Navy SEALS...is it worth the hype?

[asterism]

Seals have no business in Afghanistan except to protect the ships that support the mission. Marine Recon and Army Special Forces and Rangers are quite able to handle the mission without elitist Seals getting in the way.

I'll go tell my local VA guy (ex-Navy Seal) what you think. I am sure he can respond in return .

You have NO BUSINESS telling people what they should and should NOT be doing. You know what? Don't even attempt to do something in the military if you think what YOU think is going to work out great.

You know what's funny? It doesn't matter what I think in the next 6 years. You know why? I signed a contract, and I am stuck in it. Guess what? That's fine by me, I didn't sign up with the intent to change the military, I went in and will always have, the intent to do more for myself and my community (the US of A). Yea, sure, I could tell my recruiter what I think Security Force, should be doing, but guess what? That will get me either: A) Told to shut up. or B) Told to shut up, and run a few more miles after everyone is done.

And for your information, some of these 'wishful' thinkers have served before, and you know what? I think that earns them a little respect and maybe just a little bit of credibility, so want to know what I have to say to you?


"

"

Um, you're going into the Air Force. Maybe you'll be asked to make some more coffee or run off some more copies instead.

 

[editec]

Empire needs its assassins, folks.

When wetwork (on the dark side) is called for, units like the SEALS come in handy.

 

[daveman]

Go away child, you know so very little about what you speak.

"Go away"? Don't make me comment about phonies who cut and paste Military rank to reinforce their lack of intelligence.

Of course, because it's so much more intelligent to declare a unit superfluous because you read one book about one failed mission.

SEALs, like all special operators, are like guns...better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them.

Meanwhile, they're gainfully employed, doing things you and I and 99% of humanity aren't capable of. They're not just sitting in garrison polishing their boots and sharpening their knives.

In the immortal words of Col Jessup, "I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

 

[daveman]

Don't get me wrong or start sending me hate-mail, I think Sailors who endure the training and become Seals are true patriots.

And do you think that those who do not become Seals are less than true patriots?

You gotta laugh sometimes. What's your claim to true patriotism toxic? Do you have any actual experience in the field or is the question strictly based on emotion?

You sound fat.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

SEALS are stuck in an antiquated concept. They are Sailors so the training is geared toward missions related to the Navy. The problem is that the missions are no longer valid. Most Sailors wash out of Seal training because they cannot adjust to constant hypothermic conditions. Some say that tolerance to hypothermia is genetic and other theories suggest that a certain body type is tolerant of severe cold. Some say that constant exposure to hypothermia and lack of sleep can cause permanent mental disorders. Anyway the Seals wash out people with valuable mental and physical skills and keep people who can stand longer imersion in cold water.

Delta washes out lots of people who would be just fine in the water but aren't so good in the frozen mountains, Recon washes out lots of people who aren't particularly regimented in the "Infantry style" of command and that's almost never used on actual missions. What's your point, that it's not fair to the washouts? Life isn't fair. Having a bias in favor of a certain type of mission that suits a plurality of the needs of the force being augmented is perfectly acceptable, as is diversity in missions after the unit is developed.

A SEAL washout who has the only downfall of not being amazingly tolerant to hypothermia can always try a lateral move to the Army and try the Q Course.

it sounds as if whitehall might have a little bitterness maybe he is one of those washouts?

 

[asterism]

SEALS are stuck in an antiquated concept. They are Sailors so the training is geared toward missions related to the Navy. The problem is that the missions are no longer valid. Most Sailors wash out of Seal training because they cannot adjust to constant hypothermic conditions. Some say that tolerance to hypothermia is genetic and other theories suggest that a certain body type is tolerant of severe cold. Some say that constant exposure to hypothermia and lack of sleep can cause permanent mental disorders. Anyway the Seals wash out people with valuable mental and physical skills and keep people who can stand longer imersion in cold water.

