Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians

RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※ Coyote, et al,

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is an long and dragged-out event → causing great suffering, destruction, pain and anguish.

Where is the black and white? Who is bad? Who is good?
(COMMENT)

Few wars (I can't even think of one tight now) have this quality where one side is seen as being in the absolute "right;" with the OPFOR being seen as not logical or reasonable. All wars are a tragedy in which diplomacy has failed.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
You are talking about Immigrating to Israel from countries where they face persecution, not refugees. We are responsible for immigrants to our country. Shouldn’t Israel be?

You pointed out a number of times that Palestine should fund its own programs rather than get aid. Shouldn’t the same apply to Israel?
Are you an idiot?
The US takes in very few refugees.
Israel is expected, by you and other nut cases, to takes in millions and commit national suicide.
And why aren’t you expecting the rest of the Arab nations to take in refugees?

It might behoove you to actually read the discussion before opening your mouth and proving you haven’t. What you just said has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
I have been and all I see is your bleeding heart bullshit.
Not one Arab organization is spending money on Gaza or the West Bank population except to meet their bare mininum needs.
It’s not the Jews responsibility to babysit people that no one else wants.
There are territory conflicts all over the African continent, the Arab world and the Balkans that go back to WWI and all anybody wants to discuss is how to spend Jewish money.

I don’t think you have read the right thread. No one is talking about spending Jewish money.
You are discussing who, including the US, is responsible for the displaced bomb makers.
The fact is Israel supplies them with water,
Electricty and health care.
I say screw them; it’s been 50 years and everyone of their leaders has simply pilfered all the money given them by the US.
The US has made an investment in the Arab world in general that has had zero returns.
Electricity and water: supplies or controls?
 
RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

That is a "No Win" question.

Do you believe Israel is always right?
(COMMENT)

NO!

v/r
R

I agree, but while I hear plenty of (often valid) criticism of the Palestinians, criticism of Israel is met with fierce denial and redirection.
The criticism on Israel is encountered according to the validity of the accusations.

Valid criticism is accepted.

Any and all criticism needs to be met with a grain of salt, depending on what the criticism is and who is making the allegations.
 
RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

That is a "No Win" question.

Do you believe Israel is always right?
(COMMENT)

NO!

v/r
R

I agree, but while I hear plenty of (often valid) criticism of the Palestinians, criticism of Israel is met with fierce denial and redirection.
The criticism on Israel is encountered according to the validity of the accusations.

Valid criticism is accepted.

Any and all criticism needs to be met with a grain of salt, depending on what the criticism is and who is making the allegations.

I was going to say, depends on the criticism.

How they deal with their homeless population, for instance.
 
Are you an idiot?
The US takes in very few refugees.
Israel is expected, by you and other nut cases, to takes in millions and commit national suicide.
And why aren’t you expecting the rest of the Arab nations to take in refugees?

It might behoove you to actually read the discussion before opening your mouth and proving you haven’t. What you just said has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
I have been and all I see is your bleeding heart bullshit.
Not one Arab organization is spending money on Gaza or the West Bank population except to meet their bare mininum needs.
It’s not the Jews responsibility to babysit people that no one else wants.
There are territory conflicts all over the African continent, the Arab world and the Balkans that go back to WWI and all anybody wants to discuss is how to spend Jewish money.

I don’t think you have read the right thread. No one is talking about spending Jewish money.
You are discussing who, including the US, is responsible for the displaced bomb makers.
The fact is Israel supplies them with water,
Electricty and health care.
I say screw them; it’s been 50 years and everyone of their leaders has simply pilfered all the money given them by the US.
The US has made an investment in the Arab world in general that has had zero returns.
Electricity and water: supplies or controls?
Jordan had "West Bank" for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

Egypt had Gaza for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

1967 - Israel take over both due to war.
It builds the infrastructure for electricity and water for the population.

Now, you answer me.....

Is it to supply the population or to control them?
 
