Obama Declares Victory And Leaves In Defeat

[Cuyo]

Wow, so many mistatements in that paragraph, I don't know where to begin.

The war was hardly "unprovoked". Saddam was a monster and he got what was coming to him, and his people were glad to be rid of him. He caused the deaths of over 2 million people. You like to forget about that, for some reason, and treat him like he was a clubbed baby seal.

Ghadaffy wasn't a problem for us, and all Obama did was tie us into something that wasn't our problem.

I give Obama credit for the fact the death of Bin Laden happened on his watch, although it would not have happened without the intelligence and military efforts made by his predecessor in developing the kind of forces to pull off that kind of mission.

So is that our policy now, we go to places where mass murder is taking place and stop it, indifferent of our own national interests?

No. Not at all. We go in where we decide we need to after a national debate. We had one on Iraq. The Democrats agreed that Saddam had to be stopped in both 1990 and 2002.

Agreed with the following disclaimer: The parties only 'Agreed' to the extent that they agreed he was not behaving beneficially to our interests; Not that he posed any sort of threat to us (laughable really); Although that was the fodder used to get the American rabble behind the effort.

Personally, I think we need to focus more inward, stop looking for fights.

I don't know of anyone who would publicly disagree with that, but again, protecting our lifestyle sometimes means carrying out military actions under nefarious pretenses.

I also think we should go back to assassinating leaders who piss us off, instead of fighting wars to get rid of them. Why kill thousands if one guy is the problem? Not sure of a clean mechanism for making that happen, though.

Foreign policy is not my forte necessarily, but I hope and trust the people making the decisions (I call them BOGSATs if you're familiar with the term) know what they're doing. Obviously sometimes (eg Iraq) things go horribly wrong and you wind up in a worse position then you started in.

Was it ultimately beneficial to engage in Iraq? I'd be lying if I said I knew the answer to that with any certainty (As would anyone). It was awfully expensive in both dollars and lives.

 

[Ravi]

 

[mudwhistle]

yeah two months...WOW...look out

Yes that 16 months was impressive. Two months you say WOW!!

Bushes agreement had us leaving by Dec 2011..its oct 2011.two months.

Bush said it was contingent on recommendations from the commanders.

Obama is pulling up stakes.

Bush had no intention of doing that.

 

[kiwiman127]

Actually, we have some truism and some fantasies throughout this thread.

Obama politicized the final withdrawal of the last troops from Iraq. When in fact, the Obama Administration was negotiating with the Iraqi government to extend the troop presence in Iraq. Even far right conservatives acknowledge these facts.

Michelle Malkin » Obama: All troops out of Iraq by end of year

U.S. Troops Are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There - Yochi J. Dreazen - Politics - The Atlantic


Those who ignore the facts just so they can take a shot at Obama are really stretching things here. And people not noticing Obama's politicizing the final troop withdrawal as though he was keeping his campaign promise, when in fact he tried and failed to keep our troops in Iraq longer are also stretching reality.

 

[Full-Auto]

Let me get this straight: Bush/Cheney started an unprovoked war with Iraq that has resulted in the deaths of over 4500 US service members and probably tens-of-thousands (probably more) of innocent Iraqi civilians, and caused Iraq to be over-run with AQ terrorists (none of which existed before in Iraq). After 8 years of that mess, Obama decides it's time to bring the troops home; but only after he ordered the mission that took down Bin Laden and got the US involved in the NATO mission that lead to the downfall of Ghadaffi. And you want me to believe that not only is this a defeat for Obama, but that he's also an incompetent CIC?



Hitting the bottle a little early today, or are you just filled with so much hatred for Obama and jealousy of his accomplishments that you're incapable of coming up with a sane argument against him?

His accomplishments?

Palease.

Yes, his accomplishments. What else would you call his numerous legislative victories, the death of Bin Laden and numerous AQ leaders, the downfall of Ghadaffi and the end to the war in Iraq?

Like this one?

