My Two Cents Regarding People Who Think Islam Is Intolerant.

[Mr.Fitnah]

It isnt pay dirt it is just impact.

The Most High has said: "O you who believe! Do not take your fathers and brothers as friends if they prefer disbelief over belief. Whoever amongst you befriends them, they are the wrongdoers" (9:23). He also said: "O You who believe, do not take My enemy and your enemy as friends and protectors. You show them love when they have rejected the truth that has come to you" (60:1).

The Prophet of Allah (S.A.W.) has said: "The faith of a believer is never complete until his love is for Allah's sake and his hatred is for Allah's sake". And he also said: "Love for Allah and love for His enemy can never co-exist in the heart of a believer".

 

[Godboy]

There is a grain of truth in what you say, but a very small grain. A mosque is defined as a place of worship. Calling the center a mosque would be as stupid as calling the United Nations building or Bellvue Hospital a mosque because they each have a Muslim prayer room. This's why it's called a community center.

It might be of interest to you to know that there was a Muslim prayer room on the 2nd floor of the World Trade Center. Should we then call the World Trade Center a mosque.

There were also 358 WTC Muslim employees that died in the 911 attack. Something the hate mongers seem to ignore.

The Future of Islam - Google Bücher

The small grain, if I am willing to be generous, is on your side of the argument. There is a difference between a room set aside for prayer in a secular building, and a portion of a building that is intended to be dedicated to being a mosque. Your argument was that it is not a mosque because it also serves other functions. By that argument a church that has a gym, school, and day care center is not a church. Since I know life does not work that way in the real world, this is a mosque.

I don't ignore the fact that Muslims died in the WTC, I have no reason to. This does not change any facts about what happened, or who did it, or why. Lots of Muslims die in Iraq every time another Muslim blows himself up to kill people. If Islam was a religion of peace and tolerance this would not be happening. That is something terrorist apologist have no trouble ignoring.

You say "This does not change any facts about what happened, or who did it, or why." I agree. The facts are the people that are building the center did not attack us. The people that will use the center did not attack us. Yet we say go build your center some place else. Your religion is offensive to us and the victims of 911, forgetting that hundreds of innocent Muslims died in the attack.

This was an opportunity for Americans to show the Muslim world that we are not the intolerant devils of terrorist propaganda. But we blew it, just as we did with native Americans, blacks, Japanese Americans and the Chinese. I guess nothing really changes in America. [/B]

So, if we had proven this to the world, then what? What does that do for us? How would that make us safer? Are you under the impression that Islamic terrorists around the world would suddenly throw down their weapons and sing kumbaya? Are you fucking retarded? You dipshit liberals keep repeating this total nonsense over and over again, as if you have some kind of important point there, but you dont. You would have to be a complete moron to think this would effect world veiws in any way at all. How can so many of you believe these dumbass things? Is being naive a requirement for liberalism? I dont get it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Such TOLERANT muslims... oh yeah...

Great job of spreading a little religious hatred around the Internet. You might convince a few sick bastards to burn a mosque or kill a few innocent people; a damn good way to bring the terrorist dreams to reality. It only takes one match in the right place to start a forest fire.

That fire was lit on 9/11.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Just a last word before I unsubscribe this thread. Apparently, I hit real pay dirt with my comments or I wouldn't be reading such venomous posts. I leave you with this to rave and rant to your heart's content.

"You have two qualities which God, the Most Exalted, likes and loves. One is mildness and the other is toleration." Prophet Muhammad: Riyadh us-Saleheen Volume 1:632

Wouldn't it be something if muslims lived by that scripture.

 

[JadedVII]

Such TOLERANT muslims... oh yeah...

Great job of spreading a little religious hatred around the Internet. You might convince a few sick bastards to burn a mosque or kill a few innocent people; a damn good way to bring the terrorist dreams to reality. It only takes one match in the right place to start a forest fire.

This.

See, this is the kind of right-wing propaganda that I'm sick of hearing. I just so happen to have a few friends who are of Islamic descent. Never have I once heard them discuss something of the likes of, "PRAISE BE WITH ALLAH AND HIS PROPHET MOHAMMAD! LET'S GO BLOW UP SOME INFIDEL-INHABITED CITIES AND SPREAD THE WORD OF ISLAM AROUND THE GLOBE!!"

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Just a last word before I unsubscribe this thread. Apparently, I hit real pay dirt with my comments or I wouldn't be reading such venomous posts. I leave you with this to rave and rant to your heart's content.

"You have two qualities which God, the Most Exalted, likes and loves. One is mildness and the other is toleration." Prophet Muhammad: Riyadh us-Saleheen Volume 1:632

Wouldn't it be something if muslims lived by that scripture.

The part that he forgets to mention is abrogation. Since this is the first Sura it is pretty easy to post to other verses and say they over ride this lovey dovey stuff.

