Navy SEALS...is it worth the hype?

[whitehall]

Don't get me wrong or start sending me hate-mail, I think Sailors who endure the training and become Seals are true patriots. It's the SEAL mission I have a problem with. Seals are the evolution of WW2 and later Navy Frogmen or UDT (underwater demolition teams). During WW2 the UDT had a specific mission of gathering intelligence and paving the way for massive Marine amphibious assaults on Japanese held islands. Those days are gone. Today's Seals are a unit with a very limited mission. I rely on Marcus Luttrell's best seller "Lone Survivor" for my information on Seal training. The book is a remarkable account of survival and endurance but the mission the book was based on was a total failure. In the book Luttrell questions why Seals are on patrol at 10,000 ft in the Afghan mountains. Good question. Seals are trained to paddle rubber boats to the point of exhaustion and beyond and to withstand hypothermia. Another section of Luttrell's book says that Seals refused to be billeted with any other Military branch. The lame excuse for that little bit of arrogance is that they might blurt out some secret in their sleep. The elitism and hype is not healthy in today's Military. Seals are used on Recon missions because there is not much else for them to do. There is no shortage of Marine Recon or Ranger or Special Forces personnel. As a matter of fact a Ranger patrol rescued what was left of Luttrell's Seal team.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You really have no idea what SEALS are trained for. The mission has changed a lot since WWII, and all Spec Ops fall under a single unified command.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I refuse to say anything bad about any Special Forces. they all are the best that we have to offer. I've never known a SEAL but I've known many Green Beret. My salute to them all. And BTW contrary to popular belief, Rangers are not really Special Forces, I've known many of them too.

 

[whitehall]

According to Luttrell Seals keep their own identity regardless of the overall commander. SEALS are trained like no other Military unit. Their basic training is specific for water related missions and it it is outmoded. Why go through the expense of training Sailors to paddle rubber boats while unconcious while they wash out otherwise qualified personnel who can't endure extreme hypothermia?

 

[Toome]

With no offense intended to the OP, there are a lot of retards on the Pentagon staff who also have the same attitude. Fact is that the United States needs a robust special operations capability, and the SEALs are an integral part of that multi-dimensional, multi-faceted, multi-tiered capability.

In my view, it's the conventional military that is outdated. We will very rarely see the classic battlefield confrontation. And even when we do, such as the invasion of Iraq, special operations will have played a key role that paved the way. It's the missions after the invasion of Iraq that will characterize future warfare. We learned that lesson a very long time ago in a shithole called Vietnam.

Now I'm not saying that special operations can do it all. I'm just saying that it's the conventional military that finds itself having to adjust its tactics to nation-building, urban operations, peace-keeping and counterinsurgency: classic missions performed by special operations forces. Even so, nothing makes for a good day at the office than the ability to pick up the talkie-walkie and rain steel on a bunch of bad guys with the wrong attitudes.

One Team One Fight.

 

[SFC Ollie]

With no offense intended to the OP, there are a lot of retards on the Pentagon staff who also have the same attitude. Fact is that the United States needs a robust special operations capability, and the SEALs are an integral part of that multi-dimensional, multi-faceted, multi-tiered capability.

In my view, it's the conventional military that is outdated. We will very rarely see the classic battlefield confrontation. And even when we do, such as the invasion of Iraq, special operations will have played a key role that paved the way. It's the missions after the invasion of Iraq that will characterize future warfare. We learned that lesson a very long time ago in a shithole called Vietnam.

Now I'm not saying that special operations can do it all. I'm just saying that it's the conventional military that finds itself having to adjust its tactics to nation-building, urban operations, peace-keeping and counterinsurgency: classic missions performed by special operations forces. Even so, nothing makes for a good day at the office than the ability to pick up the talkie-walkie and rain steel on a bunch of bad guys with the wrong attitudes.

One Team One Fight.

The Signal corps is already ahead of you. We started supplying the front line guys with the military's version of a cell phone before they headed into Desert Shield.

