Science Backs Up The Bible Again

[james bond]

saved from what - how is surrendering free will to be saved the same as having free will.

howabout fulfilling their destiny as prescribed by the religion of antiquity as when free will was granted in the garden of eden. or perishing as the alternative and price for the gift. granted to all beings

you ignore the conflicts you have with free will and your religions requirement to relinquish that to a messiah - why was it granted in the first place.

Saved from Satan and his minions.

Wrong, one isn't surrendering their will. They still make the choice. We do not live under determinism or fatalism. Otherwise, you are right in that we have no will. However, God made us like him. He is the only one with free will. He gave us a will.

We have the Resurrection !!!

no, you have a book and nothing more, no physical evidence ... from some backwatter enclave in the middle east not known for any particular accomplishment than smuggling and goat herding. when the capital of the civilized world, Rome was available.

Then, Christianity would've been destroyed centuries ago. The physical evidence is the large boulder being moved. The tomb being empty. We also have the eyewitness testimony of humans. Are you a witness? I can see that you are not!!!

Anyway, you have been proven wrong once again.

 

[Wuwei]

Determinism is like when you want to cross the river, but there is no bridge. You can't just fly over it. It means we have no free will. We choose to fly over, but can't. Thus, our choices are limited.

You are making up your own definition of free will. Communication is not possible when you do that.

The wikipedia definition of Free will:

Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.​

Flying is not a possible course of action, yet you mention it.

Wrong again. They aren't established physics principles. We are discussing QM.

Actually you are wrong again. Time reversal is an established principle.

You probably thought I was referring to TIQM. You have not been paying attention. Of course TIQM or Bell's hypothesis are not established principles.

The other is TIQM and not being able to explain how particles go back in time. How can anything go back in time? It violates Einstein's special relativity theory.

How many times do I have to tell you that in the photons frame of reference there is no concept of space and time. They are both zero. Always. That is what special relativity actually says!!! Forward and backward are only defined and seen by anything or anyone not traveling at the speed of light. I think you are not capable of understanding that.

Google this: does a photon experience space or time. You will get many sites that say something like this:

Does Light Experience Time? - Universe Today

From the perspective of a photon, there is no such thing as time. It's emitted, and might exist for hundreds of trillions of years, but for the photon, there's zero time elapsed between when it's emitted and when it's absorbed again. It doesn't experience distance either.​

Entanglement exists in the photons frame of reference of zero time, so the trillions of years don't matter.

ETA: At least, I try to explain via the graviton on how quantum entanglement happens.

You didn't explain anything. Just a quote from S.H. The graviton is irrelevant to photon physics.

I do realize you can't think outside the box. The microscopic processes of nature evades intuition from the gut. Your thought processes in science are only from gut feel, if you can't see it ... it doesn't exist.

Yes, yes, I know what your reply to my post will be ... "it's pseudoscience." That is your narrow perspective. Not the perspective of science.

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[james bond]

You are making up your own definition of free will. Communication is not possible when you do that.

The wikipedia definition of Free will:
Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.
Flying is not a possible course of action, yet you mention it.

Wikipedia is not a good source. By your own definition, we cannot have free will anyplace we want in the universe. If we wanted to walk on water across the river, then we should be able to using our free will. Obviously, we can't. This demonstrates there is no free will; our will is limited.

I even pointed out atheist Christopher Hitchens joking comment, but it's true regardless. We are limited in our will. Arguing about semantics is boring. Thus, we have determinism. Whatever begins to exist has a cause. Superdeterminism is a theory. That there is no free will, even in the quantum world, and that the best explanation for quantum entanglement is hard determinism. I've explained this every which way to you, but you still do not get it. Do you see what I mean by you are dismissed haha?

Time reversal is an established principle.

You said it happens in the quantum world. Not in principle. This is the religious forum and you have not related it to religion at all. More boredom.

How many times do I have to tell you that in the photons frame of reference there is no concept of space and time. They are both zero. Always. That is what special relativity actually says!!! Forward and backward are only defined and seen by anything or anyone not traveling at the speed of light. I think you are not capable of understanding that.

