PsychoMalarkey

[Barb]

My sister fought with her kids' school for years against putting them on drugs. She demanded and got IEP sessions and had the boys properly evaluated. They are drug-free and currently in accelerated/gifted classes. Her 10 year old is a MENSA candidate.

Imagine what the current system would have done with Einstein.

Good point. I didn't let the schools drug my son into submission either. Gave him a cup of coffee every morning and he was good to go.
That too is a drug, but milder than the crap they're pushing.

 

[blu]

Medication didn't affect my placement or treatment in schools or my IQ scores. It simply improves focus.

taking ritalin got me 3 more points on my ACT test. ripped through the reading sections.... I also used to use in high school when teachers would assign hundreds of pages a night to read.

People in my high school would buy Adderall from each other right before taking the SATs.

yea ritalin kids made a lot of money right before exam week. I was lucky though, my cousin got put on the pill form and only took a couple before they switched her to some liquid form. I took the bottle she had leftover and it last for the rest of high school

 

[Samson]

I think there should be a middle ground and as with most things the extremists on both sides have taken over.

for example, the "conservatives" who don't believe in science and any diagnosis of problems, think they can "beat & bible" anything out of kids. they knock up some slut who drinks during the pregnancy and then when a kid is born with FAS and has no real ability to decipher right and wrong, they beat the kid until he runs away and ends up in jail anyway instead of getting him "vodoo counseling" thats tailored to the exact disorder.

you then have the assholes on the left (and big pharma companies) who think because a kid screams for stuff they should be given drugs instead of being disciplined.

neither extreme helps.

heh...."vodoo counseling"

I'm not sure that the counseling "profession" hasn't deserved this lable, but I am sure that there is little to no chance anyone will receive counseling "tailored to the exact disorder."

By "conservatives" who don't believe in science and any diagnosis of problems, think they can "beat & bible" anything out of kids, I think you're describing the average parent's initial reaction to mental disorder. They are simply repeating behaviour that their own parents modeled for them, and which often is very effective....on normal people.

By "assholes on the left" I'm not sure who you mean. "Big Pharma," simply responds to demand (and to a limited degree, feeds the fire), but their products are still subject to FDA approval and acceptance by the psychiatric community. It seems unlikely there is some Evul Conspiracy Theory.

 

[Samson]

Note: antagon has no children.

So...you're thoughts on this are purely academic as well.

People can have academic thoughts, ya know.

 

[Barb]

Note: antagon has no children.

So...you're thoughts on this are purely academic as well.

People can have academic thoughts, ya know.

Of course they can. It was a snotty comment on my part.
Still, its hard to seriously consider comments on child rearing from someone who hasn't tried it in all its gory glory.

 

[Samson]

My sister fought with her kids' school for years against putting them on drugs. She demanded and got IEP sessions and had the boys properly evaluated. They are drug-free and currently in accelerated/gifted classes. Her 10 year old is a MENSA candidate.

Imagine what the current system would have done with Einstein.

Good point. I didn't let the schools drug my son into submission either. Gave him a cup of coffee every morning and he was good to go.
That too is a drug, but milder than the crap they're pushing.

Schools drug your kids?

I doubt it: They may recommend that a psychiatrist (the only MD that should be perscribing behaviour altering drugs) evaluate a child, and this takes quite a long time. It wouldn't be something a school system would be set up to do.

 

[blu]

By "conservatives" who don't believe in science and any diagnosis of problems, think they can "beat & bible" anything out of kids, I think you're describing the average parent's initial reaction to mental disorder. They are simply repeating behaviour that their own parents modeled for them, and which often is very effective....on normal people.

right and thats the cycle that needs to be broken. they are fucking up their kids for life when a few years of counseling can fix most disorders. but as long as parents think that counselors are bullshit and that the "parent knows best" you will continue to raise fucked up kids when in actuality its the parents who should have never been allowed to raise kids in the first place.

By "assholes on the left" I'm not sure who you mean. "Big Pharma," simply responds to demand (and to a limited degree, feeds the fire), but their products are still subject to FDA approval and acceptance by the psychiatric community. It seems unlikely there is some Evul Conspiracy Theory.

the people on the left & pharma are the ones who push drugs to fix any problem instead of dealing with the kid. for instance, during college i went to a counselor for anxiety and the first day he tried to offer me some meds and I told him that if he offered me meds again I would never come and I would do my best to destroy his reputation around the area. once he realized I was serious he started to do actual work and a few months later everything was fine. If I would have went with the drugs route, I would have had to be on them for life most likely and nothing of my thought process and ways of dealing with things would have changed.

