The origins are irrelevant, because at some point the coelesced around a national/ cultural identity and became a people.

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

 

[Coyote]

An interesting view on identity: The real 'invented' people

 

[Dogmaphobe]

An interesting view on identity: The real 'invented' people

You really are quite the antisemite, aren't you?.

The Arabs who began calling themselves "Palestinian" during the last century did not do so until encouraged by their terrorist leadership. that is a fact.

You are incapable of arguing fact, so retreat into your antisemitism once again.

 

[rylah]

Many, if not most, self-identify as the same as Jordanians and Syrians.

Most self identify as Palestinian.

So they identify, people also identify with 20 new genders that came up last week,
and whine when no one plays along.

Question rather, can most Arabs even pronounce the word properly?

There's a limit to every none sense.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

What is the magical date where a people becomes a people?

1967 by the looks of it . That's when Arab armies vowing to push Jews into the sea were defeated and Arab propagandists decided to invent them to fool stupid people like you into supporting their genocidal ambitions

 

[rylah]

An interesting view on identity: The real 'invented' people

Leave al Jazeerah propaganda to their Holocaust denial.

Let's see if you can dig a "Palestinian" coin from the ground.
Was there ever such a currency?

 

[Shusha]

Many, if not most, self-identify as the same as Jordanians and Syrians.

Most self identify as Palestinian.

Really? And you know this how?

 

[Shusha]

What is the magical date where a people becomes a people? At what point? The origins are irrelevant, because at some point the coelesced around a national/ cultural identity and became a people.

Its an excellent question, and I'm not sure there is a clear answer. But one possible answer is to test if a people has NOT developed a national identity. And, as I've said a few posts ago, which I believe you agreed with, is that the Arabs of Palestine have not yet been able to come together strongly enough to form a nation. Further, their identity seems to be centered around opposition to Jewish self-determination, rather than exerting their own. This is true in Gaza and in the West Bank. When a people decides to restrict medical treatment for its citizens in order to protect its pay-for-slay payments, I'd argue their national identity is not strong enough. When a people builds tunnels instead of water treatment plants or hospitals or schools, I'd argue their national identity is not strong enough.

 

[Coyote]

What is the magical date where a people becomes a people? At what point? The origins are irrelevant, because at some point the coelesced around a national/ cultural identity and became a people.

Its an excellent question, and I'm not sure there is a clear answer. But one possible answer is to test if a people has NOT developed a national identity. And, as I've said a few posts ago, which I believe you agreed with, is that the Arabs of Palestine have not yet been able to come together strongly enough to form a nation. Further, their identity seems to be centered around opposition to Jewish self-determination, rather than exerting their own. This is true in Gaza and in the West Bank. When a people decides to restrict medical treatment for its citizens in order to protect its pay-for-slay payments, I'd argue their national identity is not strong enough. When a people builds tunnels instead of water treatment plants or hospitals or schools, I'd argue their national identity is not strong enough.

I agree with you on the national identity aspect, but national identity and identifying as a people, while they often overlap, aren’t the same, and many peoples, identify as peoples, but don’t ever seek a national identity.

 

[Shusha]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

 

[Shusha]

I agree with you on the national identity aspect, but national identity and identifying as a people, while they often overlap, aren’t the same, and many peoples, identify as peoples, but don’t ever seek a national identity.

Sure. This is how it is turning out so far with the First Nations Peoples of Canada. Some have achieved a significant self-determination, and identify as Nations, without necessarily removing themselves entirely from Canada. That may change in the future.

But this is why I suggest that possibly having some sort of alignment or federation with Jordan might be a better solution. It doesn't remove the right to self-determination for the Arab Palestinians, should they seek it. But it removes the opposition against Jews as a raison d'etre.

 

[Coyote]

.,lk

Many, if not most, self-identify as the same as Jordanians and Syrians.

Most self identify as Palestinian.

Really? And you know this how?

