Shekels

[ForeverYoung436]

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

If what you say is true, then there would have been no reason for the West Bank city of Neapolis to be renamed Nablus by the Arabs there. But they did rename it. The language that one learns in infancy is always their best. I started learning Hebrew at 8, but it can never compare with my English.

I at least can pronounce Hebrew, even if I don't speak it perfectly. As for the other Jewish language, Yiddish, I can't even pronounce the words from my lips. So from personal experience, I do think it matters very much from what age one starts to learn different sounds and letters.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

Just like there is no letter corresponding to the "kh" sound in the English alphabet, although there is a letter "khet" in Hebrew, in the same way there is no letter P in Arabic. This is why the Roman city in the West Bank called Neapolis became Nablus in Arabic. (It was originally called Shekhem by the Israelites.) Arabs don't call the land Palestine because they can't pronounce that name. I believe they call it Falistin. rylah is basically joking around and saying that the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country. It would be like Jews calling our holiday Hanukkah instead of Chanukah because we can't pronounce the name of our very own festival.

Bullshit. My mother tongue is English but that doesn't somehow "prevent" me from pronouncing the kh sound of Arabic, the ü in German, the ñ in Spanish, the zh sound in French, or the nasals in Portuguese. It doesn't depend on having a letter in your native alphabet, nor is anyone limited to that alphabet.

Anyway my thrust was more at his sweeping generalization.

But I think rylah's point is deeper. "Palestine" isn't an Arabic name because there isn't even a letter P in their alphabet. It's a Roman name. The Romans forced the Jews out of Judea, and they renamed the country Palestine after the Jews' bitterest enemies--the Philistines. The Romans tried to erase Jewish history, and now the so-called Palestinians are trying to do the same thing today.

The Palestinians didn’t start out Arabic...their presence in the region preceded the Muslim conquest. I don’t understand why the argument matters other than to serve to erase a people.

Well, I don't believe the Palestinians are the same people that have lived there since Canaanite times, which is the popular myth these days. They were imported into the area from Arabia, Egypt and Syria.

 

[rylah]

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither can cats bark,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just from common sense and basic knowledge of the language.

 

[Pogo]

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

 

[Pogo]

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

If what you say is true, then there would have been no reason for the West Bank city of Neapolis to be renamed Nablus by the Arabs there. But they did rename it. The language that one learns in infancy is always their best. I started learning Hebrew at 8, but it can never compare with my English.

I at least can pronounce Hebrew, even if I don't speak it perfectly. As for the other Jewish language, Yiddish, I can't even pronounce the words from my lips. So from personal experience, I do think it matters very much from what age one starts to learn different sounds and letters.

Children are always more efficient sponges of course, but that doesn't mean the ability just disappears at some age of majority. I didn't learn Arabic phrases until my late 20s and Portuguese until after that, but I've been told by native speakers I can do it with "no accent".

We're just deconstructing the poster's absurd notion that "most of" (which he's confessed is a fallacy) some group "cannot pronounce" something. Of course they can. They have vocal chords, lips, tongue etc.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

rylah is an Israeli and lives in the Middle East. He knows more about Arabs in the area and how they speak than you and I know.

 

[Pogo]

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

rylah is an Israeli and lives in the Middle East. He knows more about Arabs in the area and how they speak than you and I know.

Clearly he doesn't know how language learning works.

I spent considerable time among Arabs, which is where I learnt some Arabic, and while it's kind of a challenge to think of specific conversations involving the letter P, those conversations took place in either English or French, BOTH of which use the letter P, and there was never a time any of us got hung up on it. So his claim is, pun intended, perfidiously preposterous.

P is a plosive, virtually the same as the letter B but with more breath. It's not like it's even hard to do.

And btw I found a source for the ridiculous contention:

Israeli Legislator Argues With Straight Face That Palestine Can’t Exist Because There’s No P in Arabic

>> The remark came during a Knesset debate over a contentious proposal from opposition leader Isaac Herzog for Israel to unilaterally separate from the Palestinians in the absence of a two-state solution. Berko’s argument got an immediate response. “What? Did everyone hear this? Are you an idiot?” replied an MK from the opposition Meretz party. Arab lawmakers walked out in protest, reportedly muttering “P-P-P” under their breath.

