Physician assisted suicide

[Noomi]

Life is a terminal disease. There is no possibility of recovery. We will all doe.

I don't like the liberal progression of the concept of assisted suicide. The philosophy is wrong. It gets extended. In the Netherlands it's gone from the terminally ill, to the chronically ill, to the disabled who, if they want to live, are considered too mentally ill to make that decision themselves. Then extended to people who aren't ill, but so old that if they got ill, their treatment would be very expensive. Doctors have to make these decisions for them. Family members who don't want a member killed are too emotionally involved, they can't make that decision. It has to be taken from them.

Age 70 seems to be the magic number to murder. After 70, a person is considered worthless and too expensive to be allowed to live.

Dutch Assisted Suicide Policy Should Serve as a Grisly Warning

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Netherlands churches express concern over assisted suicide proposal

I plan to retire in the Netherlands one day. I love how liberal they are, and I strongly agree with their euthanasia laws - although I don't always believe the decision to terminate a life should be taken from the family.

People with disabilities - it costs thousands to raise them and care for them. Do people deserve to be so far in debt they don't have a hope in hell of getting out of it? What else can they do? Who else is willing to spend all that money on someone who is so disabled that they cannot eat, speak walk, talk, or communicate in any way? Putting them in a home is one option - but does a parent want to send their child to a home? Most parents wouldn't.

People probably think that they have no other option than to euthanase their disabled children. What we need is a lot more support from the government - people with disabilities and parents raising a child with a disability need a heck of a lot more assistance. Wheelchairs and other equipment should be free (yes, taxpayer funded) and medication should be heavily discounted so it is more affordable.

That way, parents will be able to raise their children and not worry about the black hole of debt sucking them in.

Assuming your sources are correct, of course - I have heard conflicting reports that say they may be inaccurate.

 

[Noomi]

Just as easy as it is for anyone else.

I think someone with terminal cancer but who still has full mobility would find it easier to swallow pills than a quadraplegic.

What makes you think quadriplegics can't swallow?

What makes you think a quadriplegic can open a pill bottle, shake out some pills, pour themselves a drink, and swallow it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I think someone with terminal cancer but who still has full mobility would find it easier to swallow pills than a quadraplegic.

What makes you think quadriplegics can't swallow?

What makes you think a quadriplegic can open a pill bottle, shake out some pills, pour themselves a drink, and swallow it?

I was asked about swallowing, not opening a pill bottle. You do know that, if someone wants to die, experts considered it impossible to prevent it? In fact, it has actually been demonstrated that a person on suicide watch in a prison hospital can successfully commit suicide despite having no access to drugs, tools, weapons, bedding, or clothing. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that drugs are the only way to die.

 

[Saigon]

QW -

Of course drug are not the only way to die.

However, drug administered by a professional are the only logical, clean, dignified, painless and effective method to end the life of someone who is severely ill and/or handicapped.

Suggesting sick people score drugs, jump off a building or hang themselves fail most of those criteria.

 

[Noomi]

What makes you think quadriplegics can't swallow?

What makes you think a quadriplegic can open a pill bottle, shake out some pills, pour themselves a drink, and swallow it?

I was asked about swallowing, not opening a pill bottle. You do know that, if someone wants to die, experts considered it impossible to prevent it? In fact, it has actually been demonstrated that a person on suicide watch in a prison hospital can successfully commit suicide despite having no access to drugs, tools, weapons, bedding, or clothing. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that drugs are the only way to die.

Can you tell me how a person who does not have the use of their arms or legs, can swallow pills without someone first holding them to their mouth so they can swallow them?

 

[Noomi]

QW -

Of course drug are not the only way to die.

However, drug administered by a professional are the only logical, clean, dignified, painless and effective method to end the life of someone who is severely ill and/or handicapped.

Suggesting sick people score drugs, jump off a building or hang themselves fail most of those criteria.

Not to mention you may not succeed, and such deaths are often grisly and messy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why?

Because this is the Clean Debate Zone.

Crap. Thank you for telling me! Can you please edit your post to remove my comment?

If you hadn't told me, I would have gone off ranting. Thanks for reminding me!

Not a problem, I forget occasionally myself.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I notice I was ignored. Again. Which of you will write the air tight law that prevents physicians from deciding on their own a patient is beyond help and then claiming they ask them to kill them?
.