Did you want to go into the stimulus?

 

[francoHFW]

Repeating Fox anti-NHC propaganda means nothing. Those promises haven't gone anywhere, Foxbot.

 

[rightwinger]

Yer partisanship is showing.

Partisanship?

On this thread? Hardly

Well, it does move beyond this thread.

Obama got the job done where Bush couldn't. The underestimation of the requirements to complete the Iraq mission are only overshadowed by the blunder of attacking in the first place

No, there was no threat of a Mushroom cloud and no, we were not treated as liberators

I'm pretty sure the job was done by the troops, not the president. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, just like the decision to invade was done by the troops.......OOops......that decision was made by Bush. So was the decision to ignore the advice of his commanders and not put sufficient troops on the ground

The result was an unnecessary invasion, eight year occupation and 4000 dead US soldiers not to mention an estimated 100,000 dead Iraqis.

All to satisfy Bushs vendetta against Iraq

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know............it's about time we got the fuck out of Iraq, which is some place we had no business getting into in the first place.

And.......OBL is at the bottom of the ocean.

 

[Sunshine]

Wow. I didn't realize his teeth were so yellow. Hasn't he heard of Crest White Strips?

 

[mudwhistle]

Bushes agreement had us leaving by Dec 2011..its oct 2011.two months.

Bush said it was contingent on recommendations from the commanders.

Obama is pulling up stakes.

Bush had no intention of doing that.

i commend you for going down with the ship....its your life

Going down with the ship??

You should talk.

You think you can bullshit your way through life....which explains why you support a Bull Shit artist like Obama.

Obama doesn't know what he's doing and figures he can use spin to work his way through yet another foreign policy blunder.

Guess the next President will have to clean up his mess after he's gone.

 

[mudwhistle]

i commend you for going down with the ship....its your life

Going down with the ship??

You should talk.

You think you can bullshit your way through life....which explains why you support a Bull Shit artist like Obama.

Obama doesn't know what he's doing and figures he can use spin to work his way through yet another foreign policy blunder.

Guess the next President will have to clean up his mess after he's gone.

what?

I know you're unable to think unless the press tells you what to think....but this is a major screw-up.

It would have been different if we hadn't failed in the negotiations with Iraqi officials...but since Obama's state department screwed the pooch on that one it means we can't guarantee the safety of our officials in Iraq. Any that we leave behind are on their own.

 

[mudwhistle]

what?

I know you're unable to think unless the press tells you what to think....but this is a major screw-up.

It would have been different if we hadn't failed in the negotiations with Iraqi officials...but since Obama's state department screwed the pooch on that one it means we can't guarantee the safety of our officials in Iraq. Any that we leave behind are on their own.

what part of we were scheduled to leave regardless of who was in office now do you not understand?

Are you stupid or something? ( rhetorical)

You are literally ignoring reality so it looks like you have a point. Your chair at the adult table has been revoked.

Obama even said on his web-site before he was elected that he understood 50,000 troops would remain for at least 10 years.

Did you ever consider why he would say that?

Because Iraq has strategic value in the war on terror. Now we've lost it because Obama pissed off the Iraqis. Now we have to leave. Once we leave, Iran doesn't have to worry about a Democracy peeking over it's shoulder. Iran doesn't have to worry about about Predator drones or attacks from our aircraft if they step out of line.

Thanks to Obama one of the major reasons we were in Iraq is trashed.

 

[kiwiman127]

I know you're unable to think unless the press tells you what to think....but this is a major screw-up.

It would have been different if we hadn't failed in the negotiations with Iraqi officials...but since Obama's state department screwed the pooch on that one it means we can't guarantee the safety of our officials in Iraq. Any that we leave behind are on their own.

what part of we were scheduled to leave regardless of who was in office now do you not understand?

Are you stupid or something? ( rhetorical)

You are literally ignoring reality so it looks like you have a point. Your chair at the adult table has been revoked.