The New York Times notes that the statement has been widely mocked in the Hebrew and Arabic media, with some joking that by her logic, there’s no pizza in America because English doesn’t have the Hebrew letter Tzadik, to make a tza sound. Jews might also be in trouble since there’s no J in Hebrew.

It might also blow Berko’s mind to learn that German, Egyptian, Chinese, and Japanese people, among many others, don’t actually refer to themselves by those names. <<
​

Long story short ---- he be trollin'.

 

[rylah]

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

What?? None of that makes any sense.

There's no letter 'p' in Arabic, and not only don't they know what the word says,
but most Arabs can't even pronounce 'Palestine' properly.


Can You contradict these facts?

 

[Pogo]

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

What?? None of that makes any sense.

There's no letter 'p' in Arabic, and not only don't they know what the word says,
but most Arabs can't even pronounce 'Palestine' properly.


Can You contradict these facts?

Yes. And I know where you got this ridiculous claim, just posted it above.

As I said there, I've conversed with way more Arabs than I could count, and they all pronounced P plainly and perfectly. Your trolling is a joke.

And the reference to speaking English refers to your contention that these "Arabs" would be speaking English, using the English term "Palestine" instead of their own word, Falestin. Just as Germans call their country "Deutschland" not "Germany".

 

[rylah]

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

rylah is an Israeli and lives in the Middle East. He knows more about Arabs in the area and how they speak than you and I know.

Clearly he doesn't know how language learning works.

I spent considerable time among Arabs, which is where I learnt some Arabic, and while it's kind of a challenge to think of specific conversations involving the letter P, those conversations took place in either English or French, BOTH of which use the letter P, and there was never a time any of us got hung up on it. So his claim is, pun intended, perfidiously preposterous.

P is a plosive, virtually the same as the letter B but with more breath. It's not like it's even hard to do.

And btw I found a source for the ridiculous contention:

Israeli Legislator Argues With Straight Face That Palestine Can’t Exist Because There’s No P in Arabic

>> The remark came during a Knesset debate over a contentious proposal from opposition leader Isaac Herzog for Israel to unilaterally separate from the Palestinians in the absence of a two-state solution. Berko’s argument got an immediate response. “What? Did everyone hear this? Are you an idiot?” replied an MK from the opposition Meretz party. Arab lawmakers walked out in protest, reportedly muttering “P-P-P” under their breath.

The New York Times notes that the statement has been widely mocked in the Hebrew and Arabic media, with some joking that by her logic, there’s no pizza in America because English doesn’t have the Hebrew letter Tzadik, to make a tza sound. Jews might also be in trouble since there’s no J in Hebrew.

It might also blow Berko’s mind to learn that German, Egyptian, Chinese, and Japanese people, among many others, don’t actually refer to themselves by those names. <<
​

Long story short ---- he be trollin'.

So maybe instead of demanding that which they can't even pronounce,
Arabs better go to France and learn to do something useful?

 

[Pogo]

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

rylah is an Israeli and lives in the Middle East. He knows more about Arabs in the area and how they speak than you and I know.

Clearly he doesn't know how language learning works.

I spent considerable time among Arabs, which is where I learnt some Arabic, and while it's kind of a challenge to think of specific conversations involving the letter P, those conversations took place in either English or French, BOTH of which use the letter P, and there was never a time any of us got hung up on it. So his claim is, pun intended, perfidiously preposterous.

P is a plosive, virtually the same as the letter B but with more breath. It's not like it's even hard to do.

And btw I found a source for the ridiculous contention:

Israeli Legislator Argues With Straight Face That Palestine Can’t Exist Because There’s No P in Arabic

>> The remark came during a Knesset debate over a contentious proposal from opposition leader Isaac Herzog for Israel to unilaterally separate from the Palestinians in the absence of a two-state solution. Berko’s argument got an immediate response. “What? Did everyone hear this? Are you an idiot?” replied an MK from the opposition Meretz party. Arab lawmakers walked out in protest, reportedly muttering “P-P-P” under their breath.

