Opera aficionados per favore! Serious thread here..... Caruso versus Gigli....Una Furtiva lagrima

[justoffal]

One of my favorite hobbies...Alright my definite favorite hobby is comparing vocalists on popular music pieces to see which one I think translates the music better for me at least.

Recently I was most grateful to have Hellbilly's help on the comparison of Merry Clayton Versus LIsa Fischer ( I don't even like to use the word Versus it's not the right one but for lack of a better one) on the long enduring counter culture piece GIMME SHELTER... where the female vocalist basically contributes the most important sounds in the piece.

After some thoughtful back and forth we decided on Merry Clayton....but had to admit tha Lisa Fischer is also just amazing!

Ok I need help....Lisa Fischer or Merry Clayton?

Arguably, one of the most important pieces of counter culture music in the last century was the work by The rolling Stones GIMME SHELTER. It's fair to say that it has reached iconic levels as a part of look back history in the turmoil ridden 60s 70s and 80s. There are several versions of the...

www.usmessageboard.com

For the past two weeks I have been going back an forth between Caruso remastered and Gigli.....notably two of the greatest ever who can both hold the GOAT title....but still....I wanted to see which one interpreted the music for me in a way that I preferred....this doesn't mean better by any means but each person has a certain quality that they look for in a music or vocal piece.

Now Caruso I think was dead before Gigli began his career so I had to select a piece that I consider to be second grade for voice comparison. I wish Caruso had been around to do Nessun Dorma....something tells me he would have defined it once and for all time...but alas it was not composed before his demise.

Having said that I selected what I considered to be a fairly versatile piece Una furtiva Lagrima.... ( A furtive tear) because it requires range, depth and massive lung power in some places to complete the notes and so here we go:








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[1srelluc]

This is as close as I can get to opera.



Pretty cool seeing the sausage being made for this:



Just tossing this one in:

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

One of my favorite hobbies...Alright my definite favorite hobby is comparing vocalists on popular music pieces to see which one I think translates the music better for me at least.

Recently I was most grateful to have Hellbilly's help on the comparison of Merry Clayton Versus LIsa Fischer ( I don't even like to use the word Versus it's not the right one but for lack of a better one) on the long enduring counter culture piece GIMME SHELTER... where the female vocalist basically contributes the most important sounds in the piece.

After some thoughtful back and forth we decided on Merry Clayton....but had to admit tha Lisa Fischer is also just amazing!

Ok I need help....Lisa Fischer or Merry Clayton?

Arguably, one of the most important pieces of counter culture music in the last century was the work by The rolling Stones GIMME SHELTER. It's fair to say that it has reached iconic levels as a part of look back history in the turmoil ridden 60s 70s and 80s. There are several versions of the...

www.usmessageboard.com

For the past two weeks I have been going back an forth between Caruso remastered and Gigli.....notably two of the greatest ever who can both hold the GOAT title....but still....I wanted to see which one interpreted the music for me in a way that I preferred....this doesn't mean better by any means but each person has a certain quality that they look for in a music or vocal piece.

Now Caruso I think was dead before Gigli began his career so I had to select a piece that I consider to be second grade for voice comparison. I wish Caruso had been around to do Nessun Dorma....something tells me he would have defined it once and for all time...but alas it was not composed before his demise.

Having said that I selected what I considered to be a fairly versatile piece Una furtiva Lagrima.... ( A furtive tear) because it requires range, depth and massive lung power in some places to complete the notes and so here we go:








'

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I'm certainly not anything near qualified. My late husband was an operatic tenor who sang in the chorus of a major company for 20 years, and even he could never explain adequately why he said this, but he said I had a good natural ear.

I'm a language geek and I think I like Caruso's enunciation. Beyond that, I don't know. Hubby was a Caruso lover, even though I can't say that has anything to do with my reason for my opinion, because hubby enunciated poorly. I tried to teach him to properly enunciate "La Fleur" (Carmen) in French and just frustrated the shit out of both of us. I was too nerdy. He just wanted to make the notes without having to make the words. I wanted to smack him!

Like I said, I certainly am not in any way qualified. Caruso held my attention whereas Gigli just didn't.

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[justoffal]

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I'm certainly not anything near qualified. My late husband was an operatic tenor who sang in the chorus of a major company for 20 years, and even he could never explain adequately why he said this, but he said I had a good natural ear.

