Navy SEALS...is it worth the hype?

[william the wie]

I did my hitch as a squid ET and regular officers hated to be around AEF (Advanced Electronics Field), Nuke or SEAL enlisted personnel because we had to be brighter than the average officer to do our jobs. And don't think USAF does anything different. Jacksonville has one of the highest percentage Spec Op retirement communities in the nation. Although I don't know the percentages I do know that the only USAF spec op retiree I know on a first name basis is an ex-butter bar who put in for demotion to E-5 to get into Spec Ops and retired as a Chief Master Sergeant. Here's the areas of disagreement and agreement of T. Lee and yourself Whitehall:

The US army has neglected (elite) Alpine warfare since it was the Royal American Army and still does.

Army command of JSOC has always been a disaster of misallocation of Spec OP resources in terms of open source mission records.

That ends the agreement. If you want an idea of how Special Operators actually perform research the exposes on Soviet era Spetnaz. Like earlier Soviet era bombers the Spetnaz idea was stolen from UK and US special operations and was based on after action reports from wars like the Philippine insurrection and Boer war. These special units were seen rarely but highly effectively in WWI and more commonly in WWII. What you get from open source materials are the miscommunications and misallocation of those units. Most SEALS serve on submarines or as advisers to the naval forces of other nations, not in the mountains of Afghanistan. The screw up you read about is entirely the result of much higher death and disability rates for Alpine training with the 10th mountain division as opposed to jumping out of airplanes. That is one promotion ticket punch the Army officer corps isn't willing to touch with a fork on the end of a bargepole. The USN has a similar reaction to mine warfare. So don't blame the people caught up in someone else's SNAFU.

 

[whitehall]

SEALS are stuck in an antiquated concept. They are Sailors so the training is geared toward missions related to the Navy. The problem is that the missions are no longer valid. Most Sailors wash out of Seal training because they cannot adjust to constant hypothermic conditions. Some say that tolerance to hypothermia is genetic and other theories suggest that a certain body type is tolerant of severe cold. Some say that constant exposure to hypothermia and lack of sleep can cause permanent mental disorders. Anyway the Seals wash out people with valuable mental and physical skills and keep people who can stand longer imersion in cold water.

Delta washes out lots of people who would be just fine in the water but aren't so good in the frozen mountains, Recon washes out lots of people who aren't particularly regimented in the "Infantry style" of command and that's almost never used on actual missions. What's your point, that it's not fair to the washouts? Life isn't fair. Having a bias in favor of a certain type of mission that suits a plurality of the needs of the force being augmented is perfectly acceptable, as is diversity in missions after the unit is developed.

A SEAL washout who has the only downfall of not being amazingly tolerant to hypothermia can always try a lateral move to the Army and try the Q Course.

it sounds as if whitehall might have a little bitterness maybe he is one of those washouts?

I'd be proud to have been a washout in SEAL training but no, I never came close to SEAL training.

 

[whitehall]

SEALS are stuck in an antiquated concept. They are Sailors so the training is geared toward missions related to the Navy. The problem is that the missions are no longer valid. Most Sailors wash out of Seal training because they cannot adjust to constant hypothermic conditions. Some say that tolerance to hypothermia is genetic and other theories suggest that a certain body type is tolerant of severe cold. Some say that constant exposure to hypothermia and lack of sleep can cause permanent mental disorders. Anyway the Seals wash out people with valuable mental and physical skills and keep people who can stand longer imersion in cold water.

Delta washes out lots of people who would be just fine in the water but aren't so good in the frozen mountains, Recon washes out lots of people who aren't particularly regimented in the "Infantry style" of command and that's almost never used on actual missions. What's your point, that it's not fair to the washouts? Life isn't fair. Having a bias in favor of a certain type of mission that suits a plurality of the needs of the force being augmented is perfectly acceptable, as is diversity in missions after the unit is developed.

