Obama Declares Victory And Leaves In Defeat

Discussion in 'Politics' started by mudwhistle, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. mudwhistle
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    mudwhistle Diamond Member

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    Obama said yesterday that he's pulling everyone out of Iraq.

    Good. I fully support that decision. I don't agree with the timing. It should have been done 2 years ago, but that's beside the point. I'm tired of waiting for this President to decide when would be the right time to declare victory and leave the region to it's own demise.

    In my opinion Obama has no business being Commander in Chief. It doesn't matter how many bad guys he claims he assassinated. He cannot win a war. He can only make it look like he's winning before withdrawing with what little honor he has left.

    I figured he'd wait till next Spring but he's trying to win re-election now, not actually do the right thing.

    Obama feels the time is right. 2 years ago wasn't the right time. He put off this decision for more dramatic effect. People actually think Obama is a great wartime President now and he fully intends on taking advantage of that.

    In truth Obama has been a disaster in Iraq. He couldn't even negotiate immunity for our troops against Iraqi prosecution. Our troops could be snatched off of the side of the road or in a restaurant and charged with murder or mayhem pretty much at the whims of the host country. This is why we're leaving, not because the mission is over.

    He says now is the time to get back to the business of fixing the economy.

    Excuse me, but wasn't that your number one goal this Summer????

    Oh, yeah, right. Now is the right time.

    His only hope is that once we leave the folks he leaves behind don't come under attack by peaceful protesters in a manner reminiscent of the Iranian Hostage situation.

    Cross your fingers Barry.


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  2. ladyliberal
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    ladyliberal Progressive Princess

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    Given that the US successfully overthrew Hussein, I don't think it is fair to say we were "defeated". It might be fair to say that we "failed". Certainly, we failed to halt a major WMD program.

    But even if we concede that the overall intervention was in Iraq, I'm not sure how one could argue that Obama's command was a failure. I'm not sure if any of Obama's stated goals in Iraq weren't met-- the main one was to withdraw the troops, preferably sooner than this. If you look at Politifact's count on Obama's campaign promises, it lists only one goal for Iraq, which has been kept: PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Military. Obama might have failed to do what you wanted to do, but he seems to have been able to largely do what he said he would (admittedly a low bar, he made many more promises about Afghanistan).

    Part of the reason we are leaving now does seem to be because of the Iraqi government. When we voluntarily returned sovereignty to them in 2004 (it's been awhile, hasn't it?) we implicitly gave them the right to refuse privileges to our troops or even to order them to leave the country. That seven years later they are exercising this right, when US policy was already to withdraw troops on a similar timeline, can hardly be called a defeat.
     
  3. JoeB131
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    JoeB131 Diamond Member

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    Can't see a big problem here.

    We want to get out.

    The Iraqis want us to leave.

    Frankly, I'd prefer that to something like Korea, where we are keeping a whole division on standby to defend the third richest country in Asia from the poorest country in Asia from a war that ended 60 years ago.

    On a larger note, perhaps it is time for us to stop trying to be the world's policeman. We have troops in over 100 countries, and we are broke! The world doesn't seem to appreciate our efforts all that much. You get the lazy socialist states of Europe who spend less than 1% of GDP defending their own countries while we spend 6% of GDP protecting the whole world.

    At the very least, we should actually charge for the service.
     
  4. mudwhistle
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    mudwhistle Diamond Member

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    It is a diplomatic defeat and a tactical defeat because not only couldn't we assure that our troops would be safe from unfair prosecution by Iranians with scores to settle, but leaving now means that Iran will be able to exert more influence in Iraq, the primary reason we remained in the first place.

    It is a defeat plain and simple.
     
  5. mudwhistle
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    mudwhistle Diamond Member

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    Everything you said spells defeat.
     
  6. BDBoop
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    BDBoop BANNED

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    Are we sharing our dreams now? Don't know that it belongs in the politics folder, but whatever.

    I dreamed that I was upset because nobody told me there was a branch growing out of my eyebrows, and it was quite unruly.
     
  7. AquaAthena
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    AquaAthena INTJ/ INFJ

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    Mudwhistle, you, as a former Green Beret, have been around and, engaged in many battles, and I listen when you speak about the military and political decisions, that involve American so-called leaders. :lol:

    You, and my fave intellectual, Charles Krauthammar, agree on many things involving the decision to pull ALL of our troops from Iraq, and the advantage it gives to Iran. And I give your post 5 stars as well as pos reps coming your way, because I agree with your opinions expressed today.
     
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  8. JoeB131
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    JoeB131 Diamond Member

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    Defeat from whom?

    Why is that our problem to start with?

    I think we should defend our own country. Period. We can do that for a fraction of what we are doing now.

    Instead, we are defending EVERYONE'S countries and picking fights that have nothing to do with us.

    Let's take Korea. Yeah, in 1951, in the scale of a larger conflict between the Sino-Soviet alliance and the western alliance, taking that stand made sense.

    Today. Meh. China is already doing a lot more damage to us by stealing our jobs left and right, and they've given up on the whole Communism thing. Russia's just happy they aren't breaking apart any further than they already have.

    It's just a petty fight between the Koreas they ought to work out themselves. And the fact that we spend billions FEEDING North Korea so it doesn't attack while spending Billions DEFENDING South Korea in case it does. Meanwhile, we are 14 trillion in debt and we have roads falling apart because there isn't enough money to fix them.

    Less chest thumping, more body building. We need to focus within and fix our own problems. And leave the rest of the world to itself.
     
  9. JoeB131
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    JoeB131 Diamond Member

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    Well, we should have thought of that before we toppled Saddam.

    What everyone forgets is that Iraq is an artificial creation of British empire-builders. Give the country to it's Sunni/Hashemite minority to run because we don't really trust the Shi'ite majority.

    Saddam kept the Iranians at bay, and to our disgrace that's why we tolerated his bad behavior up until he invaded Kuwait.

    But once you say that Saddam had to go, and we want real democracy and not just another Sunni thug who will take orders from us, then you are looking at a Shia dominated state that will have closer ties to Iran.

    Another point. Part of this whole strategy is a reflection of where we are at. We could have dominated Iraq completely to our will. We could have send in a million troops (after drafting them) and completely crushed all resistance, and then spent a decade creating a state in our image. Kind of like what we did with Japan and West Germany.

    The problem is, those efforts came with a cost people were willing to pay in the 40's and 50's that they would be unwilling to pay today. - Higher taxes, more government, loss of lives.
     
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  10. mudwhistle
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    mudwhistle Diamond Member

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    On every point you made, which I agree with, this can only be a defeat.

    We're basically trashing the mission and bailing because it's too tough for Barry to handle.

    It serves one purpose....buying votes.
     

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