Revisionist History...America is not founded upon Christian values

[Flopper]

The Torah and the Old Testament had far more influence on the Constitution and Declaration of Independence than Christ's teaching.

Jewish Roots of the American Constitution « The State of America

The old testament is the torah

Not quite. The Torah refers to the first 5 books of Moses.

The Torah is also known as the Pentateuch.

 

[AllieBaba]

Pentateuch.
That's the word I was looking for.

 

[Old Rocks]

Red herring. Nobody said the Constitution mentioned Christ.

Next.

The Christian Nation Myth


These beliefs were forcefully articulated by Thomas Paine in Age of Reason, a book that so outraged his contemporaries that he died rejected and despised by the nation that had once revered him as "the father of the American Revolution." To this day, many mistakenly consider him an atheist, even though he was an out spoken defender of the Deistic view of God. Other important founding fathers who espoused Deism were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, James Madison, and James Monroe.

Fundamentalist Christians are currently working overtime to convince the American public that the founding fathers intended to establish this country on "biblical principles," but history simply does not support their view. The men mentioned above and others who were instrumental in the founding of our nation were in no sense Bible-believing Christians. Thomas Jefferson, in fact, was fiercely anti-cleric. In a letter to Horatio Spafford in 1814, Jefferson said, "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes" (George Seldes, The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey Citadel Press, 1983, p. 371). In a letter to Mrs. Harrison Smith, he wrote, "It is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read. By the same test the world must judge me. But this does not satisfy the priesthood. They must have a positive, a declared assent to all their interested absurdities. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest" (August 6, 1816).

Jefferson was just as suspicious of the traditional belief that the Bible is "the inspired word of God." He rewrote the story of Jesus as told in the New Testament and compiled his own gospel version known as The Jefferson Bible, which eliminated all miracles attributed to Jesus and ended with his burial. The Jeffersonian gospel account contained no resurrection, a twist to the life of Jesus that was considered scandalous to Christians but perfectly sensible to Jefferson's Deistic mind. In a letter to John Adams, he wrote, "To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, God, are immaterial is to say they are nothings, or that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise" (August 15, 1820). In saying this, Jefferson was merely expressing the widely held Deistic view of his time, which rejected the mysticism of the Bible and relied on natural law and human reason to explain why the world is as it is. Writing to Adams again, Jefferson said, "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (April 11, 1823). These were hardly the words of a devout Bible-believer.

Jefferson didn't just reject the Christian belief that the Bible was "the inspired word of God"; he rejected the Christian system too. In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33). Anyone today who would make a statement like this or others we have quoted from Jefferson's writings would be instantly branded an infidel, yet modern Bible fundamentalists are frantically trying to cast Jefferson in the mold of a Bible believing Christian. They do so, of course, because Jefferson was just too important in the formation of our nation to leave him out if Bible fundamentalists hope to sell their "Christian-nation" claim to the public. Hence, they try to rewrite history to make it appear that men like Thomas Jefferson had intended to build our nation on "biblical principles." The irony of this situation is that the Christian leaders of Jefferson's time knew where he stood on "biblical principles," and they fought desperately, but unsuccessfully, to prevent his election to the presidency. Saul K. Padover's biography related the bitterness of the opposition that the clergy mounted against Jefferson in the campaign of 1800

 

[AllieBaba]

How does that support the claim that the US was not founded upon Christian values?

Do you have verification that Jefferson was lying when he said it was? Because he, and everybody else, did say that it was.

Were they all lying? do you have evidence to show that although they said they were using Christian tenets to structure the country, they actually had some other plan in mind and were purposefully *pulling the wool* over everybody's eyes when each of them SAID THEY WERE FOUNDING THE COUNTRY USING CHRISTIAN VALUES???

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, I suppose that if this nation were actually founded on Christian beliefs, that it has long forgotten them. Were you to compare the hits on sites with sexual content to those professing religion, I think you would find the nation has voted with it's Mouses (mice? LOL).

 

[AllieBaba]

Again, what does that have to do with anything?

 

[Intense]

I guess the question is: What is wrong with Christian values? Peace, love, turn the other cheek, help your neighbor, etc.

The Communists Revolutionaries believed they could change the world by making it a more peacefull and just place. By eliminating government by the powerful elite-wealthy and making everybody "equal" requiring brotherly love and fair sharing among the people. Ofcourse they needed a strong central government to enforce these strict moral rules, just like the Christians need a strong and strict fatherly "God" to watch over them.