I'm a language geek and I think I like Caruso's enunciation. Beyond that, I don't know. Hubby was a Caruso lover, even though I can't say that has anything to do with my reason for my opinion, because hubby enunciated poorly. I tried to teach him to properly enunciate "La Fleur" (Carmen) in French and just frustrated the shit out of both of us. I was too nerdy. He just wanted to make the notes without having to make the words. I wanted to smack him!

Like I said, I certainly am not in any way qualified. Caruso held my attention whereas Gigli just didn't.

.

Ahhh.... What a fascinating and interesting comment! Yes Caruso was technically perfect on the enunciations. That has been attributed to the extreme power of his voice and the fact that he could do effortlessly what other singers had to strain to accomplish. So when it came to details like enunciation he didn't really have to concentrate too much on it to get it right.

Gigli likewise had an extremely powerful voice but a somewhat different pitch that many people describe as a crying voice. I happen to like that quality.... Very few vocalists have that particular asset in their repertoire of talents.

So yes I think you quite accurately noted that Caruso has some technical superiority here.
When it comes to voice quality both of these guys are out of this world.

I'm leaning in favor of Caruso on The voice quality but in favor of Gigli on sheer passion captured by the vocalized notes. It's a close contest for sure.

 

[Blaster]

 

[justoffal]

WOW!..... AMAZING....yes I have followed Lanza from time to time. First time I heard that one. The final note is extraordinary no doubt about it!

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

AWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!! My hubby LOVED Lanza! "Be My Love" was one of hubby's favorites and I think he did it well.

Wish I had some recordings of hubby singing but, alas. We didn't have all these devices when he was doing most of his singing.

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[justoffal]

AWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!! My hubby LOVED Lanza! "Be My Love" was one of hubby's favorites and I think he did it well.

Wish I had some recordings of hubby singing but, alas. We didn't have all these devices when he was doing most of his singing.

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Corelli deserves some notice here too. For some reason I never could get into Pavoratti...powerful...maybe too powerful?

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Ahhh.... What a fascinating and interesting comment! Yes Caruso was technically perfect on the enunciations. That has been attributed to the extreme power of his voice and the fact that he could do effortlessly what other singers had to strain to accomplish. So when it came to details like enunciation he didn't really have to concentrate too much on it to get it right.

Gigli likewise had an extremely powerful voice but a somewhat different pitch that many people describe as a crying voice. I happen to like that quality.... Very few vocalists have that particular asset in their repertoire of talents.

So yes I think you quite accurately noted that Caruso has some technical superiority here.
When it comes to voice quality both of these guys are out of this world.

I'm leaning in favor of Caruso on The voice quality but in favor of Gigli on sheer passion captured by the vocalized notes. It's a close contest for sure.

.

I think that this explains why I am a bigger fan of Domingo than I am of Pavarotti. Pavarotti always used the emotion in his voice well but often seemed to struggle to accomplish the effortless ease with which Domingo simply sang. Does that make sense? And my husband was a bigger fan of Pavarotti for the same reason. He had the same kind of voice too, but he melted my knees once in a while when he achieved that quality of Domingo's voice. It's frustrating that I can't explain it -- don't have the vocabulary.

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[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Corelli deserves some notice here too. For some reason I never could get into Pavoratti...powerful...maybe too powerful?

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I'm not at all familiar with Corelli.

But yes, too powerful is just the way I'd describe Pavarotti. Although, that third "Vincero" requires that kind of power, IMHO.

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[justoffal]

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I'm not at all familiar with Corelli.

But yes, too powerful is just the way I'd describe Pavarotti. Although, that third "Vincero" requires that kind of power, IMHO.

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I would give my eye tooth to hear that piece done by Caruso. But it can never happen. Maybe AI can accomplish that...lol.

I've listened to all of the "considered to be" top eight Tenors who did that piece from Turnadot. Gigli just owns that climactic Vincero series...gives me the shivers!

So hubby.... Would you compare him more to Caruso or to Gigli in his style?

 

[justoffal]

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I think that this explains why I am a bigger fan of Domingo than I am of Pavarotti. Pavarotti always used the emotion in his voice well but often seemed to struggle to accomplish the effortless ease with which Domingo simply sang. Does that make sense? And my husband was a bigger fan of Pavarotti for the same reason. He had the same kind of voice too, but he melted my knees once in a while when he achieved that quality of Domingo's voice. It's frustrating that I can't explain it -- don't have the vocabulary.