 

[Samson]

So...you're thoughts on this are purely academic as well.

People can have academic thoughts, ya know.

Of course they can. It was a snotty comment on my part.
Still, its hard to seriously consider comments on child rearing from someone who hasn't tried it in all its gory glory.

I think its interesting, and highly amusing to see (when I can decipher the poorly expressed thoughts) what the unintiated think.

Also, it reminds me of what my opinion about the subject was at one time: Its somewhat humbling.

 

[blu]

So...you're thoughts on this are purely academic as well.

People can have academic thoughts, ya know.

Of course they can. It was a snotty comment on my part.
Still, its hard to seriously consider comments on child rearing from someone who hasn't tried it in all its gory glory.

I generally find that people who make comments like this are unfit to be parents in the first place. kids aren't some random species who can't be dealt with.

 

[Barb]

People can have academic thoughts, ya know.

Of course they can. It was a snotty comment on my part.
Still, its hard to seriously consider comments on child rearing from someone who hasn't tried it in all its gory glory.

I think its interesting, and highly amusing to see (when I can decipher the poorly expressed thoughts) what the unintiated think.

Also, it reminds me of what my opinion about the subject was at one time: Its somewhat humbling.

I always thought that if a kid was screaming in the store the parent did something horrible.
Carrying mine out (leaving a full grocery cart behind a couple times) while others stared at me in horror taught me a thing or three too.

 

[Samson]

right and thats the cycle that needs to be broken. they are fucking up their kids for life when a few years of counseling can fix most disorders. but as long as parents think that counselors are bullshit and that the "parent knows best" you will continue to raise fucked up kids when in actuality its the parents who should have never been allowed to raise kids in the first place.

Not sure upon which you base the opinion that "a few years of counseling can fix most disorders." I agree, if you are very lucky. But finding a good counselor, and one that understands your particular kid, and his or her disorder, isn't some casual coincidence that magically happens very often. IMHO, in most cases, counselors, therapists, psychologists, are completely worthless, without first seeing a neuropsychologist whose results are interpreted by a psychiatrist, who will begin some sort of medication, or not.

At any rate, this regime would take Super-Parents. Where the fuck do you think most parents learn to be parents? Is there some Masters in Parenting degree on the planet you're living on?

 

[Barb]

People can have academic thoughts, ya know.

Of course they can. It was a snotty comment on my part.
Still, its hard to seriously consider comments on child rearing from someone who hasn't tried it in all its gory glory.

I generally find that people who make comments like this are unfit to be parents in the first place. kids aren't some random species who can't be dealt with.

Moi?
Really? My kids would disagree, but they know me, and you don't. They were plenty random growing up. FYI, most of the interesting ones are.

 

[Samson]

Of course they can. It was a snotty comment on my part.
Still, its hard to seriously consider comments on child rearing from someone who hasn't tried it in all its gory glory.

I think its interesting, and highly amusing to see (when I can decipher the poorly expressed thoughts) what the unintiated think.

Also, it reminds me of what my opinion about the subject was at one time: Its somewhat humbling.

I always thought that if a kid was screaming in the store the parent did something horrible.
Carrying mine out (leaving a full grocery cart behind a couple times) while others stared at me in horror taught me a thing or three too.

Ain't it great.......

....when it happens to someone else?

 

[blu]

Of course they can. It was a snotty comment on my part.
Still, its hard to seriously consider comments on child rearing from someone who hasn't tried it in all its gory glory.

I generally find that people who make comments like this are unfit to be parents in the first place. kids aren't some random species who can't be dealt with.

Moi?
Really? My kids would disagree, but they know me, and you don't. They were plenty random growing up. FYI, most of the interesting ones are.

well its the first thing that parents bring up when a non-parent makes a comment as if kids are some alien thing that can't be understood by having them in the families or studying science & psychology etc

 

[Barb]

Of course they can. It was a snotty comment on my part.
Still, its hard to seriously consider comments on child rearing from someone who hasn't tried it in all its gory glory.