 

[Trajan]

Don't get me wrong or start sending me hate-mail, I think Sailors who endure the training and become Seals are true patriots. It's the SEAL mission I have a problem with. Seals are the evolution of WW2 and later Navy Frogmen or UDT (underwater demolition teams). During WW2 the UDT had a specific mission of gathering intelligence and paving the way for massive Marine amphibious assaults on Japanese held islands. Those days are gone. Today's Seals are a unit with a very limited mission. I rely on Marcus Luttrell's best seller "Lone Survivor" for my information on Seal training. The book is a remarkable account of survival and endurance but the mission the book was based on was a total failure. In the book Luttrell questions why Seals are on patrol at 10,000 ft in the Afghan mountains. Good question. Seals are trained to paddle rubber boats to the point of exhaustion and beyond and to withstand hypothermia. Another section of Luttrell's book says that Seals refused to be billeted with any other Military branch. The lame excuse for that little bit of arrogance is that they might blurt out some secret in their sleep. The elitism and hype is not healthy in today's Military. Seals are used on Recon missions because there is not much else for them to do. There is no shortage of Marine Recon or Ranger or Special Forces personnel. As a matter of fact a Ranger patrol rescued what was left of Luttrell's Seal team.

The elitism and hype is not healthy in today's Military.

actually it does have a place. it helps recruitment, it helps Esprit de corps and its well earned.

AIT is as far from BUDs as the back side of the moon is to us.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

According to Luttrell Seals keep their own identity regardless of the overall commander. SEALS are trained like no other Military unit. Their basic training is specific for water related missions and it it is outmoded. Why go through the expense of training Sailors to paddle rubber boats while unconcious while they wash out otherwise qualified personnel who can't endure extreme hypothermia?

Because they know they can do that that, and they know their exact physical limits. That means they know what they can, and cannot, do.

 

[whitehall]

When legendary coach Paul "bear" Bryant took over the football program in Texas A&M in the early 1950's he decided the players were weak and needed toughening up so he took the squad out to a place called Junction and worked the players in ways that might be considered criminal today. By the time he was finished he washed out many team members and had the toughest players ever to wear the A&M uniform. They went on to lose every game but one the next season. Seals wash out a lot of good and skilled men in order to come up with Sailors who are able to paddle a rubber boat while unconcious. What's the point? To come up with a handful of elitist hypothermia resistant Sailors. Espirit is good, elitism is dangerous.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Tell you what, you have a problem with the SEALS? Go tell one of them to their face. The rest of us will simply give them the respect they deserve.

 

[whitehall]

Tell you what, you have a problem with the SEALS? Go tell one of them to their face. The rest of us will simply give them the respect they deserve.

Yeah yeah yeah Ollie. Challenge them to a fight. That will substitute for intelligent discussion.

 

[High_Gravity]

I say we can never have enough SEALS, Delta, Rangers etc.

 

[High_Gravity]

With no offense intended to the OP, there are a lot of retards on the Pentagon staff who also have the same attitude. Fact is that the United States needs a robust special operations capability, and the SEALs are an integral part of that multi-dimensional, multi-faceted, multi-tiered capability.

In my view, it's the conventional military that is outdated. We will very rarely see the classic battlefield confrontation. And even when we do, such as the invasion of Iraq, special operations will have played a key role that paved the way. It's the missions after the invasion of Iraq that will characterize future warfare. We learned that lesson a very long time ago in a shithole called Vietnam.

Now I'm not saying that special operations can do it all. I'm just saying that it's the conventional military that finds itself having to adjust its tactics to nation-building, urban operations, peace-keeping and counterinsurgency: classic missions performed by special operations forces. Even so, nothing makes for a good day at the office than the ability to pick up the talkie-walkie and rain steel on a bunch of bad guys with the wrong attitudes.

One Team One Fight.