 

[Kalam]

The part that he forgets to mention is abrogation. Since this is the first Sura it is pretty easy to post to other verses and say they over ride this lovey dovey stuff.

Riyadh us-Saliheen is a hadith compilation.

This is what happens when non-Muslims feign intelligence and familiarity with Islamic doctrine. "Abrogation" indeed.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This.

This? Those were all real Muslims, and those protests were in European countries where people wpeak English, which is why the signs are in English, instead of Arabic.

See, this is the kind of right-wing propaganda that I'm sick of hearing. I just so happen to have a few friends who are of Islamic descent. Never have I once heard them discuss something of the likes of, "PRAISE BE WITH ALLAH AND HIS PROPHET MOHAMMAD! LET'S GO BLOW UP SOME INFIDEL-INHABITED CITIES AND SPREAD THE WORD OF ISLAM AROUND THE GLOBE!!"

Ask them a few direct questions.

Do they think it is reasonable for someone to be condemned for portraying Muhammad in a negative way? Should someone who desecrates the Qur'an be subject to criminal sanctions? Should all people live under the wisdom of Shariah law? Ask them about what they really believe, and think about what that means to you.

Then come back here and whine about how rightwingers are distorting Islam and its teachings.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The part that he forgets to mention is abrogation. Since this is the first Sura it is pretty easy to post to other verses and say they over ride this lovey dovey stuff.

Riyadh us-Saliheen is a hadith compilation.

This is what happens when non-Muslims feign intelligence and familiarity with Islamic doctrine. "Abrogation" indeed.

Abrogation does not apply to anything but the Qur'an? Does that mean that Allah is the only person that is ever wrong?

It still comes down to when Muhammad said this, and what he said after. Even if it is not the Qur'an, it can still be abrogated by something he said later. That is what makes Islam unhealthy, the fact that it could not even get through a few years in one man's life without being changed because the guy could not keep his story straight.

Sorry about the mix up there, but at least I am not claiming to be guided by divine revelation when I goof up.

 

[Kalam]

Abrogation does not apply to anything but the Qur'an? Does that mean that Allah is the only person that is ever wrong?

You stated that this came from the "first surah," which I found funny. And thank you for demonstrating that the concept of nasikh and mansukh is above your level of comprehension.

It still comes down to when Muhammad said this, and what he said after. Even if it is not the Qur'an, it can still be abrogated by something he said later.

Can you show me the hadith in which he (SAWS) indicates that this has been "abrogated"?

 

[BullMoose]

This is what I don't get, we invaded Iraq to free the Iraqi people right? I mean, it was called Operation Iraqi Freedom. So, basically we went in to save people from an evil tyrant. Not intolerant, Christian hating jerks.PEOPLE.
But now we're saying we hate all these people? These people that our troops died for? Risked their lives to save? I find this insulting! I think that our troops deserve to be told the truth. Did we send them to the middle east to kill Muslims or to help them? Did we send them to destroy one group of people or did we send them to FREE a group a people? Did we send them to spread democracy, liberty and freedom, or did we send them to spread hate, intolerance and totalitarianism.

 

[manu1959]

YouTube - Islam = Intolerant?

Just putting it out there.

And yes, I do realize that 10 minutes is not two cents.

It is very Tolerant as long as you are Muslim. Ask a christian living in Iran how tolerant they are of them, or a gay person in Saudi?

They tolerate the things they want to tolerate and are intolerant of those things they do not want to Tolerate.

Kinda like close-minded right-wing Christians, right?

i guess that makes it ok then.....

 

[John52]

This.

See, this is the kind of right-wing propaganda that I'm sick of hearing. I just so happen to have a few friends who are of Islamic descent. Never have I once heard them discuss something of the likes of, "PRAISE BE WITH ALLAH AND HIS PROPHET MOHAMMAD! LET'S GO BLOW UP SOME INFIDEL-INHABITED CITIES AND SPREAD THE WORD OF ISLAM AROUND THE GLOBE!!"

Do you really think that the few "friends of Islamic descent" that you might have are representative of Islam as a whole? Do you really think they would share thoughts like that with you if they (or their family)had them? Do you think that your limited experience outweighs that of people like myself that have been immersed in their culture firsthand for extended periods?

You never heard your teenage friends say those things, so therefore any evidence to the contrary must be propaganda? Seriously? I have watched people literally murder each other by the dozens because one is Sunni and the other Shia, much less an infidel. I have seen guys beat women senseless with both fists and weapons for having the "nerve" to wave at an American male. I have seen people murder their own daughters/sisters/nieces/etc in the name of "honor" because they were victims of rape. I have been places where there were open bounties on anyone Jewish. All that is just scratching the surface of things I have seen muslims do in the name of their religion and culture.

Mo the Americanized muslim you go to school with is nothing like someone raised in a strict muslim culture. You are sick of hearing it because you are a kid that doesn't know fuck all about the world and it hurts your feelings that people don't see how wonderful your friends are. You think you are being open minded and mature but in reality your ignorance is showing.

