CDZ Muslim Terrorism versus Islamopohobes

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by saveliberty, May 20, 2016.

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  1. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    This thread is about three types of hate, yes three. The first two are in the title, the third will be that which will most likely display itself in the thread. The CDZ rules state the title should not be inflammatory, this title implies two opposing positions exist. I am looking for a discussion about how to deal with the threat of terrorism in the West created by Muslim terrorists, while not allowing fear of all or a large proportion of Muslims to injure a generally free society. I am hoping we do not get a display of how opposing views on a subject let hate of the opposition get in the way of working together. Much the same as why we have hate blocking a better world outside the CDZ. I hope that is clear and folks can stay on topic.
     
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  2. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    Personally, I find Muslims as a whole to be intolerant of many basic Western thoughts. I also think excluding the average Muslim from living in the West to be repugnant. It flies in the face of Western thought. Muslim terrorists are a legitimate threat to the West, being passive about them is not a good solution. It appears some type of compromise in Western values may have to occur in order to deal with the problem. For example, after 9/11 Congress passed the Patriot Act, which in essence suspended parts of the Constitution. I would prefer some solution that is not that extreme, yet still effective. Ideas?
     
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  3. TNHarley
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    TNHarley Diamond Member

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    I don't think its repugnant. Even the FBI has said they cant properly vet them..
    What if only 5 of them are terrorists?
    5 set up in 5 different major cities. 5 bombs go off. 250 people dead.
    Im sorry, I just care more about Americans.
    Not to mention the fact that we have 50,000,000,000 other problems that we need to address. Importing more people, or possibly more problems, isn't the best ideal.
    Of course, I am not one to believe in American exceptionalism. So I see nothing wrong with focusing on us, instead of the third world. We can easily see where that has gotten us so far..
     
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  4. tyroneweaver
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    tyroneweaver Gold Member

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    Remember when Dwight Eisenhower made German towns people be paraded thru concentration camps.
    I think so called moderate muslims should be paraded thru terror sites so than can actually see what their religion is producing.
     
  5. TNHarley
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    TNHarley Diamond Member

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    While I completely understand that, a lot of innocent muslims are tormented by the terrorists as well. Muslims eat their own.
     
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  6. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    If reality had any place in America and especially on the right / conservative side, and the statistics of your likelihood to die from violence in America mattered, then you have turn your head to our armed society in which more have died from guns than all the terrorist acts combined. But fear of the other is a bogeyman and thus it must have a suit in which it can be called out and hated. Name it whatever it changes often in history.

    "A viral image says the number of Americans killed by terrorism in the last decade is 24, while the number of Americans killed by guns in the last decade is 280,024." Fact-checking a comparison of gun deaths and terrorism deaths
     
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  7. Tilly
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    Tilly Platinum Member

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    Proper vetting is an essential first step, yet both the head of the FBI and Homeland Security have said this is not possible with people coming from certain parts of the world, including Syria, for example.

    A great many of the migrants entering Europe over the last couple of years were not vetted, had no papers, or had several sets of forged papers, and they were allowed in anyway, even though Isis admitted to using the migrant crisis to flood Europe with thousands of operatives. So we'll see how that turns out.

    Another issue is that multiculturalism provides an environment in which fundamentalism can flourish unchecked and hidden from view. This approach to immigration seems to simply encourage a lack of integration and to produce divided societies where the intolerant beliefs you mention can be reinforced by likeminded people and not be as exposed to challenge as they should be.

    In the UK 23% of Muslim women speak little or no English, a complete barrier to integration, and a quarter of Muslims want some parts of the U.K. to be governed by sharia law. Over half think homosexuality should be illegal in the UK. Living in a society within a society means that such views are not successfully challenged. Add to this the fact that they can watch non stop Arabic / overseas tv / internet channels, send their kids to islamic schools, have separate Islamic centres for socialising etc etc, and it's easy to see how integration, and exposure to more tolerant views as the norm, can be kept to a minimum, if desired, and even if it isn't particularly.

    And no doubt this approach provides a great environment for the Isis terrorists we've welcomed into Europe to remain under the radar, and also fosters the 'them and us' attitude that plays a role in yet more radicalisation of the young. The recent ICM poll also found that 66% of UK Muslims would not inform the authorities if someone close to them had become involved with terrorist sympathisers, ie those likely at the beginning of the process of their radicalisation.

    Also, the vast majority of people entering Europe during the migrant crisis have been fighting age angry males. Under the auspices of multiculturalism, these young men will inevitably find themselves in areas where there are high concentrations of Muslims, many of whom are not well integrated in the first place. Not very sensible, IMHO.

    Multiculturalism, IMHO, has led to the development of what Trevor Phillips (commenting on the recent ICM poll on UK Muslims) calls a "‘chasm’ and that this has developed "between the attitudes of many British Muslims and their compatriots, driven by their adherence to their faith."

    What to do? IDK. Phillips has outlined a strategy he thinks would be successful, I'll post more on that later, assuming the thread remains civil :) but basically it seems to consist of dismantling the infrastructure of multiculturalism to some degree (for which the champion of the term islamophobia in the UK has been vilified - as an islamophobe - of course. Oh the irony :) ).

    ICM Unlimited | ICM Muslims survey for Channel 4
     
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    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  8. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    Your numbers are a bit light midcan5, I count at least 35 since 2010 and I know I missed a few. Then there are almost 3,000 on 9/11. That aside, your other referenced number is still up there.

    A rarely seen possibility is we are doing exactly what we need to do already. Perhaps the cost, lives saved benefit is in balance. Much like gang violence, we can't seem to end it but keep it in relative check, with flare ups occasionally.
     
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  9. Sunni Man
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    Sunni Man Diamond Member

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    This should be interesting........ :popcorn:
     
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  10. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    There are a large number of military personal giving their lives for the cause too. Isolationism or world's policeman comes into play here also.
     
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