The New York Times notes that the statement has been widely mocked in the Hebrew and Arabic media, with some joking that by her logic, there’s no pizza in America because English doesn’t have the Hebrew letter Tzadik, to make a tza sound. Jews might also be in trouble since there’s no J in Hebrew.

It might also blow Berko’s mind to learn that German, Egyptian, Chinese, and Japanese people, among many others, don’t actually refer to themselves by those names. <<
​

Long story short ---- he be trollin'.

So maybe instead of demanding that which they can't even pronounce,
Arabs better go to France and learn to do something useful?

As a matter of fact France was indeed where I interacted with most of these Arabs. We were all there to do something useful --- work. It may have escaped your attention that France did considerable colonizing in North Africa. Whelp, a lot of those Africans come to France to find work. In their case, legally.

And again, none of them had any issue with pronouncing the letter P, in any language.

 

[rylah]

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

What?? None of that makes any sense.

There's no letter 'p' in Arabic, and not only don't they know what the word says,
but most Arabs can't even pronounce 'Palestine' properly.


Can You contradict these facts?

Yes. And I know where you got this ridiculous claim, just posted it above.

As I said there, I've conversed with way more Arabs than I could count, and they all pronounced P plainly and perfectly. Your trolling is a joke.

And the reference to speaking English refers to your contention that these "Arabs" would be speaking English, using the English term "Palestine" instead of their own word, Falestin. Just as Germans call their country "Deutschland" not "Germany".

If that's merely a ridiculous claim,
wouldn't it be easy for You just to show us the letter 'p' in Arabic alphabet?

What's the problem?

 

[rylah]

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

rylah is an Israeli and lives in the Middle East. He knows more about Arabs in the area and how they speak than you and I know.

Clearly he doesn't know how language learning works.

I spent considerable time among Arabs, which is where I learnt some Arabic, and while it's kind of a challenge to think of specific conversations involving the letter P, those conversations took place in either English or French, BOTH of which use the letter P, and there was never a time any of us got hung up on it. So his claim is, pun intended, perfidiously preposterous.

P is a plosive, virtually the same as the letter B but with more breath. It's not like it's even hard to do.

And btw I found a source for the ridiculous contention:

Israeli Legislator Argues With Straight Face That Palestine Can’t Exist Because There’s No P in Arabic

>> The remark came during a Knesset debate over a contentious proposal from opposition leader Isaac Herzog for Israel to unilaterally separate from the Palestinians in the absence of a two-state solution. Berko’s argument got an immediate response. “What? Did everyone hear this? Are you an idiot?” replied an MK from the opposition Meretz party. Arab lawmakers walked out in protest, reportedly muttering “P-P-P” under their breath.

The New York Times notes that the statement has been widely mocked in the Hebrew and Arabic media, with some joking that by her logic, there’s no pizza in America because English doesn’t have the Hebrew letter Tzadik, to make a tza sound. Jews might also be in trouble since there’s no J in Hebrew.

It might also blow Berko’s mind to learn that German, Egyptian, Chinese, and Japanese people, among many others, don’t actually refer to themselves by those names. <<
​

Long story short ---- he be trollin'.

So maybe instead of demanding that which they can't even pronounce,
Arabs better go to France and learn to do something useful?

As a matter of fact France was indeed where I interacted with most of these Arabs. We were all there to do something useful --- work. It may have escaped your attention that France did considerable colonizing in North Africa. Whelp, a lot of those Africans come to France to find work. In their case, legally.

So You basically admit what I say.
Interesting, how the French don't need to leave their country to learn to pronounce 'f",neither do Germans to pronounce 'd' in Deutschland . But for Arabs to pronounce the 'p' of 'Palestine' they have to move to a whole other continent

Only question remains, what do we call people who demand land name of which they can't even pronounce?

 

[Pogo]

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

rylah is an Israeli and lives in the Middle East. He knows more about Arabs in the area and how they speak than you and I know.

Clearly he doesn't know how language learning works.

I spent considerable time among Arabs, which is where I learnt some Arabic, and while it's kind of a challenge to think of specific conversations involving the letter P, those conversations took place in either English or French, BOTH of which use the letter P, and there was never a time any of us got hung up on it. So his claim is, pun intended, perfidiously preposterous.

