Physician assisted suicide

[Saigon]

Lefties embrace murder for a variety of reasons.

This is just another one.

Since when is ending your own life murder?

 

[Katzndogz]

Lefties embrace murder for a variety of reasons.

This is just another one.

Since when is ending your own life murder?

When it's assisted.

 

[Saigon]

Lefties embrace murder for a variety of reasons.

This is just another one.

Since when is ending your own life murder?

When it's assisted.

Then I suggest you don't opt for it yourself.

It's the same with abortion - if you don't feel it is right for you, then don't consider it as an option.

Unless of course you love big government imposing their will and limiting freedoms.

 

[Katzndogz]

Since when is ending your own life murder?

When it's assisted.

Then I suggest you don't opt for it yourself.

It's the same with abortion - if you don't feel it is right for you, then don't consider it as an option.

Unless of course you love big government imposing their will and limiting freedoms.

I don't care who gets an abortion. I just don't want to pay for it. They can pay for their own, and their own birth control too. The man in prison who wants to commit suicide if he doesn't get a paid sex change operation should be given a gun and locked in a room alone until there's only a body to drag out. That's as valid a reason for suicide as any other.

 

[Saigon]

Katz -

I have no problem with your position on that one - I think it is fair to ask people to pay for contraception and abortion - although they are state funded here, and I think that is fine also.

Sex change operations I think should be user-pays. To me they are like cosmetic surgery in that they are entirely optional, though I suspect some transexuals may not agree with me on that.

Nice to see we agree on something!

 

[AmyNation]

Do you feel terminally ill patients should have the right to ask doctors to help them die? Do we as a nation spend too much time trying to keep people alive that we have abandoned the notion of allowing people to have a dignified death?

If a doctor helps it is rightfully called murder. Or are you going to create the airtight law that prevents an over zealous or other minded Physician from killing someone and claiming they were asked to kill them?

I don't think doctors should be able to just claim the patient asked. However I also don't see a big hurdle in creating a law that has steps a patient can take that will then allow their doctor to help.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What the fuck makes you think a quadriplegic can open a pill bottle, shake out some pills, pour themselves a drink, and swallow it?

I was asked about swallowing, not opening a pill bottle. You do know that, if someone wants to die, experts considered it impossible to prevent it? In fact, it has actually been demonstrated that a person on suicide watch in a prison hospital can successfully commit suicide despite having no access to drugs, tools, weapons, bedding, or clothing. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that drugs are the only way to die.

Please explain, in detail, EXACTLY how a quadriplegic incapable ov movement below the neck can end his own life. Be specific.

While you're at it, please explain, in detail, how someone with advanced ALS can do so. Be specific.

Use your imagination. People kill themselves all the time in circumstances deliberately designed by some very smart people to make suicide impossible.

 

[AmyNation]

i notice i was ignored. Again. Which of you will write the air tight law that prevents physicians from deciding on their own a patient is beyond help and then claiming they ask them to kill them?

Or the physician that gets a monetary reward for the death of a patient?

You may not believe in the slippery slope but it is real and happens all the time.

you were largely ignored because such a law was already posted. The idea is rather simple, you get more than one doctor to sign off on it, you require legal documents to be signed and notarized and you require a psychiatrist to agree to the assisted suicide.

Unless you are advocating that all those individuals are going to get together and start a conspiracy to commit fraud to end some old and terminally ill patients then your point is moot. Laws already exist that protect both the patents rights and the actions of the doctor.

+1

 

[AmyNation]

Why not? I have always found that laws against committing suicide are asinine. If you don’t want to be here, so be it. I have no problem with you finishing yourself off if that is truly what you want. Such a process needs to be well thought out, we don’t want errors in such a situation but you have dominion over your body. Why not dominion in ending it.

A guy gets married and has 6 kids with his wife. When the youngest is ten, the wife gets dirt under her nails cleaning up after all of them.

He decides she is not attractive, but his office assistant, who has immaculate fingernails is hot. He knows he could die for her.

He gets a no-contest divorce from his wife of 20 years to marry his office assistant. Miss No-dirt-under-her-nails is caught by him in bed with his best friend at the wedding reception. He is shocked and commits suicide because he cannot tell what few friends he has left after leaving 7 people of his family out in the cold.

His new wife, who prearranged to have her name written on all his property sues for his estate and wins, no one the wiser of her wedding dalliances.

The 6 children and newly ex-wife cannot afford their mortgaged home and are forced into lives of poverty, while Miss Priss gets lifetime manicures.

I'll take the asinine "it's against the law to commit suicide" law, thank you very much. At least the wife who helped inspire her husband through thin times could keep her house if he broke the law with his less-than-lawful act of self-destruction.

*blink blink*

Wow.

 

[AmyNation]

Lefties embrace murder for a variety of reasons.

This is just another one.

So you feel people who live in constant pain should be forced to suffer instead of being allowed to ask a physican to help them die?

Ok.

 

[Katzndogz]

Lefties embrace murder for a variety of reasons.

This is just another one.

