Obamacare good or bad ?

[emilynghiem]

In France a medical opération of a cost of $ 4,000 is fully refunded but you Americans you must fully pay for an medicale operation?
And Obamacare is a cover for the poorest only?

You would do much better arriving at a real understanding of this by researching on your own, and going back to look at the trendline in spending going back to the 1900s, or at least the 1960s. In america, healthcare is political and the status quo would lose economically were we to join the advanced modern world in a single payer system. As such, healthcare in the US has never been about what works best for society, but rather what lines the pockets of the private corporate health insurance and pharma industries.

Here in France the health cover ( healht insurance) is espensive every month, we have to have a other insurance than the SQ is the gouvernement coverage

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/m...ef/2015/oct/squires_oecd_exhibit_12.png?la=en

Per Capita Healthcare Costs — International Comparison

All of the 10 countries on the list spend at least 8.9% of their total GDP on health care. The difference, however, between the No. 1 spender, the United States, and the No. 10 spender, Canada, is quite large. Canada spent 10.2% of its GDP on health care in 2013, which amounted to $4,351 per person, while the United States spent 16.4% of its GDP that year, amounting to $8,713 per person.

According to Francesca Colombo, head of the health division at the OECD, “Higher health sector prices explain much of the difference between the U.S. and other high-spending countries.” She added that the health care system in the United States is also fragmented and overly complex, with a larger share of uninsured individuals than is common among developed countries. While every country on the list has near universal health care coverage, only 88.5% of Americans are insured. However, under the Affordable Care Act, the U.S. uninsured rate is on the decline.
Countries Spending the Most on Health Care

View attachment 118775
Subscribe to read

Health Care Spending as a Percentage of GDP, 1980–2013

GREAT Fenton Lum

Now show us where CA TX and other states
spend BILLIONS on inmates including ILLEGAL undocumented nationals
who aren't even US citizens. When that money could pay for HEALTH CARE
for LAW ABIDING citizens and taxpayers.

SHOW US THE MONEY!!!

I think we have found common ground now that you've abandoned the healthcare discussion for something else. I agree that corporate for profit prisons which signal this society’s return to profiting from bondage, with stocks traded on Wall Street, do siphon off taxpayer funding away from the commons into the hands of private corporations who lobby for more criminalized behaviors, longer sentencing, and provide a profit motive for more crime in society and high rates of recidivism.

But your healthcare money went to your endless war of global occupation funds.

Love the bold big all caps.

Not "abandoning" anything Fenton Lum
there are LOTS of issues combined into health care.

I have MORE issues to address that are part of the solution.

So I can still answer to the ones you brought up,
* plus bring up more * which are just as important
if we are going to solve this problem.

And the caps were to answer to all your graphs and stats
that didn't how much money was wasted on failed
prisons and mental health systems which could pay for health care...

 

[Fenton Lum]

In France a medical opération of a cost of $ 4,000 is fully refunded but you Americans you must fully pay for an medicale operation?
And Obamacare is a cover for the poorest only?

Dear Dalia
France is about the size of Texas, only 1 of 50 states that would have to vote and decide on a policy
"for all 50 states if this is NATIONAL"

For population, France is like adding CA and TX together, those are two of the top populations.
But with political diversity, CA is the polar OPPOSITE of TX.

We'd be better having CA make its own health care policy for its citizens.
And TX do the same.

And FL, and NY.

Then if more than one state can AGREE, why can't their citizens pool costs
and resources together. But give other states the FREE CHOICE whether to participate or not.

This could be done by organizing Nationally and Statewide by PARTY.
The liberal parties want universal care managed on a global collective level such as national or federal.
The conservatives parties want localized control to stay with taxpayers per state.

so both can get what they want if we organize by PARTY so the people'
who SHARE the same philosophy can pool their resources together under a collective plan
for their members (and leave other members of other parties to organize their OWN PLANS too!).

Both parties serve corporate interests to the demise of society at large, tell her the truth.

 

[Fenton Lum]

You would do much better arriving at a real understanding of this by researching on your own, and going back to look at the trendline in spending going back to the 1900s, or at least the 1960s. In america, healthcare is political and the status quo would lose economically were we to join the advanced modern world in a single payer system. As such, healthcare in the US has never been about what works best for society, but rather what lines the pockets of the private corporate health insurance and pharma industries.

Here in France the health cover ( healht insurance) is espensive every month, we have to have a other insurance than the SQ is the gouvernement coverage

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/m...ef/2015/oct/squires_oecd_exhibit_12.png?la=en

Per Capita Healthcare Costs — International Comparison

All of the 10 countries on the list spend at least 8.9% of their total GDP on health care. The difference, however, between the No. 1 spender, the United States, and the No. 10 spender, Canada, is quite large. Canada spent 10.2% of its GDP on health care in 2013, which amounted to $4,351 per person, while the United States spent 16.4% of its GDP that year, amounting to $8,713 per person.

According to Francesca Colombo, head of the health division at the OECD, “Higher health sector prices explain much of the difference between the U.S. and other high-spending countries.” She added that the health care system in the United States is also fragmented and overly complex, with a larger share of uninsured individuals than is common among developed countries. While every country on the list has near universal health care coverage, only 88.5% of Americans are insured. However, under the Affordable Care Act, the U.S. uninsured rate is on the decline.
Countries Spending the Most on Health Care

View attachment 118775
Subscribe to read

Health Care Spending as a Percentage of GDP, 1980–2013

GREAT Fenton Lum

Now show us where CA TX and other states
spend BILLIONS on inmates including ILLEGAL undocumented nationals
who aren't even US citizens. When that money could pay for HEALTH CARE
for LAW ABIDING citizens and taxpayers.

SHOW US THE MONEY!!!

I think we have found common ground now that you've abandoned the healthcare discussion for something else. I agree that corporate for profit prisons which signal this society’s return to profiting from bondage, with stocks traded on Wall Street, do siphon off taxpayer funding away from the commons into the hands of private corporations who lobby for more criminalized behaviors, longer sentencing, and provide a profit motive for more crime in society and high rates of recidivism.

But your healthcare money went to your endless war of global occupation funds.

Love the bold big all caps.

Not "abandoning" anything Fenton Lum
there are LOTS of issues combined into health care.

I have MORE issues to address that are part of the solution.

So I can still answer to the ones you brought up,
* plus bring up more * which are just as important
if we are going to solve this problem.

And the caps were to answer to all your graphs and stats
that didn't how much money was wasted on failed
prisons and mental health systems which could pay for health care...

So you want to use public funding. What is a successful prison?

 

[emilynghiem]

In France a medical opération of a cost of $ 4,000 is fully refunded but you Americans you must fully pay for an medicale operation?
And Obamacare is a cover for the poorest only?

Dear Dalia
France is about the size of Texas, only 1 of 50 states that would have to vote and decide on a policy
"for all 50 states if this is NATIONAL"

For population, France is like adding CA and TX together, those are two of the top populations.
But with political diversity, CA is the polar OPPOSITE of TX.

We'd be better having CA make its own health care policy for its citizens.
And TX do the same.

And FL, and NY.

Then if more than one state can AGREE, why can't their citizens pool costs
and resources together. But give other states the FREE CHOICE whether to participate or not.

