Muslims

[Truthmatters]

kathy what about this is me losing?

Gunny seems to be a reasonable guy who just admitted that the eveidence I presented shows the Iraqis WANT to start a timetable for our withdrawl.

They want an immediate freezing of troop levels.

Why are you now coming in and saying Im losing something?

You see bothme and Gunny are winning here.

We are a having a rational agreement and meeeting on the facts.

This is what Americans need to do if we want to be a strong and Free country.

Now ask yourself what is it you really want to gain here?

 

[Annie]

kathy what about this is me losing?

Gunny seems to be a reasonable guy who just admitted that the eveidence I presented shows the Iraqis WANT to start a timetable for our withdrawl.

They want an immediate freezing of troop levels.

Why are you now coming in and saying Im losing something?

You see bothme and Gunny are winning here.

We are a having a rational agreement and meeeting on the facts.

This is what Americans need to do if we want to be a strong and Free country.

Now ask yourself what is it you really want to gain here?

I said 'losing' where?

 

[Truthmatters]

Who is 'you'? Where did anyone say they hate you, democrats, or anyone else?

It seems to me that you are setting up a false premise, in a failed attempt to 'win' an argument.

Kathy Please my new friend , a failed attempt to win an arguement is practically the dictionary definition of losing.

 

[Annie]

Kathy Please my new friend , a failed attempt to win an arguement is practically the dictionary definition of losing.

A false premise is not necessarily the same as a failed attempt. Sigh

 

[Truthmatters]

you used both to discribe my efforts

 

[Annie]

you used both to discribe my efforts

It seems you cannot understand, never mind.

 

[Bern80]

Just to reiterate as it seems to be even more true within the last few posts.

that's not an insult. It's an observation. I'm sure you believe you are right as much as I believe am yet I am the one who is suppossed to dig deep and you of course are the one who is obviously right

 

[Truthmatters]

it seems you gave up once you realised you didnt want to discuss what swas really at hand?

what do you think about the the Iraqi peoples desire to have troop freezes and timetables for withdrawl?

 

[Bern80]

it seems you gave up once you realised you didnt want to discuss what swas really at hand?

what do you think about the the Iraqi peoples desire to have troop freezes and timetables for withdrawl?

No, I was simply pointing out that if demand introspection as to the validity of one's own belief, it is only fair that you do the same for yourself. Thus far you have not shown that.

As for the troop withdrawl. It depends on many things. Specifically who is asking us to leave. The Shiites? The Sunnis? As has been observed, we are in the middle of sectarian war between a groups of people essentailly trying to fill the void of Saddam. So ask yourself who has the most to gain by our departure. Simply whichever group will have the easiest time opressing the other and taking over. That doesn't seem like a real good reason to leave to me and I doubt they are telling us to leave because they would just as soon fight it out without our interference.

P.S. Please use the quote feature so we know who you are actually replying to.

 

[Gunny]

That is why you cannot be a fair judge of anything the Dems do or sugest.

You hate them, you hate me and I and they are your fellow Americans.

You impune my motivations as if I and they have no right to disagree with your ideas.

I just gave you solid reasons why the Majority of Americans want put of Iraq and all you can do is imply BAD motives to it.

Why ,why do you think our motives are not the solid sensible ones I gave?

Why do you so desperately want to see your fellow Americans as evil?

Horsefeathers. I don't hate liberals, Democrats, nor you. My entire family is liberal, so get over yourself and your baseless assumptions.

You have EVERY right to disagree me. I in turn have EVERY right to disagree with you, to include your reasoning for disagreeing with me. Do you SEE the endless circle this can go in?

Don't misrepresent my disagreement with you as saying you have no right to disagree.

The appeal to emotionalism and attempting to portray yourself and other liberals as victims is hogwash. You can be "my fellow American," or my best drinking buddy and I STILL reserve the right to disagree with you, adn think for myself rather than having someone do it for me.

The Democrats tried to shove timelines up the President's nose attempting to flex their muscle and dictate foreign policy and the conduct of Iraq. It's obvious, and it's wrong.

