PsychoMalarkey

[antagon]

Discipline formerly central to raising and educating children has all but been replaced by diagnosis and often chemical treatment of 'ailments' invented by new-age shrinks. Its endemic in public education. Its at least epidemic in the rearing of kids born in the late 80s and beyond.

OCD, ADD, ADHD, ODD... BS

Even our accommodation of other more physiologically substantive learning disabilities coddles the afflicted youth rather than tapping into the human mind's capacity to adapt to our society and the obligations of adult life.

Have we forgotten why we bother to raise kids? I argue that some have been misguided as to how.




Note: antagon has no children.

 

[Kalam]

You'd probably feel differently if you had one of those disorders. Mine persisted into adulthood and is a pretty significant hindrance unless I stay strung out on these amphetamines they prescribed me.

 

[antagon]

i'm not sure i don't or didn't have any of these deals. i'm pretty sure it was not severe, if that was the case. do you have any insight into what has caused the insurgence of these 'disorders' and can we be certain it isn't just zealous diagnosis?

one thing is certain, that if you were born in the 60s your life would have involved adapting to society without any prescribed drugs.

...maybe non-prescription.

 

[editec]

I believe that we are making a tragic mistake diagnosing some kinds of thinking as a medical condition.

For example, EXCEPT IN THE MOST EGREGIOUS CASES OF A.D.D., we are over diagnosing those people as being abnormal and as handicapped.

I think most people with "mild" ADD are in fact well within the normal state of the bell curve of the human condition.

Those people's way of processing data is not ABNORMAL.

However, it may be less useful in this society than it was in previous societies.

FWIW, anybody who takes amphetimines is going to be able to focus their attention more, and enjoy all the mental focus that comes with taking amphetimines.

So in the sense that you think you must had ADD because amphetimines make you more productive?

That is a mistaken notion of how ones mind is supposed to work.

( *)Now, I can focus my attention on one thing for hours and hours...or even for days and days if I am fascinated by whatever it is I am focusing on.

Maybe I can focus my attention too much.

Do I have ASD (ATTENTION SURPLUS DISORDER?)

From a purely darwinian perspective, that way of focusing attention might not be as healthy or as normal as we think it is.

After all, because of this condition I tend to ignore things I OUGHT to be paying attention to.

But since our society needs people with ASD style of thinking, we usually don't think of that as being a problem.

I have had to teach kids who REALLY had ADD. Believe me that is a crippling disorder.

But most people NOW, who tell me they have that problem?

I don't really think they do.

I think they are taking amphetimines, and those makes them more productive (just as they do everybody) but they don't really need them, nor should they be taking those drugs.

In the long run those drugs kill you early.

Don't TRUST modern medicine.

It's wrong so often.




*(this is another reason I find smoking dope to be a good thing for me...it helps me NOT to focus so damned much)

 

[Mr. H.]

My sister fought with her kids' school for years against putting them on drugs. She demanded and got IEP sessions and had the boys properly evaluated. They are drug-free and currently in accelerated/gifted classes. Her 10 year old is a MENSA candidate.

Imagine what the current system would have done with Einstein.

 

[chanel]

Good point Mr H. Einstein was dyslexic. In my school, he would have been dumped in a resource room with other drugged up kids,

My biggest beef and greatest challenge is ODD - oppositional defiance disorder. Last year, I had a student who took great pleasure in picking fights with everyone in the classroom. I would send her out and they would send her back. Apparently under special education law a student may not be disciplined for a "manifestation of their disability" So if an ODD kid is defiant, its merely a symptom of their "disease". Utter bullshit.

Oh and I have her again in Sept. Aaaaaag!

 

[Wry Catcher]

Putting a label on kids seems to be a non-productive way of dealing with the problem for the adults. Drop the language which characterizes a child as learning diabled, and teach parents, teachers (who may be parents too, don't forget) and kids that everyone has a unique and different learning style.
The problems with our education system, IMO, is we want to teach all kids the same way. Some thrive, some get by and some rebel.
We all learn different ways. For example, putting together a BBQ with my then 13 yo son; I opened the box and took out the written directions, sat down to read. He began to put it together by picking up the pieces and testing how they fit together. As we worked he would go to the pieces in each step while I read, and he would have them together almost before I finished reading and processing the step.

