PsychoMalarkey

[Samson]

unless you are psychotic or are on drugs/alcohol at the time of an event, if a psychologist knows your upbringing, past experience, mental ability, and a few other things they can pretty much predict every move you will make..

I'm sorry.........****wipes tears**** but that is simply so fucking absurd I cannot believe anyone would write it



This stuff makes message boards worthwhile.

 

[Barb]

why? do you really think humans are that complex and imaginative that they can't be put into a few different categories and broken down from there? as if someone needs to be in every situation they counsel in.

Yes, I do think humans are complex and imaginative, and for the situations I listed, hands on experience does lend more credence to the advice offered.

unless you are psychotic or are on drugs/alcohol at the time of an event, if a psychologist knows your upbringing, past experience, mental ability, and a few other things they can pretty much predict every move you will make.

I can't find the link at the moment, but have emailed the friend who showed me it, and a scientist was able to build a finite state machine that mapped basically the exact behavior of children he observed at a daycare for only a short time.

Blu. that is the creepiest thing I've heard today. Truly.

 

[Samson]

did I say doing it overnight? I said noticing the disorder, which means noticing a pattern of behavior which goes over long periods of time and won't change no matter how much a kid is spanked and punished.

No, but you seem to berate parents for using the only remedies they know on behaviours that are fairly common. This isn't irresponsible parenting. Only if a parent is realatively well educated, will they eventually say to themself, "wow, this is really weird, not a 'phase.' Perhaps I should visit a cite online, or a library, or the counselor at school, to admit that I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, and to discuss intelligent alternatives."

Of course, on your planet, I'm certain this happens all the time.

again, parent education would fix most of this. and if the parent truly loved their kid then they would put away pride and talk to a counselor to get their kid(s) help.

You know, I think you've chanted "Parent Education" long enough to actually believe it, and it does happen: RARELY.

You probably should go back to whatever planet you're from if you expect this to happen more frequently.

 

[blu]

You realise that 30% of Americans drop out of highschool.....and many the ones that do cannot find Canada on a Globe.....

Good luck teaching them how to distinguish SID's, or OCD, or ADD or any other mental disorder from a 14 year olds normal behaviour.

in a perfect world those people wouldn't be allowed to have kids

Kinda harsh there, don't you think?
I realize harsh is your thing, a purist and all...but give it some thought. By that reasoning, back in the days of agrarian societies, the peasantry as it were, perfectly loving if imperfectly educated people would not be ALLOWED to have children? How would you accomplish this? Forced sterilization, forced abortion?

I am a full believer in personal responsibility based eugenics. people who can't be responsible for themselves should not be allowed to bring other people into the world or if they do bring children into the world they should be immediately put up for adoption to responsible people.

we can't deal with uneducated bums bringing six or eight kids into the world while responsible people bring in 1 or 2. eventually society is going to collapse if we don't fix it.

 

[blu]

unless you are psychotic or are on drugs/alcohol at the time of an event, if a psychologist knows your upbringing, past experience, mental ability, and a few other things they can pretty much predict every move you will make..

I'm sorry.........****wipes tears**** but that is simply so fucking absurd I cannot believe anyone would write it



This stuff makes message boards worthwhile.

you can wipe tears if you want or until my friend sends me the paper I mentioned you can read the leaked FBI documents on how they profile people and how they are able to predict the exact race, gender, age range, life role, and income class of people who commit crimes solely based on their actions.

 

[blu]

Yes, I do think humans are complex and imaginative, and for the situations I listed, hands on experience does lend more credence to the advice offered.

unless you are psychotic or are on drugs/alcohol at the time of an event, if a psychologist knows your upbringing, past experience, mental ability, and a few other things they can pretty much predict every move you will make.

I can't find the link at the moment, but have emailed the friend who showed me it, and a scientist was able to build a finite state machine that mapped basically the exact behavior of children he observed at a daycare for only a short time.

Blu. that is the creepiest thing I've heard today. Truly.

well then you will enjoy the paper!

 

[lizzie]

Discipline formerly central to raising and educating children has all but been replaced by diagnosis and often chemical treatment of 'ailments' invented by new-age shrinks. Its endemic in public education. Its at least epidemic in the rearing of kids born in the late 80s and beyond.

OCD, ADD, ADHD, ODD... BS

Even our accommodation of other more physiologically substantive learning disabilities coddles the afflicted youth rather than tapping into the human mind's capacity to adapt to our society and the obligations of adult life.

Have we forgotten why we bother to raise kids? I argue that some have been misguided as to how.

As a child (and probably still today), I suspect I had at least a moderate level of ADD, but back then, there was no diagnostic testing, and it was managed by parents who taught self-control via disclipine. I used to really resent it, but in my mid-life years, I realized it's probably the primary reason I didn't self-destruct. My Mom was like a mama-cat, and she didn't miss a thing. My siblings and I were taught to behave and be respectful, not just to elders, but to our peers as well. It was an unwritten rule that we would bend to principles of higher human qualities, and not act like our urges dictated. Since I am biased by my own upbringing, I tend to agree with your observations, and think that much of what we see in the various childhood psychological and learning problems is really a lack of constructive and instructive modeling and discipline by parents, becaue frankly, they don't have the time and energy with all the time spent working just to pay the bills. There is no easy answer, and only time will tell us what the long-term results will be.
Good thread.