Obama even said on his web-site before he was elected that he understood 50,000 troops would remain for at least 10 years.

Did you ever consider why he would say that?

Because Iraq has strategic value in the war on terror. Now we've lost it because Obama pissed off the Iraqis. Now we have to leave. Once we leave, Iran doesn't have to worry about a Democracy peeking over it's shoulder. Iran doesn't have to worry about about Predator drones or attacks from our aircraft if they step out of line.

Thanks to Obama one of the major reasons we were in Iraq is trashed.

Mudwhistle, I happen to think that you are on a bash-Obama-mission without dealing with the facts.

Iraq Demands 'Clear Timeline' for U.S. Troop Withdrawal

Read more: Iraq Demands 'Clear Timeline' for U.S. Troop Withdrawal - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

And GWB granted their wish and signed an agreement to be out by December 31, 2011 which also coincides with the date of the UN Mandate.

Obama tried to get an extension on the timeline but Iraq was serious when they signed the agreement with the US and they are still serious. Iraq obviously have thought for quite awhile, that they wanted to control their own independence and destiny.
The US liberated them, we helped set up their democratic elections and now we shouldn't honor a democratic sovereign country's wish that we leave? And it's Obama's fault? Try something else that deals with the real world.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Going down with the ship??

You should talk.

You think you can bullshit your way through life....which explains why you support a Bull Shit artist like Obama.

Obama doesn't know what he's doing and figures he can use spin to work his way through yet another foreign policy blunder.

Guess the next President will have to clean up his mess after he's gone.

what?

I know you're unable to think unless the press tells you what to think....but this is a major screw-up.

It would have been different if we hadn't failed in the negotiations with Iraqi officials...but since Obama's state department screwed the pooch on that one it means we can't guarantee the safety of our officials in Iraq. Any that we leave behind are on their own.

Actually, Obama wanted to keep around 3,000 troops in Iraq as trainers, but the Iraqi government told him that the troops would have to fall under the laws of Iraq and would not be given diplomatic immunity.

The contractors that we currently have over there (who will stay) are civilian workers authorized by the embassy who already have it.

Besides, Jr. said that we would be out by then, Obama is just making sure it happens.

 

[mudwhistle]

what part of we were scheduled to leave regardless of who was in office now do you not understand?

Are you stupid or something? ( rhetorical)

You are literally ignoring reality so it looks like you have a point. Your chair at the adult table has been revoked.

Obama even said on his web-site before he was elected that he understood 50,000 troops would remain for at least 10 years.

Did you ever consider why he would say that?

Because Iraq has strategic value in the war on terror. Now we've lost it because Obama pissed off the Iraqis. Now we have to leave. Once we leave, Iran doesn't have to worry about a Democracy peeking over it's shoulder. Iran doesn't have to worry about about Predator drones or attacks from our aircraft if they step out of line.

Thanks to Obama one of the major reasons we were in Iraq is trashed.

Do you even understand what you are saying? He understood. That means there was a plan already in place you dumb fuck.

No the Iraqis wanted us out before Obama was even elected. We dont need any bases their. I see now, you are a neo-con who feels we need to have bases everyplace around the world.

Yeah you are a dumbfuck and part of the problem.

The Iraqis could have told us to get out when we turned control over to them during the Bush Administration.

Here it is almost 3 years into Obama's presidency and we've worn out our welcome.

All you have to do is look at a map and you'll see what I've been talking about.

Here's one of Obama's spokespersons talking about the withdrawal.

GWEN IFILL: They are still trying to make sense of it, trying to make it -- sort it out. How do we know that we can afford to pull back, as the president had promised?

BRIAN KATULIS Center For American Progress: Well, look, I think we can afford to because U.S. troops for the last year in essence have not been on Iraqi streets.

One of the biggest marker points -- and Michael wrote about this last summer -- was when we withdrew from populated areas. And much of our drawdown has already been implemented. And as Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of Joint Chiefs staff said last week, he said, he is pleased with the progress there.