Delta washes out lots of people who would be just fine in the water but aren't so good in the frozen mountains, Recon washes out lots of people who aren't particularly regimented in the "Infantry style" of command and that's almost never used on actual missions. What's your point, that it's not fair to the washouts? Life isn't fair. Having a bias in favor of a certain type of mission that suits a plurality of the needs of the force being augmented is perfectly acceptable, as is diversity in missions after the unit is developed.

A SEAL washout who has the only downfall of not being amazingly tolerant to hypothermia can always try a lateral move to the Army and try the Q Course.

it sounds as if whitehall might have a little bitterness maybe he is one of those washouts?

Perhaps a lat move might work out. I know a few Recon washouts that did some amazing things wearing green berets.

 

[whitehall]

Go away child, you know so very little about what you speak.

"Go away"? Don't make me comment about phonies who cut and paste Military rank to reinforce their lack of intelligence.

Your right. We should trust a theory based on a guy who believes he is some sort of intellect on the Navy Seals because he has seen a report...

Honestly, I hope you leave, your pretty annoying, you insult other members, and then call one of them a liar on his military status.

Best of luck in future ventures.

I read a book. What do you base your opinions on? Emotion?

 

[whitehall]

Go away child, you know so very little about what you speak.

"Go away"? Don't make me comment about phonies who cut and paste Military rank to reinforce their lack of intelligence.

LOL go right ahead. I believe anyone who has been around here for a while can vouch for my service. Even met one member here for coffee last month. So if you want to attack my service you go for it. You won't be the first or last.

Yes I wear my rank because I earned it. And yes I'm proud of it.

I don't appreciate being called "child" by someone who is obviously so insecure that he has to bolster his lack of intelligence with a cut and paste military rank. If you need to rely on emotion and can't discuss the topic with decorum you will be subject to the same abuse you dish out.

 

[logical4u]

Don't get me wrong or start sending me hate-mail, I think Sailors who endure the training and become Seals are true patriots. It's the SEAL mission I have a problem with. Seals are the evolution of WW2 and later Navy Frogmen or UDT (underwater demolition teams). During WW2 the UDT had a specific mission of gathering intelligence and paving the way for massive Marine amphibious assaults on Japanese held islands. Those days are gone. Today's Seals are a unit with a very limited mission. I rely on Marcus Luttrell's best seller "Lone Survivor" for my information on Seal training. The book is a remarkable account of survival and endurance but the mission the book was based on was a total failure. In the book Luttrell questions why Seals are on patrol at 10,000 ft in the Afghan mountains. Good question. Seals are trained to paddle rubber boats to the point of exhaustion and beyond and to withstand hypothermia. Another section of Luttrell's book says that Seals refused to be billeted with any other Military branch. The lame excuse for that little bit of arrogance is that they might blurt out some secret in their sleep. The elitism and hype is not healthy in today's Military. Seals are used on Recon missions because there is not much else for them to do. There is no shortage of Marine Recon or Ranger or Special Forces personnel. As a matter of fact a Ranger patrol rescued what was left of Luttrell's Seal team.

"The elitism and hype is not healthy", we could go a lot of places with this one.
Is it healthy for the government to think they can tell citizens how to think and what they have to buy?
If you want a service and you want the best,how do you choose? Do you want someone that can demonstrate their ability is above and beyond the competitor or do you just settle for shoddy work?

Do you know where vet school washouts go?....medical school (old joke to demonstrate how hard vet school is)

In the military, "elitism" is use to motivate people to be the very best in their field. Are you suggesting we should give them all awards for any performance?
I have worked in a few different fields where those at the top of their game were "prima donas". Their skills brought up the morale of all, and brought the unit closer and more competetive with each other.
They did not want to billet with others that did not understand their mission. When an officer was assigned from a different mission, there were really ugly lessons. The officer had priorities that did not support the mission and hurt morale.
When an experienced officer was assigned that understood the mission and knew how to support it, the unit was well prepared to meet their mission(s) with high morale. They did not need to "like" the officer, they needed to respect them.

