Revisionist History...America is not founded upon Christian values

[AllieBaba]

The very first congress ordered the printing of Bibles to be taught in the schools.
The Bible was taught in our schools from the beginning of the nation, until Madeline Murray O'Hair took it to the courts because she thought it was unconstitutional.
Our founding fathers and 1st continental congress probably rolled in their graves when this ruling came out. They all said that in order for our nation to work the way it was set up that your had to have Christian values in order for it to work.

American Thinker: The Judeo-Christian Values of America

Do you agree the Koran should be taught in our schools?
Should Jewish teachers be able to teach that Jesus is not the son of God?
Should atheist teachers be able to teach children that there is no God?

When did we start arguing about whether or not religion should be taught in school?

Off topic.

 

[rightwinger]

The very first congress ordered the printing of Bibles to be taught in the schools.
The Bible was taught in our schools from the beginning of the nation, until Madeline Murray O'Hair took it to the courts because she thought it was unconstitutional.
Our founding fathers and 1st continental congress probably rolled in their graves when this ruling came out. They all said that in order for our nation to work the way it was set up that your had to have Christian values in order for it to work.

American Thinker: The Judeo-Christian Values of America

Do you agree the Koran should be taught in our schools?
Should Jewish teachers be able to teach that Jesus is not the son of God?
Should atheist teachers be able to teach children that there is no God?

You think that we did not have Muslims, Jews and atheists at the founding of our nation?
We did, but they agreed that in order for them to have those religious freedoms , that Christianity was the root of this nation. That there is a connection between God and Liberty.
Our political philosophy of majority rules over the minority is why they did not teach the other religions, but you had to freedom to worship the way you wanted to or not at all.
This was freedom for all. Now because of O'Hair, Christian's no longer have freedom and have been attacked ever since.

Oh ...I understand now

Religion is majority rules in this country. Our founding fathers decided that we would have a vote on which religion would be taught in our schools

That must have been in that history that Madeline Murray O'Hair had covered up

 

[Flopper]

The Torah and the Old Testament had far more influence on the Constitution and Declaration of Independence than Christ's teaching.

Jewish Roots of the American Constitution « The State of America

 

[rightwinger]

The Torah and the Old Testament had far more influence on the Constitution and Declaration of Independence than Christ's teaching.

Jewish Roots of the American Constitution « The State of America

So this proves that America was founded on Jewish values

Thanks for clarifying

 

[peach174]

The Torah and the Old Testament had far more influence on the Constitution and Declaration of Independence than Christ's teaching.

Jewish Roots of the American Constitution « The State of America

The old testament is the torah

 

[peach174]

Do you agree the Koran should be taught in our schools?
Should Jewish teachers be able to teach that Jesus is not the son of God?
Should atheist teachers be able to teach children that there is no God?

You think that we did not have Muslims, Jews and atheists at the founding of our nation?
We did, but they agreed that in order for them to have those religious freedoms , that Christianity was the root of this nation. That there is a connection between God and Liberty.
Our political philosophy of majority rules over the minority is why they did not teach the other religions, but you had to freedom to worship the way you wanted to or not at all.
This was freedom for all. Now because of O'Hair, Christian's no longer have freedom and have been attacked ever since.

Oh ...I understand now

Religion is majority rules in this country. Our founding fathers decided that we would have a vote on which religion would be taught in our schools

That must have been in that history that Madeline Murray O'Hair had covered up

Well I see that what I said went over your head. That is not what I said at all.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The Torah and the Old Testament had far more influence on the Constitution and Declaration of Independence than Christ's teaching.

Jewish Roots of the American Constitution « The State of America

The old testament is the torah

Wrong.........the Torah is the first 5 books of the Bible. The rest of the OT is a history of the Jewish people.

 

[peach174]

The Torah and the Old Testament had far more influence on the Constitution and Declaration of Independence than Christ's teaching.

Jewish Roots of the American Constitution « The State of America

The old testament is the torah

Wrong.........the Torah is the first 5 books of the Bible. The rest of the OT is a history of the Jewish people.

The Torah is the first 5 books of Moses and the tanakh is the hebrew bible. Which is what the old testeamnet is.