I generally find that people who make comments like this are unfit to be parents in the first place. kids aren't some random species who can't be dealt with.

Moi?
Really? My kids would disagree, but they know me, and you don't. They were plenty random growing up. FYI, most of the interesting ones are.

Not for nothing, I have the same attitude towards those who conduct marriage counseling while honoring religious vows of celibacy. Been there, done that, got milk? No? I prefer to ask those who have, did, or do.

 

[blu]

right and thats the cycle that needs to be broken. they are fucking up their kids for life when a few years of counseling can fix most disorders. but as long as parents think that counselors are bullshit and that the "parent knows best" you will continue to raise fucked up kids when in actuality its the parents who should have never been allowed to raise kids in the first place.

Not sure upon which you base the opinion that "a few years of counseling can fix most disorders." I agree, if you are very lucky. But finding a good counselor, and one that understands your particular kid, and his or her disorder, isn't some casual coincidence that magically happens very often. IMHO, in most cases, counselors, therapists, psychologists, are completely worthless, without first seeing a neuropsychologist whose results are interpreted by a psychiatrist, who will begin some sort of medication, or not.

At any rate, this regime would take Super-Parents. Where the fuck do you think most parents learn to be parents? Is there some Masters in Parenting degree on the planet you're living on?

phd

but I do think this shows why parenting courses should be required or strongly encouraged for new parents, especially younger ones. if a parent can't even being to deal with a kid who has disorders then I don't see why they should be parents in the first place

 

[Samson]

the people on the left & pharma are the ones who push drugs to fix any problem instead of dealing with the kid. for instance, during college i went to a counselor for anxiety and the first day he tried to offer me some meds and I told him that if he offered me meds again I would never come and I would do my best to destroy his reputation around the area. once he realized I was serious he started to do actual work and a few months later everything was fine. If I would have went with the drugs route, I would have had to be on them for life most likely and nothing of my thought process and ways of dealing with things would have changed.

Actually, you have no idea what may have happened.

At any rate, I don't know if you're assigning "on the left" to any defined group, or simply using it as an anology in describing "the opposite end of the spectrum. In either case, unless you have evidence that this could be a REAL problem, then perhaps you could find some wild-eyed member over in the Conspiracy Theory Forum that will argue the point.

 

[Barb]

I generally find that people who make comments like this are unfit to be parents in the first place. kids aren't some random species who can't be dealt with.

Moi?
Really? My kids would disagree, but they know me, and you don't. They were plenty random growing up. FYI, most of the interesting ones are.

well its the first thing that parents bring up when a non-parent makes a comment as if kids are some alien thing that can't be understood by having them in the families or studying science & psychology etc

Well, its hardly appropriate for you to infer I'm an unfit parent in response. Raising kids is a learning process. If you haven't tried it, you really don't have a whole hell of a lot to tell someone who has, and quite successfully I might add.

 

[blu]

I generally find that people who make comments like this are unfit to be parents in the first place. kids aren't some random species who can't be dealt with.

Moi?
Really? My kids would disagree, but they know me, and you don't. They were plenty random growing up. FYI, most of the interesting ones are.

Not for nothing, I have the same attitude towards those who conduct marriage counseling while honoring religious vows of celibacy. Been there, done that, got milk? No? I prefer to ask those who have, did, or do.

why? do you really think humans are that complex and imaginative that they can't be put into a few different categories and broken down from there? as if someone needs to be in every situation they counsel in.

 

[logical4u]

Good point Mr H. Einstein was dyslexic. In my school, he would have been dumped in a resource room with other drugged up kids,

My biggest beef and greatest challenge is ODD - oppositional defiance disorder. Last year, I had a student who took great pleasure in picking fights with everyone in the classroom. I would send her out and they would send her back. Apparently under special education law a student may not be disciplined for a "manifestation of their disability" So if an ODD kid is defiant, its merely a symptom of their "disease". Utter bullshit.

Oh and I have her again in Sept. Aaaaaag!

Give her a punching bag and wear her ass out! When she starts, give her some gloves and send her to the bag, after a few times a day on that bag, self discipline will be easier.
With horses, you lunge them to get that 'wildness' under control, before you ask them to work. Find a way to 'lunge her'.