This could be done by organizing Nationally and Statewide by PARTY.
The liberal parties want universal care managed on a global collective level such as national or federal.
The conservatives parties want localized control to stay with taxpayers per state.

so both can get what they want if we organize by PARTY so the people'
who SHARE the same philosophy can pool their resources together under a collective plan
for their members (and leave other members of other parties to organize their OWN PLANS too!).

Both parties serve corporate interests to the demise of society at large, tell her the truth.

AGREED we are getting better at this!
Fenton Lum that is why we need to
check parties and states, make sure
they are representing people BEFORE
trying to create federal/national policy.

Always give taxpayers a choice.
If taxpayers can yank their funds and participation
and move to a different program,
then the programs have to compete to keep their customer accounts.

Look at nonprofits and at church schools or charities.
They have to remain accountable to the public to keep earning donations and support.

We need party and political leaders to have that same responsibility to the people
they are supposed to serve and represent.

so we start by having direct relations and accountability on a LOCAL level.
Like if all the People of France agree on a policy.
or all the People of Texas.

And then if something works, the other groups or states
can adopt and implement the same BY FREE CHOICE.

If you are forced to pay for programs whether they work or not,
there is no motivation to fix the problems.

That is why members of Congress don't change health care policies.
Their insurance is paid for by taxpayers. They aren't affected, either way!

They just pass whatever they THINK is going to get them elected
but not what WORKS. BECAUSE WHAT WORKS CANNOT BE PROVEN YET.

So if you are going to have subjective policies,
at least let states decide LOCALLY so they answer to their own constituents.

Get it right on that level.
PROVE WHAT WORKS FIRST.
Before pitching it nationally on a federal level.

 

[Fenton Lum]

In France a medical opération of a cost of $ 4,000 is fully refunded but you Americans you must fully pay for an medicale operation?
And Obamacare is a cover for the poorest only?

Dear Dalia
France is about the size of Texas, only 1 of 50 states that would have to vote and decide on a policy
"for all 50 states if this is NATIONAL"

For population, France is like adding CA and TX together, those are two of the top populations.
But with political diversity, CA is the polar OPPOSITE of TX.

We'd be better having CA make its own health care policy for its citizens.
And TX do the same.

And FL, and NY.

Then if more than one state can AGREE, why can't their citizens pool costs
and resources together. But give other states the FREE CHOICE whether to participate or not.

This could be done by organizing Nationally and Statewide by PARTY.
The liberal parties want universal care managed on a global collective level such as national or federal.
The conservatives parties want localized control to stay with taxpayers per state.

so both can get what they want if we organize by PARTY so the people'
who SHARE the same philosophy can pool their resources together under a collective plan
for their members (and leave other members of other parties to organize their OWN PLANS too!).

Both parties serve corporate interests to the demise of society at large, tell her the truth.

AGREED we are getting better at this!
Fenton Lum that is why we need to
check parties and states, make sure
they are representing people BEFORE
trying to create federal/national policy.

Always give taxpayers a choice.
If taxpayers can yank their funds and participation
and move to a different program,
then the programs have to compete to keep their customer accounts.

Look at nonprofits and at church schools or charities.
They have to remain accountable to the public to keep earning donations and support.

We need party and political leaders to have that same responsibility to the people
they are supposed to serve and represent.

so we start by having direct relations and accountability on a LOCAL level.
Like if all the People of France agree on a policy.
or all the People of Texas.

And then if something works, the other groups or states
can adopt and implement the same BY FREE CHOICE.

If you are forced to pay for programs whether they work or not,
there is no motivation to fix the problems.

That is why members of Congress don't change health care policies.
Their insurance is paid for by taxpayers. They aren't affected, either way!

They just pass whatever they THINK is going to get them elected
but not what WORKS. BECAUSE WHAT WORKS CANNOT BE PROVEN YET.

So if you are going to have subjective policies,
at least let states decide LOCALLY so they answer to their own constituents.

Get it right on that level.
PROVE WHAT WORKS FIRST.
Before pitching it nationally on a federal level.

All anyone would have to do is look at the single payer systems working much better than ours in other nations, steal their best ideas for this society, and go.

Ain't no money in it, the players in our system aren't giving up their strangle hold on the public. In america it is always about the money. Your notion that we take money from "failed prisons and mental institutuions: is nuts. Other societies achieve better outcomes for LESS spending.

 

[emilynghiem]

Here in France the health cover ( healht insurance) is espensive every month, we have to have a other insurance than the SQ is the gouvernement coverage

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/m...ef/2015/oct/squires_oecd_exhibit_12.png?la=en

Per Capita Healthcare Costs — International Comparison

All of the 10 countries on the list spend at least 8.9% of their total GDP on health care. The difference, however, between the No. 1 spender, the United States, and the No. 10 spender, Canada, is quite large. Canada spent 10.2% of its GDP on health care in 2013, which amounted to $4,351 per person, while the United States spent 16.4% of its GDP that year, amounting to $8,713 per person.

According to Francesca Colombo, head of the health division at the OECD, “Higher health sector prices explain much of the difference between the U.S. and other high-spending countries.” She added that the health care system in the United States is also fragmented and overly complex, with a larger share of uninsured individuals than is common among developed countries. While every country on the list has near universal health care coverage, only 88.5% of Americans are insured. However, under the Affordable Care Act, the U.S. uninsured rate is on the decline.
Countries Spending the Most on Health Care

View attachment 118775
Subscribe to read

Health Care Spending as a Percentage of GDP, 1980–2013

GREAT Fenton Lum

Now show us where CA TX and other states
spend BILLIONS on inmates including ILLEGAL undocumented nationals
who aren't even US citizens. When that money could pay for HEALTH CARE
for LAW ABIDING citizens and taxpayers.

SHOW US THE MONEY!!!

I think we have found common ground now that you've abandoned the healthcare discussion for something else. I agree that corporate for profit prisons which signal this society’s return to profiting from bondage, with stocks traded on Wall Street, do siphon off taxpayer funding away from the commons into the hands of private corporations who lobby for more criminalized behaviors, longer sentencing, and provide a profit motive for more crime in society and high rates of recidivism.

But your healthcare money went to your endless war of global occupation funds.

Love the bold big all caps.

Not "abandoning" anything Fenton Lum
there are LOTS of issues combined into health care.

I have MORE issues to address that are part of the solution.

So I can still answer to the ones you brought up,
* plus bring up more * which are just as important
if we are going to solve this problem.

And the caps were to answer to all your graphs and stats
that didn't how much money was wasted on failed
prisons and mental health systems which could pay for health care...

So you want to use public funding. What is a successful prison?

My standards I would propose may be higher than others envision
because I have seen proof this is possible.

* I'd say that either the wrongdoers must cover costs of their consequences
including restitution to the victims OR THEIR LEGAL Guardians should
if the convicts are mentally or legally incompetent.

* The programs should properly diagnose, manage counsel treat and/or cure
the disorder or issues of the person that caused the criminal behavior and conviction.

* And if these programs are effective, we should see a reduction or elimination of
crime and increase in using those resources to pay for
* medical education and training
* internships and residencies to provide public services in health care and prevention
* facilities used for clinics and services instead of only warehousing people without treating or curing them
================================

For examples of Restorative Justice programs that BREAK the cycle of abuse crime and poverty:
Look up the Justice Fellowship programs that have taken over entire units.
Look up No More Victims, Inc.
Alternatives to Violence Project.
These are just a FEW examples.

