Our Flag: Shrouded

[FA_Q2]

PC's cents (I have trouble using "sense" in that context) of liberty unbounded maybe ideologically sound for the extreme but for most of us it borders on absurdity. Only an idiot or an extremist would allow a situation to proceed when the potential for violence and harm appeared likely; only an extremist would comport the actions of a school administration acting to mitigate violence as an affront to liberty. And only someone as captious as PC would make a federal case out of it.

Only an idiot compares wearing a shirt that someone might attack you for wearing and putting OTHERS in danger by yelling fire in a theater. Let me straighten this out for you –

If I yell fire in a theater I have created a situation that puts people in danger.

When I wear a shirt that you don’t like I have NOT placed others in danger.

What this school has done is utterly asinine and wrong. They have limited the freedom of one person because of others who would break the law and attack them. Get a clue – it is the people that attack you for wearing the shirt who are the problem – not the students that wear an American flag. I suppose you think it would be perfectly fine to take away the ability for those students to wear a Mexican flag as well if the other students started assaulting them in response.

Why are we reinforcing the violence as a solution? If you don’t like a particular symbol – beat those up that are wearing it until the school capitulates and bans that symbol. The ‘reasoning’ here is utterly insane.

We can argue if wearing a flag shirt meets the standard for fighting words*** all day, but the reality is an administrator who believes a student wearing any symbol which has the potential in his or her opinion to create chaos has a duty to protect his student population. That is certainly not asinine or wrong and logic has nothing to do with it.

You could argue that but then again it misses the ENTIRE point.

The administrator felt that the American flag itself was the problem, an opinion that is completely off base and asinine. The administrator ALSO manages to ignore the ones that are actually doing the attacking – an epic fail. Further, the administrator could have avoided this entire issue by simply banning the wearing of flags in general – a move that she avoided. Nay, the AMERICAN flag was removed while other students could wear the flag of their choice. THAT is selective restriction on specific speech. She did not limit flags because they create violence; she eliminated the AMERICAN flag only because ‘offended’ students beat on those that wore it. I can’t fathom how you can miss that GLARING reality.

Yet my questions to PC do require legal reasoning so I pose them to you too:

Comport the rights of those you defend wearing our flag on their shirts and the rights of another group ripping our flag into little ribbons of red, white and blue.

I have always defended the right to do with the flag as you please as a form of speech – if you really want to make a point by burning the American flag you are more than welcome to make your insanity public.

Speech is protected precisely for those forms that people disagree with.

And on which side would you fall on the decision in Morse v. Frederick (551 US 393 [2007), aka BONG hits 4 Jesus?

I so look forward to reading your legal reasoning.


*** fighting words n. words intentionally directed toward another person which are so nasty and full of malice as to cause the hearer to suffer emotional distress or incite him/her to immediately retaliate physically (hit, stab, shoot, etc.) While such words are not an excuse or defense for a retaliatory assault and battery, if they are threatening they can form the basis for a lawsuit for assault.
In the common law, assault is the tort of acting intentionally, that is with either general or specific intent, causing the reasonable apprehension of an immediate harmful or offensive contact. Because assault requires intent, it is considered an intentional tort, as opposed to a tort of negligence. Actual ability to carry out the apprehended contact is not necessary.

I agree with the courts decision that the banner was against the school policy and that the official was fully within her rights to remove it/suspend the student. Of course this example has absolutely no connection with the flags in the OP – the school did not have a policy that forbade the wearing of flags – JUST the American flag. Selective suppression of expression BASED ON THE MESSAGE. That is what this is, PERIOD.

No matter how you try and dress it up, you simply cannot do that.

BTW, if she had done this to the Mexican flag wearers and NOT the American flag wearers the issue would have been identical. It would still be wrong for the exact same reasons.

Also, to the bold – you are making the connection that the FLAG is ‘so nasty and full of malice as to cause the hearer to suffer emotional distress or incite him/her to immediately retaliate physically.’ That does not even rate as worthy of a response.