The Navy SEALS, along with the other "elite" fighting forces are used for very specific missions. They have more intensive training than most of the military members. Would you prefer to send the best that have a chance of completing the mission, or would you prefer to send troops without that level of training to senseless deaths, with little hope of completing the mission?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULzKNFAYG0o&feature=feedrec_grec_index[/ame]

 

[ABikerSailor]

Go away child, you know so very little about what you speak.

"Go away"? Don't make me comment about phonies who cut and paste Military rank to reinforce their lack of intelligence.

Hey White Hall.........SFC Ollie and I have very large idealogical differences, as well as differences in service, but for some dumb shit to say he cut and pasted his service is bullshit and I call shennanigans on your sorry ass. Yeah......I do give Ollie shit about his service, but it's because of his job and my views concerning differences in service members.

Don't fuck with Ollie about his service. You can fuck with him any other which way, but until you've actually put on a uniform, you have no place to talk. Ollie served this country for 20 years with honor, as is reflected in the fact that he's retired.

Me? I'm a 20 year Navy veteran who in addition to having had quite a few duty stations where SEALs were at, can tell you a thing or two about them, because I've had to help other members with their application packages.

First, you've got to be in perfect health, with no kind of mental instability in your past. Your eyes must be no worse than 20/70, correctable to 20/20 with glasses. You must also pass an entrance PRT which is about twice as hard as what the rest of the troops do.

You must then be screened BY A SEAL and pass their inspection before being considered.

Wanna know the washout rates? Out of 1,000 people who apply, only about 100 will be accepted into BUDs training. Of those 100 that are accepted, only about 30 or 40 will pass BUDs, which then opens up the way for them to receive SEAL training and then, upon completion of the 2 year training, they are entitled to wear the Budweiser, which is the SEAL insignia.

By the way chumpsteak, do you even know what SEAL stands for? It stands for SEa, Air, Land, which is how they run their missions.

Either they jump out of an airplane and do a HALO (High Altitude, Low Opening) into the water several miles off shore of the place they're going to, or they are inserted into about 60 ft of water from a submerged submarine. They then swim onto shore, stow their gear, go inland and take out whatever they're sent for, then go back, get the gear, paddle back out to the waiting sub, and THEN come home.

Much different from the good old days of the UDT. Yes, SEALs are trained for underwater demolitions, but they're also trained to jump out of airplanes, survive in the wild off the land.

What part of that doesn't seem special to you? Furthermore, SEALs are able to get into places (via HALO or other insertion methods) that most of the military would never be able to get to.

Tell ya what idiot, why don't you actually go talk to a REAL SEAL, and then apologize to them for having such a fucked up view of their service.

While you're at it, apologize to SFC Ollie. Yeah, I think he's an idiot in some of his views, but that doesn't lessen the service he gave this country.

 

[SFC Ollie]

"Go away"? Don't make me comment about phonies who cut and paste Military rank to reinforce their lack of intelligence.

LOL go right ahead. I believe anyone who has been around here for a while can vouch for my service. Even met one member here for coffee last month. So if you want to attack my service you go for it. You won't be the first or last.

Yes I wear my rank because I earned it. And yes I'm proud of it.

I don't appreciate being called "child" by someone who is obviously so insecure that he has to bolster his lack of intelligence with a cut and paste military rank. If you need to rely on emotion and can't discuss the topic with decorum you will be subject to the same abuse you dish out.

Child you may visit my profile page where I posted my Military ID Card for all to see. It's been there for over a year. I don't play stupid little games with children who attack my service. And my service is a big part of this thread because it is after all about the military.
Now you don't like my answers or comments on this that's just too bad. You read a book, I lived the life for 22 years.

Once again you read about one mission that failed, shit happens. When you have been there you might understand.

 

[Toome]

Don't go swimming with sharks smelling like chum.

 

[whitehall]

Pretty difficult to hold any meaningful discussion without knowing your experience level. Taking a wild SWAG here, but it seems that you're basing a lot of your views on whatever you've been able to read from open source materials. And that's fair enough.