 

[Gunny]

No, I was simply pointing out that if demand introspection as to the validity of one's own belief, it is only fair that you do the same for yourself. Thus far you have not shown that.

As for the troop withdrawl. It depends on many things. Specifically who is asking us to leave. The Shiites? The Sunnis? As has been observed, we are in the middle of sectarian war between a groups of people essentailly trying to fill the void of Saddam. So ask yourself who has the most to gain by our departure. Simply whichever group will have the easiest time opressing the other and taking over. That doesn't seem like a real good reason to leave to me and I doubt they are telling us to leave because they would just as soon fight it out without our interference.

P.S. Please use the quote feature so we know who you are actually replying to.

He's misrepresenting what is being stated. The Iraqi government wishes to set a timeline for the gradual withdrawal of US forces and replacement with Iraq gov't forces. You know ... the ultimate goal we have ALWAYS had?

He's acting like some Iraqi's want to toss us out on on ear tomorrow.

 

[Rosotar]

He's misrepresenting what is being stated. The Iraqi government wishes to set a timeline for the gradual withdrawal of US forces and replacement with Iraq gov't forces. You know ... the ultimate goal we have ALWAYS had? .

That's odd. When Democrats ask for the same things the Bushies and the cons scream bloody murder and call them mean names like "traitors" and "defeatocrats."

You guys should really try to get a handle on your propaganda because your talking points don't seem to be getting through to the Iraqis.

Maybe we need a FOX News Iraqi bureau over there!

He's acting like some Iraqi's want to toss us out on on ear tomorrow.

Actually they probably would have tossed us out on our ear yesterday if they were really allowed to make their own decisions.

 

[Gunny]

That's odd. When Democrats ask for the same things the Bushies and the cons scream bloody murder and call them mean names like "traitors" and "defeatocrats."

You guys should really try to get a handle on your propaganda because your talking points don't seem to be getting through to the Iraqis.

Maybe we need a FOX News Iraqi bureau over there!



Actually they probably would have tossed us out on our ear yesterday if they were really allowed to make their own decisions.

As previously stated, there is a BIG difference between the Iraqi's setting their own deadline, and Dem's setting an arbitrary one to suit their political agenda. Because you failed to acknowledge this fact the first time I said it makes it no less so.

The Iraqi's DO make their own decisions. Claiming otherwise is BS. The Iraqi government can't afford for us to leave right now. Simple as that. Any speculation otherwise is just that.

 

[liberalogic]

You cannot negotiate with a snake. You kill it or bites you. Wishful thinking otherwise changes that not one bit.

You might want to quit basing your entire argument on the notion that others (me in this case) just don't have quite the intellectual lock on the topic that you do. You ain't smarter than the average bear, and there really ISN'T anything new under the sun.

While it would require labotomies all around to get militant Islamic fundies to negotiate -- a highly unlikey event -- abandoning the tactics of fighting an enemy with shackles on could EASILY defeat that enemy by force.

Goddamit...I've never ever ever said I was smarter than you and the "average bear." You are a martyr for anti-liberal elitism. That's fine, but please don't label me as such. I DISAGREE with you, in no way was I implying that I am intellectually superior.

 

[Gunny]

Goddamit...I've never ever ever said I was smarter than you and the "average bear." You are a martyr for anti-liberal elitism. That's fine, but please don't label me as such. I DISAGREE with you, in no way was I implying that I am intellectually superior.

Dude, lay off the sauce. I'm a martyr for no one. There's no self-sacrifice involved in turning you into a casualty of your own blind partisanship and ignorance. Matter of fact, you've done an exemplary job of doing yourself in. Don't get made at me for it.

 

[Truthmatters]

Horsefeathers. I don't hate liberals, Democrats, nor you. My entire family is liberal, so get over yourself and your baseless assumptions.

You have EVERY right to disagree me. I in turn have EVERY right to disagree with you, to include your reasoning for disagreeing with me. Do you SEE the endless circle this can go in?

Don't misrepresent my disagreement with you as saying you have no right to disagree.