They are a proud nation. They actually want to take control of their country. They have substantial political differences in forming a government, but we shouldn't stand in the way in the efforts of Iraqis to take control of their own affairs.

GWEN IFILL: So, he's arguing that it doesn't matter whether everything is fixed completely. It's time to go because the Iraqis want the U.S. to go.

MICHAEL RUBIN:Well, the Iraqis certainly do want the U.S. to go, and that is why they agreed to a deadline of December 31, 2011. The August 31, 2010, deadline was President Obama's campaign rhetoric back when he was a senator.

GWEN IFILL: But there will still be 50,000 troops there.

MICHAEL RUBIN: There will still be 50,000 troops there. But influence is proportional to the number of troops we have on the ground.

Now, what President Obama is also doing is a bit of smoke and mirrors, because, when he says these aren't combat troops -- they are going to be involved in training, they are going to be involved in protecting our diplomatic forces and so forth -- this is what our troops have been doing for the last year regardless. We can call them what they want, but one of the lessons learned from early on in Operation Iraqi Freedom is that every troop has to be combat-ready. And that's not going to change.

Now even the support troops that weren't supposed to be gone by the Dec 2011 deadline wlll be leaving too.....because Obama pissed of the Iraqis so much that they want to take revenge on Americans. They won't guarantee their safety anymore.

So this is victory to a liberal???

Yup.....get the fuck out of town before they murder us. Claim victory now and leave.

We let the Iraqis run us out and we meekly leave with our tails between our legs.

 

[The T]

Obama even said on his web-site before he was elected that he understood 50,000 troops would remain for at least 10 years.

Did you ever consider why he would say that?

Because Iraq has strategic value in the war on terror. Now we've lost it because Obama pissed off the Iraqis. Now we have to leave. Once we leave, Iran doesn't have to worry about a Democracy peeking over it's shoulder. Iran doesn't have to worry about about Predator drones or attacks from our aircraft if they step out of line.

Thanks to Obama one of the major reasons we were in Iraq is trashed.

Do you even understand what you are saying? He understood. That means there was a plan already in place you dumb fuck.

No the Iraqis wanted us out before Obama was even elected. We dont need any bases their. I see now, you are a neo-con who feels we need to have bases everyplace around the world.

Yeah you are a dumbfuck and part of the problem.

The Iraqis could have told us to get out when we turned control over to them during the Bush Administration.

Here it is almost 3 years into Obama's presidency and we've worn out our welcome.

All you have to do is look at a map and you'll see what I've been talking about.

Here's one of Obama's spokespersons talking about the withdrawal.

GWEN IFILL: They are still trying to make sense of it, trying to make it -- sort it out. How do we know that we can afford to pull back, as the president had promised?

BRIAN KATULIS Center For American Progress: Well, look, I think we can afford to because U.S. troops for the last year in essence have not been on Iraqi streets.

One of the biggest marker points -- and Michael wrote about this last summer -- was when we withdrew from populated areas. And much of our drawdown has already been implemented. And as Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of Joint Chiefs staff said last week, he said, he is pleased with the progress there.

They are a proud nation. They actually want to take control of their country. They have substantial political differences in forming a government, but we shouldn't stand in the way in the efforts of Iraqis to take control of their own affairs.

GWEN IFILL: So, he's arguing that it doesn't matter whether everything is fixed completely. It's time to go because the Iraqis want the U.S. to go.

MICHAEL RUBIN:Well, the Iraqis certainly do want the U.S. to go, and that is why they agreed to a deadline of December 31, 2011. The August 31, 2010, deadline was President Obama's campaign rhetoric back when he was a senator.

GWEN IFILL: But there will still be 50,000 troops there.

MICHAEL RUBIN: There will still be 50,000 troops there. But influence is proportional to the number of troops we have on the ground.