Because they require the consent of family.

Yup no conflict there.... wait you mean if I let Dad die I get all his money? Yup no problem with family members paying doctors to "assist" the sick to die.

 

[Saigon]

I notice I was ignored. Again. Which of you will write the air tight law that prevents physicians from deciding on their own a patient is beyond help and then claiming they ask them to kill them?
.

Because they require the consent of family.

Yup no conflict there.... wait you mean if I let Dad die I get all his money? Yup no problem with family members paying doctors to "assist" the sick to die.

No, there is no conflict there.

Firstly, doctors aren't paid to do this - it's public healthcare.

Secondly, the Dutch laws require two family members to sign consent with no disenting members, I believe. So if someone protests, the case is looked at again.

Thirdly, two doctors must sign off on every case.

 

[FA_Q2]

I notice I was ignored. Again. Which of you will write the air tight law that prevents physicians from deciding on their own a patient is beyond help and then claiming they ask them to kill them?

Or the Physician that gets a monetary reward for the death of a patient?

You may not believe in the slippery slope but it is real and happens all the time.

You were largely ignored because such a law was already posted. The idea is rather simple, you get more than one doctor to sign off on it, you require legal documents to be signed and notarized and you require a psychiatrist to agree to the assisted suicide.

Unless you are advocating that all those individuals are going to get together and start a conspiracy to commit fraud to end some old and terminally ill patients then your point is moot. Laws already exist that protect both the patents rights and the actions of the doctor.

 

[FA_Q2]

Because they require the consent of family.

Yup no conflict there.... wait you mean if I let Dad die I get all his money? Yup no problem with family members paying doctors to "assist" the sick to die.

No, there is no conflict there.

Firstly, doctors aren't paid to do this - it's public healthcare.

Secondly, the Dutch laws require two family members to sign consent with no disenting members, I believe. So if someone protests, the case is looked at again.

Thirdly, two doctors must sign off on every case.

I would honestly disagree that the family should have any actual influence in the decision outside of how much the patent wants to involve them. I am for a person having the right to end their own life but I fail to see how a family member, no matter who it is, has the right to intervene.

 

[Saigon]

FA-Q2 -

I think the family should be involved. There may be case where a person is suffering from depression and the family feel that the person needs to be treated for that - or just wait 6 months - before making a decision.

Likewise, I think the family are the best guardians against abuse from either one very aggresive family member looking to make financial gain, or against abuse by a careless physician.

It's a checks and balances thing, although sometimes I agree it may cause problems for the patient who wishes to die, but does so against the wishes of family.

 

[Jarlaxle]

What makes you think quadriplegics can't swallow?

What the fuck makes you think a quadriplegic can open a pill bottle, shake out some pills, pour themselves a drink, and swallow it?

I was asked about swallowing, not opening a pill bottle. You do know that, if someone wants to die, experts considered it impossible to prevent it? In fact, it has actually been demonstrated that a person on suicide watch in a prison hospital can successfully commit suicide despite having no access to drugs, tools, weapons, bedding, or clothing. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that drugs are the only way to die.

Please explain, in detail, EXACTLY how a quadriplegic incapable ov movement below the neck can end his own life. Be specific.

While you're at it, please explain, in detail, how someone with advanced ALS can do so. Be specific.

 

[FA_Q2]

FA-Q2 -

I think the family should be involved. There may be case where a person is suffering from depression and the family feel that the person needs to be treated for that - or just wait 6 months - before making a decision.

Likewise, I think the family are the best guardians against abuse from either one very aggresive family member looking to make financial gain, or against abuse by a careless physician.

It's a checks and balances thing, although sometimes I agree it may cause problems for the patient who wishes to die, but does so against the wishes of family.

Hence why I believe that more than one physician should be involved AND a psychiatrist. Those three professional individuals should provide more than enough to determine if this is a case where a physician should be allowed to assist in the patents suicide.

Family members bring a whole other element into play; wild emotions. That does not belong between you and your rights.

 

[xsited1]

Do you feel terminally ill patients should have the right to ask doctors to help them die? Do we as a nation spend too much time trying to keep people alive that we have abandoned the notion of allowing people to have a dignified death?