So you feel people who live in constant pain should be forced to suffer instead of being allowed to ask a physican to help them die?

Ok.

I don't think it will stay there. It will be expanded, step by step, bit by bit. The same way abortion started out as killing the fetus before it's born, to while it was being born and now after it's born.

 

[Saigon]

I don't think it will stay there. It will be expanded, step by step, bit by bit. The same way abortion started out as killing the fetus before it's born, to while it was being born and now after it's born.

It realy isn't you know. It's just mythology.

In not one country on this earth can you ask your doctor to top your new born baby. Not a one.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I was asked about swallowing, not opening a pill bottle. You do know that, if someone wants to die, experts considered it impossible to prevent it? In fact, it has actually been demonstrated that a person on suicide watch in a prison hospital can successfully commit suicide despite having no access to drugs, tools, weapons, bedding, or clothing. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that drugs are the only way to die.

Please explain, in detail, EXACTLY how a quadriplegic incapable ov movement below the neck can end his own life. Be specific.

While you're at it, please explain, in detail, how someone with advanced ALS can do so. Be specific.

Use your imagination. People kill themselves all the time in circumstances deliberately designed by some very smart people to make suicide impossible.

Stop tap-dancing.

Please explain, in detail, EXACTLY how a quadriplegic incapable ov movement below the neck can end his own life. Be specific.

While you're at it, please explain, in detail, how someone with advanced ALS can do so. Be specific.

Stop dodging and ANSWER THE QUESTION.

 

[xsited1]

Do you feel terminally ill patients should have the right to ask doctors to help them die? Do we as a nation spend too much time trying to keep people alive that we have abandoned the notion of allowing people to have a dignified death?

Is a doctor to be forced to have an undignified life after refusing such a request?

The hubris comes when you make it the law, then another law, then another law, then another.

Suddenly, murder becomes publicly accepted because nobody stood up to first blood, and someone decides the world would be a better place with only 1,000 human beings on the planet. It's all rationed out to people who disagree should be designated as "right to die" quarry and then forcing them into the showers.

Just another open mind, spilling its sickening contents all over on the www with no thought of tomorrow's repercussions.

You are correct in that it is a very slippery slope.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Please explain, in detail, EXACTLY how a quadriplegic incapable ov movement below the neck can end his own life. Be specific.

While you're at it, please explain, in detail, how someone with advanced ALS can do so. Be specific.

Use your imagination. People kill themselves all the time in circumstances deliberately designed by some very smart people to make suicide impossible.

Stop tap-dancing.

Please explain, in detail, EXACTLY how a quadriplegic incapable ov movement below the neck can end his own life. Be specific.

While you're at it, please explain, in detail, how someone with advanced ALS can do so. Be specific.

Stop dodging and ANSWER THE QUESTION.

I oppose physician assisted suicide because I do not think doctors should do anything other than heal. Until you can explain to me why only doctors are qualified to help people take pills I don't have to explain anything.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Tap-dancing noted. Evasion noted. I accept your concession.

 

[AmyNation]

Lefties embrace murder for a variety of reasons.

This is just another one.

So you feel people who live in constant pain should be forced to suffer instead of being allowed to ask a physican to help them die?

Ok.

I don't think it will stay there. It will be expanded, step by step, bit by bit. The same way abortion started out as killing the fetus before it's born, to while it was being born and now after it's born.

I couldn't disagree more, however I can understand that fear.

 

[geauxtohell]

Do you feel terminally ill patients should have the right to ask doctors to help them die? Do we as a nation spend too much time trying to keep people alive that we have abandoned the notion of allowing people to have a dignified death?

Ever here of the Hippocratic Oath?

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art-if they desire to learn it-without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but to no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfill this path and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely. may the opposite of all this be my lot.

I wouldn't trust anyone who violates an oath to take care of a hangnail, even if it is legal.

So...

Do I have to be into Greek Polytheism too?

Or do we get to pick and choose what we want to follow. Like the bible?

 

[geauxtohell]

I notice I was ignored. Again. Which of you will write the air tight law that prevents physicians from deciding on their own a patient is beyond help and then claiming they ask them to kill them?

Or the Physician that gets a monetary reward for the death of a patient?

You may not believe in the slippery slope but it is real and happens all the time.

You are talking about Euthanasia. That is not the same as assisted suicide.

The crucial tenant of assisted suicide is that the lethal act is still done by the patient's hand.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Do you feel terminally ill patients should have the right to ask doctors to help them die? Do we as a nation spend too much time trying to keep people alive that we have abandoned the notion of allowing people to have a dignified death?

Ever here of the Hippocratic Oath?

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art-if they desire to learn it-without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but to no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfill this path and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely. may the opposite of all this be my lot.

I wouldn't trust anyone who violates an oath to take care of a hangnail, even if it is legal.

So...

Do I have to be into Greek Polytheism too?

Or do we get to pick and choose what we want to follow. Like the bible?

The health and life of my patient will be my first consideration.

Explain how killing people fits into that, and then explain why I should trust a person that swears an oath and then decides that it doesn't apply because he got bitter.