There may not have been a convetional Military battle in a long time but I still want to keep that conventional force ready, not every war is going to be a guerilla war like in Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Tell you what, you have a problem with the SEALS? Go tell one of them to their face. The rest of us will simply give them the respect they deserve.

Yeah yeah yeah Ollie. Challenge them to a fight. That will substitute for intelligent discussion.

I did not say to challenge them to a fight. I said to tell them your problem with them. Chances are you will walk away wondering why you feel so stupid. There is a lot more to SF than physical strength.

 

[whitehall]

SEALS are stuck in an antiquated concept. They are Sailors so the training is geared toward missions related to the Navy. The problem is that the missions are no longer valid. Most Sailors wash out of Seal training because they cannot adjust to constant hypothermic conditions. Some say that tolerance to hypothermia is genetic and other theories suggest that a certain body type is tolerant of severe cold. Some say that constant exposure to hypothermia and lack of sleep can cause permanent mental disorders. Anyway the Seals wash out people with valuable mental and physical skills and keep people who can stand longer imersion in cold water.

 

[High_Gravity]

SEALS are stuck in an antiquated concept. They are Sailors so the training is geared toward missions related to the Navy. The problem is that the missions are no longer valid. Most Sailors wash out of Seal training because they cannot adjust to constant hypothermic conditions. Some say that tolerance to hypothermia is genetic and other theories suggest that a certain body type is tolerant of severe cold. Some say that constant exposure to hypothermia and lack of sleep can cause permanent mental disorders. Anyway the Seals wash out people with valuable mental and physical skills and keep people who can stand longer imersion in cold water.

The Navy Seals are doing alot of behind the scenes work in Afghanistan taking out top and mid level Taliban Commanders, you are not going to see everything that SEALS do be put on Fox News or CNN. You really have no understanding about what the SEALS do.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The Army's grueling Special Forces Assessment and Selection (SFAS) has a historical attrition rate that hovers around 70 percent--with another 10-15 percent lost in the ensuing Special Forces Qualification Course. This is not attrition for attrition's sake; in fact, Special Forces candidates are not harassed, hazed, or otherwise coerced into quitting at any time. Rather, the physical and mental rigors of the training cull out those who do not possess the necessary attributes for service in SOF. The end result is a soldier who is tough, self-reliant, innovative, and flexible. We have witnessed the true value of this process in recent operations around the world SOF has proven to be a decisive element and the force of choice in our struggle against terrorism.

Couldn't find the drop out rates for SEALS, But my guess is it's about the same.

 

[Toome]

SEALS are stuck in an antiquated concept. They are Sailors so the training is geared toward missions related to the Navy. The problem is that the missions are no longer valid. Most Sailors wash out of Seal training because they cannot adjust to constant hypothermic conditions. Some say that tolerance to hypothermia is genetic and other theories suggest that a certain body type is tolerant of severe cold. Some say that constant exposure to hypothermia and lack of sleep can cause permanent mental disorders. Anyway the Seals wash out people with valuable mental and physical skills and keep people who can stand longer imersion in cold water.

Pretty difficult to hold any meaningful discussion without knowing your experience level. Taking a wild SWAG here, but it seems that you're basing a lot of your views on whatever you've been able to read from open source materials. And that's fair enough.

What SFC Ollie, High Gravity, Trajan, Quantum Windbag and others are saying, based on their backgrounds and first hand experiences, is that there is a lot more to being a SEAL than standing in cold water or going without sleep. And none of us are going to hint or reveal anything classified to satisfy your curiosity. Suffice it to say that if you want to believe that SEALs are antiquated, old-fashioned and not needed, go right ahead. No one is trying to change your mind.

However, you should at least acknowledge that there is a classified side to what the SEALs do. And if someone who has had some exposure to the Dark Side says that there's a lot more than meets the eye, then you should at least consider that there's more to it than just tradition, testosterone and bravado when it comes to the SEALs and the rest of the special ops community.