 

[Samson]

unless you are psychotic or are on drugs/alcohol at the time of an event, if a psychologist knows your upbringing, past experience, mental ability, and a few other things they can pretty much predict every move you will make..

I'm sorry.........****wipes tears**** but that is simply so fucking absurd I cannot believe anyone would write it



This stuff makes message boards worthwhile.

you can wipe tears if you want or until my friend sends me the paper I mentioned you can read the leaked FBI documents on how they profile people and how they are able to predict the exact race, gender, age range, life role, and income class of people who commit crimes solely based on their actions.

I'm certain that the FBI profiles people, and can make reasonable guesses about them, but given the context of the discussion about kids who may, or may not have a psychological disorder, your remaks are simply ridiculous.

 

[Samson]

we can't deal with uneducated bums bringing six or eight kids into the world while responsible people bring in 1 or 2. eventually society is going to collapse if we don't fix it.

I wonder how we've made it for the past 10,000 years?

 

[Barb]

in a perfect world those people wouldn't be allowed to have kids

Kinda harsh there, don't you think?
I realize harsh is your thing, a purist and all...but give it some thought. By that reasoning, back in the days of agrarian societies, the peasantry as it were, perfectly loving if imperfectly educated people would not be ALLOWED to have children? How would you accomplish this? Forced sterilization, forced abortion?

I am a full believer in personal responsibility based eugenics. people who can't be responsible for themselves should not be allowed to bring other people into the world or if they do bring children into the world they should be immediately put up for adoption to responsible people.

we can't deal with uneducated bums bringing six or eight kids into the world while responsible people bring in 1 or 2. eventually society is going to collapse if we don't fix it.

Jesus H. Christ on a pop-sickle stick. That is some draconian shit you're advocating. There are uneducated and perfectly responsible parents, highly educated irresponsible assholes, and every variation in between. Every variation on the spectrum bring children into the world, and there is no way to tell until part way into the process who will turn out to be the more beneficial parent.

I'm all for population control, and believe that having fewer children improves the chances for the children in any family...fewer people equals more resources for all and all. But, and it is a HUGE but, it is a matter of access to information, and truly informed choices made available to every woman that makes that choice possible.

And Blu, it must be a CHOICE, or it is tyranny.

 

[blu]

I'm sorry.........****wipes tears**** but that is simply so fucking absurd I cannot believe anyone would write it



This stuff makes message boards worthwhile.

you can wipe tears if you want or until my friend sends me the paper I mentioned you can read the leaked FBI documents on how they profile people and how they are able to predict the exact race, gender, age range, life role, and income class of people who commit crimes solely based on their actions.

I'm certain that the FBI profiles people, and can make reasonable guesses about them, but given the context of the discussion about kids who may, or may not have a psychological disorder, your remaks are simply ridiculous.

think what you want, but in 50 years at the longest by age 4 or 5 a kids future choices, life styles, etc will be completely determined automatically by software and some mouse clicks. all that will be needed is normal monitoring by parents, day care, school, etc to put in the variables per kid

obviously if the kid goes heavy on drugs or if they have some overly traumatic experience the initial information will be wrong, but all that will have to be done is to change the variables to fit the traumatic experience

 

[Samson]

they don't have the time and energy with all the time spent working just to pay the bills.

True...ASSUMING that we were all on blu's planet, we'd still need to find the time and energy and resources to commit to his Utopia of Parenting.

 

[Barb]

we can't deal with uneducated bums bringing six or eight kids into the world while responsible people bring in 1 or 2. eventually society is going to collapse if we don't fix it.

I wonder how we've made it for the past 10,000 years?

Honestly, we are multiplying at an unsustainable rate. I disagree with Blu's conclusions as to method and fault, but slowing it down a bit through saner and more humanitarian means wouldn't hurt a bit.

 

[blu]

we can't deal with uneducated bums bringing six or eight kids into the world while responsible people bring in 1 or 2. eventually society is going to collapse if we don't fix it.

I wonder how we've made it for the past 10,000 years?

show me societies throughout history that supported parents with 6+ kids who couldn't do it for themselves.

show me welfare societies like we have now instead of where governments forced giving the kids away to responsible people as they used to.

to say that the welfare state america has built has been around for 10k years is completely off.

 

[Samson]

you can wipe tears if you want or until my friend sends me the paper I mentioned you can read the leaked FBI documents on how they profile people and how they are able to predict the exact race, gender, age range, life role, and income class of people who commit crimes solely based on their actions.