MANY programs involving "education" have proven to result in better success rates for inmates integrating back into society as productive citizens and not relapsing.
One teacher with MENSA who taught in prisons did so through community college.
So the money saved by reducing crime rates can translate into creating paid scholarsihps
and jobs in EDUCATION, solving the financial issues with both health care and education.

===============================
But Fenton Lum the programs that I believe will have the
greatest impact in reforming the mental health and criminal justice systems
are the methods of Spiritual Healing that
* diagnose
* treat and/or
* cure
mental and criminal illness, as well as physical disorders and diseases.
I have found 3 viable resources for spiritual healing that can be studied further
using formal medical research and development (one of these nonprofits
already had the Templeton Foundation fund a successful study on Rheumatoid Arthritis
cured in several patients using FREE methods where otherwise this condition
requires costly medications that never cure the problem but keep the person crippled)
freespiritualhealing lists 3 resources I recommend for medical R&D

Because these methods can potentially and permanently CURE
the causes of diseases, ranging from cancer to criminal illness,
the savings in terms of lives, medical resources, and cost to taxpayers
would reform the entire system and cover costs of preventative health care and education.

The "precedent" or legal model I would use to push for reform
is "modeled" after RICO which covers DRUG trafficking: by taxpayers
demanding that the cost of drug and organized crime be PAID BACK
TO TAXPAYERS as reimbursement for our costs, we can start
DEMANDING that the tax resources spent on crime be spent on health care.

WE EXPAND on the RICO laws for restitution,
and demand this be applied to ALL crime and corruption
that costs taxpayers money, including corporate and govt abuses!

So Fenton Lum we may agree again.
If we both protest corporate WASTE and ABUSE'
why not demand reimbursement and restitution.
Demand CREDITS back to the Taxpayers,
assess these wrongs and damages, set up accounts
through the Federal Reserve where we track those credits.
Then use that money (that we've already paid, not new taxes)
to pay for health care reforms, invest in educational loans,
and develop the programs that will eventually pay back and break the cycle of waste and corruption.

 

[emilynghiem]

In France a medical opération of a cost of $ 4,000 is fully refunded but you Americans you must fully pay for an medicale operation?
And Obamacare is a cover for the poorest only?

Dear Dalia
France is about the size of Texas, only 1 of 50 states that would have to vote and decide on a policy
"for all 50 states if this is NATIONAL"

For population, France is like adding CA and TX together, those are two of the top populations.
But with political diversity, CA is the polar OPPOSITE of TX.

We'd be better having CA make its own health care policy for its citizens.
And TX do the same.

And FL, and NY.

Then if more than one state can AGREE, why can't their citizens pool costs
and resources together. But give other states the FREE CHOICE whether to participate or not.

This could be done by organizing Nationally and Statewide by PARTY.
The liberal parties want universal care managed on a global collective level such as national or federal.
The conservatives parties want localized control to stay with taxpayers per state.

so both can get what they want if we organize by PARTY so the people'
who SHARE the same philosophy can pool their resources together under a collective plan
for their members (and leave other members of other parties to organize their OWN PLANS too!).

Both parties serve corporate interests to the demise of society at large, tell her the truth.

AGREED we are getting better at this!
Fenton Lum that is why we need to
check parties and states, make sure
they are representing people BEFORE
trying to create federal/national policy.

Always give taxpayers a choice.
If taxpayers can yank their funds and participation
and move to a different program,
then the programs have to compete to keep their customer accounts.

Look at nonprofits and at church schools or charities.
They have to remain accountable to the public to keep earning donations and support.

We need party and political leaders to have that same responsibility to the people
they are supposed to serve and represent.

so we start by having direct relations and accountability on a LOCAL level.
Like if all the People of France agree on a policy.
or all the People of Texas.

And then if something works, the other groups or states
can adopt and implement the same BY FREE CHOICE.

If you are forced to pay for programs whether they work or not,
there is no motivation to fix the problems.

That is why members of Congress don't change health care policies.
Their insurance is paid for by taxpayers. They aren't affected, either way!

They just pass whatever they THINK is going to get them elected
but not what WORKS. BECAUSE WHAT WORKS CANNOT BE PROVEN YET.

So if you are going to have subjective policies,
at least let states decide LOCALLY so they answer to their own constituents.

Get it right on that level.
PROVE WHAT WORKS FIRST.
Before pitching it nationally on a federal level.

All anyone would have to do is look at the single payer systems working much better than ours in other nations, steal their best ideas for this society, and go.

Ain't no money in it, the players in our system aren't giving up their strangle hold on the public. In america it is always about the money. Your notion that we take money from "failed prisons and mental institutuions: is nuts. Other societies achieve better outcomes for LESS spending.

Dear Fenton Lum Again
as I pointed out to Dalia
look at the SIZE of those nations and their
homogenous populations compared with
* TX
* CA
* NY
* FL
* and the US

We don't have uniform populations.
We can't even get two parties per state to agree on health care.
So we need to do our homework first.
Get local programs and policies going that DO REPRESENT and SERVE
local populations. And maybe we can have what you see and cite in other coutnries.

 

[Fenton Lum]

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/m...ef/2015/oct/squires_oecd_exhibit_12.png?la=en

Per Capita Healthcare Costs — International Comparison

All of the 10 countries on the list spend at least 8.9% of their total GDP on health care. The difference, however, between the No. 1 spender, the United States, and the No. 10 spender, Canada, is quite large. Canada spent 10.2% of its GDP on health care in 2013, which amounted to $4,351 per person, while the United States spent 16.4% of its GDP that year, amounting to $8,713 per person.

According to Francesca Colombo, head of the health division at the OECD, “Higher health sector prices explain much of the difference between the U.S. and other high-spending countries.” She added that the health care system in the United States is also fragmented and overly complex, with a larger share of uninsured individuals than is common among developed countries. While every country on the list has near universal health care coverage, only 88.5% of Americans are insured. However, under the Affordable Care Act, the U.S. uninsured rate is on the decline.
Countries Spending the Most on Health Care

View attachment 118775
Subscribe to read

Health Care Spending as a Percentage of GDP, 1980–2013

GREAT Fenton Lum

Now show us where CA TX and other states
spend BILLIONS on inmates including ILLEGAL undocumented nationals
who aren't even US citizens. When that money could pay for HEALTH CARE
for LAW ABIDING citizens and taxpayers.

SHOW US THE MONEY!!!

I think we have found common ground now that you've abandoned the healthcare discussion for something else. I agree that corporate for profit prisons which signal this society’s return to profiting from bondage, with stocks traded on Wall Street, do siphon off taxpayer funding away from the commons into the hands of private corporations who lobby for more criminalized behaviors, longer sentencing, and provide a profit motive for more crime in society and high rates of recidivism.

But your healthcare money went to your endless war of global occupation funds.

Love the bold big all caps.

Not "abandoning" anything Fenton Lum
there are LOTS of issues combined into health care.

I have MORE issues to address that are part of the solution.

So I can still answer to the ones you brought up,
* plus bring up more * which are just as important
if we are going to solve this problem.