P is a plosive, virtually the same as the letter B but with more breath. It's not like it's even hard to do.

And btw I found a source for the ridiculous contention:

Israeli Legislator Argues With Straight Face That Palestine Can’t Exist Because There’s No P in Arabic

>> The remark came during a Knesset debate over a contentious proposal from opposition leader Isaac Herzog for Israel to unilaterally separate from the Palestinians in the absence of a two-state solution. Berko’s argument got an immediate response. “What? Did everyone hear this? Are you an idiot?” replied an MK from the opposition Meretz party. Arab lawmakers walked out in protest, reportedly muttering “P-P-P” under their breath.

The New York Times notes that the statement has been widely mocked in the Hebrew and Arabic media, with some joking that by her logic, there’s no pizza in America because English doesn’t have the Hebrew letter Tzadik, to make a tza sound. Jews might also be in trouble since there’s no J in Hebrew.

It might also blow Berko’s mind to learn that German, Egyptian, Chinese, and Japanese people, among many others, don’t actually refer to themselves by those names. <<
​

Long story short ---- he be trollin'.

Another source, this time Al-Arabiya:

>> In what could be confused as a report from satirical U.S news site The Onion, an Israeli lawmaker recently claimed that there is no nation called Palestine because “Arabic does not have ‘P.’”

Anat Berko, a lawmaker in the ruling Likud party, said in a Knesset address on Wednesday that “I want to go back to history, what is our place here, about Jerusalem, about Palestine, when like we said, Arabic doesn’t even have ‘P,’ so this loan-word also merits scrutiny.”

While there is no ‘P’ sound, in Arabic, the word for “Palestine” in Arabic is “Falastin,” which also happens to be the similar pronunciation to its sister Semitic language - Hebrew.

Even when opposition lawmakers butt in and corrected Berko, she insisted, “There is no ‘Pa,’” snorting, “Pa, pa, pa.” “There’s ‘Fa,’” she added.

The oblivious gaffe by the lawmaker seemed to irk other Knesset members. Tamar Zandberg, a member of the left-wing Meretz who questioned Berko and asked her “are you an idiot?”

Berko reportedly said later she was alluding to the fact the Romans referred to the region as Syria Palaestina, but her comments were ridiculed, Agence France-Presse reported.

“Don’t you have a brain?” a parliamentarian from the left-wing Meretz party asked.

Jamal Dajani, a spokesman for the Palestinian prime minister’s office, said it was an attempt to “dehumanize Palestinians.” <<​

 

[rylah]

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

rylah is an Israeli and lives in the Middle East. He knows more about Arabs in the area and how they speak than you and I know.

Clearly he doesn't know how language learning works.

I spent considerable time among Arabs, which is where I learnt some Arabic, and while it's kind of a challenge to think of specific conversations involving the letter P, those conversations took place in either English or French, BOTH of which use the letter P, and there was never a time any of us got hung up on it. So his claim is, pun intended, perfidiously preposterous.

P is a plosive, virtually the same as the letter B but with more breath. It's not like it's even hard to do.

And btw I found a source for the ridiculous contention:

Israeli Legislator Argues With Straight Face That Palestine Can’t Exist Because There’s No P in Arabic

>> The remark came during a Knesset debate over a contentious proposal from opposition leader Isaac Herzog for Israel to unilaterally separate from the Palestinians in the absence of a two-state solution. Berko’s argument got an immediate response. “What? Did everyone hear this? Are you an idiot?” replied an MK from the opposition Meretz party. Arab lawmakers walked out in protest, reportedly muttering “P-P-P” under their breath.

The New York Times notes that the statement has been widely mocked in the Hebrew and Arabic media, with some joking that by her logic, there’s no pizza in America because English doesn’t have the Hebrew letter Tzadik, to make a tza sound. Jews might also be in trouble since there’s no J in Hebrew.

It might also blow Berko’s mind to learn that German, Egyptian, Chinese, and Japanese people, among many others, don’t actually refer to themselves by those names. <<
​

Long story short ---- he be trollin'.

