Revisionist History...America is not founded upon Christian values

[AllieBaba]

Despite the words of the FF to the contrary, despite the fact that almost every state constitution refers to God, despite the fact that our Declaration refers to God, the revisionists want to say that we were not founded upon Christian values.

They apparently think that if we acknowledge that fact, it makes us a theocracy. Of course it doesn't, that's ridiculous. But this is the standard for the brain washed loons.

Anyway, we were founded upon Christian principles, and no, that does not make us a theocracy nor does it mean the FF wanted a theocracy (they most certainly did not). Unfortunately, the left has issues with the language and with truth in general, so I don't think they will every be able to conceptualize this.

Interesting:

"There are several issues on which I refuse to compromise, but when it comes to discussing the details of government budgets or even immigration and the War in Iraq, I am hardly offended when someone disagrees with me. In fact, I often thoroughly enjoy such conversations, provided I am dealing with someone who is intellectually honest. However, the kind of blatant revisionism in question is beyond irritating; indeed, it is representative of intellectual dishonesty at its absolute worst.

"
Consider, for example, the words of Adams himself. In one of several letters to Thomas Jefferson, as Adams and Jefferson reminisced about America’s fight for independence and the signing of the Declaration of Independence, Adams wrote:

The general Principles, on which the Fathers Atchieved [sic] Independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite . . . . And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all those Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence. Now I will avow, that I then believed, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
Three Conservatives - America’s Christian Heritage Debunked?
​

 

[AllieBaba]

"
For some brief clarification: the Treaty of Tripoli became necessary due to the United States’ problems with the Barbary Pirates (Islamic pirates who operated primarily out of portions of Northern Africa). The pirates preyed on ships in the region, in addition to kidnapping Christians for the purposes of trading them as slaves. Initially, the United States chose the path of least resistance, paying tribute to the pirates in exchange for safe passage. Early on, we were very dedicated to using this form of “diplomacy” to address the situation, as our navy was still fairly weak. As an indication of just how much we were willing to pay, it is said that, “by the time Thomas Jefferson became president, the United States had paid sponsoring rogue nations a sum exceeding 20 percent of its annual tax revenue.”
Because much of the reasoning behind the pirates’ actions revolved around their hatred of Christians, particularly those involved in the Crusades, the United States stood to benefit greatly from successfully convincing the pirates that we were not an officially Christian nation and, moreover, that the Christianity practiced in America differed greatly from that of the European Christians with whom the pirates were particularly antagonistic. Thus, the semicolon in Article 11 becomes very important, as the words render something to the effect of:
As the United States’ government does not officially sanction Christianity, insomuch as we have no specific hatred toward Islam and have never taken any aggressive action toward an Islamic nation, it is agreed that there is no religious pretext for war between the two parties.
In addition to our obvious desire to peacefully resolve the dispute with the Barbary pirates, my premise is further backed up by the fact that even Adams clearly viewed the conflict as a clash of religious ideals. As he wrote to Thomas Jefferson:
The policy of Christendom has made cowards of all their sailors before the standard of Mahomet. It would be heroical and glorious in us to restore courage to ours.
One must also consider the wording of other documents from the Barbary conflicts, including both the truce and treaty with Tunis. The truce includes the following wording:

The glory of the princes of the Christian nation, the selected chief among the community of Jesus, Washington, the present ruler of America-may his days end with blessings-being desirous and wishing to negotiate a treaty of peace in order to lay the foundations of friendship and to strengthen the sincere amity with the frontier post of the Holy War, the victorious garrison of Tunis the well-preserved, just as our friends, the other Christian Governments, have done the same with our victorious garrison, has confided the negotiations of the said treaty to his Consul Barlow, residing in Algiers, and the said Consul again teas confided the negotiations of the treaty to the French merchant, Joseph Famin, residing in Tunis the well-preserved.
​

In the treaty with Tunis, the following wording is included:

…and the most distinguished and honored President of the Congress of the United States of America, the most distinguished among those who profess the religion of the Messiah, of whom may the end be happy.
​

Both the truce and treaty with Tunis were part of the same conflict and both were enacted shortly after the Treaty with Tripoli.
In the end, it seems that article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli is misunderstood, misrepresented, and abused. "

Three Conservatives - America’s Christian Heritage Debunked?

 

[rightwinger]

Where does the Constitution mention Christ?

 

[AllieBaba]

Red herring. Nobody said the Constitution mentioned Christ.

Next.