Now, what President Obama is also doing is a bit of smoke and mirrors, because, when he says these aren't combat troops -- they are going to be involved in training, they are going to be involved in protecting our diplomatic forces and so forth -- this is what our troops have been doing for the last year regardless. We can call them what they want, but one of the lessons learned from early on in Operation Iraqi Freedom is that every troop has to be combat-ready. And that's not going to change.

Now even the support troops that weren't supposed to be gone by the Dec 2011 deadline wlll be leaving too.....because Obama pissed of the Iraqis so much that they want to take revenge on Americans. They won't guarantee their safety anymore.

So this is victory to a liberal???

Yup.....get the fuck out of town before they murder us. Claim victory now and leave.

Another policy fuckup feather Obama can stick in his warbonnet.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know......I didn't hear anything about "victory" coming from Obama. He just said the mission is over, and we need to bring our troops home.

The only idiot screaming anything close to victory was Jr. with his "mission accomplished" when it really wasn't.

 

[paulitician]

Nothing more to be gained in Iraq. Have we even gotten any cheap oil from them yet? That's about the only benefit an American Citizen could hope for out of that shyte-hole. The same is true of Libya.

 

[freedombecki]

Obama said yesterday that he's pulling everyone out of Iraq.

Good. I fully support that decision. I don't agree with the timing. It should have been done 2 years ago, but that's beside the point. I'm tired of waiting for this President to decide when would be the right time to declare victory and leave the region to it's own demise.

In my opinion Obama has no business being Commander in Chief. It doesn't matter how many bad guys he claims he assassinated. He cannot win a war. He can only make it look like he's winning before withdrawing with what little honor he has left.

I figured he'd wait till next Spring but he's trying to win re-election now, not actually do the right thing.

Obama feels the time is right. 2 years ago wasn't the right time. He put off this decision for more dramatic effect. People actually think Obama is a great wartime President now and he fully intends on taking advantage of that.

In truth Obama has been a disaster in Iraq. He couldn't even negotiate immunity for our troops against Iraqi prosecution. Our troops could be snatched off of the side of the road or in a restaurant and charged with murder or mayhem pretty much at the whims of the host country. This is why we're leaving, not because the mission is over.

He says now is the time to get back to the business of fixing the economy.

Excuse me, but wasn't that your number one goal this Summer????

Oh, yeah, right. Now is the right time.

His only hope is that once we leave the folks he leaves behind don't come under attack by peaceful protesters in a manner reminiscent of the Iranian Hostage situation.

Cross your fingers Barry.

Yep. Obama has managed a defeat to be snatched from the jaws of an American victory.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Obama said yesterday that he's pulling everyone out of Iraq.

Good. I fully support that decision. I don't agree with the timing. It should have been done 2 years ago, but that's beside the point. I'm tired of waiting for this President to decide when would be the right time to declare victory and leave the region to it's own demise.

In my opinion Obama has no business being Commander in Chief. It doesn't matter how many bad guys he claims he assassinated. He cannot win a war. He can only make it look like he's winning before withdrawing with what little honor he has left.

I figured he'd wait till next Spring but he's trying to win re-election now, not actually do the right thing.

Obama feels the time is right. 2 years ago wasn't the right time. He put off this decision for more dramatic effect. People actually think Obama is a great wartime President now and he fully intends on taking advantage of that.

In truth Obama has been a disaster in Iraq. He couldn't even negotiate immunity for our troops against Iraqi prosecution. Our troops could be snatched off of the side of the road or in a restaurant and charged with murder or mayhem pretty much at the whims of the host country. This is why we're leaving, not because the mission is over.

He says now is the time to get back to the business of fixing the economy.

Excuse me, but wasn't that your number one goal this Summer????

Oh, yeah, right. Now is the right time.

His only hope is that once we leave the folks he leaves behind don't come under attack by peaceful protesters in a manner reminiscent of the Iranian Hostage situation.

Cross your fingers Barry.

Yep. Obama has managed a defeat to be snatched from the jaws of an American victory.

How is Iraq a "victory"?