Google this: does a photon experience space or time. You will get many sites that say something like this:

Does Light Experience Time? - Universe Today
From the perspective of a photon, there is no such thing as time. It's emitted, and might exist for hundreds of trillions of years, but for the photon, there's zero time elapsed between when it's emitted and when it's absorbed again. It doesn't experience distance either.
Entanglement exists in the photons frame of reference of zero time, so the trillions of years don't matter.

Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z. You're getting off the subject. What does this have to do with religion? At least, with superdeterminism in the quantum world, it means no free will (which you agreed), so it is evidence for God.

No, your explanation of a photon and zero time from its viewpoint is not pseudoscience. Your explanation is bizarre and meaningless haha.

You didn't explain anything. Just a quote from S.H. The graviton is irrelevant to photon physics.

I do realize you can't think outside the box. The microscopic processes of nature evades intuition from the gut. Your thought processes in science are only from gut feel, if you can't see it ... it doesn't exist.

Yes, yes, I know what your reply to my post will be ... "it's pseudoscience." That is your narrow perspective. Not the perspective of science.

Show me an experiment with a photon where there is zero time. You can't. I watched the sunset tonight. What I saw was light being emitted from the sun and it took about 8 minutes to reach me. It was beautiful and God's handiwork. Who cares what the photon experienced? It can't tell us anyway haha.

I think one is introducing spacetime to the proton from its view. Spacetime is considered the 4th dimension and where God resides. We have not been able to demonstrate photons being everywhere at once in principle at CERN either.

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[james bond]

Here is the evidence for God as uncaused, beginningless, changless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless, powerful, and personal. What we understand is God appeared to us as the EMS on the first day. God the Father is the gamma spectrum, Jesus is the visible spectrum, and Holy Spirit in the radiowave spectrum. 3 separate beings as one. They reside in the 4th dimension.which we know as timeless and spaceless and what we have been discussing. God has free will and is the only one with it. He can do anything and we are under his will. We are predestined. Like him, we have a will, but it is limited to what we can do and we are able to make choices in our lives. We can't be a movie actor, a sports star, or a #1 author if we do not have the talent. No matter how much will we have, we won't be able to reach it if we do not have the talent. All we can do is do what our will does with our own power. Thus, our lives are predestined by God. He made choices for us already and the most important one is who is saved. Those who are saved use their will to believe in Jesus and that he died for us in order to give us back our salvation. This is all what these discussions are about in a nutshell.

 

[Hollie]

Here is the evidence for God as uncaused, beginningless, changless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless, powerful, and personal. What we understand is God appeared to us as the EMS on the first day. God the Father is the gamma spectrum, Jesus is the visible spectrum, and Holy Spirit in the radiowave spectrum. 3 separate beings as one. They reside in the 4th dimension.which we know as timeless and spaceless and what we have been discussing. God has free will and is the only one with it. He can do anything and we are under his will. We are predestined. Like him, we have a will, but it is limited to what we can do and we are able to make choices in our lives. We can't be a movie actor, a sports star, or a #1 author if we do not have the talent. No matter how much will we have, we won't be able to reach it if we do not have the talent. All we can do is do what our will does with our own power. Thus, our lives are predestined by God. He made choices for us already and the most important one is who is saved. Those who are saved use their will to believe in Jesus and that he died for us in order to give us back our salvation. This is all what these discussions are about in a nutshell.

Only the truly gullible would believe that a silly YouTube video is proof of the gods.

 

[Wuwei]

Wikipedia is not a good source. By your own definition, we cannot have free will anyplace we want in the universe. If we wanted to walk on water across the river, then we should be able to using our free will. Obviously, we can't. This demonstrates there is no free will; our will is limited.

I will go with the Wiki definition with a restriction to physically possible choices in free will. The idea that the physical impossibility should be included in free will is inane.

Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z. You're getting off the subject. What does this have to do with religion?

Yes. We are getting off topic.