 

[Liberty]

I guess the question is: What is wrong with Christian values? Peace, love, turn the other cheek, help your neighbor, etc.

 

[ABikerSailor]

If we're supposed to be a Christian country, founded on Christian values, why allow freedom of religion?

 

[ABikerSailor]

I guess the question is: What is wrong with Christian values? Peace, love, turn the other cheek, help your neighbor, etc.

Yeah......but many "Christians" today either spin, twist or warp the words of the Bible, and in doing so, warp the values as well.

By the way.........Rush LimpIdiot is a good example of that. The other day he asked "what would Jesus TAKE".

In his "Rewrite" segment last night, MSNBC's "Last Word" host Lawrence O'Donnell pounded out a 9-minute-long sermonette against conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh.

O'Donnell slammed Limbaugh as biblically illiterate, reacting to a monologue from his April 25 program in which Limbaugh complained about liberals co-opting Jesus Christ for political purposes in the federal budget debate, posing questions such as "What Would Jesus Cut" from the budget.

"What would Jesus take?" Limbaugh countered, answering "nothing." O'Donnell vehemently disagreed, going on to cite Scripture references -- divorcing them from context -- in order to argue Jesus was a fan of "progressive taxation," among other things.



Read more: MSNBC's O'Donnell Slams Limbaugh As Biblically Ignorant; Contorts Scripture to Paint Jesus As Socialist | NewsBusters.org

MSNBC's O'Donnell Slams Limbaugh As Biblically Ignorant; Contorts Scripture to Paint Jesus As Socialist | NewsBusters.org

With people like that speaking for the GOP, it's easy to see how the message gets twisted.

 

[Liberty]

You can twist whatever you want, those are still the real Christian values though.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You can twist whatever you want, those are still the real Christian values though.

Then why is it that so few actually DO them as they are originally stated?

 

[Liberty]

You can twist whatever you want, those are still the real Christian values though.

Then why is it that so few actually DO them as they are originally stated?

Because they contradict human nature and it takes effort. Even I don't live by them but I wish I did.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You can twist whatever you want, those are still the real Christian values though.

Then why is it that so few actually DO them as they are originally stated?

Because they contradict human nature and it takes effort. Even I don't live by them but I wish I did.

Interestingly enough, I generally follow them because they're good ideas. If you always tell the truth, you don't have to remember the lies. If you don't commit adultery, you don't end up in trouble.

If you always tell the truth (even when you don't want to), you end up being respected.

Sounds easier to live by them rather than come up with excuses like human nature to compensate for your failures.

I figured it out when I was 31, with the help of some very good mentors.

 

[rightwinger]

Red herring. Nobody said the Constitution mentioned Christ.

Next.

God is not Christ. To be founded as a Christian nation our documents would say "Lord" or "Christ" or "Jesus" they refer to a generic God which does not invoke Christianity

The values you speak of are Jewish and not Christian

 

[AllieBaba]

Fuck off you disingenuous tard.

That is completely irrelevant.

 

[rightwinger]

Fuck off you disingenuous tard.

That is completely irrelevant.

You have no concept of what you are talking about. How is using the word "God" in any way Christian?

Your ignorance is appalling.

Are you actually that thick that you think Christians are the only ones with values?

You are really a pathetic excuse for a Christian

 

[AllieBaba]

Yeah. Anyway. Your opinion of what constitutes Christianity is a completely different topic. But just for the record, let it show that Christians believe that God & Christ are Father and Son, with the Holy Spirit they are God, separate and yet one. Not that it matters. We all know the FF were referring to the Christian God.

 

[rightwinger]

Yeah. Anyway. Your opinion of what constitutes Christianity is a completely different topic. But just for the record, let it show that Christians believe that God & Christ are Father and Son, with the Holy Spirit they are God, separate and yet one. Not that it matters. We all know the FF were referring to the Christian God.

Anyone with the slightest understanding of US history knows they are intentionally NOT talking about a Christian God

 

[AllieBaba]

Uh..ok.

 

[ogibillm]

what uniquely christian values were we founded upon?

 

[AllieBaba]

Who said anything about *uniquely*?

The founding fathers founded this country using Christian values.

Is someone going to deny that they said that's what they were doing?

And will someone please explain why we should brand them as liars for doing so?

 

[rightwinger]

Who said anything about *uniquely*?

The founding fathers founded this country using Christian values.

Is someone going to deny that they said that's what they were doing?

And will someone please explain why we should brand them as liars for doing so?

Values that EVERY major religion had in common?