It might behoove you to actually read the discussion before opening your mouth and proving you haven’t. What you just said has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
I have been and all I see is your bleeding heart bullshit.
Not one Arab organization is spending money on Gaza or the West Bank population except to meet their bare mininum needs.
It’s not the Jews responsibility to babysit people that no one else wants.
There are territory conflicts all over the African continent, the Arab world and the Balkans that go back to WWI and all anybody wants to discuss is how to spend Jewish money.

I don’t think you have read the right thread. No one is talking about spending Jewish money.
You are discussing who, including the US, is responsible for the displaced bomb makers.
The fact is Israel supplies them with water,
Electricty and health care.
I say screw them; it’s been 50 years and everyone of their leaders has simply pilfered all the money given them by the US.
The US has made an investment in the Arab world in general that has had zero returns.
Electricity and water: supplies or controls?
Jordan had "West Bank" for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

Egypt had Gaza for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

1967 - Israel take over both due to war.
It builds the infrastructure for electricity and water for the population.

Now, you answer me.....

Is it to supply the population or to control them?

Apart from importing water from Turkey, Israel also has a desalination plant. (I've seen this system successfully employed in Malta, which has no natural water supply whatsoever)

Couldn't the Gazans have something like that, paid for with some of the money given to the PA?
 
RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

In the case of in which America is the Ally of Israel, and Israel in return is an ally of America, the issue of honesty is important because it creates a relationship of mutual trust.


“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”e
............................................................................................Leo Tolstoy
Does that mean you support the ally no matter what they do?
(COMMENT)

Of course not. BUT, it does mean that America must look at the issues from the perspective of the ally (Israel); and not be confused by trying to think like the Arab Palestinians or appreciate the enemy perspective.

The Tolstoy quote is informing on both sides.
(COMMENT)

The Israelis are of the western style of democracy. America has a rich history that has grown to recognize the necessity to protects minority rights [one Jewish State (pop ≈ 8M people) surrounded by four Arab League Members (pop ≈ 144M people)] by ensuring that there is equal participation in various democratic processes. The minority is represented in various branches of governance. Much of American support is in the form of international political weight, while the other major area requires America ensures Israel has a Qualitative Military Edge (QME) with a capacity strong enough to adequately defending themselves.

Much has been made of American munitions used by the Israelis. Yes, it is true that America is a doorway to that QME.

America provides political support against the majority of nations that attempt to use the color of law against the minority that seek refuge in the Jewish National Home. America has learned (and is still learning) the folly of using pretense or appearance of right against the survivability of the minority.

Most people do not realize that Israel only Ranks 88th (out of 155) nations in terms of its force size. That laces it right below Switzerland (IS 3.6M vs CH 3.615M). Egypt Ranks 14th (42M), Jordan Ranks 93d (3.3M), Syria Ranks 49th (11.6M) and Ranks 108th at (2.2M). That does not include the other 18 Arab Leagu Members or the theocratic Republic of Iran Ranked 13th (47M). The QME is critical in fending of the threats of not so friendly nations.​

Why should we not be an honest broker? When we are not, the results are seldom enduring. You can’t have true and lasting peace if it is one-sided.
(COMMENT)

It is one-sided (unquestionably), and America had nothing to do with the morality of that outcome.

In the eyes of the Arab Palestinians, America will never be an impartial mediator so long as it supports Israel. And in the light of that argument, and in the interest of transparency, America SHOULD recuse itself as having a conflict of interest (Ally to Israel) and lack of impartiality (Honesty support for Israel). This is no different (only with the opposite orientation) than the position held by a majority of the Arab League and the Russian Federation. And this is no different when America stood alone against the other 14 Members of the Security Council opposing Resolution S/RES/2334 (2016).