Show me an experiment with a photon where there is zero time. You can't. I watched the sunset tonight. What I saw was light being emitted from the sun and it took about 8 minutes to reach me.......

If we are getting off topic, why do you keep bringing it up.

The reason I originally brought up that TIQM idea is to show you that your OP superdeterminism video was only one old unpopular hypothesis among many for a rationale of quantum entanglement. As an old unproven hypothesis, it does not back up the bible, as you claimed.

.

 

[Wuwei]

Here is the evidence for God as uncaused, beginningless, changless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless, powerful, and personal. What we understand is God appeared to us as the EMS on the first day. God the Father is the gamma spectrum, Jesus is the visible spectrum, and Holy Spirit in the radiowave spectrum. 3 separate beings as one. They reside in the 4th dimension.which we know as timeless and spaceless and what we have been discussing. God has free will and is the only one with it. He can do anything and we are under his will. We are predestined. Like him, we have a will, but it is limited to what we can do and we are able to make choices in our lives. We can't be a movie actor, a sports star, or a #1 author if we do not have the talent. No matter how much will we have, we won't be able to reach it if we do not have the talent. All we can do is do what our will does with our own power. Thus, our lives are predestined by God. He made choices for us already and the most important one is who is saved. Those who are saved use their will to believe in Jesus and that he died for us in order to give us back our salvation. This is all what these discussions are about in a nutshell.

The video dwells on what most educated people already were acquainted with for decades -- the universe expanded out of an infinitesimal point. It ends with the centuries old God is a "first cause" argument.

One thing the video misses is that physics can carry cosmic reductionism to the point that the beginning of the big bang is a vacuum fluctuation that reached a critical size and expanded violently from nothing. (Proven to be a viable hypothesis from known physics.)

Physics reductionism ends there, but it leaves some critical questions unanswered, such as how did the ability for that first vacuum fluctuation arise? How did the complex laws of physics get its specific properties such that galaxies, stars, planets, a plethora of elements and a countless variety of molecules can arise?

These are true mysteries now. I have no objection if some want to invoke the first cause and give it a name: God.

However, what the video does not cover is that same God presumably micromanages the lives of people and cares about prayer or other liturgies.

The God as a Big Bang creator simply does not come near to implying a God as a personal spiritual entity.

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[james bond]

The video dwells on what most educated people already were acquainted with for decades -- the universe expanded out of an infinitesimal point. It ends with the centuries old God is a "first cause" argument.

One thing the video misses is that physics can carry cosmic reductionism to the point that the beginning of the big bang is a vacuum fluctuation that reached a critical size and expanded violently from nothing. (Proven to be a viable hypothesis from known physics.)

Physics reductionism ends there, but it leaves some critical questions unanswered, such as how did the ability for that first vacuum fluctuation arise? How did the complex laws of physics get its specific properties such that galaxies, stars, planets, a plethora of elements and a countless variety of molecules can arise?

These are true mysteries now. I have no objection if some want to invoke the first cause and give it a name: God.

However, what the video does not cover is that same God presumably micromanages the lives of people and cares about prayer or other liturgies.

The God as a Big Bang creator simply does not come near to implying a God as a personal spiritual entity.

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Science did not create science. Humans did it in order to honor God.

God is not the big bang creator. There was no big bang. He created the universe, Earth, and everything in it in six days. I don't think you can believe because all you believe is science. It does not lead you anywhere of importance in your life. Your avatar shows a man practicing tai chi which is to let the spirit flow. How can one do this without God? He is the life force within you. His breath of life is the only thing which creates life. How does one start to put things together that one learns in life? It starts with faith and if one prays for God to reveal themselves, then he will. One has to have faith first.

 

[james bond]

I will go with the Wiki definition with a restriction to physically possible choices in free will. The idea that the physical impossibility should be included in free will is inane.