What SFC Ollie, High Gravity, Trajan, Quantum Windbag and others are saying, based on their backgrounds and first hand experiences, is that there is a lot more to being a SEAL than standing in cold water or going without sleep. And none of us are going to hint or reveal anything classified to satisfy your curiosity. Suffice it to say that if you want to believe that SEALs are antiquated, old-fashioned and not needed, go right ahead. No one is trying to change your mind.

However, you should at least acknowledge that there is a classified side to what the SEALs do. And if someone who has had some exposure to the Dark Side says that there's a lot more than meets the eye, then you should at least consider that there's more to it than just tradition, testosterone and bravado when it comes to the SEALs and the rest of the special ops community.

Whether you want to believe this or not, the military is a highly efficient institution. Yeah, we all make our jokes about some of the silly things we've seen, but combat has no forgiveness for stupidity. Combat forces the military to be successful. If the SEALs were truly outdated and unnecessary, the Pentagon would have phased them out a long time ago.

My source material is the recent biography of a Navy Seal and my own life experiences. We all know that the Pentagon is ....well....the Pentagon. SEALS have created a niche in the Military and the Pentagon ain't about to go against a pop-culture legend regardless of it's effectiveness or the lack of it. Let's review the painfull facts. Luttrell says that SEALS refuse to be billited with other (inferior trained?) Troops. It's a quote. Those BUD graduates who mastered hypothermia go on to Army training and specific Spec-Ops schools that they might be qualified for but the Army and the Marines have a high level of really qualified candidates and the SEALS have a limited source of people who managed to withstand cold showers and paddling rubber boats until unconscious. Now we have SEAL units who think they are the most elite Troops in the Military but they are led by BUD graduates who can hold their breath for a really long time and tolerate cold showers but might not stack up to Army specialist skills. Case in point the SEAL Lt who jumped on a chopper to rescue Luttrell's Seal team and landed in front of an RPG.

LMAO the Navy SEALS are pop culture now? child you are lost.

Please don't call me child puff daddy. If you have an opinion relevant to the topic post it.

 

[Cain]

My source material is the recent biography of a Navy Seal and my own life experiences. We all know that the Pentagon is ....well....the Pentagon. SEALS have created a niche in the Military and the Pentagon ain't about to go against a pop-culture legend regardless of it's effectiveness or the lack of it. Let's review the painfull facts. Luttrell says that SEALS refuse to be billited with other (inferior trained?) Troops. It's a quote. Those BUD graduates who mastered hypothermia go on to Army training and specific Spec-Ops schools that they might be qualified for but the Army and the Marines have a high level of really qualified candidates and the SEALS have a limited source of people who managed to withstand cold showers and paddling rubber boats until unconscious. Now we have SEAL units who think they are the most elite Troops in the Military but they are led by BUD graduates who can hold their breath for a really long time and tolerate cold showers but might not stack up to Army specialist skills. Case in point the SEAL Lt who jumped on a chopper to rescue Luttrell's Seal team and landed in front of an RPG.

LMAO the Navy SEALS are pop culture now? child you are lost.

Please don't call me child puff daddy. If you have an opinion relevant to the topic post it.

You mine as well quit while you are ahead hunny.

 

[Big Black Dog]

As a corpsman in the Navy, I was stationed on San Clemente Island, CA. The SEALS used to train out there a lot. Now and then I would treat one who had an injury while there on the island. It is my experience that Navy SEALS are very intelligent, well-trained and disciplined members of the Armed Forces. They have, and continue, to serve this nation well.

 

[whitehall]

LOL go right ahead. I believe anyone who has been around here for a while can vouch for my service. Even met one member here for coffee last month. So if you want to attack my service you go for it. You won't be the first or last.

Yes I wear my rank because I earned it. And yes I'm proud of it.

I don't appreciate being called "child" by someone who is obviously so insecure that he has to bolster his lack of intelligence with a cut and paste military rank. If you need to rely on emotion and can't discuss the topic with decorum you will be subject to the same abuse you dish out.

