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You won't hear it from me. My goal is not to start a religious war.I could reply with examples of Christian intolerance and brutality, but to what end? Do you seek to justify intolerance by more intolerance, hatred, by more hatred? I think we all know where this leads.
I can't wait to hear like stories of Christian brutality.
You won't hear it from me. My goal is not to start a religious war.
We wont hear it from you because you are incapable of providing "like stories of Christian brutality". Your response was a complete and utter cop out, but you already knew that. Your debating skills are seriously lacking.
99.9% of the stories of Christian Brutality you find, will be well in the past. For example you will find no Countries on earth currently. That Proclaim to be Majority Christian, and KILL people who are not Christian as a practice. You will find No Christian Nation in the world today that KILLS homosexuals just for being so. You will find No Christian Nation that allows the stoning to death of A women On the word of her husband that she may have talked to another man.
You will find many Muslim Nations that do that. I suggest you look at How Sharia, Which Governs Almost all Majority Muslim Nations is applied in Actual Practice, and stop listening to One so called Moderate Muslim Imam who says he sees Sharia as something different than it is in Practice in every country it is practiced in. A system of Oppression of women and minority Religions.
Sharia is the real evil of Modern Islam. Radical Terrorist pale in comparison to it's capacity to Oppress and kill the innocent.
Yet you would have everyone believe that whatever opinion you present is representative of "true Islam". Never mind that you're a kafir outsider who lacks the intellectual capability and the knowledge of Islam to distinguish between what is true and what is not.Not all muslims agree with Suyuti.
Nor are they required to.
More has happened to me over the past year than your deficient brain could ever hope to process. This discussion is not about me and your repeated attempts to make it so underscore your posts' utter lack of substance."5" a number you insisted was "0"
Your used to say that you could not understand how any true muslim could believe in the concept of internal abrogation.
Now you argue against that which you insisted was true.
Sorry, kafir; reading internet articles and a few books in translation does not qualify you to speak with authority about Islam. Not a single Muslim has posted here whose knowledge of Islam doesn't exceed your shallow understanding by leaps and bounds.
In circles of educated Muslims, the amateurish scholarship of propaganda-spewing Saudi shills is subjected to a large amount of ridicule. Nonetheless, it seems to confirm some of your preconceptions and you act as if it has some sort of basis in fact in the vain hope that unthinking morons will give credence to your ridiculous, broad-brush portrayal of Islam. Nobody who can think independently is impressed.
Produce a hadith that specifically confirms that this ayah is "abrogated."More conformation 2:256 was abrogated at the time of Mohammads life
Something centuries of scholarship can do nothing about.
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.'
Unimpressive.
"It refers to fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not refer to those who have a covenant with us with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant." - Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu al-Fatawa 19/20
Just a last word before I unsubscribe this thread. Apparently, I hit real pay dirt with my comments or I wouldn't be reading such venomous posts. I leave you with this to rave and rant to your heart's content.
"You have two qualities which God, the Most Exalted, likes and loves. One is mildness and the other is toleration." Prophet Muhammad: Riyadh us-Saleheen Volume 1:632
Wouldn't it be something if muslims lived by that scripture.
Yet you would have everyone believe that whatever opinion you present is representative of "true Islam". Never mind that you're a kafir outsider who lacks the intellectual capability and the knowledge of Islam to distinguish between what is true and what is not.Not all muslims agree with Suyuti.
Nor are they required to.
More has happened to me over the past year than your deficient brain could ever hope to process. This discussion is not about me and your repeated attempts to make it so underscore your posts' utter lack of substance.
Sorry, kafir; reading internet articles and a few books in translation does not qualify you to speak with authority about Islam. Not a single Muslim has posted here whose knowledge of Islam doesn't exceed your shallow understanding by leaps and bounds.
In circles of educated Muslims, the amateurish scholarship of propaganda-spewing Saudi shills is subjected to a large amount of ridicule. Nonetheless, it seems to confirm some of your preconceptions and you act as if it has some sort of basis in fact in the vain hope that unthinking morons will give credence to your ridiculous, broad-brush portrayal of Islam. Nobody who can think independently is impressed.
Produce a hadith that specifically confirms that this ayah is "abrogated."
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.'
Unimpressive.
"It refers to fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not refer to those who have a covenant with us with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant." - Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu al-Fatawa 19/20
Well you just prove to me something that I already know. The Koran is just like the Bible, it's full of contradictions and that Muslims are just as much idiotic as Christians and Jews.
Listen all! This is the truth of it. Fighting leads to killing, and killing gets to warring. And that was damn near the death of us all. Look at us now! Busted up, and everyone talking about hard rain! But we've learned, by the dust of them all... Bartertown learned. Now, when men get to fighting, it happens here! And it finishes here! Two men enter; one man leaves.I could reply with examples of Christian intolerance and brutality, but to what end? Do you seek to justify intolerance by more intolerance, hatred, by more hatred? I think we all know where this leads.
Speaking of history, I love this part.
The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291.
Can you explain to me why anyone felt it was necessary to restore anything if those Muslims were so peaceful that they never bothered to take it away in the first place?
Yet you would have everyone believe that whatever opinion you present is representative of "true Islam". Never mind that you're a kafir outsider who lacks the intellectual capability and the knowledge of Islam to distinguish between what is true and what is not.Not all muslims agree with Suyuti.
Nor are they required to.