That's fine. A bird will have a will that will allow it to fly over the river. Its choices as determined by prior causes allows him to do that, but it cannot swim across. A human or a dog by their will may be able to swim across if the current isn't so strong as to be dangerous. However, if you go by what wiki states, then you will realize everyone's possible choices are limited choices. Your choices could be more than mine. Some rich person because of his wealth may have even more choices. Yet, we are all limited. How can limited will be free will by its definition: freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention. You agreed there is no free will in the universe. The believers believe everything has been under divine intervention. He is the first cause. We live under determinism and superdeterminism in the quantum world. It is what it is.

Yes. We are getting off topic.

What does all this have to do with your religion? You sound agnostic, but there must be something you believe. Science is just a means to an end. It isn't the end.

If we are getting off topic, why do you keep bringing it up.

The reason I originally brought up that TIQM idea is to show you that your OP superdeterminism video was only one old unpopular hypothesis among many for a rationale of quantum entanglement. As an old unproven hypothesis, it does not back up the bible, as you claimed.

This was your claim. I don't know what kinds of beliefs it leads to. Some people are superstitious and it leads to a belief in false gods, some idol, or doing something like finding a four-leaf clover that will lead to good fortune.

Besides, your TIQM idea does not replace superdeterminism. Just because it is an old theory does not make it less of a theory. It could be a better theory as it has stood the test of time like the Bible theory. Superdeterminism is a better theory than communications traveling faster than light. Or its due to something we do not know yet until we find the great unification theory for everything. Superdeterminism is the best theory in the quantum world (and I gave you some possibilities that scientists are working on. Determinism is the best theory in physics and our physical world. God, in his infinite wisdom, designed it that way.

 

[BreezeWood]

Thus, our lives are predestined by God.

no, that is determined by the religion of antiquity as prescribed ... the metaphysical is correct.

He (They) made choices for us already and the most important one is who is saved.

no, the choice was made by all living beings on planet Earth, adam and eve - the decision is for who triumphs over evil, the religion of antiquity as prescribed - purity without sin. is required for admission, the Everlasting. satan is dead.

Those who are saved use their will to believe in Jesus and that he died for us in order to give us back our salvation. This is all what these discussions are about in a nutshell.

he died for us in order to give us back our salvation ...

that is neither possible nor desired by the decisions made by adam and eve and all the living beins on planet Earth to seek their own destiny in their lifetime and will be judged through the religion of antiquity - not that of the christian roman empire.

jesus died as a messiah and will not return as the Almighty, from the metaphysical as any entity were it possible.

 

[Wuwei]

Science did not create science. Humans did it in order to honor God.

God is not the big bang creator. There was no big bang. He created the universe, Earth, and everything in it in six days. I don't think you can believe because all you believe is science. It does not lead you anywhere of importance in your life. Your avatar shows a man practicing tai chi which is to let the spirit flow. How can one do this without God? He is the life force within you. His breath of life is the only thing which creates life. How does one start to put things together that one learns in life? It starts with faith and if one prays for God to reveal themselves, then he will. One has to have faith first.

I consider the Bible as metaphor. I'm not going to argue your interpretation.

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[james bond]

no, that is determined by the religion of antiquity as prescribed ... the metaphysical is correct.

Your religion of antiquity is wrong; it isn't solely determined by good or evil actions. Those who will make it have been chosen by God and predestined. One has to believe in Jesus in order to be predestined.

no, the choice was made by all living beings on planet Earth, adam and eve - the decision is for who triumphs over evil, the religion of antiquity as prescribed - purity without sin. is required for admission, the Everlasting. satan is dead.

Adam's choice gave us sin. We were doomed to all be spiritually dead until we were saved by Christ Jesus. One cannot be made pure, without sin, unless it's by Jesus.

that is neither possible nor desired by the decisions made by adam and eve and all the living beins on planet Earth to seek their own destiny in their lifetime and will be judged through the religion of antiquity - not that of the christian roman empire.

jesus died as a messiah and will not return as the Almighty, from the metaphysical as any entity were it possible.

This is why the religion of antiquity is wrong and has been since we met haha.

 

[james bond]

I consider the Bible as metaphor. I'm not going to argue your interpretation.