And the caps were to answer to all your graphs and stats
that didn't how much money was wasted on failed
prisons and mental health systems which could pay for health care...

So you want to use public funding. What is a successful prison?

My standards I would propose may be higher than others envision
because I have seen proof this is possible.

* I'd say that either the wrongdoers must cover costs of their consequences
including restitution to the victims OR THEIR LEGAL Guardians should
if the convicts are mentally or legally incompetent.

* The programs should properly diagnose, manage counsel treat and/or cure
the disorder or issues of the person that caused the criminal behavior and conviction.

* And if these programs are effective, we should see a reduction or elimination of
crime and increase in using those resources to pay for
* medical education and training
* internships and residencies to provide public services in health care and prevention
* facilities used for clinics and services instead of only warehousing people without treating or curing them
================================

For examples of Restorative Justice programs that BREAK the cycle of abuse crime and poverty:
Look up the Justice Fellowship programs that have taken over entire units.
Look up No More Victims, Inc.
Alternatives to Violence Project.
These are just a FEW examples.

MANY programs involving "education" have proven to result in better success rates for inmates integrating back into society as productive citizens and not relapsing.
One teacher with MENSA who taught in prisons did so through community college.
So the money saved by reducing crime rates can translate into creating paid scholarsihps
and jobs in EDUCATION, solving the financial issues with both health care and education.

===============================
But Fenton Lum the programs that I believe will have the
greatest impact in reforming the mental health and criminal justice systems
are the methods of Spiritual Healing that
* diagnose
* treat and/or
* cure
mental and criminal illness, as well as physical disorders and diseases.
I have found 3 viable resources for spiritual healing that can be studied further
using formal medical research and development (one of these nonprofits
already had the Templeton Foundation fund a successful study on Rheumatoid Arthritis
cured in several patients using FREE methods where otherwise this condition
requires costly medications that never cure the problem but keep the person crippled)
freespiritualhealing lists 3 resources I recommend for medical R&D

Because these methods can potentially and permanently CURE
the causes of diseases, ranging from cancer to criminal illness,
the savings in terms of lives, medical resources, and cost to taxpayers
would reform the entire system and cover costs of preventative health care and education.

The "precedent" or legal model I would use to push for reform
is "modeled" after RICO which covers DRUG trafficking: by taxpayers
demanding that the cost of drug and organized crime be PAID BACK
TO TAXPAYERS as reimbursement for our costs, we can start
DEMANDING that the tax resources spent on crime be spent on health care.

WE EXPAND on the RICO laws for restitution,
and demand this be applied to ALL crime and corruption
that costs taxpayers money, including corporate and govt abuses!

So Fenton Lum we may agree again.
If we both protest corporate WASTE and ABUSE'
why not demand reimbursement and restitution.
Demand CREDITS back to the Taxpayers,
assess these wrongs and damages, set up accounts
through the Federal Reserve where we track those credits.
Then use that money (that we've already paid, not new taxes)
to pay for health care reforms, invest in educational loans,
and develop the programs that will eventually pay back and break the cycle of waste and corruption.

No mention of the war machine cannibalizing society.

Concentrated corporate wealth and power bought out the media machine, and the political/economic system. You're asking them to reform themselves and take less out of society.

Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Fenton Lum]

In France a medical opération of a cost of $ 4,000 is fully refunded but you Americans you must fully pay for an medicale operation?
And Obamacare is a cover for the poorest only?

Dear Dalia
France is about the size of Texas, only 1 of 50 states that would have to vote and decide on a policy
"for all 50 states if this is NATIONAL"

For population, France is like adding CA and TX together, those are two of the top populations.
But with political diversity, CA is the polar OPPOSITE of TX.

We'd be better having CA make its own health care policy for its citizens.
And TX do the same.

And FL, and NY.

Then if more than one state can AGREE, why can't their citizens pool costs
and resources together. But give other states the FREE CHOICE whether to participate or not.

This could be done by organizing Nationally and Statewide by PARTY.
The liberal parties want universal care managed on a global collective level such as national or federal.
The conservatives parties want localized control to stay with taxpayers per state.

so both can get what they want if we organize by PARTY so the people'
who SHARE the same philosophy can pool their resources together under a collective plan
for their members (and leave other members of other parties to organize their OWN PLANS too!).

Both parties serve corporate interests to the demise of society at large, tell her the truth.

AGREED we are getting better at this!
Fenton Lum that is why we need to
check parties and states, make sure
they are representing people BEFORE
trying to create federal/national policy.

Always give taxpayers a choice.
If taxpayers can yank their funds and participation
and move to a different program,
then the programs have to compete to keep their customer accounts.

Look at nonprofits and at church schools or charities.
They have to remain accountable to the public to keep earning donations and support.

We need party and political leaders to have that same responsibility to the people
they are supposed to serve and represent.

so we start by having direct relations and accountability on a LOCAL level.
Like if all the People of France agree on a policy.
or all the People of Texas.

And then if something works, the other groups or states
can adopt and implement the same BY FREE CHOICE.

If you are forced to pay for programs whether they work or not,
there is no motivation to fix the problems.

That is why members of Congress don't change health care policies.
Their insurance is paid for by taxpayers. They aren't affected, either way!

They just pass whatever they THINK is going to get them elected
but not what WORKS. BECAUSE WHAT WORKS CANNOT BE PROVEN YET.

So if you are going to have subjective policies,
at least let states decide LOCALLY so they answer to their own constituents.

Get it right on that level.
PROVE WHAT WORKS FIRST.
Before pitching it nationally on a federal level.

All anyone would have to do is look at the single payer systems working much better than ours in other nations, steal their best ideas for this society, and go.

Ain't no money in it, the players in our system aren't giving up their strangle hold on the public. In america it is always about the money. Your notion that we take money from "failed prisons and mental institutuions: is nuts. Other societies achieve better outcomes for LESS spending.

Dear Fenton Lum Again
as I pointed out to Dalia
look at the SIZE of those nations and their
homogenous populations compared with
* TX
* CA
* NY
* FL
* and the US

We don't have uniform populations.
We can't even get two parties per state to agree on health care.
So we need to do our homework first.
Get local programs and policies going that DO REPRESENT and SERVE
local populations. And maybe we can have what you see and cite in other coutnries.

Mm hmm, better stay healthy.

 

[emilynghiem]

GREAT Fenton Lum

Now show us where CA TX and other states
spend BILLIONS on inmates including ILLEGAL undocumented nationals
who aren't even US citizens. When that money could pay for HEALTH CARE
for LAW ABIDING citizens and taxpayers.

SHOW US THE MONEY!!!

I think we have found common ground now that you've abandoned the healthcare discussion for something else. I agree that corporate for profit prisons which signal this society’s return to profiting from bondage, with stocks traded on Wall Street, do siphon off taxpayer funding away from the commons into the hands of private corporations who lobby for more criminalized behaviors, longer sentencing, and provide a profit motive for more crime in society and high rates of recidivism.

But your healthcare money went to your endless war of global occupation funds.

Love the bold big all caps.

Not "abandoning" anything Fenton Lum
there are LOTS of issues combined into health care.

I have MORE issues to address that are part of the solution.

So I can still answer to the ones you brought up,
* plus bring up more * which are just as important
if we are going to solve this problem.