Most Respectfully,
R

On your first paragraph: Allies and Enemies. The Palestinians are our enemies? How? What have they done to us? Is Qatar our enemy since our allies Egypt and Saudi Arabia decided to lay siege to it? What about Yemen, since our ally Saudi Arabia has conducted a particularly horrific bombing campaign there? Does a country, who has done no harm to us automatically become “our enemy” because an ally is involved in a war with us?

On the issue of honesty: Israel’s attempts to scupper the Iran deal. What kind of ally does that? I am not denying Israel is a good ally, but they also have their own national priorities to consider as do the Palestinians and a simple view of them as either ally or enemy doesn’t begin to cover the reality of complex relationships and when you are trying to create something as complicated as a peace deal, that view hinders rather than helps.

On the issue of enemy: who are our enemies?
Four Nations Top U.S.'s Greatest Enemy List

Americans Think These Are the USA's Most Dangerous Enemies

I don’t see any official lists but the Palestinians don’t seem to feature.

If we look at it from the perspective of an ally...at what point do we decide that that perspective might be creating a worse situation rather than a better one and what do we do? Example, settlement building in disputed territories is, despite arguments to the contrary, a big obstacle to peace from the Palestinian perspective.

I agree, America can not ever be an honest broker so perhaps it should stay out of the conflict.

Right now, we have removed all aid without regard to individual programs, without a coherent strategy in place, and it will be devasting. Aid is a powerful tool for diplomacy and change if it is done with a strategy in mind. Aid can be selectively removed from certain areas, aid can promised as a result of certain reforms being made (even better when in connection with Arab allies) - but that is not being done. What is being done is vindictive, without a real strategy, and no long term plan.
 
It might behoove you to actually read the discussion before opening your mouth and proving you haven’t. What you just said has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
I have been and all I see is your bleeding heart bullshit.
Not one Arab organization is spending money on Gaza or the West Bank population except to meet their bare mininum needs.
It’s not the Jews responsibility to babysit people that no one else wants.
There are territory conflicts all over the African continent, the Arab world and the Balkans that go back to WWI and all anybody wants to discuss is how to spend Jewish money.

I don’t think you have read the right thread. No one is talking about spending Jewish money.
You are discussing who, including the US, is responsible for the displaced bomb makers.
The fact is Israel supplies them with water,
Electricty and health care.
I say screw them; it’s been 50 years and everyone of their leaders has simply pilfered all the money given them by the US.
The US has made an investment in the Arab world in general that has had zero returns.
Electricity and water: supplies or controls?
Jordan had "West Bank" for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

Egypt had Gaza for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

1967 - Israel take over both due to war.
It builds the infrastructure for electricity and water for the population.

Now, you answer me.....

Is it to supply the population or to control them?

Why do the Palestinians not have control over water? Flac Allen pointed that out early in the thread. I will find the post.
 
I have been and all I see is your bleeding heart bullshit.
Not one Arab organization is spending money on Gaza or the West Bank population except to meet their bare mininum needs.
It’s not the Jews responsibility to babysit people that no one else wants.
There are territory conflicts all over the African continent, the Arab world and the Balkans that go back to WWI and all anybody wants to discuss is how to spend Jewish money.

I don’t think you have read the right thread. No one is talking about spending Jewish money.
You are discussing who, including the US, is responsible for the displaced bomb makers.
The fact is Israel supplies them with water,
Electricty and health care.
I say screw them; it’s been 50 years and everyone of their leaders has simply pilfered all the money given them by the US.
The US has made an investment in the Arab world in general that has had zero returns.
Electricity and water: supplies or controls?
Jordan had "West Bank" for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

Egypt had Gaza for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

1967 - Israel take over both due to war.
It builds the infrastructure for electricity and water for the population.

Now, you answer me.....

Is it to supply the population or to control them?

Apart from importing water from Turkey, Israel also has a desalination plant. (I've seen this system successfully employed in Malta, which has no natural water supply whatsoever)

Couldn't the Gazans have something like that, paid for with some of the money given to the PA?
They could and they should.
 
RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

That is a "No Win" question.