 

[Agit8r]

I haven't brushed up on my flagolatry lately. Is wearing an American flag considered good flag etiquette now?

 

[PoliticalChic]

You can fool some of the people all of the time; I suppose that suits your needs, and that's pitiful. I spent a career interacting in the real world with the high and mighty, the low and needy and the character disordered. You don't fool me.

What are you trying to say....'ya' can't fool a fool'????

My comment was quite clear. That you pretend otherwise is evidence of your dishonesty or pathology. In all honesty I don't give a damn if you're a liar or a psychotic.

I'm gettin' under your skin, eh?

Good.



Wait.....isn't this the time you usually shed your skin?

 

[Spiderman]

The flag is nothing but a bit of brightly colored cloth imbued with arbitrary meaning.

The flag is the soul of the nation.
The flag is the national anthem.

Nations don't have souls and I though the anthem was a poem set to music.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The flag is nothing but a bit of brightly colored cloth imbued with arbitrary meaning.

The flag is the soul of the nation.
The flag is the national anthem.

Nations don't have souls and I though the anthem was a poem set to music.

I'm certain you won't understand...but, all the same:

Then out spoke brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:
‘To every man upon this earth Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods,

Horatius at the Bridge by Lord Macaulay

 

[Spiderman]

The flag is the soul of the nation.
The flag is the national anthem.

Nations don't have souls and I though the anthem was a poem set to music.

I'm certain you won't understand...but, all the same:

Then out spoke brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:
‘To every man upon this earth Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods,

Horatius at the Bridge by Lord Macaulay

Yeah die for a dead guy and some misbegotten sense of history or for a non existent god. That's what a guy who isn't going to die tells his horde of cannon fodder so they willingly run to their deaths for his cause.

No thanks.

 

[bianco]

The flag is nothing but a bit of brightly colored cloth imbued with arbitrary meaning.

The flag is the soul of the nation.
The flag is the national anthem.

Nations don't have souls and I though the anthem was a poem set to music.

Nations do have souls...that's what patriotsim is all about.

The anthem is more than a poem, it's all about the flag.
How the America of today was born.

O say can you see by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner, O! long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave![12]

 

[bianco]

cont'd...

Trouble is that in America today, and especially in California, there are not enough American Christians to fight for "In God is our trust" and the American flag.
As a result the Mexican flag has basically taken over CA and is fast taking over America unchallenged.

This ban on the American flag clothing in CA schools surprises me not one iota.

 

[Howey]

Last week, a three-judge panel said it was peachy-keen for a school to forbid students to wear shirts with the image.....ready?........

...of the American flag.

Ahh...but they can wear it every other day of the year, right?

Sounds to me like some bigoted parents didn't have the guts to show how bigoted they are and forced their kids to do it instead.

 

[MikeK]

I consider it an encroachment onto First Amendment territory.

As in the Second Amendment example -- little by little, one small step at a time.

 

[bianco]

They should be able to wear the American flag clothing every day...it does not affect Cinco de Mayo in any way.
Trouble is...far too much is made of Cinco de Mayo and this hero worship gives people the idea that they and their Mexican flag are the most important.

Time to cancel Cinco de Mayo Day and consign it to history books only?

 

[bianco]

Then there are the huge Mexican lags flying everywhere, including in schools.

It's no wonder some American kids and their parents get annoyed and see it as a war of takeover...and decide to fight back.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikOZ0HJOSM]Texas School Suspends Student for Removing Mexican Flag on cinco de mayo - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Spiderman]

The flag is the soul of the nation.
The flag is the national anthem.

Nations don't have souls and I though the anthem was a poem set to music.

Nations do have souls...that's what patriotsim is all about.

The anthem is more than a poem, it's all about the flag.
How the America of today was born.

The anthem is a poem about one battle patriotism is nothing but indoctrination.