The appeal to emotionalism and attempting to portray yourself and other liberals as victims is hogwash. You can be "my fellow American," or my best drinking buddy and I STILL reserve the right to disagree with you, adn think for myself rather than having someone do it for me.

The Democrats tried to shove timelines up the President's nose attempting to flex their muscle and dictate foreign policy and the conduct of Iraq. It's obvious, and it's wrong.

Yes the Dems were and are trying to dictate foriegn policy , Its what their constituients sent them to congress to do.

This last election and the current countries thought is that this war was force feed to us on the illusion that Iraq and 911 was tied together.

Over 70 % of america thought they were and to this day a substancial % of Rs still think that.

All the studies and reports have said there were none.

It is perfectly understandable for a country to stop a rouge president who has Lied to them and spilled American blood for the lie.

The majority of Americans aslo now understand that this is a war which is unwinable with troops.

BTW I dont hate you either but I have to admit I hate liars and to me saying someone is Lying about their motivations on such Important issues is tantamount to saying you hate them.

Sorry I jumped to that conclusion with you.

 

[Gunny]

Yes the Dems were and are trying to dictate foriegn policy , Its what their constituients sent them to congress to do.

Congress attempting to dictate foreign policy is in DIRECT contradiction to the US Constitution, and the legal precedent set by SCOTUS ruling on the matter.

That would not only make anyone attempting to send Congression representatives to dictate foreign policy to the President ignorant, but sending their representatives to do something illegal.

This last election and the current countries thought is that this war was force feed to us on the illusion that Iraq and 911 was tied together.

That is incorrect. Such an illusion was in fact never presented.

Over 70 % of america thought they were and to this day a substancial % of Rs still think that.

Support that number with a verifiable source please.

All the studies and reports have said there were none.

You can worry about supporting this one if you manage to pull something out of your ass to support your previous statement you attempt to support with it.

It is perfectly understandable for a country to stop a rouge president who has Lied to them and spilled American blood for the lie.

Please list ALL illegal acts/crimes committed by the President, with the evidence that supports them. Then you can list all lies told by the President, and the evidence that supports them.

The majority of Americans aslo now understand that this is a war which is unwinable with troops.

The majority of Americans are being brainwashed by an unrelenting media campaign to believe such a fallacy.

BTW .... WHAT "war?"

BTW I dont hate you either but I have to admit I hate liars and to me saying someone is Lying about their motivations on such Important issues is tantamount to saying you hate them.

Sorry I jumped to that conclusion with you.

You need to take a good look at my words. Unlike you, and others who think and act like you, when I call an individual a liar -- an act which requires a conscious effort/intent to deceive -- I back it up with facts.

Calling someone a liar is NOT tantamount to hating that person. That's YOU creating your own definition that does not exist factually.

I really could care less whether or not you hate me; although, I find it rather ludicrous someone could hate words on a computer screen.

I don't lie. I have no reason to. If you want to call me a liar, knock yourself out. You'd better be able to prove it. I will not have my integrity questioned by the likes of you and I will eat your lunch if you do.

 

[maineman]

I would suggest that on 9/11/01..... nearly everyone in America was a day or two away from knowing that Osama bin Laden was responsible for 9/11.

Bush told us he would crawl into every cave, look under every rock to find him and bring him to justice.

By the late summer of 2002, the trail had grown cold. We had let him slip away from us at Tora Bora when we decided to outsource his capture to Afghan warlords who went up into the hills looking for him and came out with their pockets stuffed with bribes and shaking their heads wondering where he went.

Then, in that August, Team Bush all began giving speeches that all had the same small group of words clumped together within sentences of one another ...over and over and over again : "Al Qaeda... Saddam.... 9/11... weapons of mass destruction... gassed his own people.... mushroom clouds over American cities.... Al Qaeda... Saddam.... 9/11... weapons of mass destruction... gassed his own people.... mushroom clouds over American cities....Al Qaeda... Saddam.... 9/11... weapons of mass destruction... gassed his own people.... mushroom clouds over American cities...." ..AND NEVER ONCE SPEAKING THE NAME OF OSAMA BIN LADEN. Bush hardly ever thought of him.