Another source, this time Al-Arabiya:

>> In what could be confused as a report from satirical U.S news site The Onion, an Israeli lawmaker recently claimed that there is no nation called Palestine because “Arabic does not have ‘P.’”

Anat Berko, a lawmaker in the ruling Likud party, said in a Knesset address on Wednesday that “I want to go back to history, what is our place here, about Jerusalem, about Palestine, when like we said, Arabic doesn’t even have ‘P,’ so this loan-word also merits scrutiny.”

While there is no ‘P’ sound, in Arabic, the word for “Palestine” in Arabic is “Falastin,” which also happens to be the similar pronunciation to its sister Semitic language - Hebrew.

Even when opposition lawmakers butt in and corrected Berko, she insisted, “There is no ‘Pa,’” snorting, “Pa, pa, pa.” “There’s ‘Fa,’” she added.

The oblivious gaffe by the lawmaker seemed to irk other Knesset members. Tamar Zandberg, a member of the left-wing Meretz who questioned Berko and asked her “are you an idiot?”

Berko reportedly said later she was alluding to the fact the Romans referred to the region as Syria Palaestina, but her comments were ridiculed, Agence France-Presse reported.

“Don’t you have a brain?” a parliamentarian from the left-wing Meretz party asked.

Jamal Dajani, a spokesman for the Palestinian prime minister’s office, said it was an attempt to “dehumanize Palestinians.” <<​

Hebrew pronunciation uses 'p'.
By the way, Hebrew is the only language in which that word has a meaning,
while none in Arabic.

Seems like of all people on earth only Arabs can't pronounce 'Palestine'.
Ain't that a hilarious coincidence?

 

[admonit]

That (the Beowulf bit) would be "Old English" and the Chaucer bit would be "Middle English".
The point is the further back you go, the less mutually intelligible they are.

Sure. And we could refer to Modern Hebrew, Torah Hebrew or Rabbinical Hebrew. One of the reasons that Hebrew as a living, evolving language was able to be revived, though, was the consistency and continued use of the language over thousands of years. My understanding (and I am no where near a competent Hebrew speaker) is that many (most?) nouns and verbs remain near identical. There were changes in syntax (SVO as opposed to VSO), borrowed terms from other languages and the incorporation of 90,000 new words for modern ideas which didn't exist 3000 years ago, incorporation of vowel markings and punctuation. But the language is recognizably the same.

Maybe rylah or Lipush will come along and enlighten us further.

Basically a kid learning Hebrew today in the 1st grade in Israel,
and a kid who spoke the ancient Hebrew of the Torah,
could immediately have a conversation..

I'm not sure that such conversation would be easy..

"Our findings show two major domains of pedagogic issues: unfamiliar biblical linguistics and problematic content. Teachers reported student difficulties in understanding biblical Hebrew."
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01416200.2015.1134442?src=recsys&journalCode=cbre20

 

[admonit]

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

Just like there is no letter corresponding to the "kh" sound in the English alphabet, although there is a letter "khet" in Hebrew, in the same way there is no letter P in Arabic. This is why the Roman city in the West Bank called Neapolis became Nablus in Arabic. (It was originally called Shekhem by the Israelites.) Arabs don't call the land Palestine because they can't pronounce that name. I believe they call it Falistin. rylah is basically joking around and saying that the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country. It would be like Jews calling our holiday Hanukkah instead of Chanukah because we can't pronounce the name of our very own festival.

Bullshit. My mother tongue is English but that doesn't somehow "prevent" me from pronouncing the kh sound of Arabic, the ü in German, the ñ in Spanish, the zh sound in French, or the nasals in Portuguese.

Good for you! I've had Gentile co-workers who couldn't pronounce Chanukah for the life of them.

It doesn't require an alphabet, all it requires is listening.

It requires training. Of course after appropriate training Arabs can pronounce the sound "p". Even parrots can do it. The point is that "Palestinians" is not an Arab native word. And the point is that this word, a foreign word, is used to name a part of Arab population. Moreover, it's not just a foreign word, but a word originated from their enemy's language.

 

[admonit]

The Israeli Arabs, descendants of the Palestinian Arabs, call themselves Arabs, not "Palestinians". But once you cross the "Green line", the same people suddenly became "Palestinians". "Palestinian people" is a political notion invented with only one political aim: destruction of the Jewish state.