Whether you want to believe this or not, the military is a highly efficient institution. Yeah, we all make our jokes about some of the silly things we've seen, but combat has no forgiveness for stupidity. Combat forces the military to be successful. If the SEALs were truly outdated and unnecessary, the Pentagon would have phased them out a long time ago.

 

[High_Gravity]

SEALS are stuck in an antiquated concept. They are Sailors so the training is geared toward missions related to the Navy. The problem is that the missions are no longer valid. Most Sailors wash out of Seal training because they cannot adjust to constant hypothermic conditions. Some say that tolerance to hypothermia is genetic and other theories suggest that a certain body type is tolerant of severe cold. Some say that constant exposure to hypothermia and lack of sleep can cause permanent mental disorders. Anyway the Seals wash out people with valuable mental and physical skills and keep people who can stand longer imersion in cold water.

Pretty difficult to hold any meaningful discussion without knowing your experience level. Taking a wild SWAG here, but it seems that you're basing a lot of your views on whatever you've been able to read from open source materials. And that's fair enough.

What SFC Ollie, High Gravity, Trajan, Quantum Windbag and others are saying, based on their backgrounds and first hand experiences, is that there is a lot more to being a SEAL than standing in cold water or going without sleep. And none of us are going to hint or reveal anything classified to satisfy your curiosity. Suffice it to say that if you want to believe that SEALs are antiquated, old-fashioned and not needed, go right ahead. No one is trying to change your mind.

However, you should at least acknowledge that there is a classified side to what the SEALs do. And if someone who has had some exposure to the Dark Side says that there's a lot more than meets the eye, then you should at least consider that there's more to it than just tradition, testosterone and bravado when it comes to the SEALs and the rest of the special ops community.

Whether you want to believe this or not, the military is a highly efficient institution. Yeah, we all make our jokes about some of the silly things we've seen, but combat has no forgiveness for stupidity. Combat forces the military to be successful. If the SEALs were truly outdated and unnecessary, the Pentagon would have phased them out a long time ago.

Thank you, all this guy keeps talking about is the SEALS falling asleep in water and getting hypothermia.

 

[SFC Ollie]

SEALS are stuck in an antiquated concept. They are Sailors so the training is geared toward missions related to the Navy. The problem is that the missions are no longer valid. Most Sailors wash out of Seal training because they cannot adjust to constant hypothermic conditions. Some say that tolerance to hypothermia is genetic and other theories suggest that a certain body type is tolerant of severe cold. Some say that constant exposure to hypothermia and lack of sleep can cause permanent mental disorders. Anyway the Seals wash out people with valuable mental and physical skills and keep people who can stand longer imersion in cold water.

Pretty difficult to hold any meaningful discussion without knowing your experience level. Taking a wild SWAG here, but it seems that you're basing a lot of your views on whatever you've been able to read from open source materials. And that's fair enough.

What SFC Ollie, High Gravity, Trajan, Quantum Windbag and others are saying, based on their backgrounds and first hand experiences, is that there is a lot more to being a SEAL than standing in cold water or going without sleep. And none of us are going to hint or reveal anything classified to satisfy your curiosity. Suffice it to say that if you want to believe that SEALs are antiquated, old-fashioned and not needed, go right ahead. No one is trying to change your mind.

However, you should at least acknowledge that there is a classified side to what the SEALs do. And if someone who has had some exposure to the Dark Side says that there's a lot more than meets the eye, then you should at least consider that there's more to it than just tradition, testosterone and bravado when it comes to the SEALs and the rest of the special ops community.

Whether you want to believe this or not, the military is a highly efficient institution. Yeah, we all make our jokes about some of the silly things we've seen, but combat has no forgiveness for stupidity. Combat forces the military to be successful. If the SEALs were truly outdated and unnecessary, the Pentagon would have phased them out a long time ago.

Thank you, all this guy keeps talking about is the SEALS falling asleep in water and getting hypothermia.

And that's probably some footnote in a book he attempted to read. Or out of some movie.