Giving kids medicine has the potential of making the child believe there is something wrong with them. Rather then using the traditional drugs, some of which are very much more powerful than amphetamine, try a caffine 'vitamin' with their breakfast, so suggests a psychologist friend of mine.

 

[Samson]

Discipline formerly central to raising and educating children has all but been replaced by diagnosis and often chemical treatment of 'ailments' invented by new-age shrinks. Its endemic in public education. Its at least epidemic in the rearing of kids born in the late 80s and beyond.

OCD, ADD, ADHD, ODD... BS

Even our accommodation of other more physiologically substantive learning disabilities coddles the afflicted youth rather than tapping into the human mind's capacity to adapt to our society and the obligations of adult life.

Have we forgotten why we bother to raise kids? I argue that some have been misguided as to how.




Note: antagon has no children.

While I agree with your points, I fail to see the harm: What evidence is there that society would be better off would we be without "diagnosis and often chemical treatment of 'ailments' invented by new-age shrinks."

 

[Wry Catcher]

Good point Mr H. Einstein was dyslexic. In my school, he would have been dumped in a resource room with other drugged up kids,

My biggest beef and greatest challenge is ODD - oppositional defiance disorder. Last year, I had a student who took great pleasure in picking fights with everyone in the classroom. I would send her out and they would send her back. Apparently under special education law a student may not be disciplined for a "manifestation of their disability" So if an ODD kid is defiant, its merely a symptom of their "disease". Utter bullshit.

Oh and I have her again in Sept. Aaaaaag!

What grade level do you teach? I'm curious, are the ODD kid's parents at all involved? Does she have a social worker or probation officer? Is she in counseling? Does she connect with any peers?

 

[psikeyhackr]

I am inclined to wonder to what extent television and later video games were involved in creating some of these problems.

I grew up watching black and white television. Just watching there is the constant reminder by the lack of color that THIS AIN'T REAL. But did color television help reduce that awareness of unreality.

I got addicted to DOOM for about 8 months back in the 90s. A friend of mine melted his Quake CD over the stove to stop playing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_(video_game)

So what has all of this electronic stimulation done to kid's nervous systems? But then they are expected to sit still and listen to boring teachers hour after hour. Most of my grade school teachers were boring in the 60s. I don't know how I would have gotten through grade school without science fiction books. LOL I could sit quietly and think about that and give the teacher about 25% of my attention and still get A's and B's.

psik

 

[chanel]

There is some research on that. I've discovered that changing up activities every 10-15 mins or so keeps the kids engaged.

A study published in the April 2004 issue of Pediatrics concluded that exposure to television in children aged 1- to 3-years-old increased the risk of developing attention-related problems at age 7. In follow-up studies, the researchers found that early TV viewing was also associated with cognitive trouble and problems in school as children aged.

Television and ADHD - MSN Health & Fitness - ADHD/ADD

Wry - I teach 12th grade. The girl is one of four being raised by mom. No dad in house. She has "friends" but they are mostly cousins. No counseling; no probation and as far as I know; no medicine.
She didn't graduate last year and will be back for a fifth year at 19 years old. She was put in an alternative program but "didn't get along with the kids there" so she came back to regular school. Not uncommon these days. She's involved in her church. Maybe they can help her. I tried everything. Her mom is polite; but also an excuse maker. They ended up moving her out of my class mid-way and put her with a teacher who doesn't assign homework and lets them cut class. Not uncommon either. Errr! She still ended up failing.

 

[Mr. H.]

After my divorce, the ex put our 5 year old on Ritilan. I never gave it to him during visitations, I just ate the things. Or ground 'em up and snorted it.

I rather enjoyed seeing him energetic and full of life and not like a little zombie.
I was energetic too.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There is some research on that. I've discovered that changing up activities every 10-15 mins or so keeps the kids engaged.

