No More Jail For Marine Who Killed Iraqi

[Larkinn]

I am not an attorney but I think that when someone stops suddenly for no reason, he is contributing to the accident – I think that it would fall under “contributory negligence” and you would both be at fault – him for stopping without reason and you for tailgating. I do not see how failing to render proper aid to a seizure victim results in you being one to blame for his seizure.

Legally there is a difference, but morally I don't see one. I'm not just talking descriptive here, I'm talking normative. People in this country want to punish each other whenever anything goes wrong. A meteor came out of the sky and crushed a car? Lets crucify NASA. Its ridiculous...shit happens sometimes and punishing someone for everything is absurd.

Okay. Perhaps I was a bit too harsh. People who cause injury should own up by paying full restitution to their victims – along with payment for “pain & suffering” and punitive damage.

And thats exactly what usually happens.

The one who caused the injury should then spend be required to spend some time in a therapy program so that he learns what he did wrong and learns how to not do it again.

Err I don't think people need a therapy program to teach them how not to tailgate.

If he commits a similar mistake again, then I would recommend that he spend several years in jail. Some people are just too “accident prone” to allow out in public.

You mean if the mistake causes an accident again, right?

It comes down to where we draw the line. Statistics have shown that those who drink and drive cause more accidents than do those who don’t drink and drive. Therefore we have preventive measure.

Yes...we are punishing someone, not for doing harm, but because they *might* do harm. Doesn't this seem strange to you?

I understand that we can’t protect everyone from making bad choices. Should motorcyclists be required to wear seatbelts? Should drivers be required to have insurance? Should people be required to wear seatbelts? Why do we allow smoking of tobacco but not the smoking of marijuana or the injection of cocaine? It all comes down to where we are going to draw the line.

Yes it does.

 

[mattskramer]

Extenuating factors matter. A lot. Someone who accidentally kills someone is a LOT less culpable than someone who walks up to someone puts a gun to their head and pulls the trigger.

Yes. There is a difference between negligent homicide and first-degree murder. I think that the penalties for each, short of capital punishment, should be lengthened. I’d hate to see such a “bleeding heart liberal society” in which we continue to say to a repeat negligent offender, “That’s okay. It was a mistake. Pay your court costs and go have a nice day”. “Welcome back. That’s okay. It was a mistake. Pay your court costs and go have a nice day”. “Welcome back. That’s okay. It was a mistake. Pay your court costs and go have a nice day”. How many mistakes that result in death would you let him have for tailgating before you keep him off the road?

So when I tailgate someone and nothing happens, well thats ok and I'm off scot free, but if Gunny tailgates someone and they happen to stop, he rear ends and kills them, its what...15 years for him?

Hmmm. Pretty much. I might just give Gunny 14 years though.

The difference between off scot free and fifteen years is an action which you have no control over? Absurd.

In one case you were lucky because the guy in front did not slam on his breaks. In either case, you do have control over the situation. Don’t take chances. Don’t tailgate! Simply drive carefully and don’t tailgate, and you won’t risk jail time.

 

[mattskramer]

Err I don't think people need a therapy program to teach them how not to tailgate.

Let me show you some foolish risky driving on some of the Texas highways that I travel each day and you might change your mind. Look. I have things to do tonight so I can’t keep this up. I guess that what I’m saying in a nutshell is that I think that most accidents are preventable if people just think first and be careful. Also, I think that we should hold people more accountable for the choices that they make – in a sense, force them to be careful – and if they demonstrate that they make too many “mistakes” that cause harm, then lock them up for society’s protection.

 

[Gunny]

Perhaps my comments were over the top and perhaps they were not. I am reconsidering my comments. I do think that people should be held more accountable for the choice that they make than they seem to be held today. There is too much “psychobabble” today that seems to excuse people for behaving wrongly. The “temporary insanity” plea is used way too often to be an honest legitimate defense each time. People should be more responsible for their own responses to emotional events. Theft is kleptomania. Arson is pyromania. People seem to be given sympathy if they simply say “Gee. I didn’t know”. “I didn’t know that if I drink alcohol and drive, I might hit someone”. “I didn’t know that if I signed up for guard duty, I might face a dangerous situation”. I’m sorry but I don’t buy those “cop-outs”. That’s b.s. The bottom line is that people must get to know themselves and their limits. If you think that you can’t take the heat, don’t be a cook. I thought about joining the military years ago. I thought about what I would do in a dangerous life-threatening situation. I learned that I am too self-preserving. I would shoot first and ask questions later. I also don’t like the notion of blindly following someone else’s orders without my asking questions. I also don’t want to take the chance of “accidentally” killing an innocent person. Therefore, I decided that the military is not for me.