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It's okay to coin our own words here .The language of music defies limited expressions that our Latin derivates gives us. Some have called music a language of its own. I actually believe that.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

I would give my eye tooth to hear that piece done by Caruso. But it can never happen. Maybe AI can accomplish that...lol.

I've listened to all of the "considered to be" top eight Tenors who did that piece from Turnadot. Gigli just owns that climactic Vincero series...gives me the shivers!

So hubby.... Would you compare him more to Caruso or to Gigli in his style?

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I want to say Caruso but he might even disagree with me if he were here having this conversation with us, because what he most wanted to express was that big, powerful emotionalism, which always seemed so self-conscious to me.

BTW, I just went and listened to "Nessun Dorma" from both Domingo and Corelli, and LOVED both renditions! Similar to one another in that they both seemed to find the big boominess unnecessary.

Then I listened to Gigli's and was pleased that he seemed to keep that in check! I liked it a lot. Far more than Pavarotti's. It seems to me like Pavarotti is more about selling Pavarotti, than he is about letting the music sell itself.

Hmmmm...... My first few years with hubby, we went to a lot of operas and listened to many more, and right in there was that year of the Winter Olympics when it seemed like all the male figure skaters skated to "Nessun Dorma" and it was entertaining to see them all work so hard at nailing that final sequence in a way that made visual sense.

sigh I haven't really listened to any opera since hubby passed. I think I'll go dry my eyes now.

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[justoffal]

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I want to say Caruso but he might even disagree with me if he were here having this conversation with us, because what he most wanted to express was that big, powerful emotionalism, which always seemed so self-conscious to me.

BTW, I just went and listened to "Nessun Dorma" from both Domingo and Corelli, and LOVED both renditions! Similar to one another in that they both seemed to find the big boominess unnecessary.

Then I listened to Gigli's and was pleased that he seemed to keep that in check! I liked it a lot. Far more than Pavarotti's. It seems to me like Pavarotti is more about selling Pavarotti, than he is about letting the music sell itself.

Hmmmm...... My first few years with hubby, we went to a lot of operas and listened to many more, and right in there was that year of the Winter Olympics when it seemed like all the male figure skaters skated to "Nessun Dorma" and it was entertaining to see them all work so hard at nailing that final sequence in a way that made visual sense.

sigh I haven't really listened to any opera since hubby passed. I think I'll go dry my eyes now.

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Oh dear....I am sorry to reintroduce grief.
I am quite thankful for this honest exchange though It's hard to find people who appreciate this particular art the way you and I do.

Now that I know your history I will maintain a very elevated spot for your opinion on these matters since I can count on it to be thoroughly honest.

Yes Corelli did a nice job on nessun dorma...
Similar to Gigli.... I found that the latter was able to push a tremendous amount of power into the notes without screaming them out. Yes that sense of restraint is almost magical in that last refrain. I agree with you.

God what I wouldn't give to hear those last three Vinceros done by Caruso!

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Oh dear....I am sorry to reintroduce grief.
I am quite thankful for this honest exchange though It's hard to find people who appreciate this particular art the way you and I do.
Now that I know your history I will maintain a very elevated spot for your opinion on these matters since I can count on it to be thoroughly honest.

Yes Corelli did a nice job on nessun dorma...
Similar to Gigli.... I found that the ladder was able to push a tremendous amount of power into the notes without screaming them out. Yes that sense of restraint is almost magical in that last refrain. I agree with you.

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Very well said!

"Pushing a tremendous amount of power into the notes without screaming them out".

I used to be able to visually see the effort it took for hubby to reach some notes, and Pavarotti did the same thing -- physically forcing the notes. Very distracting.



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[justoffal]

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Very well said!

"Pushing a tremendous amount of power into the notes without screaming them out".

I used to be able to visually see the effort it took for hubby to reach some notes, and Pavarotti did the same thing -- physically forcing the notes. V ery distracting.



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Oh yes....it's almost like fingernails on the black board at times with the big Pav.... Caruso, Gigli, Corelli ....it just flows out. If nothing else I think Gigli knew what his strengths were and just how to showcase them. With Caruso...I suppose it's possible that everything was his strength.

 

[Blaster]

This gal can sing.

 

[justoffal]

This gal can sing.

Yes. ..flowing ...elegant..... tantalizingly soft.

 

[sparky]

I'm no vocalist, but have backed up my share.

I'll just say it's an entire doctrine where those trained to it seem to do best....

~S~

 

[sparky]

dunno if this really belongs here.....



~S~