PsychoMalarkey

[Samson]

For Christssakes.

Ok, now that you're on the right page, what is the "Natural Solution" after punishment doesn't work?

Is it that you don't know the answer, or just don't want to admit what the answer is?

Try to explain without your customary 250 words of evasive bullshit.

punishment isn't the only component of discipline. you are the one who decided to simplify my statement to the mere role of punishment. have another read, and once you are convinced that all of that isn't transferrable to anyone but myself, i'll educate you with more ways you can elicit success from humans without drugs.

i wonder if your insistence on defending ineffective public school methodology is what's shared by the administrators and policy makers who have put on this debacle in the first place.

Okay, what about re-direction, or better yet, teaching methods geared towards specific learning styles?
There are (I think) four, maybe five.
Instead of labeling everyone who does not conform to the ONE currently taught as "disabled," maybe K-12 could ENABLE their educators with the same tools college students are given in general education studies. Can't hurt, could help...who knows?

You're correct, but this is the current practice: You are mistaken if you believe, even in one classroom, the teacher only teaches ONE way to One specific learning style.

Of course, obviously, all teachers are not teaching to each student's learning style.

If we want to pay for teacher to student ratios of 1:1,......that's another thread.

 

[Barb]

punishment isn't the only component of discipline. you are the one who decided to simplify my statement to the mere role of punishment. have another read, and once you are convinced that all of that isn't transferrable to anyone but myself, i'll educate you with more ways you can elicit success from humans without drugs.

i wonder if your insistence on defending ineffective public school methodology is what's shared by the administrators and policy makers who have put on this debacle in the first place.

Okay, what about re-direction, or better yet, teaching methods geared towards specific learning styles?
There are (I think) four, maybe five.
Instead of labeling everyone who does not conform to the ONE currently taught as "disabled," maybe K-12 could ENABLE their educators with the same tools college students are given in general education studies. Can't hurt, could help...who knows?

You're correct, but this is the current practice: You are mistaken if you believe, even in one classroom, the teacher only teaches ONE way to One specific learning style.

Of course, obviously, all teachers are not teaching to each student's learning style.

If we want to pay for teacher to student ratios of 1:1,......that's another thread.

Honestly, I haven't studied teaching, but I do have some experience with "special" education. My youngest is smart as hell. He was diagnosed learning disabled. The kid had a grasp of concepts and use of sarcasm and irony before he could TALK. Diagrams he could read better than most. English not so much, and he was speech delayed. His classes bored him to disinterest. He's come a long way in spite of this, but in all honesty I think blinkered and restricted teaching methods hold a lot of gifted if otherwise abled students back instead of developing their talents and gifts.

 

[lizzie]

I wonder how we've made it for the past 10,000 years?

We didn't have anywhere near our current levels of medical technology, mass food production, or social welfare programs. Another one of those double-edged swords I'm so fond of.

I'm confident Mother Nature will even the score.

She can be a real bitch.

My point was really that we are trying dilligently to defy Nature. There's nothing inherrently wrong with that, but it just costs us a ton of money and puts off the inevitable. As humans, we can manipulate to our hearts' content, but we are just deluding ourselves and causing alot of damage in the meantime.

So yeah, Mother Nature's a real bitch, but she is much wiser than most of her offspring.

 

[antagon]

For Christssakes.

Ok, now that you're on the right page, what is the "Natural Solution" after punishment doesn't work?

Is it that you don't know the answer, or just don't want to admit what the answer is?

Try to explain without your customary 250 words of evasive bullshit.

punishment isn't the only component of discipline. you are the one who decided to simplify my statement to the mere role of punishment. have another read, and once you are convinced that all of that isn't transferrable to anyone but myself, i'll educate you with more ways you can elicit success from humans without drugs.

i wonder if your insistence on defending ineffective public school methodology is what's shared by the administrators and policy makers who have put on this debacle in the first place.

Was I defending public school methodology? Where? If anything, I've consistantly stated that public schools have nothing to do with perscribing behaviour modifying drugs. Nor have I even implied that drugs should be the choice of first resort, but rather the last.

then we have another point of disagreement. i see amateur psychoanalysis as being a pervasive practice in public schools, and feel that private schools are considerably more resistant to this approach, if i dare speak from personal experience again. medication is not the only recourse to a diagnosis of this kind, but it is a frequent choice for its convenience.

To assume modern medicine is NEVER the appropriate choice, and that punishment (the only alternative you've mentioned:

"i'll elaborate from my personal experience. in my upbringing, i was told right from wrong and punished for the latter."

you're slow in the brain, samson. here i stated pretty clearly that what i propose is sensible should be applied before some of these diagnoses are made and treatments are considered or developed at all. i think you read the first line or two and said blah blah blah about the rest.

in the earlier link, my personal experience included more than just punishment:

"my hyperactivity was channeled into sports from very young. discipline from that sphere of my life and related to my parent's standards of academic achievement taught me when to apply my capacity for focusing and when to be active."

i think you just cut that part out of your argumentation, too.

like i said, beyond this paragraph in which i've attempted to summarize my entire upbringing, there are a number of ways to elicit success from humans, and they don't entail in-depth psychoanalysis at all. instead of exploring these options which are fairly consistent in the practices and parenting of successful students, a trend has emerged which liberally labels people with behavioral disorders.

there is a healthy expansion of the diagnoses of these 'ailments', and i think the zeal for diagnosis and an abandonment of discipline and social education is at the heart of the problem, rather than any idea of legitimate disorders emerging to the magnitude measured.

Shit, I wouldn't be surprised if you were taking Blue Mass (33 parts mercury)...

...no...