 

[AllieBaba]

The Torah and the Old Testament had far more influence on the Constitution and Declaration of Independence than Christ's teaching.

Jewish Roots of the American Constitution « The State of America

The old testament is the torah

Wrong.........the Torah is the first 5 books of the Bible. The rest of the OT is a history of the Jewish people.

I thought the first 5 books were called the Petrarch?

I think? Something like that?

 

[AllieBaba]

You think that we did not have Muslims, Jews and atheists at the founding of our nation?
We did, but they agreed that in order for them to have those religious freedoms , that Christianity was the root of this nation. That there is a connection between God and Liberty.
Our political philosophy of majority rules over the minority is why they did not teach the other religions, but you had to freedom to worship the way you wanted to or not at all.
This was freedom for all. Now because of O'Hair, Christian's no longer have freedom and have been attacked ever since.

Oh ...I understand now

Religion is majority rules in this country. Our founding fathers decided that we would have a vote on which religion would be taught in our schools

That must have been in that history that Madeline Murray O'Hair had covered up

Well I see that what I said went over your head. That is not what I said at all.

It didn't go over his head. He's lying about what you said because he can't effectively address the issue and have the outcome be the way he wants it.

This is why he's called Liewinger, or Rightliar.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The old testament is the torah

Wrong.........the Torah is the first 5 books of the Bible. The rest of the OT is a history of the Jewish people.

The Torah is the first 5 books of Moses and the tanakh is the hebrew bible. Which is what the old testeamnet is.

The name Torah (Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, "Instruction"; English pronunciation: /ˈtɔːrə/), also known as the Pentateuch (Greek: Πεντάτευχος from πεντα- penta- [five] and τεῦχος teuchos [tool, vessel, book]),[1] refers to the Five Books of Moses[2] — the entirety of Judaism's founding legal and ethical religious texts.[3][4] A "Sefer Torah" (סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה, "book of Torah") or Torah scroll is a copy of the Torah written on parchment in a formal, traditional manner by a specially trained scribe under strict requirements.

The Tanakh (Hebrew: תַּנַ"ךְ*, pronounced [taˈnaχ] or [təˈnax]; also Tenakh, Tenak, Tanach) is a name used in Judaism for the canon of the Hebrew Bible. The Tanakh is also known as the Masoretic Text or the Miqra. The name is an acronym formed from the initial Hebrew letters of the Masoretic Text's three traditional subdivisions: The Torah ("Teaching", also known as the Five Books of Moses), Nevi'im ("Prophets") and Ketuvim ("Writings")—hence TaNaKh. The name "Miqra" (מקר&#1488, meaning "that which is read", is an alternative Hebrew term for the Tanakh. The books of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) were relayed with an accompanying oral tradition passed on by each generation, called the Oral Torah.

According to the Talmud,[1] much of the contents of the Tanakh were compiled by the "Men of the Great Assembly" by 450 BCE, and have since remained unchanged. Modern scholars believe that the process of canonization of the Tanakh became finalized between 200 BCE and 200 CE, see Development of the Jewish canon for details.

Wikipedia is your friend.

The Old Testament or Hebrew Scriptures are the collection of books that forms the first of the two-part Christian Biblical canon. The contents of the Old Testament canon vary from church to church, with the Orthodox communion having 51 books: the shared books are those of the shortest canon, that of the major Protestant communions, with 39 books. Christians hold different views of the Old Testament or Old Covenant in contrast to the New Covenant.

All Old Testament canons are related to the Jewish Bible Canon (Tanakh), but with variations. The most important of these variations is a change to the order of the books: the Hebrew Bible ends with the Book of Chronicles, which describes Israel restored to the Promised Land and the Temple restored in Jerusalem; in the Hebrew Bible God's purpose is thus fulfilled and the divine history is at an end, according to Dispensationalism and Supersessionism (see Jewish Eschatology for Jewish beliefs on the subject). In the Christian Old Testament the Book of Malachi is placed last, so that a prophecy of the coming of the Messiah leads into the birth of the Christ in the Gospel of Matthew.

 

[AllieBaba]

Be careful of wiki tho...always want to back it up with other sources IF the information is the least bit controversial/debatable.

Just saying.

 

[peach174]

So your point is.............? They are the same books rearranged or not, they are the same stories.