And the caps were to answer to all your graphs and stats
that didn't how much money was wasted on failed
prisons and mental health systems which could pay for health care...

So you want to use public funding. What is a successful prison?

My standards I would propose may be higher than others envision
because I have seen proof this is possible.

* I'd say that either the wrongdoers must cover costs of their consequences
including restitution to the victims OR THEIR LEGAL Guardians should
if the convicts are mentally or legally incompetent.

* The programs should properly diagnose, manage counsel treat and/or cure
the disorder or issues of the person that caused the criminal behavior and conviction.

* And if these programs are effective, we should see a reduction or elimination of
crime and increase in using those resources to pay for
* medical education and training
* internships and residencies to provide public services in health care and prevention
* facilities used for clinics and services instead of only warehousing people without treating or curing them
================================

For examples of Restorative Justice programs that BREAK the cycle of abuse crime and poverty:
Look up the Justice Fellowship programs that have taken over entire units.
Look up No More Victims, Inc.
Alternatives to Violence Project.
These are just a FEW examples.

MANY programs involving "education" have proven to result in better success rates for inmates integrating back into society as productive citizens and not relapsing.
One teacher with MENSA who taught in prisons did so through community college.
So the money saved by reducing crime rates can translate into creating paid scholarsihps
and jobs in EDUCATION, solving the financial issues with both health care and education.

===============================
But Fenton Lum the programs that I believe will have the
greatest impact in reforming the mental health and criminal justice systems
are the methods of Spiritual Healing that
* diagnose
* treat and/or
* cure
mental and criminal illness, as well as physical disorders and diseases.
I have found 3 viable resources for spiritual healing that can be studied further
using formal medical research and development (one of these nonprofits
already had the Templeton Foundation fund a successful study on Rheumatoid Arthritis
cured in several patients using FREE methods where otherwise this condition
requires costly medications that never cure the problem but keep the person crippled)
freespiritualhealing lists 3 resources I recommend for medical R&D

Because these methods can potentially and permanently CURE
the causes of diseases, ranging from cancer to criminal illness,
the savings in terms of lives, medical resources, and cost to taxpayers
would reform the entire system and cover costs of preventative health care and education.

The "precedent" or legal model I would use to push for reform
is "modeled" after RICO which covers DRUG trafficking: by taxpayers
demanding that the cost of drug and organized crime be PAID BACK
TO TAXPAYERS as reimbursement for our costs, we can start
DEMANDING that the tax resources spent on crime be spent on health care.

WE EXPAND on the RICO laws for restitution,
and demand this be applied to ALL crime and corruption
that costs taxpayers money, including corporate and govt abuses!

So Fenton Lum we may agree again.
If we both protest corporate WASTE and ABUSE'
why not demand reimbursement and restitution.
Demand CREDITS back to the Taxpayers,
assess these wrongs and damages, set up accounts
through the Federal Reserve where we track those credits.
Then use that money (that we've already paid, not new taxes)
to pay for health care reforms, invest in educational loans,
and develop the programs that will eventually pay back and break the cycle of waste and corruption.

No mention of the war machine cannibalizing society.

Concentrated corporate wealth and power bought out the media machine, and the political/economic system. You're asking them to reform themselves and take less out of society.

Ain't gonna happen.

^ YES ^ we agree AGAIN!
I actually got agreements from Peace and Justice and OCCUPY activists
on this idea: of including WAR contracts and illicit WAR spending
in the restitution and reimbursements to taxpayers to pay for health care and social programs.

You can read my past msgs and see that
I have brought this up with fellow Democrats and Greens,
and demanded why haven't the opponents GONE AFTER THESE FUNDS!!!

Exactly Fenton Lum
We agree on this too!

NOTE: It's the GREENS that have been teaching the process of independent currency
see
Introducing HOUR Money OR www.paulglover.org
So I am EXPANDING on this model to propose setting up
federal reserve accounts holding CREDIT owed to TAXPAYERS
for illicit contracts and corporate abuse of govt that we didn't authorize.

And use those credits to cover costs of corrections and reforms.
If the wrongdoers dont pay back the costs, then investors or taxpayers
can buy out the debts in exchange for OWNING THE PROPERTY
OR PROGRAMS AS COLLATERAL ON THE DEBTS AND DAMAGES.

So taxpayers take back control of how our tax money is spent.
And it goes to programs we agree to pay for.

 

[Fenton Lum]

I think we have found common ground now that you've abandoned the healthcare discussion for something else. I agree that corporate for profit prisons which signal this society’s return to profiting from bondage, with stocks traded on Wall Street, do siphon off taxpayer funding away from the commons into the hands of private corporations who lobby for more criminalized behaviors, longer sentencing, and provide a profit motive for more crime in society and high rates of recidivism.

But your healthcare money went to your endless war of global occupation funds.

Love the bold big all caps.

Not "abandoning" anything Fenton Lum
there are LOTS of issues combined into health care.

I have MORE issues to address that are part of the solution.

So I can still answer to the ones you brought up,
* plus bring up more * which are just as important
if we are going to solve this problem.

And the caps were to answer to all your graphs and stats
that didn't how much money was wasted on failed
prisons and mental health systems which could pay for health care...

So you want to use public funding. What is a successful prison?

My standards I would propose may be higher than others envision
because I have seen proof this is possible.

* I'd say that either the wrongdoers must cover costs of their consequences
including restitution to the victims OR THEIR LEGAL Guardians should
if the convicts are mentally or legally incompetent.

* The programs should properly diagnose, manage counsel treat and/or cure
the disorder or issues of the person that caused the criminal behavior and conviction.

* And if these programs are effective, we should see a reduction or elimination of
crime and increase in using those resources to pay for
* medical education and training
* internships and residencies to provide public services in health care and prevention
* facilities used for clinics and services instead of only warehousing people without treating or curing them
================================

For examples of Restorative Justice programs that BREAK the cycle of abuse crime and poverty:
Look up the Justice Fellowship programs that have taken over entire units.
Look up No More Victims, Inc.
Alternatives to Violence Project.
These are just a FEW examples.

MANY programs involving "education" have proven to result in better success rates for inmates integrating back into society as productive citizens and not relapsing.
One teacher with MENSA who taught in prisons did so through community college.
So the money saved by reducing crime rates can translate into creating paid scholarsihps
and jobs in EDUCATION, solving the financial issues with both health care and education.

===============================
But Fenton Lum the programs that I believe will have the
greatest impact in reforming the mental health and criminal justice systems
are the methods of Spiritual Healing that
* diagnose
* treat and/or
* cure
mental and criminal illness, as well as physical disorders and diseases.
I have found 3 viable resources for spiritual healing that can be studied further
using formal medical research and development (one of these nonprofits
already had the Templeton Foundation fund a successful study on Rheumatoid Arthritis
cured in several patients using FREE methods where otherwise this condition
requires costly medications that never cure the problem but keep the person crippled)
freespiritualhealing lists 3 resources I recommend for medical R&D

Because these methods can potentially and permanently CURE
the causes of diseases, ranging from cancer to criminal illness,
the savings in terms of lives, medical resources, and cost to taxpayers
would reform the entire system and cover costs of preventative health care and education.