The way they systemically treat women, non-muslims, and generally anyone weaker than them is absolutely disgusting. It is a culture of exploitation. Not all muslims are bad people, I have personally known many who were not, but they are the minority. They are good people in spite of Islam not because of it, and most of them wish for the chance to leave for America or Europe.

 

[daveman]

I could reply with examples of Christian intolerance and brutality, but to what end? Do you seek to justify intolerance by more intolerance, hatred, by more hatred? I think we all know where this leads.

Listen all! This is the truth of it. Fighting leads to killing, and killing gets to warring. And that was damn near the death of us all. Look at us now! Busted up, and everyone talking about hard rain! But we've learned, by the dust of them all... Bartertown learned. Now, when men get to fighting, it happens here! And it finishes here! Two men enter; one man leaves.

 

[daveman]

Great job of spreading a little religious hatred around the Internet. You might convince a few sick bastards to burn a mosque or kill a few innocent people; a damn good way to bring the terrorist dreams to reality. It only takes one match in the right place to start a forest fire.

Hmmm. Some Muslims are intolerant and violent; it's PaleRider's fault.

 

[daveman]

This.

See, this is the kind of right-wing propaganda that I'm sick of hearing. I just so happen to have a few friends who are of Islamic descent. Never have I once heard them discuss something of the likes of, "PRAISE BE WITH ALLAH AND HIS PROPHET MOHAMMAD! LET'S GO BLOW UP SOME INFIDEL-INHABITED CITIES AND SPREAD THE WORD OF ISLAM AROUND THE GLOBE!!"

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician - Yahoo! News

Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) – A well-known Australian Muslim cleric has called for the beheading of Dutch anti-Islamic politician Geert Wilders, a newspaper said on Friday.

--

De Telegraaf, the Netherlands' largest newspaper, led its front page on Friday with a story on the speech by Feiz Muhammad.

The Sydney-born Muhammad has gained notoriety for, among other things, calling on young children to be radicalized and blaming rape victims for their own attacks.​

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

See, this is the kind of right-wing propaganda that I'm sick of hearing. I just so happen to have a few friends who are of Islamic descent. Never have I once heard them discuss something of the likes of, "PRAISE BE WITH ALLAH AND HIS PROPHET MOHAMMAD! LET'S GO BLOW UP SOME INFIDEL-INHABITED CITIES AND SPREAD THE WORD OF ISLAM AROUND THE GLOBE!!"

You do not have any friends who are muslims.
There is no such thing as Islamic descent.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Abrogation does not apply to anything but the Qur'an? Does that mean that Allah is the only person that is ever wrong?

You stated that this came from the "first surah," which I found funny. And thank you for demonstrating that the concept of nasikh and mansukh is above your level of comprehension.

It still comes down to when Muhammad said this, and what he said after. Even if it is not the Qur'an, it can still be abrogated by something he said later.

Can you show me the hadith in which he (SAWS) indicates that this has been "abrogated"?

Abrogation is not as complicated as you would like to think Ibn Hazm the author of an-Nasikh wal-Mansukh,states that there are 114 verses that speak of tolerance in early Islam, but all were abrogated by one verse, "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them" (Q. 9:5)

Ibn Hazm jurist and theologian.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Abrogation does not apply to anything but the Qur'an? Does that mean that Allah is the only person that is ever wrong?

You stated that this came from the "first surah," which I found funny. And thank you for demonstrating that the concept of nasikh and mansukh is above your level of comprehension.

It still comes down to when Muhammad said this, and what he said after. Even if it is not the Qur'an, it can still be abrogated by something he said later.

Can you show me the hadith in which he (SAWS) indicates that this has been "abrogated"?

Abrogation is not as complicated as you would like to think Ibn Hazm the author of an-Nasikh wal-Mansukh,states that there are 114 verses that speak of tolerance in early Islam, but all were abrogated by one verse, "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them" (Q. 9:5)

Ibn Hazm jurist and theologian.

Does that one work for you Kalam?

I am not an Islamic scholar, so I leave it to Islamic scholars to abrogate the Qur'an. I just mock those that claim it doesn't happen.

 

[SW2SILVER]

Funny thing about tolerance, Islam ISN'T tolerant. Osama bin ladin was offended by the presence of American bases in Saudi Arabia in 1990 during the first war in Iraq. Please, non Muslims offended them? WOW. They launch a holy war against America as a result? So, put That in perspective, They hate the west and free thought. I think, personally, Islam is a glorified hate group, not a religion. They are little better than the KKK or NAZIS. They don the robes of the holy devout. They are intolerant, they sanction mass murder. I don't think the founding fathers had ISALM in mind when they wrote about freedom of religion. Let’s think about amending the constitution to fit modern times.