 

[bianco]

America used to be British, and a different flag flew over the land.
America today flies a different flag, of which the national anthem is all about.


pa·tri·ot·ism/ˈpeɪtriəˌtɪzəm or, esp. British, ˈpæ-/ Show Spelled [pey-tree-uh-tiz-uhm or, esp. British, pa-] Show IPA

noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.


When America's soul and culture are under threat from within today, ...from atheists and those who would rather see a different flag flying and Christianity non existent...it's good to see patriots speaking out.

 

[Spiderman]

America used to be British, and a different flag flew over the land.
America today flies a different flag, of which the national anthem is all about.


pa·tri·ot·ism/ˈpeɪtriəˌtɪzəm or, esp. British, ˈpæ-/ Show Spelled [pey-tree-uh-tiz-uhm or, esp. British, pa-] Show IPA

noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.


When America's soul and culture are under threat from within today, ...from atheists and those who would rather see a different flag flying and Christianity non existent...it's good to see patriots speaking out.

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious

Oscar Wilde

 

[PoliticalChic]

America used to be British, and a different flag flew over the land.
America today flies a different flag, of which the national anthem is all about.


pa·tri·ot·ism/ˈpeɪtriəˌtɪzəm or, esp. British, ˈpæ-/ Show Spelled [pey-tree-uh-tiz-uhm or, esp. British, pa-] Show IPA

noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.


When America's soul and culture are under threat from within today, ...from atheists and those who would rather see a different flag flying and Christianity non existent...it's good to see patriots speaking out.

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious

Oscar Wilde

Sad to think that there are great numbers of folks like you here, in this once great nation.




I have a quote that is far more accurate, and relates directly to you:

“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man.”


― Mark Twain

 

[1751_Texan]

America used to be British, and a different flag flew over the land.
America today flies a different flag, of which the national anthem is all about.


pa·tri·ot·ism/ˈpeɪtriəˌtɪzəm or, esp. British, ˈpæ-/ Show Spelled [pey-tree-uh-tiz-uhm or, esp. British, pa-] Show IPA

noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.


When America's soul and culture are under threat from within today, ...from atheists and those who would rather see a different flag flying and Christianity non existent...it's good to see patriots speaking out.

When did our flag become a Christian icon? There are plenty of good men and women burried at our National cemetaries around the world that have no affiliation to Christianity.

The didn't pay the ultimate sacrafice for Christianity...they did for America and ALL AMERICANS.

Fly the flag, dont fly the flag...that is your Constitutional choice. That is what the flag represents.

national cemetery in france - Bing Images

 

[Dot Com]

using the flag as an article of clothing is tacky as all get out not to mention disrespectful. I served & I would never wear something like that. Most all those items are prolly made in, you guessed it Red China anyway.

 

[Spiderman]

America used to be British, and a different flag flew over the land.
America today flies a different flag, of which the national anthem is all about.


pa·tri·ot·ism/ˈpeɪtriəˌtɪzəm or, esp. British, ˈpæ-/ Show Spelled [pey-tree-uh-tiz-uhm or, esp. British, pa-] Show IPA

noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.


When America's soul and culture are under threat from within today, ...from atheists and those who would rather see a different flag flying and Christianity non existent...it's good to see patriots speaking out.

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious

Oscar Wilde

Sad to think that there are great numbers of folks like you here, in this once great nation.




I have a quote that is far more accurate, and relates directly to you:

“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man.”


― Mark Twain

Patriotism is ridiculous.

Haven't we evolved beyond our tribal ways where we piss on our territory?

PAtriotism is a manufactured state of mind used by those in power to get the rest of us to fight and die for their causes.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious

Oscar Wilde

Sad to think that there are great numbers of folks like you here, in this once great nation.




I have a quote that is far more accurate, and relates directly to you:

“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man.”


― Mark Twain

Patriotism is ridiculous.

Haven't we evolved beyond our tribal ways where we piss on our territory?

PAtriotism is a manufactured state of mind used by those in power to get the rest of us to fight and die for their causes.

Don't let the door hit 'ya.......