If physicians are given the choice and enough protections are put in place, I see no reason why a person shouldn't be allowed to take their own life if they are unable to do it themselves.

 

[freedombecki]

Do you feel terminally ill patients should have the right to ask doctors to help them die? Do we as a nation spend too much time trying to keep people alive that we have abandoned the notion of allowing people to have a dignified death?

Is a doctor to be forced to have an undignified life after refusing such a request?

The hubris comes when you make it the law, then another law, then another law, then another.

Suddenly, murder becomes publicly accepted because nobody stood up to first blood, and someone decides the world would be a better place with only 1,000 human beings on the planet. It's all rationed out to people who disagree should be designated as "right to die" quarry and then forcing them into the showers.

Just another open mind, spilling its sickening contents all over on the www with no thought of tomorrow's repercussions.

 

[Katzndogz]

My grandmother watched her brother and sister slip away into Alzheimer's. My great aunt lived for more than 10 years after her mind was completely lost. A better part of those years she spent drugged for her own safety. It was my grandmothers greatest fear, to end up like her siblings.

My grandmother told my wife and me that if she were ever "going crazy" (her words) and was goin g to end up in a "nut house" (again, her words), she wanted one of us to shoot her.

My dearest friend said that too. We were roommates and she wanted me to know that if she ever got to the point where she could no longer take care of herself she wanted a quick end.

Years later she got a brain tumor. All hope was gone. She was unable to stand, sit, eat on her own. While she didn't have a feeding tube she had to be hand fed. She couldn't speak. Her communication was reduced to blinking. One for no, two for yes. Her doctors recommended moving her to a hospice where she would be denied food and water until she died. As the person closest to her and who knew her wishes they asked me. I went to see her. I spoke to her nurse. My friend liked to watch television, butterscotch pudding was her favorite. I asked my friend if she still felt that she wanted to die rather than live like this. She very slowly blinked one time. No matter how bad, life was still precious to her. There was still some enjoyment to be had, a television show and butterscotch pudding. I refused to agree to hospice care. Especially such a cruel, painful and drawn out process as they intended.

My friend died a few days later, peacefully in her sleep. I made the right decision.

 

[Katzndogz]

Do you feel terminally ill patients should have the right to ask doctors to help them die? Do we as a nation spend too much time trying to keep people alive that we have abandoned the notion of allowing people to have a dignified death?

Is a doctor to be forced to have an undignified life after refusing such a request?

The hubris comes when you make it the law, then another law, then another law, then another.

Suddenly, murder becomes publicly accepted because nobody stood up to first blood, and someone decides the world would be a better place with only 1,000 human beings on the planet. It's all rationed out to people who disagree should be designated as "right to die" quarry and then forcing them into the showers.

Just another open mind, spilling its sickening contents all over on the www with no thought of tomorrow's repercussions.

It happens when terminally ill people are judged incompetent to make that decision themselves. Then it is taken out of their hands.

 

[koshergrl]

Lefties embrace murder for a variety of reasons.

This is just another one.

 

[freedombecki]

Why not? I have always found that laws against committing suicide are asinine. If you don’t want to be here, so be it. I have no problem with you finishing yourself off if that is truly what you want. Such a process needs to be well thought out, we don’t want errors in such a situation but you have dominion over your body. Why not dominion in ending it.

A guy gets married and has 6 kids with his wife. When the youngest is ten, the wife gets dirt under her nails cleaning up after all of them.

He decides she is not attractive, but his office assistant, who has immaculate fingernails is hot. He knows he could die for her.

He gets a no-contest divorce from his wife of 20 years to marry his office assistant. Miss No-dirt-under-her-nails is caught by him in bed with his best friend at the wedding reception. He is shocked and commits suicide because he cannot tell what few friends he has left after leaving 7 people of his family out in the cold.

His new wife, who prearranged to have her name written on all his property sues for his estate and wins, no one the wiser of her wedding dalliances.

The 6 children and newly ex-wife cannot afford their mortgaged home and are forced into lives of poverty, while Miss Priss gets lifetime manicures.

I'll take the asinine "it's against the law to commit suicide" law, thank you very much. At least the wife who helped inspire her husband through thin times could keep her house if he broke the law with his less-than-lawful act of self-destruction.