Metaphor for what exactly? It should be for God's word first and foremost. Second is best scientific theory.

 

[Wuwei]

You agreed there is no free will in the universe.

I did? In the universe? I only consider the idea that free will pertains to people or animals that have achieved a certain degree of development.

What does all this have to do with your religion? You sound agnostic, but there must be something you believe. Science is just a means to an end. It isn't the end.

Science is exploring the rules of the natural world. Right, we haven't reached the end yet. I have been in awe of the continuing unfolding developments in science for many decades.

Besides, your TIQM idea does not replace superdeterminism. Just because it is an old theory does not make it less of a theory.

It's not my idea. Both are old hypotheses. There are many more. A mere hypothesis does not back the Bible. That was always my major point to your OP.

It could be a better theory as it has stood the test of time like the Bible theory. Superdeterminism is a better theory than communications traveling faster than light. Or its due to something we do not know yet until we find the great unification theory for everything. Superdeterminism is the best theory in the quantum world (and I gave you some possibilities that scientists are working on. Determinism is the best theory in physics and our physical world. God, in his infinite wisdom, designed it that way.

All I can say to this is that I disagree. To me, science points the way to understanding all phases of the universe. The Bible does not.

Metaphor for what exactly? It should be for God's word first and foremost. Second is best scientific theory.

The opening words of Genesis has metaphorical days instead of billions of years etc. I'm saying any aspects of the Bible that may have a connection with science is well over 2000 years old and has been updated by discoveries since then.

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[james bond]

I did? In the universe? I only consider the idea that free will pertains to people or animals that have achieved a certain degree of development.

Haha. You are the one going backwards in regards to information.

Free will is more than that which people or animals have. What we have is determinism and probably superdeterminism or hard determinism in the quantum world, so no free will.

Science is exploring the rules of the natural world. Right, we haven't reached the end yet. I have been in awe of the continuing unfolding developments in science for many decades.

Natural laws exist because we have creator God who is logical and has imposed order on His universe.

"The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1

I think you are in awe of what humans tell you in science which today is mostly BS. Alas, you will not believe in the truth.

It's not my idea. Both are old hypotheses. There are many more. A mere hypothesis does not back the Bible. That was always my major point to your OP.

See, I just confirmed it. You were not chosen by God.

All I can say to this is that I disagree. To me, science points the way to understanding all phases of the universe. The Bible does not.

How wrong you are!!! You are misled by Satan's lies and trickery. I demonstrated here that the Bible is God's word and science backs up the Bible in the quantum world with quantum entanglement. Superdeterminism is best theory. You presented what exactly?

The opening words of Genesis has metaphorical days instead of billions of years etc. I'm saying any aspects of the Bible that may have a connection with science is well over 2000 years old and has been updated by discoveries since then.

Then the Bible has withstood the test of time. It cannot change while science changes. This is the atheist's lament as what they believed to be true ends up as lies and they end up spiritually dead. The Bible discusses the antiChrist, so I assume that he will have his chosen ones, too. They are already predestined for the other place. It never occurred to me until now.

 

[xband]

no, that is determined by the religion of antiquity as prescribed ... the metaphysical is correct.

Your religion of antiquity is wrong; it isn't solely determined by good or evil actions. Those who will make it have been chosen by God and predestined. One has to believe in Jesus in order to be predestined.

no, the choice was made by all living beings on planet Earth, adam and eve - the decision is for who triumphs over evil, the religion of antiquity as prescribed - purity without sin. is required for admission, the Everlasting. satan is dead.

Adam's choice gave us sin. We were doomed to all be spiritually dead until we were saved by Christ Jesus. One cannot be made pure, without sin, unless it's by Jesus.

that is neither possible nor desired by the decisions made by adam and eve and all the living beins on planet Earth to seek their own destiny in their lifetime and will be judged through the religion of antiquity - not that of the christian roman empire.

jesus died as a messiah and will not return as the Almighty, from the metaphysical as any entity were it possible.

This is why the religion of antiquity is wrong and has been since we met haha.