Do you believe Israel is always right?
(COMMENT)

NO!

v/r
R

I agree, but while I hear plenty of (often valid) criticism of the Palestinians, criticism of Israel is met with fierce denial and redirection.
The criticism on Israel is encountered according to the validity of the accusations.

Valid criticism is accepted.

Any and all criticism needs to be met with a grain of salt, depending on what the criticism is and who is making the allegations.
That is a matter of perspective. What do you consider valid criticism?
 
I have been and all I see is your bleeding heart bullshit.
Not one Arab organization is spending money on Gaza or the West Bank population except to meet their bare mininum needs.
It’s not the Jews responsibility to babysit people that no one else wants.
There are territory conflicts all over the African continent, the Arab world and the Balkans that go back to WWI and all anybody wants to discuss is how to spend Jewish money.

I don’t think you have read the right thread. No one is talking about spending Jewish money.
You are discussing who, including the US, is responsible for the displaced bomb makers.
The fact is Israel supplies them with water,
Electricty and health care.
I say screw them; it’s been 50 years and everyone of their leaders has simply pilfered all the money given them by the US.
The US has made an investment in the Arab world in general that has had zero returns.
Electricity and water: supplies or controls?
Jordan had "West Bank" for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

Egypt had Gaza for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

1967 - Israel take over both due to war.
It builds the infrastructure for electricity and water for the population.

Now, you answer me.....

Is it to supply the population or to control them?

Why do the Palestinians not have control over water? Flac Allen pointed that out early in the thread. I will find the post.
Because they use their skills for tunnels...true story.
 
Are you an idiot?
The US takes in very few refugees.
Israel is expected, by you and other nut cases, to takes in millions and commit national suicide.
And why aren’t you expecting the rest of the Arab nations to take in refugees?

It might behoove you to actually read the discussion before opening your mouth and proving you haven’t. What you just said has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
I have been and all I see is your bleeding heart bullshit.
Not one Arab organization is spending money on Gaza or the West Bank population except to meet their bare mininum needs.
It’s not the Jews responsibility to babysit people that no one else wants.
There are territory conflicts all over the African continent, the Arab world and the Balkans that go back to WWI and all anybody wants to discuss is how to spend Jewish money.

I don’t think you have read the right thread. No one is talking about spending Jewish money.
You are discussing who, including the US, is responsible for the displaced bomb makers.
The fact is Israel supplies them with water,
Electricty and health care.
I say screw them; it’s been 50 years and everyone of their leaders has simply pilfered all the money given them by the US.
The US has made an investment in the Arab world in general that has had zero returns.
Electricity and water: supplies or controls?
Supply electricity, maintain water quality.
The the Arab world couldn’t bother.
Egypt has told Gaza togo to hell.
 
RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

That is a "No Win" question.

Do you believe Israel is always right?
(COMMENT)

NO!

v/r
R

I agree, but while I hear plenty of (often valid) criticism of the Palestinians, criticism of Israel is met with fierce denial and redirection.
The criticism on Israel is encountered according to the validity of the accusations.

Valid criticism is accepted.

Any and all criticism needs to be met with a grain of salt, depending on what the criticism is and who is making the allegations.
That is a matter of perspective. What do you consider valid criticism?
For someone who claims to have “done research” you seem to not know an immense amount concerning the context of this topic.
 
I don’t think you have read the right thread. No one is talking about spending Jewish money.
You are discussing who, including the US, is responsible for the displaced bomb makers.
The fact is Israel supplies them with water,
Electricty and health care.
I say screw them; it’s been 50 years and everyone of their leaders has simply pilfered all the money given them by the US.
The US has made an investment in the Arab world in general that has had zero returns.
Electricity and water: supplies or controls?
Jordan had "West Bank" for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

Egypt had Gaza for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

1967 - Israel take over both due to war.
It builds the infrastructure for electricity and water for the population.

Now, you answer me.....

Is it to supply the population or to control them?