I don’t know how much that reveals about how they identify themselves in terms of numbers. But it is interesting. Is this the same project as the one article? What Israelis and Palestinians think – uncut interviews from the streets

 

[Coyote]

I agree with you on the national identity aspect, but national identity and identifying as a people, while they often overlap, aren’t the same, and many peoples, identify as peoples, but don’t ever seek a national identity.

Sure. This is how it is turning out so far with the First Nations Peoples of Canada. Some have achieved a significant self-determination, and identify as Nations, without necessarily removing themselves entirely from Canada. That may change in the future.

But this is why I suggest that possibly having some sort of alignment or federation with Jordan might be a better solution. It doesn't remove the right to self-determination for the Arab Palestinians, should they seek it. But it removes the opposition against Jews as a raison d'etre.

I agree with what you are saying regarding Jordan. A good bit of the Palestinian National identity developed in opposition to the State of Israel.

 

[Coyote]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

 

[Shusha]

.,lk

Many, if not most, self-identify as the same as Jordanians and Syrians.

Most self identify as Palestinian.

Really? And you know this how?

I don’t know how much that reveals about how they identify themselves in terms of numbers. But it is interesting. Is this the same project as the one article? What Israelis and Palestinians think – uncut interviews from the streets

Yes. Same project. There are, I don't know, dozens? hundreds? of videos he's done.

 

[Shusha]

I agree with you on the national identity aspect, but national identity and identifying as a people, while they often overlap, aren’t the same, and many peoples, identify as peoples, but don’t ever seek a national identity.

Sure. This is how it is turning out so far with the First Nations Peoples of Canada. Some have achieved a significant self-determination, and identify as Nations, without necessarily removing themselves entirely from Canada. That may change in the future.

But this is why I suggest that possibly having some sort of alignment or federation with Jordan might be a better solution. It doesn't remove the right to self-determination for the Arab Palestinians, should they seek it. But it removes the opposition against Jews as a raison d'etre.

I agree with what you are saying regarding Jordan. A good bit of the Palestinian National identity developed in opposition to the State of Israel.

Exactly. So the question then, is how to move them away from that and into a centered national pride on their own. Ideas?

 

[Shusha]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

Ah well, maybe I just have more faith in humanity than you do. Shrug.

I understand the feeling that Palestinians are "fake". I understand the claims that Arab Palestinian identity was invented, specifically as a reaction to Jewish self-determination. That is abundantly clear from Corey's video I posted. They say so themselves.

I basically just said to "send them to another place" -- Jordan -- or at least incorporate them into Jordan. Other posters are just more blunt about it than I am. But think about it. If self-determination is "off the table" for the Arab Palestinians, because they just aren't invested in achieving it, then where should they be incorporated? In the place where they share a culture, language and religious faith? Or in a place where they oppose the culture, language and religious faith?

 

[DOTR]

Just saw Jeopardy, where they referenced Israeli currency--shekels. It's the same currency they had 2000 years ago. And Hebrew is the same language they spoke in that land 2000 years ago. They also celebrate the same national holidays that Jesus observed 2000 years ago (like Passover and Hanukkah). Can the so-called Palestinians make the same claim? No, which is why they try to destroy every archeological artifact on the Temple Mount.

This is a crime against humanity. The Arabs have long tried to destroy the archaeological record of the Jews in Israel and only the most corrupt, pro-homosexual, baby killing anti-human people imaginable could stand by and let them do it.
Jewish college students in the Kidron Valley heroically sorted through dirt the Muslims dumped during the night and recvovered priceless artifacts.
About the Project - The Temple Mount Sifting Project

 

[Pogo]

An interesting view on identity: The real 'invented' people

Leave al Jazeerah propaganda to their Holocaust denial.

Let's see if you can dig a "Palestinian" coin from the ground.
Was there ever such a currency?

I dunno, lemme look around here in Appalachia and see if I can find some old "Cherokee coins".

 

[rylah]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.