The "precedent" or legal model I would use to push for reform
is "modeled" after RICO which covers DRUG trafficking: by taxpayers
demanding that the cost of drug and organized crime be PAID BACK
TO TAXPAYERS as reimbursement for our costs, we can start
DEMANDING that the tax resources spent on crime be spent on health care.

WE EXPAND on the RICO laws for restitution,
and demand this be applied to ALL crime and corruption
that costs taxpayers money, including corporate and govt abuses!

So Fenton Lum we may agree again.
If we both protest corporate WASTE and ABUSE'
why not demand reimbursement and restitution.
Demand CREDITS back to the Taxpayers,
assess these wrongs and damages, set up accounts
through the Federal Reserve where we track those credits.
Then use that money (that we've already paid, not new taxes)
to pay for health care reforms, invest in educational loans,
and develop the programs that will eventually pay back and break the cycle of waste and corruption.

No mention of the war machine cannibalizing society.

Concentrated corporate wealth and power bought out the media machine, and the political/economic system. You're asking them to reform themselves and take less out of society.

Ain't gonna happen.

^ YES ^ we agree AGAIN!
I actually got agreement from Peace and Justice and OCCUPY activists
on this idea: of including WAR contracts and illicit WAR spending
in the restitution and reimbursements to taxpayers to pay for health care and social programs.

You can read my past msgs and see that
I have brought this up with fellow Democrats and Greens,
and demanded why haven't the opponents GONE AFTER THESE FUNDS!!!

Exactly Fenton Lum
We agree on this too!

Wonderful, still, concentrated corporate wealth and power bought out the media machine, and the political/economic system. You're asking them to reform themselves and take less out of society.

Ain't gonna happen

 

[emilynghiem]

Not "abandoning" anything Fenton Lum
there are LOTS of issues combined into health care.

I have MORE issues to address that are part of the solution.

So I can still answer to the ones you brought up,
* plus bring up more * which are just as important
if we are going to solve this problem.

And the caps were to answer to all your graphs and stats
that didn't how much money was wasted on failed
prisons and mental health systems which could pay for health care...

So you want to use public funding. What is a successful prison?

My standards I would propose may be higher than others envision
because I have seen proof this is possible.

* I'd say that either the wrongdoers must cover costs of their consequences
including restitution to the victims OR THEIR LEGAL Guardians should
if the convicts are mentally or legally incompetent.

* The programs should properly diagnose, manage counsel treat and/or cure
the disorder or issues of the person that caused the criminal behavior and conviction.

* And if these programs are effective, we should see a reduction or elimination of
crime and increase in using those resources to pay for
* medical education and training
* internships and residencies to provide public services in health care and prevention
* facilities used for clinics and services instead of only warehousing people without treating or curing them
================================

For examples of Restorative Justice programs that BREAK the cycle of abuse crime and poverty:
Look up the Justice Fellowship programs that have taken over entire units.
Look up No More Victims, Inc.
Alternatives to Violence Project.
These are just a FEW examples.

MANY programs involving "education" have proven to result in better success rates for inmates integrating back into society as productive citizens and not relapsing.
One teacher with MENSA who taught in prisons did so through community college.
So the money saved by reducing crime rates can translate into creating paid scholarsihps
and jobs in EDUCATION, solving the financial issues with both health care and education.

===============================
But Fenton Lum the programs that I believe will have the
greatest impact in reforming the mental health and criminal justice systems
are the methods of Spiritual Healing that
* diagnose
* treat and/or
* cure
mental and criminal illness, as well as physical disorders and diseases.
I have found 3 viable resources for spiritual healing that can be studied further
using formal medical research and development (one of these nonprofits
already had the Templeton Foundation fund a successful study on Rheumatoid Arthritis
cured in several patients using FREE methods where otherwise this condition
requires costly medications that never cure the problem but keep the person crippled)
freespiritualhealing lists 3 resources I recommend for medical R&D

Because these methods can potentially and permanently CURE
the causes of diseases, ranging from cancer to criminal illness,
the savings in terms of lives, medical resources, and cost to taxpayers
would reform the entire system and cover costs of preventative health care and education.

The "precedent" or legal model I would use to push for reform
is "modeled" after RICO which covers DRUG trafficking: by taxpayers
demanding that the cost of drug and organized crime be PAID BACK
TO TAXPAYERS as reimbursement for our costs, we can start
DEMANDING that the tax resources spent on crime be spent on health care.

WE EXPAND on the RICO laws for restitution,
and demand this be applied to ALL crime and corruption
that costs taxpayers money, including corporate and govt abuses!

So Fenton Lum we may agree again.
If we both protest corporate WASTE and ABUSE'
why not demand reimbursement and restitution.
Demand CREDITS back to the Taxpayers,
assess these wrongs and damages, set up accounts
through the Federal Reserve where we track those credits.
Then use that money (that we've already paid, not new taxes)
to pay for health care reforms, invest in educational loans,
and develop the programs that will eventually pay back and break the cycle of waste and corruption.

No mention of the war machine cannibalizing society.

Concentrated corporate wealth and power bought out the media machine, and the political/economic system. You're asking them to reform themselves and take less out of society.

Ain't gonna happen.

^ YES ^ we agree AGAIN!
I actually got agreement from Peace and Justice and OCCUPY activists
on this idea: of including WAR contracts and illicit WAR spending
in the restitution and reimbursements to taxpayers to pay for health care and social programs.

You can read my past msgs and see that
I have brought this up with fellow Democrats and Greens,
and demanded why haven't the opponents GONE AFTER THESE FUNDS!!!

Exactly Fenton Lum
We agree on this too!

Wonderful, still, concentrated corporate wealth and power bought out the media machine, and the political/economic system. You're asking them to reform themselves and take less out of society.

Ain't gonna happen

Sure it won't happen if taxpayers don't demand accountability.
If you don't police your credit cards, don't you think thieves are going to keep using it?

But as soon as we say NO we didn't authorize that charge.
Or we switch to an account that doesn't charge fees we don't agree to.
Then we control what we pay for. Fenton Lum

Now on the POSITIVE side of what motivates politicians
* Democrats WANT to abolish and replace the death penalty
and reform prisons and drug policies
* Libertarians also oppose wild spending on drug wars that exceed benefits
* Republicans WANT health care shifted back to states and out of federal hands

so prison and health care reform on state levels
would resolve ALL these issues!

That is where the political will is to change.
So why not work together and make that happen?

 

[Fenton Lum]

So you want to use public funding. What is a successful prison?

My standards I would propose may be higher than others envision
because I have seen proof this is possible.

* I'd say that either the wrongdoers must cover costs of their consequences
including restitution to the victims OR THEIR LEGAL Guardians should
if the convicts are mentally or legally incompetent.

* The programs should properly diagnose, manage counsel treat and/or cure
the disorder or issues of the person that caused the criminal behavior and conviction.

* And if these programs are effective, we should see a reduction or elimination of
crime and increase in using those resources to pay for
* medical education and training
* internships and residencies to provide public services in health care and prevention
* facilities used for clinics and services instead of only warehousing people without treating or curing them
================================

For examples of Restorative Justice programs that BREAK the cycle of abuse crime and poverty:
Look up the Justice Fellowship programs that have taken over entire units.
Look up No More Victims, Inc.
Alternatives to Violence Project.
These are just a FEW examples.