Apart from importing water from Turkey, Israel also has a desalination plant. (I've seen this system successfully employed in Malta, which has no natural water supply whatsoever)

Couldn't the Gazans have something like that, paid for with some of the money given to the PA?
They could and they should.
Gaza has desalination plants and solar power. Not enough, but a start. (supplied mostly by Europe.)

The Palestinians have always used cisterns as a water source in Gaza, the West Bank, and the Negev. Israel regularly destroys cisterns. Israel destroys wells also.

Solar power has been installed in villages in the West Bank and the Negev. Israel destroys those.
 
RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

That is a "No Win" question.

Do you believe Israel is always right?
(COMMENT)

NO!

v/r
R

I agree, but while I hear plenty of (often valid) criticism of the Palestinians, criticism of Israel is met with fierce denial and redirection.
The criticism on Israel is encountered according to the validity of the accusations.

Valid criticism is accepted.

Any and all criticism needs to be met with a grain of salt, depending on what the criticism is and who is making the allegations.
That is a matter of perspective. What do you consider valid criticism?
Whatever is based on the truth.
 
I have been and all I see is your bleeding heart bullshit.
Not one Arab organization is spending money on Gaza or the West Bank population except to meet their bare mininum needs.
It’s not the Jews responsibility to babysit people that no one else wants.
There are territory conflicts all over the African continent, the Arab world and the Balkans that go back to WWI and all anybody wants to discuss is how to spend Jewish money.

I don’t think you have read the right thread. No one is talking about spending Jewish money.
You are discussing who, including the US, is responsible for the displaced bomb makers.
The fact is Israel supplies them with water,
Electricty and health care.
I say screw them; it’s been 50 years and everyone of their leaders has simply pilfered all the money given them by the US.
The US has made an investment in the Arab world in general that has had zero returns.
Electricity and water: supplies or controls?
Jordan had "West Bank" for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

Egypt had Gaza for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

1967 - Israel take over both due to war.
It builds the infrastructure for electricity and water for the population.

Now, you answer me.....

Is it to supply the population or to control them?

Apart from importing water from Turkey, Israel also has a desalination plant. (I've seen this system successfully employed in Malta, which has no natural water supply whatsoever)

Couldn't the Gazans have something like that, paid for with some of the money given to the PA?
Let us not forget the money Hamas should be getting from Iran.
Where does that go?
 
RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

Any country that has fought a series of conventional attacks, AND in the background, a continuous series of low-intensity asymmetric engagements, conflicts → that will have been involved in events that are uncompromisingly wrong and events that are indefensible. It has been over seventy years now that the conflict rages. And Israel is due their share of "Criticism." No country in history of can be on the defensive, for 70 years, against against both sparatic high intensity conventional Mechanized ground war, supremacy for the skies, protection from the sea-borne threat and still have to face the violent struggle among state and non-state actors for legitimacy and influence over the future political processes and the defense of a nation.

Unfortunately YES!

No country facing the continuous level and magnitude of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters can honestly say that every decision made over that duration of time (70 years) can state that every decision made was morally correct and justifiably enacted. Israel has implemented actions that have, from time to time, uncompromisingly wrong and indefensible.

I agree, but while I hear plenty of (often valid) criticism of the Palestinians, criticism of Israel is met with fierce denial and redirection.
(COMMENT)

But remember. The Arab Palestinians have been continuously hostile. Since the adoption of tactics that included the calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.

An overwhelming majority of the actions taken by the Arab Palestinians are violations of some law, but is overlooked by those passing judgment on Israel under the color of law. In fact, the Arab Palestinians do it so often that it becomes almost socially acceptable for that behavior.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
I have been and all I see is your bleeding heart bullshit.
Not one Arab organization is spending money on Gaza or the West Bank population except to meet their bare mininum needs.
It’s not the Jews responsibility to babysit people that no one else wants.
There are territory conflicts all over the African continent, the Arab world and the Balkans that go back to WWI and all anybody wants to discuss is how to spend Jewish money.