A SEAL washout who has the only downfall of not being amazingly tolerant to hypothermia can always try a lateral move to the Army and try the Q Course.

it sounds as if whitehall might have a little bitterness maybe he is one of those washouts?

Don't get your conspiracy juices flowing guys. I never even heard of SEALS when I was a Marine and I don't know anyone who washed out of the program. I'm just an old Vet who prefers to analyze a Military program based on a bio of someone who was there.

 

[Cain]

Delta washes out lots of people who would be just fine in the water but aren't so good in the frozen mountains, Recon washes out lots of people who aren't particularly regimented in the "Infantry style" of command and that's almost never used on actual missions. What's your point, that it's not fair to the washouts? Life isn't fair. Having a bias in favor of a certain type of mission that suits a plurality of the needs of the force being augmented is perfectly acceptable, as is diversity in missions after the unit is developed.

A SEAL washout who has the only downfall of not being amazingly tolerant to hypothermia can always try a lateral move to the Army and try the Q Course.

it sounds as if whitehall might have a little bitterness maybe he is one of those washouts?

Don't get your conspiracy juices flowing guys. I never even heard of SEALS when I was a Marine and I don't know anyone who washed out of the program. I'm just an old Vet who prefers to analyze a Military program based on a bio of someone who was there.

Even though I think your insane for judging the Seals based on 1 book.

Thanks for Serving whitehall

 

[daveman]

I never even heard of SEALS when I was a Marine...

When were you a Marine?

 

[High_Gravity]

I never even heard of SEALS when I was a Marine...

When were you a Marine?

How could he have not heard of the SEALS if he was a Marine? I smell bullshit.

 

[daveman]

I never even heard of SEALS when I was a Marine...

When were you a Marine?

How could he have not heard of the SEALS if he was a Marine? I smell bullshit.

I do, too. The SEALs were established in 1962.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I never even heard of SEALS when I was a Marine...

When were you a Marine?

How could he have not heard of the SEALS if he was a Marine? I smell bullshit.

Me too............sounds like the kid is full of grade A bullshit.

And yeah.......I've been stationed around SEALS and knew them at 3 different locations. When stationed with VFA-131 we had a kid named Chris who had washed out of SEAL training because he'd gotten smashed on the rocks when doing boat training. His whole purpose in life was to get back to training when he was fully healed.

Knew another SEAL while stationed at Oceana named Steve. Nice guy, but poor fucker was ALWAYS on call.

Knew another at the Naval War College in Newport RI. He was one of those guys in Panama.

Are the SEALS necessary? Yes. I've already listed several reasons why.

Is Whitehall a kid with no clue? Equally yes, as referenced by his bullshit posts on this thread.

 

[uscitizen]

The navy must have seals otherwise all their ships and subs would sink.

 

[High_Gravity]

When were you a Marine?

How could he have not heard of the SEALS if he was a Marine? I smell bullshit.

Me too............sounds like the kid is full of grade A bullshit.

And yeah.......I've been stationed around SEALS and knew them at 3 different locations. When stationed with VFA-131 we had a kid named Chris who had washed out of SEAL training because he'd gotten smashed on the rocks when doing boat training. His whole purpose in life was to get back to training when he was fully healed.

Knew another SEAL while stationed at Oceana named Steve. Nice guy, but poor fucker was ALWAYS on call.

Knew another at the Naval War College in Newport RI. He was one of those guys in Panama.

Are the SEALS necessary? Yes. I've already listed several reasons why.

Is Whitehall a kid with no clue? Equally yes, as referenced by his bullshit posts on this thread.

I still believe this kid tried to get into the SEALS and was either denied entry or washed out the first day, and this is his way of feeling better about his failure, tearing down the whole SEALS program.

 

[Jos]

His opinion comes from a book?

I rely on Marcus Luttrell's best seller "Lone Survivor" for my information on Seal training.