More has happened to me over the past year than your deficient brain could ever hope to process. This discussion is not about me and your repeated attempts to make it so underscore your posts' utter lack of substance."5" a number you insisted was "0"
Your used to say that you could not understand how any true muslim could believe in the concept of internal abrogation.
Now you argue against that which you insisted was true.
Sorry, kafir; reading internet articles and a few books in translation does not qualify you to speak with authority about Islam. Not a single Muslim has posted here whose knowledge of Islam doesn't exceed your shallow understanding by leaps and bounds.
Yet you would have everyone believe that whatever opinion you present is representative of "true Islam". Never mind that you're a kafir outsider who lacks the intellectual capability and the knowledge of Islam to distinguish between what is true and what is not.
More has happened to me over the past year than your deficient brain could ever hope to process. This discussion is not about me and your repeated attempts to make it so underscore your posts' utter lack of substance.
Sorry, kafir; reading internet articles and a few books in translation does not qualify you to speak with authority about Islam. Not a single Muslim has posted here whose knowledge of Islam doesn't exceed your shallow understanding by leaps and bounds.
In circles of educated Muslims, the amateurish scholarship of propaganda-spewing Saudi shills is subjected to a large amount of ridicule. Nonetheless, it seems to confirm some of your preconceptions and you act as if it has some sort of basis in fact in the vain hope that unthinking morons will give credence to your ridiculous, broad-brush portrayal of Islam. Nobody who can think independently is impressed.
Produce a hadith that specifically confirms that this ayah is "abrogated."
Unimpressive.
"It refers to fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not refer to those who have a covenant with us with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant." - Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu al-Fatawa 19/20
Well you just prove to me something that I already know. The Koran is just like the Bible, it's full of contradictions and that Muslims are just as much idiotic as Christians and Jews.
We aren't only discussing the Qur'an. Thanks, though; you validated my perception that many nontheists are unthinking assholes who incorrectly assume that they're more intelligent than believers. Now go play in traffic.
About Islam? Of course not.Really ?
Can a non muslim possess greater knowledge than a muslim?
Please produce the unequivocal scripture.
You have failed to provide hadith-based evidence that the specific passages you consider mansukh were actually "abrogated." You rarely provide any evidence beyond vague or misquoted passages that you twist in such a manner that they appear to support your position.Yeah I do that ,
Over the course of a year I embraced Sunnism. I'm in the midst of a comprehensive study of scripture and Islamic history and will not hesitate to rectify my beliefs if they're out of line with the clear teachings of Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAWS).and over time, you change your opinion.
I dont recall ever calling you a fool.You have failed to provide hadith-based evidence that the specific passages you consider mansukh were actually "abrogated." You rarely provide any evidence beyond vague or misquoted passages that you twist in such a manner that they appear to support your position.Yeah I do that ,
Over the course of a year I embraced Sunnism. I'm in the midst of a comprehensive study of scripture and Islamic history and will not hesitate to rectify my beliefs if they're out of line with the clear teachings of Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAWS).and over time, you change your opinion.
A person who refuses to change his beliefs when the evidence is overwhelmingly against him is a dishonest fool. You'd benefit from reflecting on those words.
I dont recall ever calling you a fool.You have failed to provide hadith-based evidence that the specific passages you consider mansukh were actually "abrogated." You rarely provide any evidence beyond vague or misquoted passages that you twist in such a manner that they appear to support your position.Yeah I do that ,
Over the course of a year I embraced Sunnism. I'm in the midst of a comprehensive study of scripture and Islamic history and will not hesitate to rectify my beliefs if they're out of line with the clear teachings of Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAWS).and over time, you change your opinion.
A person who refuses to change his beliefs when the evidence is overwhelmingly against him is a dishonest fool. You'd benefit from reflecting on those words.
I presented ample evidence to show you where on the wrong path.
I just said, and have always just show the path.
You finally saw things my way .
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2698504-post83.html
You always return to my facts because as far as Islam goes.
I have the facts.
the same sentiment is reflected in the quran
8:39
\
and 2:193
You just go along and keep saying I misunderstand Islam Ok?
In time your opinion will change again ,
then you will be a believer
The kind of believer they talk about in the Quran.
About Islam? Of course not.Really ?
Can a non muslim possess greater knowledge than a muslim?
Well I feel a lot better about that.
You're mistaken if you think that your barely-coherent ramblings had anything to do with any change in my beliefs. You are ignorant and arrogant beyond belief. You don't have the "facts", fool, and you've always been incorrect about abrogation. You don't understand it. You attempt to use it as to justify your choice to ignore certain teachings in the Qur'an.
.END BELIEVERS ALWAYS MISUNDERSTAND ISLAM THE SAME WAY
SOON YOU WILL JOIN THEM.
Just a last word before I unsubscribe this thread. Apparently, I hit real pay dirt with my comments or I wouldn't be reading such venomous posts. I leave you with this to rave and rant to your heart's content.
"You have two qualities which God, the Most Exalted, likes and loves. One is mildness and the other is toleration." Prophet Muhammad: Riyadh us-Saleheen Volume 1:632
Wouldn't it be something if muslims lived by that scripture.
It will be something that ANYBODY live by those useless words in Bible, Koran, Torah, whatever...
About Islam? Of course not.Really ?
Can a non muslim possess greater knowledge than a muslim?
True, but an outsider will see things that someone on the inside will miss out. They will spot the contradictions and bullshits that the insider is so used to. This does not only apply to Islam, but to a lot of things as well.