 

[admonit]

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

Well, I don't need to do a survey to know neither cats can speak,
nor can most Arabs pronounce the letter 'p'.

That's just common sense and basic knowledge for anyone born in the middle east.

Excellent, the old "Everybody Knows" fallacy. "It's just common knowledge". You lose.

And you're mired in a cesspool of ethnocentricity if you think that "Arabs" must be speaking in English just because that's what you speak and

rylah is an Israeli and lives in the Middle East. He knows more about Arabs in the area and how they speak than you and I know.

Clearly he doesn't know how language learning works.

I spent considerable time among Arabs, which is where I learnt some Arabic, and while it's kind of a challenge to think of specific conversations involving the letter P, those conversations took place in either English or French, BOTH of which use the letter P, and there was never a time any of us got hung up on it. So his claim is, pun intended, perfidiously preposterous.

P is a plosive, virtually the same as the letter B but with more breath. It's not like it's even hard to do.

And btw I found a source for the ridiculous contention:

Israeli Legislator Argues With Straight Face That Palestine Can’t Exist Because There’s No P in Arabic

>> The remark came during a Knesset debate over a contentious proposal from opposition leader Isaac Herzog for Israel to unilaterally separate from the Palestinians in the absence of a two-state solution. Berko’s argument got an immediate response. “What? Did everyone hear this? Are you an idiot?” replied an MK from the opposition Meretz party. Arab lawmakers walked out in protest, reportedly muttering “P-P-P” under their breath.

The New York Times notes that the statement has been widely mocked in the Hebrew and Arabic media, with some joking that by her logic, there’s no pizza in America because English doesn’t have the Hebrew letter Tzadik, to make a tza sound. Jews might also be in trouble since there’s no J in Hebrew.

It might also blow Berko’s mind to learn that German, Egyptian, Chinese, and Japanese people, among many others, don’t actually refer to themselves by those names. <<
​

Long story short ---- he be trollin'.

While there is no ‘P’ sound, in Arabic, the word for “Palestine” in Arabic is “Falastin,” which also happens to be the similar pronunciation to its sister Semitic language - Hebrew.
​

Happens to be similar? What a ridiculous comment. Of course it is similar, because it's originally a Hebrew word and never was Arabic one.

 

[rylah]

That (the Beowulf bit) would be "Old English" and the Chaucer bit would be "Middle English".
The point is the further back you go, the less mutually intelligible they are.

Sure. And we could refer to Modern Hebrew, Torah Hebrew or Rabbinical Hebrew. One of the reasons that Hebrew as a living, evolving language was able to be revived, though, was the consistency and continued use of the language over thousands of years. My understanding (and I am no where near a competent Hebrew speaker) is that many (most?) nouns and verbs remain near identical. There were changes in syntax (SVO as opposed to VSO), borrowed terms from other languages and the incorporation of 90,000 new words for modern ideas which didn't exist 3000 years ago, incorporation of vowel markings and punctuation. But the language is recognizably the same.

Maybe rylah or Lipush will come along and enlighten us further.

Basically a kid learning Hebrew today in the 1st grade in Israel,
and a kid who spoke the ancient Hebrew of the Torah,
could immediately have a conversation..

I'm not sure that such conversation would be easy..

"Our findings show two major domains of pedagogic issues: unfamiliar biblical linguistics and problematic content. Teachers reported student difficulties in understanding biblical Hebrew."
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01416200.2015.1134442?src=recsys&journalCode=cbre20

Sure 2 people thousands of years apart will initially have difficulties conversing, but it will be a conversation.

The example of kids having difficulties understanding Torah Hebrew, rather confirms that it's actually mostly accessible to them rather than "walking in the dark". It's mostly the same vocabulary, with a bit different syntax.

Israeli kid reads a chapter in the Torah, and can tell You what is the main story about.
The same Israeli kid in 2nd-4th grade, will already have more vocabulary than in all the 5 books of Torah,
a vocabulary specific to his time, but that will cover 95% of what is needed.

On the other hand, I'm not sure an American or British kid could read Shakespeare.