MANY programs involving "education" have proven to result in better success rates for inmates integrating back into society as productive citizens and not relapsing.
One teacher with MENSA who taught in prisons did so through community college.
So the money saved by reducing crime rates can translate into creating paid scholarsihps
and jobs in EDUCATION, solving the financial issues with both health care and education.

===============================
But Fenton Lum the programs that I believe will have the
greatest impact in reforming the mental health and criminal justice systems
are the methods of Spiritual Healing that
* diagnose
* treat and/or
* cure
mental and criminal illness, as well as physical disorders and diseases.
I have found 3 viable resources for spiritual healing that can be studied further
using formal medical research and development (one of these nonprofits
already had the Templeton Foundation fund a successful study on Rheumatoid Arthritis
cured in several patients using FREE methods where otherwise this condition
requires costly medications that never cure the problem but keep the person crippled)
freespiritualhealing lists 3 resources I recommend for medical R&D

Because these methods can potentially and permanently CURE
the causes of diseases, ranging from cancer to criminal illness,
the savings in terms of lives, medical resources, and cost to taxpayers
would reform the entire system and cover costs of preventative health care and education.

The "precedent" or legal model I would use to push for reform
is "modeled" after RICO which covers DRUG trafficking: by taxpayers
demanding that the cost of drug and organized crime be PAID BACK
TO TAXPAYERS as reimbursement for our costs, we can start
DEMANDING that the tax resources spent on crime be spent on health care.

WE EXPAND on the RICO laws for restitution,
and demand this be applied to ALL crime and corruption
that costs taxpayers money, including corporate and govt abuses!

So Fenton Lum we may agree again.
If we both protest corporate WASTE and ABUSE'
why not demand reimbursement and restitution.
Demand CREDITS back to the Taxpayers,
assess these wrongs and damages, set up accounts
through the Federal Reserve where we track those credits.
Then use that money (that we've already paid, not new taxes)
to pay for health care reforms, invest in educational loans,
and develop the programs that will eventually pay back and break the cycle of waste and corruption.

No mention of the war machine cannibalizing society.

Concentrated corporate wealth and power bought out the media machine, and the political/economic system. You're asking them to reform themselves and take less out of society.

Ain't gonna happen.

^ YES ^ we agree AGAIN!
I actually got agreement from Peace and Justice and OCCUPY activists
on this idea: of including WAR contracts and illicit WAR spending
in the restitution and reimbursements to taxpayers to pay for health care and social programs.

You can read my past msgs and see that
I have brought this up with fellow Democrats and Greens,
and demanded why haven't the opponents GONE AFTER THESE FUNDS!!!

Exactly Fenton Lum
We agree on this too!

Wonderful, still, concentrated corporate wealth and power bought out the media machine, and the political/economic system. You're asking them to reform themselves and take less out of society.

Ain't gonna happen

Sure it won't happen if taxpayers don't demand accountability.
If you don't police your credit cards, don't you think thieves are going to keep using it?

But as soon as we say NO we didn't authorize that charge.
Or we switch to an account that doesn't charge fees we don't agree to.
Then we control what we pay for. Fenton Lum

Oh, so you don't want the change the system at all, you want individuals to deny charges. Teriffic, and our two party system will resolve it.

 

[Dalia]

In France a medical opération of a cost of $ 4,000 is fully refunded but you Americans you must fully pay for an medicale operation?
And Obamacare is a cover for the poorest only?

You would do much better arriving at a real understanding of this by researching on your own, and going back to look at the trendline in spending going back to the 1900s, or at least the 1960s. In america, healthcare is political and the status quo would lose economically were we to join the advanced modern world in a single payer system. As such, healthcare in the US has never been about what works best for society, but rather what lines the pockets of the private corporate health insurance and pharma industries.

Here in France the health cover ( healht insurance) is espensive every month, we have to have a other insurance than the SQ is the gouvernement coverage

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/m...ef/2015/oct/squires_oecd_exhibit_12.png?la=en

Per Capita Healthcare Costs — International Comparison

All of the 10 countries on the list spend at least 8.9% of their total GDP on health care. The difference, however, between the No. 1 spender, the United States, and the No. 10 spender, Canada, is quite large. Canada spent 10.2% of its GDP on health care in 2013, which amounted to $4,351 per person, while the United States spent 16.4% of its GDP that year, amounting to $8,713 per person.

According to Francesca Colombo, head of the health division at the OECD, “Higher health sector prices explain much of the difference between the U.S. and other high-spending countries.” She added that the health care system in the United States is also fragmented and overly complex, with a larger share of uninsured individuals than is common among developed countries. While every country on the list has near universal health care coverage, only 88.5% of Americans are insured. However, under the Affordable Care Act, the U.S. uninsured rate is on the decline.
Countries Spending the Most on Health Care

View attachment 118775
Subscribe to read

Health Care Spending as a Percentage of GDP, 1980–2013

Thank for all the graphic explanation : ObamaCare's cost is currently estimated at $ 1,207 trillion dollars by 2025. This includes the cost of ObamaCare's major insurance-related provisions but does not take into account all of the cost-curbing measures in the law..

Cost of ObamaCare

 

[Fenton Lum]

New York, N.Y., October 8, 2015 — The U.S. spent more per person on health care than 12 other high-income nations in 2013, while seeing the lowest life expectancy and some of the worst health outcomes among this group, according to a Commonwealth Fund report out today. The analysis shows that in the U.S., which spent an average of $9,086 per person annually, life expectancy was 78.8 years. Switzerland, the second-highest-spending country, spent $6,325 per person and had a life expectancy of 82.9 years. Mortality rates for cancer were among the lowest in the U.S., but rates of chronic conditions, obesity, and infant mortality were higher than those abroad.

“Time and again, we see evidence that the amount of money we spend on health care in this country is not gaining us comparable health benefits,” said Commonwealth Fund President David Blumenthal, M.D. “We have to look at the root causes of this disconnect and invest our health care dollars in ways that will allow us to live longer while enjoying better health and greater productivity.”

U.S. Spends More on Health Care Than Other High-Income Nations But Has Lower Life Expectancy, Worse Health


U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries

U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries


Major Findings
· Quality: The indicators of quality were grouped into four categories: effective care, safe care, coordinated care, and patient-centered care. Compared with the other 10 countries, the U.S. fares best on provision and receipt of preventive and patient-centered care. While there has been some improvement in recent years, lower scores on safe and coordinated care pull the overall U.S. quality score down. Continued adoption of health information technology should enhance the ability of U.S. physicians to identify, monitor, and coordinate care for their patients, particularly those with chronic conditions.

· Access: Not surprisingly—given the absence of universal coverage—people in the U.S. go without needed health care because of cost more often than people do in the other countries. Americans were the most likely to say they had access problems related to cost. Patients in the U.S. have rapid access to specialized health care services; however, they are less likely to report rapid access to primary care than people in leading countries in the study. In other countries, like Canada, patients have little to no financial burden, but experience wait times for such specialized services. There is a frequent misperception that trade-offs between universal coverage and timely access to specialized services are inevitable; however, the Netherlands, U.K., and Germany provide universal coverage with low out-of-pocket costs while maintaining quick access to specialty services.