America was not founded on "Christian" principals, but upon the ideas of the French Encylopedists who forsaw a new formula for society based upon individual freedoms which included freedom from government enforced religion. One must understand that the American Revolution, (like the French Revolution), was a major turning point in Western Civilization. The Old Feudal Order, which based its legitimcy upon "Good Christian Authority" was crumbling. (the reason Jews, who refused to convert, were always in trouble with authority).

The Europe which existed between the fall of the Pax Romanus Order (around 475 AD), and the outbreak of the Capitalists revolutions of the 18th century, was a Europe ruled over almost exclusively by the Catholic Church. "The Holy Mother Church" owned all the land and apointed all its masters; its princes, its kings, its Lords, all drew their authority and legitimacy from recognition by the Pope in Rome. Later on you had Protestant Potentates, but the system was the same.

With the invention of Movable Type Printing by Gutenberg in 1500, the world started to change rapidly. The spread of this new technology spurned a new "Information Revolution" by making books cheap and plentyful and pamphlets and papers available and leading to the founding of discussion salons (and later intellectual coffee houses), all over Europe. This movement and evolution, led to the "Age of Enlightenment" and directly to the fall of the Old Feudal System.


This is why our U.S. Constitution garantees seperation of church from state, thank you.

There is more English reason than French that brought us to where we are. Why make false claims??? Separation of Church and State came from Locke's Interpretation of Scripture. Give it a break.

 

[peach174]

Oh ...I understand now

Religion is majority rules in this country. Our founding fathers decided that we would have a vote on which religion would be taught in our schools

That must have been in that history that Madeline Murray O'Hair had covered up

Well I see that what I said went over your head. That is not what I said at all.

I'm afraid what you said was either an outright lie or a simplistic Christian interpretation of how our country was founded.
Our country is a Republic and the majority does not rule over the minority. The majority selects representatives who make the rules. Our courts protect the rights of the minority.

You think that we did not have Muslims, Jews and atheists at the founding of our nation?
We did, but they agreed that in order for them to have those religious freedoms , that Christianity was the root of this nation

Do you actually believe that Muslims, Jews and Atheists traded off their religious freedoms in return for Christians being be the root of our nation? You can only have religious freedoms if you agree Christians are the root of the nation?

That is an embarassment to the principles this country was founded upon

YOU ARE NOT GETTING IT
Muslims,Jews and Atheists did not trade off anything for their freedom.
You dropped the part where I said there is a connection between God and Liberty.
Our political and human rights come from a power higher than human government.
This was the very basis of our constitutional government.
You must have Biblical morality or liberty cannot survive without a divine connection.
This is why schools taught the bible and our courts had the ten commandments displayed.
the most important of them was to honor your parents, then,
you shall not commit murder, nor adultery, or steal and to have a good relationship with your neighbor.
It is all about not hurting others.
Its about freedom for all of us as a society by teaching these commandments.

 

[Flopper]

Yeah. Anyway. Your opinion of what constitutes Christianity is a completely different topic. But just for the record, let it show that Christians believe that God & Christ are Father and Son, with the Holy Spirit they are God, separate and yet one. Not that it matters. We all know the FF were referring to the Christian God.

Reading about our founders, I doubt very seriously that they intended to found a nation based on Christian principals, but if by Christian principals you are speaking of just human rights, I agree. However, Christianity is not only religion that believes in human rights.

Jefferson was a Deist.

Adams rejected many fundamental doctrines of Christianity, such as the Trinity and divinity of Jesus.

Franklin formulated a presentation of his beliefs and published it in 1728. It did not mention many of the Puritan ideas as regards belief in salvation, hell, the divinity of Jesus, and indeed most religious dogma. He clarified himself as a Deist in his 1771 autobiography.

Alexander Hamilton from 1777 to 1792 appeared to be completely indifferent to religion and made jokes about God at the Constitutional Convention.

George Washington throughout his life had little to say about his religious beliefs.

 

[Intense]

Because we hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, "that religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence." The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right. It is unalienable, because the opinions of men, depending only on the evidence contemplated by their own minds cannot follow the dictates of other men: It is unalienable also, because what is here a right towards men, is a duty towards the Creator. It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considerd as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governour of the Universe: And if a member of Civil Society, do it with a saving of his allegiance to the Universal Sovereign. We maintain therefore that in matters of Religion, no man's right is abridged by the institution of Civil Society and that Religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance. True it is, that no other rule exists, by which any question which may divide a Society, can be ultimately determined, but the will of the majority; but it is also true that the majority may trespass on the rights of the minority.