 

[ABikerSailor]

So your point is.............? They are the same books rearranged or not, they are the same stories.

[quoteAll Old Testament canons are related to the Jewish Bible Canon (Tanakh), but with variations][/quote]

Are you saying that because they're related, they're the same? Wrong. Read the post from wiki again.

 

[peach174]

So your point is.............? They are the same books rearranged or not, they are the same stories.

[quoteAll Old Testament canons are related to the Jewish Bible Canon (Tanakh), but with variations]

Are you saying that because they're related, they're the same? Wrong. Read the post from wiki again.[/QUOTE]

How about you read both books and you will see that they are the same books.

 

[AllieBaba]

Regardless, it has nothing to do with whether or not the country was founded upon Christian principle.

 

[rightwinger]

You think that we did not have Muslims, Jews and atheists at the founding of our nation?
We did, but they agreed that in order for them to have those religious freedoms , that Christianity was the root of this nation. That there is a connection between God and Liberty.
Our political philosophy of majority rules over the minority is why they did not teach the other religions, but you had to freedom to worship the way you wanted to or not at all.
This was freedom for all. Now because of O'Hair, Christian's no longer have freedom and have been attacked ever since.

Oh ...I understand now

Religion is majority rules in this country. Our founding fathers decided that we would have a vote on which religion would be taught in our schools

That must have been in that history that Madeline Murray O'Hair had covered up

Well I see that what I said went over your head. That is not what I said at all.

I'm afraid what you said was either an outright lie or a simplistic Christian interpretation of how our country was founded.
Our country is a Republic and the majority does not rule over the minority. The majority selects representatives who make the rules. Our courts protect the rights of the minority.

You think that we did not have Muslims, Jews and atheists at the founding of our nation?
We did, but they agreed that in order for them to have those religious freedoms , that Christianity was the root of this nation

Do you actually believe that Muslims, Jews and Atheists traded off their religious freedoms in return for Christians being be the root of our nation? You can only have religious freedoms if you agree Christians are the root of the nation?

That is an embarassment to the principles this country was founded upon

 

[ROBESPIERRE]

I guess the question is: What is wrong with Christian values? Peace, love, turn the other cheek, help your neighbor, etc.

The Communists Revolutionaries believed they could change the world by making it a more peacefull and just place. By eliminating government by the powerful elite-wealthy and making everybody "equal" requiring brotherly love and fair sharing among the people. Ofcourse they needed a strong central government to enforce these strict moral rules, just like the Christians need a strong and strict fatherly "God" to watch over them.

America was not founded on "Christian" principals, but upon the ideas of the French Encylopedists who forsaw a new formula for society based upon individual freedoms which included freedom from government enforced religion. One must understand that the American Revolution, (like the French Revolution), was a major turning point in Western Civilization. The Old Feudal Order, which based its legitimcy upon "Good Christian Authority" was crumbling. (the reason Jews, who refused to convert, were always in trouble with authority).

The Europe which existed between the fall of the Pax Romanus Order (around 475 AD), and the outbreak of the Capitalists revolutions of the 18th century, was a Europe ruled over almost exclusively by the Catholic Church. "The Holy Mother Church" owned all the land and apointed all its masters; its princes, its kings, its Lords, all drew their authority and legitimacy from recognition by the Pope in Rome. Later on you had Protestant Potentates, but the system was the same.

With the invention of Movable Type Printing by Gutenberg in 1500, the world started to change rapidly. The spread of this new technology spurned a new "Information Revolution" by making books cheap and plentyful and pamphlets and papers available and leading to the founding of discussion salons (and later intellectual coffee houses), all over Europe. This movement and evolution, led to the "Age of Enlightenment" and directly to the fall of the Old Feudal System.


This is why our U.S. Constitution garantees seperation of church from state, thank you.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Another fall of the feudal system has already started with the internet and YouTube. Matter of fact, this one is taking hold world wide.

How else do you explain all these countries revolting against the dictators and rulers?

 

[Flopper]

The Torah and the Old Testament had far more influence on the Constitution and Declaration of Independence than Christ's teaching.

Jewish Roots of the American Constitution « The State of America

The old testament is the torah

Not quite. The Torah refers to the first 5 books of Moses.