 

[daveman]

How could he have not heard of the SEALS if he was a Marine? I smell bullshit.

Me too............sounds like the kid is full of grade A bullshit.

And yeah.......I've been stationed around SEALS and knew them at 3 different locations. When stationed with VFA-131 we had a kid named Chris who had washed out of SEAL training because he'd gotten smashed on the rocks when doing boat training. His whole purpose in life was to get back to training when he was fully healed.

Knew another SEAL while stationed at Oceana named Steve. Nice guy, but poor fucker was ALWAYS on call.

Knew another at the Naval War College in Newport RI. He was one of those guys in Panama.

Are the SEALS necessary? Yes. I've already listed several reasons why.

Is Whitehall a kid with no clue? Equally yes, as referenced by his bullshit posts on this thread.

I still believe this kid tried to get into the SEALS and was either denied entry or washed out the first day, and this is his way of feeling better about his failure, tearing down the whole SEALS program.

I don't even think he's that tough. I think he keeps getting his butt kicked in [ame="http://www.amazon.com/SOCOM-U-S-Navy-Seals-Playstation-2/dp/B000099T2H"]SOCOM II U.S. Navy Seals[/ame].

 

[daveman]

The navy must have seals otherwise all their ships and subs would sink.

You know why they call them SEALs?

Because O-RINGs or GASKETs would be dumb.

 

[uscitizen]

The navy must have seals otherwise all their ships and subs would sink.

You know why they call them SEALs?

Because O-RINGs or GASKETs would be dumb.

Depends on the application. I have seen O-Rings used in applications that were not appropriate and they failed.
I like good double lipped seals best. Of course gaskets have their place too. I like to watch pundits blow theirs

 

[daveman]

The navy must have seals otherwise all their ships and subs would sink.

You know why they call them SEALs?

Because O-RINGs or GASKETs would be dumb.

Depends on the application. I have seen O-Rings used in applications that were not appropriate and they failed.
I like good double lipped seals best. Of course gaskets have their place too. I like to watch pundits blow theirs

 

[whitehall]

I never even heard of SEALS when I was a Marine...

When were you a Marine?

During JFK's administration.

 

[whitehall]

it sounds as if whitehall might have a little bitterness maybe he is one of those washouts?

Don't get your conspiracy juices flowing guys. I never even heard of SEALS when I was a Marine and I don't know anyone who washed out of the program. I'm just an old Vet who prefers to analyze a Military program based on a bio of someone who was there.

Even though I think your insane for judging the Seals based on 1 book.

Thanks for Serving whitehall

The best information we can get is from the original source isn't? Marcus Luttrell's book was a national best-seller autobiography of a modern Navy SEAL. It goes through the motivation and every detail of the training as well as a first hand account of a combat mission. What could be a better way to judge the SEAL concept? Emotion?

 

[daveman]

I never even heard of SEALS when I was a Marine...

When were you a Marine?

During JFK's administration.

The SEALs were established in '62. I have difficulty believing you never heard of them while you were in.

 

[whitehall]

When were you a Marine?

During JFK's administration.

The SEALs were established in '62. I have difficulty believing you never heard of them while you were in.

Why would you think I should have heard of the SEALS in '62? Did they make some sort of impact in the Military world back then? I was just a kid and I didn't read the papers or watch much TV. I was more concerned with getting through NCO Leadership school and about a dozen other challenges back then. It's no big deal whether or not I heard of the SEALS anyway.

 

[william the wie]

When were you a Marine?

During JFK's administration.

The SEALs were established in '62. I have difficulty believing you never heard of them while you were in.

All of the SOCOM units started out as highly classified units. Delta Force which has had semi-official histories written about it still does not officially exist. At least two units that also officially do not exist and rarely get written about do exist according to open sources one provides intelligence for special operations and the other provides logistical support for other units. There are also special cyber warfare units and no doubt many others. Bureaucratic empires uniformed or not tend to grow.