Because Religion be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body. The latter are but the creatures and vicegerents of the former. Their jurisdiction is both derivative and limited: it is limited with regard to the co-ordinate departments, more necessarily is it limited with regard to the constituents. The preservation of a free Government requires not merely, that the metes and bounds which separate each department of power be invariably maintained; but more especially that neither of them be suffered to overleap the great Barrier which defends the rights of the people. The Rulers who are guilty of such an encroachment, exceed the commission from which they derive their authority, and are Tyrants. The People who submit to it are governed by laws made neither by themselves nor by an authority derived from them, and are slaves.

Because it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of Citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The free men of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entagled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much soon to forget it. Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever? ..........

Religious Freedom Page: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison (1785)

 

[Intense]

Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Declaration of Independence
Religious Affiliation # of
signers % of
signers
Episcopalian/Anglican 32 57.1%
Congregationalist 13 23.2%
Presbyterian 12 21.4%
Quaker 2 3.6%
Unitarian or Universalist 2 3.6%
Catholic 1 1.8%
TOTAL 56 100%

Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

 

[Flopper]

Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Declaration of Independence
Religious Affiliation # of
signers % of
signers
Episcopalian/Anglican 32 57.1%
Congregationalist 13 23.2%
Presbyterian 12 21.4%
Quaker 2 3.6%
Unitarian or Universalist 2 3.6%
Catholic 1 1.8%
TOTAL 56 100%

Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

In America in the 1700's, just about every historic figure has been associated with some religion by historians. Since there were only a thousand or so Jews in America and only a handful of Muslims and other religions, it was pretty much Christianity or nothing. Christianity was the only game in town, but that does not mean that our founder shared Christian beliefs. To the contrary, there is much evidence that suggest otherwise. The last thing the founders wanted was a nation rooted in any religious belief.

There is ample evidence that our founder believed in a supreme being and thus saw nothing wrong with using the word God in the Declaration of Independence. The world God does not appear in Constitution. Christ does not appear in either document. If our founders intended that we be a Christian nation, don't you think they would mentioned Christ in these documents?

 

[AllieBaba]

Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Declaration of Independence
Religious Affiliation # of
signers % of
signers
Episcopalian/Anglican 32 57.1%
Congregationalist 13 23.2%
Presbyterian 12 21.4%
Quaker 2 3.6%
Unitarian or Universalist 2 3.6%
Catholic 1 1.8%
TOTAL 56 100%

Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

In America in the 1700's, just about every historic figure has been associated with some religion by historians. Since there were only a thousand or so Jews in America and only a handful of Muslims and other religions, it was pretty much Christianity or nothing. Christianity was the only game in town, but that does not mean that our founder shared Christian beliefs. To the contrary, there is much evidence that suggest otherwise. The last thing the founders wanted was a nation rooted in any religious belief.

There is ample evidence that our founder believed in a supreme being and thus saw nothing wrong with using the word God in the Declaration of Independence. The world God does not appear in Constitution. Christ does not appear in either document. If our founders intended that we be a Christian nation, don't you think they would mentioned Christ in these documents?

We don't have to guess. We know, because they told us.

They didn't put it in the constitution because it is fundamental to Christianity that faith be voluntary, not forced. And because they knew the dangers of theocracy. But there is more to the foundation of this country than just the constitution. There was all the work that took place before the constitution, and there's the declaration.

But they STATED, OVER AND OVER AND OVER, that they were structuring the country on CHRISTIAN principles.

Do you think they were lying when they said that? Do you think that it's impossible to structure a country using Christian ideals without it being a theocracy?

 

[rightwinger]

Well I see that what I said went over your head. That is not what I said at all.

I'm afraid what you said was either an outright lie or a simplistic Christian interpretation of how our country was founded.
Our country is a Republic and the majority does not rule over the minority. The majority selects representatives who make the rules. Our courts protect the rights of the minority.

You think that we did not have Muslims, Jews and atheists at the founding of our nation?
We did, but they agreed that in order for them to have those religious freedoms , that Christianity was the root of this nation

Do you actually believe that Muslims, Jews and Atheists traded off their religious freedoms in return for Christians being be the root of our nation? You can only have religious freedoms if you agree Christians are the root of the nation?