I'm certain that the FBI profiles people, and can make reasonable guesses about them, but given the context of the discussion about kids who may, or may not have a psychological disorder, your remaks are simply ridiculous.

think what you want, but in 50 years at the longest by age 4 or 5 a kids future choices, life styles, etc will be completely determined automatically by software and some mouse clicks. all that will be needed is normal monitoring by parents, day care, school, etc to put in the variables per kid

obviously if the kid goes heavy on drugs or if they have some overly traumatic experience the initial information will be wrong, but all that will have to be done is to change the variables to fit the traumatic experience

You might make a nice Science Fiction writer.

 

[Samson]

we can't deal with uneducated bums bringing six or eight kids into the world while responsible people bring in 1 or 2. eventually society is going to collapse if we don't fix it.

I wonder how we've made it for the past 10,000 years?

Honestly, we are multiplying at an unsustainable rate. I disagree with Blu's conclusions as to method and fault, but slowing it down a bit through saner and more humanitarian means wouldn't hurt a bit.

I wasn't addressing the rate of population growth.

I was adressing the fact that human society hasn't collapsed for the past 10,000 years despite the parenting techinques of "uneducated bums."

 

[Foxfyre]

Putting a label on kids seems to be a non-productive way of dealing with the problem for the adults. Drop the language which characterizes a child as learning diabled, and teach parents, teachers (who may be parents too, don't forget) and kids that everyone has a unique and different learning style.
The problems with our education system, IMO, is we want to teach all kids the same way. Some thrive, some get by and some rebel.
We all learn different ways. For example, putting together a BBQ with my then 13 yo son; I opened the box and took out the written directions, sat down to read. He began to put it together by picking up the pieces and testing how they fit together. As we worked he would go to the pieces in each step while I read, and he would have them together almost before I finished reading and processing the step.

Giving kids medicine has the potential of making the child believe there is something wrong with them. Rather then using the traditional drugs, some of which are very much more powerful than amphetamine, try a caffine 'vitamin' with their breakfast, so suggests a psychologist friend of mine.

The caffeine treatment is so often effective, and is so seldom taught. So very often, all that is necessary to calm the ADD kid who is out of control is to sit him and her down with a cup of hot or iced coffee complete with cream and sugar and have a bit of conversation. You can see their eyes return to normal, see them relax, see them become able to focus. And the more they develop control without the drugs, the more control and focus they achieve and need the caffeine less and less often after awhile.

I am quite sure I would have been diagnosed as an ADD kid if there was such a thing when I was in school. I couldn't sit still, often couldn't focus on a single task, etc., spent days in detention after school for doodling and drawing pictures during the teacher's lectures--it calmed me so I could listen and retain better but they didn't buy that But after seeing kids drugged and drugged and drugged these days, I am so grateful that kids weren't drugged when I was in school.

There isn't any money in caffeine of course, so its unlikely the medical profession will be trying less drastic treatment for ADD kids.

I sound jaded don't I. I suppose I am a bit when it comes to some applications of modern medicine.

 

[Barb]

you can wipe tears if you want or until my friend sends me the paper I mentioned you can read the leaked FBI documents on how they profile people and how they are able to predict the exact race, gender, age range, life role, and income class of people who commit crimes solely based on their actions.

I'm certain that the FBI profiles people, and can make reasonable guesses about them, but given the context of the discussion about kids who may, or may not have a psychological disorder, your remaks are simply ridiculous.

think what you want, but in 50 years at the longest by age 4 or 5 a kids future choices, life styles, etc will be completely determined automatically by software and some mouse clicks. all that will be needed is normal monitoring by parents, day care, school, etc to put in the variables per kid

obviously if the kid goes heavy on drugs or if they have some overly traumatic experience the initial information will be wrong, but all that will have to be done is to change the variables to fit the traumatic experience

I think you have a dearth of knowledge about the whimsy of life. Whimsy, the curves life throws and the many, varied, and unpredictable reactions to those curve balls would crash your computer. If not, we should all take the nearest and highest bridge, because life just got too predictable to fully LIVE. I would rather die than live in such a world, or rather rage against such a machine until it was forced to terminate my "program."

You're program might work as a computer model, but practically applied, it simply sucks.

 

[blu]

Jesus H. Christ on a pop-sickle stick. That is some draconian shit you're advocating. There are uneducated and perfectly responsible parents, highly educated irresponsible assholes, and every variation in between. .

okay? and as I said it should be personal responsibility based, and as i have said in past threads on this, fully uneducated people are simply not able to raise kids properly. third world countries are a great example of this. all it does is create generations of the same people with no societal advancements.

I also never said that all well off people are automatically good parents and its based on the responsibility level of the parent and their interest in acting as parents

 

[Barb]

I wonder how we've made it for the past 10,000 years?

Honestly, we are multiplying at an unsustainable rate. I disagree with Blu's conclusions as to method and fault, but slowing it down a bit through saner and more humanitarian means wouldn't hurt a bit.

I wasn't addressing the rate of population growth.

I was adressing the fact that human society hasn't collapsed for the past 10,000 years despite the parenting techinques of "uneducated bums."

In that case, I agree with you completely.