Look at my initial post. I am not excusing this Marine from anything. IMO, there is something wrong with his brainhousing group's neuroprocessor. If he just beat the guy's ass I would probably be defending him.

The fact is, he committed murder, and he's getting off with no more than an BCD. That might have screwed him in the `950s, but I don't think it amounts to shit nowadays.

 

[Annie]

Perhaps my comments were over the top and perhaps they were not. I am reconsidering my comments. I do think that people should be held more accountable for the choice that they make than they seem to be held today. There is too much “psychobabble” today that seems to excuse people for behaving wrongly. The “temporary insanity” plea is used way too often to be an honest legitimate defense each time. People should be more responsible for their own responses to emotional events. Theft is kleptomania. Arson is pyromania. People seem to be given sympathy if they simply say “Gee. I didn’t know”. “I didn’t know that if I drink alcohol and drive, I might hit someone”. “I didn’t know that if I signed up for guard duty, I might face a dangerous situation”. I’m sorry but I don’t buy those “cop-outs”. That’s b.s. The bottom line is that people must get to know themselves and their limits. If you think that you can’t take the heat, don’t be a cook. I thought about joining the military years ago. I thought about what I would do in a dangerous life-threatening situation. I learned that I am too self-preserving. I would shoot first and ask questions later. I also don’t like the notion of blindly following someone else’s orders without my asking questions. I also don’t want to take the chance of “accidentally” killing an innocent person. Therefore, I decided that the military is not for me.

This may be the most 'believable' post I've read from you.

 

[Larkinn]

Yes. There is a difference between negligent homicide and first-degree murder. I think that the penalties for each, short of capital punishment, should be lengthened.

Why? They are long enough already. As I said we have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world and our crime rate isn't exactly low. Maybe jailing massive numbers of our population wasn't such a great idea (who woulda thunk?).

I’d hate to see such a “bleeding heart liberal society” in which we continue to say to a repeat negligent offender, “That’s okay. It was a mistake. Pay your court costs and go have a nice day”. “Welcome back. That’s okay. It was a mistake. Pay your court costs and go have a nice day”. “Welcome back. That’s okay. It was a mistake. Pay your court costs and go have a nice day”. How many mistakes that result in death would you let him have for tailgating before you keep him off the road?

Err first off court costs arent exactly insignificant. Nor are medical costs. A judgement for that would probably be quite large. And secondly that just doesn't happen by accident, that is someone being highly negligent. The difference between someone tailgating because they are 2 feet behind someone and tailgating because they are 10 feet behind someone.

Hmmm. Pretty much. I might just give Gunny 14 years though.

Only 14?

In one case you were lucky because the guy in front did not slam on his breaks. In either case, you do have control over the situation. Don’t take chances. Don’t tailgate! Simply drive carefully and don’t tailgate, and you won’t risk jail time.

I am quite uncomfortable with a criminal justice system that decides who to penalize based on luck. If thats the standard, might as well just draw straws and save on court and cop costs.

 

[Larkinn]

Let me show you some foolish risky driving on some of the Texas highways that I travel each day and you might change your mind.

I drive in Manhattan. I'm quite aware of the stupid things people do, but I don't think sending them into therapy will do much.

Look. I have things to do tonight so I can’t keep this up. I guess that what I’m saying in a nutshell is that I think that most accidents are preventable if people just think first and be careful. Also, I think that we should hold people more accountable for the choices that they make – in a sense, force them to be careful – and if they demonstrate that they make too many “mistakes” that cause harm, then lock them up for society’s protection.

The problem is that accidents are rare enough that we are essentially giving people extremely harsh judgements for being basically unlucky.

 

[mattskramer]

The problem is that accidents are rare enough that we are essentially giving people extremely harsh judgements for being basically unlucky.

There is being unlucky and there is being negligent. They are different things. Being unlucky is like playing the roulette wheel. You might bet on Red and the ball lands on Black. That is different from the foolish and negligent behavior of riding too close to someone’s rear bumper. Accidents don’t just appear as if by magic. For the most part, they are the result of foolish choices and bad behavior. Causing a traffic accident is not a stroke of bad luck. It is the result of disobeying traffic laws or not paying attention.