That is an embarassment to the principles this country was founded upon

YOU ARE NOT GETTING IT
Muslims,Jews and Atheists did not trade off anything for their freedom.
You dropped the part where I said there is a connection between God and Liberty.
Our political and human rights come from a power higher than human government.
This was the very basis of our constitutional government.
You must have Biblical morality or liberty cannot survive without a divine connection.
This is why schools taught the bible and our courts had the ten commandments displayed.
the most important of them was to honor your parents, then,
you shall not commit murder, nor adultery, or steal and to have a good relationship with your neighbor.
It is all about not hurting others.
Its about freedom for all of us as a society by teaching these commandments.

Wow......boy were you indoctrinated

Do you really believe there could be no Liberty without biblical morality? Do you think those who do not follow the bible cannot be moral?

Ten commandments in schools? Have you ever read them? If so, why do you think they should be taught in schools? REALLY read them and tell me why ALL children should be forced to learn them

 

[Flopper]

Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Declaration of Independence
Religious Affiliation # of
signers % of
signers
Episcopalian/Anglican 32 57.1%
Congregationalist 13 23.2%
Presbyterian 12 21.4%
Quaker 2 3.6%
Unitarian or Universalist 2 3.6%
Catholic 1 1.8%
TOTAL 56 100%

Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

In America in the 1700's, just about every historic figure has been associated with some religion by historians. Since there were only a thousand or so Jews in America and only a handful of Muslims and other religions, it was pretty much Christianity or nothing. Christianity was the only game in town, but that does not mean that our founder shared Christian beliefs. To the contrary, there is much evidence that suggest otherwise. The last thing the founders wanted was a nation rooted in any religious belief.

There is ample evidence that our founder believed in a supreme being and thus saw nothing wrong with using the word God in the Declaration of Independence. The world God does not appear in Constitution. Christ does not appear in either document. If our founders intended that we be a Christian nation, don't you think they would mentioned Christ in these documents?

We don't have to guess. We know, because they told us.

They didn't put it in the constitution because it is fundamental to Christianity that faith be voluntary, not forced. And because they knew the dangers of theocracy. But there is more to the foundation of this country than just the constitution. There was all the work that took place before the constitution, and there's the declaration.

But they STATED, OVER AND OVER AND OVER, that they were structuring the country on CHRISTIAN principles.

Do you think they were lying when they said that? Do you think that it's impossible to structure a country using Christian ideals without it being a theocracy?

When you say Christian ideals what are you taking about?

 

[uscitizen]

He is obvously talking about god ordering his followerrs to slay all who did not flee before them?
Women, children and even animals.

 

[Intense]

Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Declaration of Independence
Religious Affiliation # of
signers % of
signers
Episcopalian/Anglican 32 57.1%
Congregationalist 13 23.2%
Presbyterian 12 21.4%
Quaker 2 3.6%
Unitarian or Universalist 2 3.6%
Catholic 1 1.8%
TOTAL 56 100%

Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

In America in the 1700's, just about every historic figure has been associated with some religion by historians. Since there were only a thousand or so Jews in America and only a handful of Muslims and other religions, it was pretty much Christianity or nothing. Christianity was the only game in town, but that does not mean that our founder shared Christian beliefs. To the contrary, there is much evidence that suggest otherwise. The last thing the founders wanted was a nation rooted in any religious belief.

There is ample evidence that our founder believed in a supreme being and thus saw nothing wrong with using the word God in the Declaration of Independence. The world God does not appear in Constitution. Christ does not appear in either document. If our founders intended that we be a Christian nation, don't you think they would mentioned Christ in these documents?

We don't have to guess. We know, because they told us.

They didn't put it in the constitution because it is fundamental to Christianity that faith be voluntary, not forced. And because they knew the dangers of theocracy. But there is more to the foundation of this country than just the constitution. There was all the work that took place before the constitution, and there's the declaration.

But they STATED, OVER AND OVER AND OVER, that they were structuring the country on CHRISTIAN principles.

Do you think they were lying when they said that? Do you think that it's impossible to structure a country using Christian ideals without it being a theocracy?

Flopper seems too fare gone to be able to comprehend. Too many years of programing and being lied to.

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't know, but it's alarming. I would have thought that anyone can learn, but I see over and over that there are people who reach a certain level and decide to stay..right...there. They have no desire to learn anything more, to review their own understanding of the world, or even to be truthful or correct

I don't see how people can live like that.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't know, but it's alarming. I would have thought that anyone can learn, but I see over and over that there are people who reach a certain level and decide to stay..right...there. They have no desire to learn anything more, to review their own understanding of the world, or even to be truthful or correct

I don't see how people can live like that.

We are trying to teach you the facts, but you are too damn stubborn. But given time, you will come around

 

[AllieBaba]

Your very name is a lie. I'll get my facts elsewhere.