Oddly enough, by January of '03, over 65% of the American people had apparently forgotten what they had all known by 9/13/01...because by January of '03, those people believed that Saddam Hussein had planned and executed 9/11. And by then, team Bush was also telling them that there was absolute certainty that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and the ability to deliver them to the eastern seaboard.

Here is a guy that a significant majority of the American people think was responsible for 9/11. Here is a guy that the president tells us WITHOUT A DOUBT has WMD's.....And what did America think of that? A terrible combination of fear.....revenge...payback.... let's go get some.... let's go invade Iraq and let's do it NOW!!!!

and ever since the truth became apparent. ever since America figured out there were no WMD's and there was no connection to 9/11.... the republican party has been tapdancing and calling anyone who disagreed with them a traitor.

They make me sick.

 

[Gunny]

I would suggest that on 9/11/01..... nearly everyone in America was a day or two away from knowing that Osama bin Laden was responsible for 9/11.

Bush told us he would crawl into every cave, look under every rock to find him and bring him to justice.

By the late summer of 2002, the trail had grown cold. We had let him slip away from us at Tora Bora when we decided to outsource his capture to Afghan warlords who went up into the hills looking for him and came out with their pockets stuffed with bribes and shaking their heads wondering where he went.

Then, in that August, Team Bush all began giving speeches that all had the same small group of words clumped together within sentences of one another ...over and over and over again : "Al Qaeda... Saddam.... 9/11... weapons of mass destruction... gassed his own people.... mushroom clouds over American cities.... Al Qaeda... Saddam.... 9/11... weapons of mass destruction... gassed his own people.... mushroom clouds over American cities....Al Qaeda... Saddam.... 9/11... weapons of mass destruction... gassed his own people.... mushroom clouds over American cities...." ..AND NEVER ONCE SPEAKING THE NAME OF OSAMA BIN LADEN. Bush hardly ever thought of him.

Oddly enough, by January of '03, over 65% of the American people had apparently forgotten what they had all known by 9/13/01...because by January of '03, those people believed that Saddam Hussein had planned and executed 9/11. And by then, team Bush was also telling them that there was absolute certainty that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and the ability to deliver them to the eastern seaboard.

I find this interesting since I never believed any such thing, nor do I know of anyone who did. Apparently, only those who didn't support invading Iraq heard it.

The fact that Saddam Hussein possessed and used chemical and bio weapons -- WMD's -- is indisputable. As far as delivery to CONUS, the words used to caveat the statements were "pursuing weapons delivery systems capable of ..."

I would also suggest that since Hussein couldn't even reliably deliver a SCUD to a point target in Israel, that anyone hearing he could do more not only wasn't listening to what was actually said, but was obviously not thinking for him/herself.

Here is a guy that a significant majority of the American people think was responsible for 9/11. Here is a guy that the president tells us WITHOUT A DOUBT has WMD's.....And what did America think of that? A terrible combination of fear.....revenge...payback.... let's go get some.... let's go invade Iraq and let's do it NOW!!!!

You're overplaying the 9/11/Hussein card, and who and how many people believed something again, I never heard stated as anything but speculation. I don't recall ONCE hearing anything other than "may have been part of." When someone says "may have been part of" and does not later produce evidence to support it, my conclusion is that he was not "part of."

and ever since the truth became apparent. ever since America figured out there were no WMD's and there was no connection to 9/11.... the republican party has been tapdancing and calling anyone who disagreed with them a traitor.

They make me sick.

First, and again, the fact that Saddam possessed and used WMDs is indisputable. Any statements that Saddam was connected to 9/11 were speculative, and/or a BIG stretch on the statement that he supported terrorists; which, is also an indisputable fact.

I will also point out, that YOU have slung the accusation/term "traitor" around quite freely yourself. I believe your use of it to be just as wrong as those who use it on you.

 

[Truthmatters]

http://tinyurl.com/yqp44x

Gunny here is an article which refers to the polls of 70% believing in 911 Sadam ties