I don’t think you have read the right thread. No one is talking about spending Jewish money.
You are discussing who, including the US, is responsible for the displaced bomb makers.
The fact is Israel supplies them with water,
Electricty and health care.
I say screw them; it’s been 50 years and everyone of their leaders has simply pilfered all the money given them by the US.
The US has made an investment in the Arab world in general that has had zero returns.
Electricity and water: supplies or controls?
Jordan had "West Bank" for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

Egypt had Gaza for 19 years. No electricity or water supplied to the needy population.

1967 - Israel take over both due to war.
It builds the infrastructure for electricity and water for the population.

Now, you answer me.....

Is it to supply the population or to control them?

Why do the Palestinians not have control over water? Flac Allen pointed that out early in the thread. I will find the post.
It is a matter of having control over clean water.
They have not built infrastructure responsible to deal with all the trash and pollution which ends up in their water which makes it non drinkable.
The same with the PA.

In the West Bank, Palestinians continually throw trash into the water which pollutes it and ends up in the Israeli water system.
Same as in Gaza.

https://psmag.com/environment/the-growing-pollution-problem-in-gaza

----------
But the worst problem, according to the report, is Hebron, which has nearly 170,000 inhabitants. Its waste includes toxic runoff from industries including stonecutting and leatherworking. More than 80 of the city’s 100 stone-cutting plants send their waste into pirate drainage pools, from which it flows into the Hebron Stream and then to Israel. Waste from the Hebron area alone has contaminated around 43 kilometers of streams.

Jewish settlements also contribute to the problem: 13 percent of their sewage goes into the environment rather than to treatment plants.

Israel has tried to cope with the problem by building treatment plants near the Green Line separating Israel from the West Bank and treating the contaminated water once it enters Israel. But the facility built to treat the Hebron Stream − the most polluted of all − can’t handle the volume of waste it receives. Contaminated water reaches nearby communities, emitting a stench and attracting mosquitoes.

Attempts at Israeli-Palestinian cooperation on this issue have largely gone nowhere, mainly because the Palestinian Authority refuses to cooperate with the settlements. Thus it refused to connect Palestinian towns in the northern West Bank to an Israeli sewage line because the line also serves several settlements. It also nixed a proposed treatment plant that would serve both Palestinian towns and the settlement of Ariel.

Most Palestinian sewage in West Bank untreated, contaminating water along Green Line
 
RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

Any country that has fought a series of conventional attacks, AND in the background, a continuous series of low-intensity asymmetric engagements, conflicts → that will have been involved in events that are uncompromisingly wrong and events that are indefensible. It has been over seventy years now that the conflict rages. And Israel is due their share of "Criticism." No country in history of can be on the defensive, for 70 years, against against both sparatic high intensity conventional Mechanized ground war, supremacy for the skies, protection from the sea-borne threat and still have to face the violent struggle among state and non-state actors for legitimacy and influence over the future political processes and the defense of a nation.

Unfortunately YES!

No country facing the continuous level and magnitude of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters can honestly say that every decision made over that duration of time (70 years) can state that every decision made was morally correct and justifiably enacted. Israel has implemented actions that have, from time to time, uncompromisingly wrong and indefensible.

I agree, but while I hear plenty of (often valid) criticism of the Palestinians, criticism of Israel is met with fierce denial and redirection.
(COMMENT)

But remember. The Arab Palestinians have been continuously hostile. Since the adoption of tactics that included the calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.

An overwhelming majority of the actions taken by the Arab Palestinians are violations of some law, but is overlooked by those passing judgment on Israel under the color of law. In fact, the Arab Palestinians do it so often that it becomes almost socially acceptable for that behavior.

Most Respectfully,
R
But remember. The Arab Palestinians have been continuously hostile, blah, blah, blah.
You only say that because you believe that the Palestinians have no right to defend themselves.
 

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