· Efficiency: On indicators of efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries, with the U.K. and Sweden ranking first and second, respectively. The U.S. has poor performance on measures of national health expenditures and administrative costs as well as on measures of administrative hassles, avoidable emergency room use, and duplicative medical testing. Sicker survey respondents in the U.K. and France are less likely to visit the emergency room for a condition that could have been treated by a regular doctor, had one been available.

· Equity: The U.S. ranks a clear last on measures of equity. Americans with below-average incomes were much more likely than their counterparts in other countries to report not visiting a physician when sick; not getting a recommended test, treatment, or follow-up care; or not filling a prescription or skipping doses when needed because of costs. On each of these indicators, one-third or more lower-income adults in the U.S. said they went without needed care because of costs in the past year.

· Healthy lives: The U.S. ranks last overall with poor scores on all three indicators of healthy lives—mortality amenable to medical care, infant mortality, and healthy life expectancy at age 60. The U.S. and U.K. had much higher death rates in 2007 from conditions amenable to medical care than some of the other countries, e.g., rates 25 percent to 50 percent higher than Australia and Sweden. Overall, France, Sweden, and Switzerland rank highest on healthy lives.

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally


No other advanced country even comes close to the United States in annual spending on health care, but plenty of those other countries see much better outcomes in their citizens' actual health overall.

A new Commonwealth Fund report released Thursday underscored that point — yet again — with an analysis that ranks 13 high-income nations on their overall health spending, use of medical services, prices and health outcomes.

The study data, which is from 2013, predates the full implementation of Obamacare, which took place in 2014. Obamacare is designed to increase health coverage for Americans and stem the rise in health-care costs.

The findings indicate that despite spending well in excess of the rate of any other of those countries in 2013, the United States achieved worse outcomes when it comes to rates of chronic conditions, obesity and infant mortality.

One rare bright spot for the U.S., however, is that its mortality rate for cancer is among the lowest out of the 13 countries, and that cancer rates fell faster between 1995 and 2007 than in other countries.

"Time and again, we see evidence that the amount of money we spend on health care in this country is not gaining us comparable health benefits," said Dr. David Blumenthal, president of the Commonwealth Fund. "We have to look at the root causes of this disconnect and invest our health-care dollars in ways that will allow us to live longer while enjoying better health and greater productivity."

US health care: Spending a lot, getting the least


Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System
MMS: Error


Health Care Outcomes in States Influenced by Coverage, Disparities
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...-in-states-influenced-by-coverage-disparities


One explanation for the health disadvantage of the United States relative to other high-income countries might be deficiencies in health services. Although the United States is renowned for its leadership in biomedical research, its cutting-edge medical technology, and its hospitals and specialists, problems with ensuring Americans’ access to the system and providing quality care have been a long-standing concern of policy makers and the public (Berwick et al., 2008; Brook, 2011b; Fineberg, 2012). Higher mortality rates from diseases, and even from transportation-related injuries and homicides, may be traceable in part to failings in the health care system.

The United States stands out from many other countries in not offering universal health insurance coverage. In 2010, 50 million people (16 percent of the U.S. population) were uninsured (DeNavas-Walt et al., 2011). Access to health care services, particularly in rural and frontier communities or disadvantaged urban centers, is often limited. The United States has a relatively weak foundation for primary care and a shortage of family physicians (American Academy of Family Physicians, 2009; Grumbach et al., 2009; Macinko et al., 2007; Sandy et al., 2009). Many Americans rely on emergency departments for acute, chronic, and even preventive care (Institute of Medicine, 2007a; Schoen et al., 2009b, 2011). Cost sharing is common in the United States, and high out-of-pocket expenses make health care services, pharmaceuticals, and medical supplies increasingly unaffordable (Commonwealth Fund Commission on a High Performance System, 2011; Karaca-Mandic et al., 2012). In 2011, one-third of American households reported problems paying medical bills (Cohen et al., 2012), a problem that seems to have worsened in recent years (Himmelstein et al., 2009). Health insurance premiums are consuming an increasing proportion of U.S. household income (Commonwealth Fund Commission on a High Performance System, 2011).

Public Health and Medical Care Systems - U.S. Health in International Perspective - NCBI Bookshelf


Once again, U.S. has most expensive, least effective health care system in survey

A report released Monday by a respected think tank ranks the United States dead last in the quality of its health-care system when compared with 10 other western, industrialized nations, the same spot it occupied in four previous studies by the same organization. Not only did the U.S. fail to move up between 2004 and 2014 -- as other nations did with concerted effort and significant reforms -- it also has maintained this dubious distinction while spending far more per capita ($8,508) on health care than Norway ($5,669), which has the second most expensive system.

"Although the U.S. spends more on health care than any other country and has the highest proportion of specialist physicians, survey findings indicate that from the patients’ perspective, and based on outcome indicators, the performance of American health care is severely lacking," the Commonwealth Fund, a New York-based foundation that promotes improved health care, concluded in its extensive analysis. The charts in this post are from the report.

Once again, U.S. has most expensive, least effective health care system in survey


US healthcare system ranks 50th out of 55 countries for efficiency
http://www.beckershospitalreview.co...-50th-out-of-55-countries-for-efficiency.html


he U.S. healthcare system notched another dubious honor in a new comparison of its quality to the systems of 10 other developed countries: its rank was dead last.

The new study by the Commonwealth Fund ranks the U.S. against seven wealthy European countries and Canada, Australia and New Zealand. It's a follow-up of previous surveys published in 2010, 2007, 2006 and 2004, in all of which the U.S. also ranked last.

Although the U.S. ranked in the middle of the pack on measures of effectiveness, safety and coordination of care, it ranked dead last on access and cost, by a sufficient margin to rank dead last overall. The breakdowns are in the chart above.

Conservative pundits hastened to explain away these results after the report was published. See Aaron Carroll for a gloss on the "zombie arguments" put forth against the clear evidence that the U.S. system falls short.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-the-us-healthcare-system-20140617-column.html

U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World
http://time.com/2888403/u-s-health-care-ranked-worst-in-the-developed-world/

 

[dblack]

ACA is a corporatist scam. It's a bailout for the insurance industry.

 

[Andylusion]

ACA is a corporatist scam. It's a bailout for the insurance industry.

First it is impossible for it to be a bailout, because they were not in any trouble.

Basically the only reason people claim that it is some corporatist scam, is because companies profit from it.

Which is a ridiculous position to hold. If they didn't profit, then they wouldn't participate. If they didn't participate then the entire system would implode, and 1/6th of the entire economy would be wiped out, causing the biggest depression in US history.

The whole basis for complaining that it is corporatist, is bonkers and ignorant.

 

[Fenton Lum]

ACA is a corporatist scam. It's a bailout for the insurance industry.

Sure it was, and every other "answer" the system comes up with will be the same in purpose, "the people" simply do not matter, never did. Ours is an authoritarian system based upon a colonial wealth extraction model. Same as it ever was.

 

[1pissedoffcitizen]

My problem with Obama are is this, why should i be forced to pay for insurance, or penalized for not having it, when I never use it? I have a lot better things to do with my money.

 

[JakeStarkey]

My problem with Obama are is this, why should i be forced to pay for insurance, or penalized for not having it, when I never use it? I have a lot better things to do with my money.

Because one day you need it and it will be cheaper for society and you.