A study published in the April 2004 issue of Pediatrics concluded that exposure to television in children aged 1- to 3-years-old increased the risk of developing attention-related problems at age 7. In follow-up studies, the researchers found that early TV viewing was also associated with cognitive trouble and problems in school as children aged.

Television and ADHD - MSN Health & Fitness - ADHD/ADD

Wry - I teach 12th grade. The girl is one of four being raised by mom. No dad in house. She has "friends" but they are mostly cousins. No counseling; no probation and as far as I know; no medicine.
She didn't graduate last year and will be back for a fifth year at 19 years old. She was put in an alternative program but "didn't get along with the kids there" so she came back to regular school. Not uncommon these days. She's involved in her church. Maybe they can help her. I tried everything. Her mom is polite; but also an excuse maker. They ended up moving her out of my class mid-way and put her with a teacher who doesn't assign homework and lets them cut class. Not uncommon either. Errr! She still ended up failing.

Thinking out of the box I wonder how she might respond to a bit of responsibility. What if you ask her to be your TA? This may strike you as absurd - and it may very well be absurd - but by giving her some status, some extra credit, and a bit of one on one attention she may become a real aide.

 

[Samson]

I am inclined to wonder to what extent television and later video games were involved in creating some of these problems.

The root of all EVUL

 

[syrenn]

I am tired of all of this shit. Getting a label for you badly behaved child is the easy way out. You don't have to deal with your brat child. You don't have to make them behave or adapt.

 

[Samson]

I am tired of all of this shit. Getting a label for you badly behaved child is the easy way out. You don't have to deal with your brat child. You don't have to make them behave or adapt.

Oh yeah, its a real picnic living with these "badly behaved" children!!!!

 

[Wry Catcher]

I am tired of all of this shit. Getting a label for you badly behaved child is the easy way out. You don't have to deal with your brat child. You don't have to make them behave or adapt.

This is only a guess, but I suspect you're not a parent, more likely a brat.

 

[syrenn]

I am tired of all of this shit. Getting a label for you badly behaved child is the easy way out. You don't have to deal with your brat child. You don't have to make them behave or adapt.

This is only a guess, but I suspect you're not a parent, more likely a brat.

And i bet you loved having an itsit while watching Laughing Sal.

 

[antagon]

Good point Mr H. Einstein was dyslexic. In my school, he would have been dumped in a resource room with other drugged up kids,

My biggest beef and greatest challenge is ODD - oppositional defiance disorder. Last year, I had a student who took great pleasure in picking fights with everyone in the classroom. I would send her out and they would send her back. Apparently under special education law a student may not be disciplined for a "manifestation of their disability" So if an ODD kid is defiant, its merely a symptom of their "disease". Utter bullshit.

Oh and I have her again in Sept. Aaaaaag!

i'm glad that you've seen this topic; you always bring the educator's perspective to threads. what you've said is worse than i thought.

i think it's one of the side-effects of the seventies and the civil rights era that our society has gone from being defiant about our natural circumstances to seeking out our natural impediments in order to barter them for government or social accommodation. i dont regret the enlightenment of this time, but the 'i was born this way' archetype should be ringfenced in a way. i hate the nature argument in nature v nurture. i find it to be fundamentally nazi, even if you put this tree-hugging 'manifestation of their disability' angle on it.

humanity is not great because we are born well adapted to the world. that would be the cockroach. our greatness comes from our ability to adapt as individuals to a society which in turn adapts to our circumstances. this is a the philosophical excess i take things to, but ultimately, 'it weakens humanity' is what i'm saying. it weakens humans and the societies we build.

 

[chanel]

Well said antagon. And while we all try to stay away from labels, unfortunately for many parents the label in and of itself is comforting. "Why is my child failing?" It's because he has ADHD; not because he's dumb. It sounds "medical" like saying "my child has an allergy or diabetes or needs glasses..." No shame in that. The self esteem movement in schools has done more harm than good in my opinion. No one has to say to the student "work harder"; they say to the teachers "modify the assignment" Code word - dumb it down. Children are not taught to adapt; adults will adapt for them. And if that doesn't work - try a pill.