It was Eve who ate the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge and not Adam, and then Eden, exploded.

 

[Hollie]

I did? In the universe? I only consider the idea that free will pertains to people or animals that have achieved a certain degree of development.

Haha. You are the one going backwards in regards to information.

Free will is more than that which people or animals have. What we have is determinism and probably superdeterminism or hard determinism in the quantum world, so no free will.

Science is exploring the rules of the natural world. Right, we haven't reached the end yet. I have been in awe of the continuing unfolding developments in science for many decades.

Natural laws exist because we have creator God who is logical and has imposed order on His universe.

"The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1

I think you are in awe of what humans tell you in science which today is mostly BS. Alas, you will not believe in the truth.

It's not my idea. Both are old hypotheses. There are many more. A mere hypothesis does not back the Bible. That was always my major point to your OP.

See, I just confirmed it. You were not chosen by God.

All I can say to this is that I disagree. To me, science points the way to understanding all phases of the universe. The Bible does not.

How wrong you are!!! You are misled by Satan's lies and trickery. I demonstrated here that the Bible is God's word and science backs up the Bible in the quantum world with quantum entanglement. Superdeterminism is best theory. You presented what exactly?

The opening words of Genesis has metaphorical days instead of billions of years etc. I'm saying any aspects of the Bible that may have a connection with science is well over 2000 years old and has been updated by discoveries since then.

Then the Bible has withstood the test of time. It cannot change while science changes. This is the atheist's lament as what they believed to be true ends up as lies and they end up spiritually dead. The Bible discusses the antiChrist, so I assume that he will have his chosen ones, too. They are already predestined for the other place. It never occurred to me until now.

What's interesting about the Adam and Eve fable is that in connection with the outcome of the fruit theft, the serpent told the truth. God lied. How ironic.

 

[xband]

I did? In the universe? I only consider the idea that free will pertains to people or animals that have achieved a certain degree of development.

Haha. You are the one going backwards in regards to information.

Free will is more than that which people or animals have. What we have is determinism and probably superdeterminism or hard determinism in the quantum world, so no free will.

Science is exploring the rules of the natural world. Right, we haven't reached the end yet. I have been in awe of the continuing unfolding developments in science for many decades.

Natural laws exist because we have creator God who is logical and has imposed order on His universe.

"The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1

I think you are in awe of what humans tell you in science which today is mostly BS. Alas, you will not believe in the truth.

It's not my idea. Both are old hypotheses. There are many more. A mere hypothesis does not back the Bible. That was always my major point to your OP.

See, I just confirmed it. You were not chosen by God.

All I can say to this is that I disagree. To me, science points the way to understanding all phases of the universe. The Bible does not.

How wrong you are!!! You are misled by Satan's lies and trickery. I demonstrated here that the Bible is God's word and science backs up the Bible in the quantum world with quantum entanglement. Superdeterminism is best theory. You presented what exactly?

The opening words of Genesis has metaphorical days instead of billions of years etc. I'm saying any aspects of the Bible that may have a connection with science is well over 2000 years old and has been updated by discoveries since then.

Then the Bible has withstood the test of time. It cannot change while science changes. This is the atheist's lament as what they believed to be true ends up as lies and they end up spiritually dead. The Bible discusses the antiChrist, so I assume that he will have his chosen ones, too. They are already predestined for the other place. It never occurred to me until now.

What's interesting about the Adam and Eve fable is that in connection with the outcome of the fruit theft, the serpent told the truth. God lied. How ironic.

There is truth behind every legend.

 

[james bond]

It was Eve who ate the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge and not Adam, and then Eden, exploded.

Wrong. Adam ate the fruit after Eve and her explanation of what Satan said. He was the first human and representative of the human race. Thus, we all have sin.

And It Was Good!
Chick.com: And It Was Good!

 

[james bond]

What's interesting about the Adam and Eve fable is that in connection with the outcome of the fruit theft, the serpent told the truth. God lied. How ironic.

Creator Or Liar?
Chick.com: Creator or Liar?