Child you may visit my profile page where I posted my Military ID Card for all to see. It's been there for over a year. I don't play stupid little games with children who attack my service. And my service is a big part of this thread because it is after all about the military.
Now you don't like my answers or comments on this that's just too bad. You read a book, I lived the life for 22 years.

Once again you read about one mission that failed, shit happens. When you have been there you might understand.

Please don't make yourself a bigger fool than you are Ollie. 22 Years enlisted might qualify you as an expert in your particular (Army) MOS but It doesn't qualify you as an expert in the SEALS or any other Military operation.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I don't appreciate being called "child" by someone who is obviously so insecure that he has to bolster his lack of intelligence with a cut and paste military rank. If you need to rely on emotion and can't discuss the topic with decorum you will be subject to the same abuse you dish out.

Child you may visit my profile page where I posted my Military ID Card for all to see. It's been there for over a year. I don't play stupid little games with children who attack my service. And my service is a big part of this thread because it is after all about the military.
Now you don't like my answers or comments on this that's just too bad. You read a book, I lived the life for 22 years.

Once again you read about one mission that failed, shit happens. When you have been there you might understand.

Please don't make yourself a bigger fool than you are Ollie. 22 Years enlisted might qualify you as an expert in your particular (Army) MOS but It doesn't qualify you as an expert in the SEALS or any other Military operation.

Let us compare.

I served 22 years on active duty. Where I had mission contacts with SF Units on numerous occasions.

You read a book about one mission.


OK I'm done.....

 

[Cain]

I don't appreciate being called "child" by someone who is obviously so insecure that he has to bolster his lack of intelligence with a cut and paste military rank. If you need to rely on emotion and can't discuss the topic with decorum you will be subject to the same abuse you dish out.

Child you may visit my profile page where I posted my Military ID Card for all to see. It's been there for over a year. I don't play stupid little games with children who attack my service. And my service is a big part of this thread because it is after all about the military.
Now you don't like my answers or comments on this that's just too bad. You read a book, I lived the life for 22 years.

Once again you read about one mission that failed, shit happens. When you have been there you might understand.

Please don't make yourself a bigger fool than you are Ollie. 22 Years enlisted might qualify you as an expert in your particular (Army) MOS but It doesn't qualify you as an expert in the SEALS or any other Military operation.

My uncle was in the Air Force for 13 years in tele-type, but he also served with Special Ops on occasion. I think you need to realize, everyone intermingles at one point or another. I've met 3 Navy Seals in my life, and 1 told me a LOT about his job, and from what I gathered, he loved it, he is the local VA guy, and a really nice guy. No offense, but your argument is null.

All branches inspire pride, and pride clashes with pride. That is why you see each branch talking about the other like they do. So, look at Special Ops as pride x10, because they have had to go through a lot of different stuff and have earned some sort of mark, for example: Pararescue Men get a maroon beret. It's a symbol of pride and respect. You can't complain about their ideas of what it takes to be *insert name of group* I mean really, who are you to complain?

You have went through this topic, insulting service members, and you have lost all respect I have for new members. Why do you persist in critiquing Navy Seals? Do you think their inferior? That they all have superiority complexes? Guess what? A lot of people do, and when you take someone, put them through crazy training, and train them to be elite, guess what? It grows. My advice? Get over it.

I deal with superiority complexes everyday, that's high school. That's life. You are sitting here, telling us how their wrong to make people go through that stuff, guess what? They VOLUNTEER for Navy Seals, no one is sticking a gun to their head. If they want to quit, let them, it's their right to choose. Personally, I'd rather have a Navy Seal who has a ego, then someone who wants to critique the training whom read 1 book about them. I've read 6+ books on Navy Seals, I guess that means I have a PHD in Navy Seal training, above you.

You need to learn respect whitehall, you are bashing people whom have done nothing but tried to show you your wrongs, it's obvious you can't handle criticism very well, my advice? Never go to a recruiter cause even they will criticize you a lot, why? To see how it affects you, and you sir, fail the test.

Also, Ollie isn't the fool sir, you are.

 

[daveman]

I don't appreciate being called "child"...

Tough shit, kid.