Let's talk about God

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Joker, in no way are you being rude. Your questions are totally valid. I struggled many years too. I think my studies of science have tremendously increased my faith. As far as the Bible I don't take it word for word or litterally either. I look at it this way; to me the nature of God's reality, in fact reality itself, is beyond the scope of Human comprehension. So things must be put in terms we can understand, much like we do with children. In the end though, since complete comprehension is impossible, we must have a roadmap to follow, hence the Bible and other religious texts.

Thanks Eric. No doubt I will someday find my comfort and make peace with
whomever. Untill that day, I look forward to more logical discussions about
religion in general. I hope you struggle will never arise again and wish the
best to you all in your journey. I would lke to study this subject more from
a scientific standpoint, maybe I'll take some theology classes.

 

[Bonnie]

Why talk about politics???
The truth is somewhere but where???
As I said earlier, I just like having an intelligent conversation.
Why do you keep telling me to refrence the Bible if I don't
believe it's true? I'm not trying to be so negative torwards anyone,
but I get the feeling that my thoughts are no longer welcomed.
Sorry if I impossed on this topic, thought I could be comfortable here.

I get what you are saying, which is why I would not start with the bible either especially revelations, to me it's what you read once you find your faith, and it's words enchance your faith.
The bible is only as good as the reader sees it to be, You are defintely not there yet.

It's very easy to look at all the horror in the world as use that as your reason to not have faith, your not the first, and you surely won't be the last.
I really don't want to get preachy because Im not crazy about that either.........that said....Why don't you just ask God for faith, and keep asking until you think you may have found an opening? It's easy and he will answer you. But just don't expect fire and brimstone, he works much more subtly, usually. Faith is just a feeling or an awakening if you look at it like that it simplifies things.
Im sure others would disagree with me as well, but it's just my opinion, from someone who has been in the same place you are now.

 

[Bonnie]

A. He doesn't do that all the time, either.

B. Because God said He wouldn't do that anymore. Genesis 8:21, "....neither will I again smite anymore every living thing, as I have done".

C. Did no one read my earlier post? HOW can you expect God to do anything? Man CHOSE to sin, Genesis 3: Therfore we must live with our decision. This treachery is not caused by God but by Lucifer, Satan, the Devil. The world was set on it's course, & it will continue to do so until the right time. Revelation 3:11, Behold I come quickly......

D. Also Genesis 3. It was God's words not man's.

E. Why can't you imagine a Judgement Day? It's coming. Revelation 20: 12, And I saw the dead, small and great stand before God:and the books were opened.......
If you do not understand the difference......I suggest you do some studying.Revelation 1:3, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written:for the time is at hand.

Joz I do agree with you mostly, and I do think the end is coming, maybe in our lifetimes, but I think that based on what I see going on, however I also believe that if enough people pray it will mitigate or hold back the Hand of God. I do think we are held accountable for our actions, and in that same spirit we change things that some think is written in stone. JMO

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Let me open your minds to why I feel so strong on this a little more.
Upon request (from the wife) I visited church 2 years ago on
Easter. As we sat and listened to the preacher I couldn’t help that my
mind had wondered off the subject. Now never in the past had I ever
questioned faith or the book, I just wasn’t dedicated to it either. Words
past now….in blurbs and sentences soon became deafening.

I began to study the room and the people about as I love to do no matter where
I am. The little old lady in the front row with her big hat and white blue hair, the
man on his knees for at least an hour, praying for his sick mother, the antsy
children waiting for mom to clap so they can escape her “loving” embrace to run
down the isle. I started to shift my focus on the church itself, very glamorous, very
large. I noticed the huge vaulted ceilings, the vast walls that seem to reach
Heaven themselves, the theatre seating, I think I even came out of my seat a
little bit to check out the seating on the lower floor. Again my focus shifted, this
time on the finer things such as the lights, the tv cameras, the stage,
and the well dressed preacher. The last thing I remember looking at that day was
the breath-taking 20 ft marble cross on the wall.

My wife tells me I stared at the cross for at least an hour, but it felt like seconds
to me. Now this is where one would probably want to call me a liar as for what
happened next could have just been my vivid imagination. The words slowly came
to me again, but not the words of the preacher. This was a voice I have never
heard, and I thought myself that I was fabricating it. I asked the voice if this was
God and I was answered with “He is not I, but known by many names.” Now I
was starting to get frightened as I tried to concentrate on the preacher but
couldn’t peel my eyes away from the cross. The rest of the conversation is not
remembered as it happened. I was awakened from my trance by my wife tugging
on my sleeve to rise for prayer.

During the drive home I explained to my wife what had happened and as she
asked me questions, I could suddenly recall what was said as if I wrote it down,
yet I still can’t remember hearing it. I was told several things regarding the way
mankind has perverted the words of our maker. The main statement that stuck in
my mind was made about the cross on the wall, I was asked if the preacher
would “take that cross off the wall and carry it for the sins of all man”. It all
revolved around the glamour and the fame of the modern day church and it’s
practices. To this day I can only answer questions about what was said, I can
never recall the conversation in its entirety.

My wife called her brother in California for advice. He has devoted his life and his
music to Christ and she wanted to know what he thought. Here Barbara was
thinking that it was The Devil yet her brother said in fear “NO….That was the
Lord”. I spoke with him about it and he told me that God has given me a mission
to spread the words that were spoken to me. I was quick to dismiss this theory
as I didn’t care for the job. He then told me not To refuse a mission from God, that
the consequences would be VERY severe!!! So since then, I have been trying to
put this together and find out what I’m supposed to do. I know you probably
don’t believe me or wouldn’t justify this for my beliefs, but I have sought advice
from several people on this and they all say to go with what feels right. That’s
why I speak the way I do about religion.

You all are welcome to tell my story, but please don't change it or publish it.
I'll be back tomorrow to chat some more.

 

[Bonnie]

I believe every word.

 

[5stringJeff]

Let me open your minds to why I feel so strong on this a little more.
Upon request (from the wife) I visited church 2 years ago on
Easter. As we sat and listened to the preacher I couldn’t help that my
mind had wondered off the subject. Now never in the past had I ever
questioned faith or the book, I just wasn’t dedicated to it either. Words
past now….in blurbs and sentences soon became deafening.

I began to study the room and the people about as I love to do no matter where
I am. The little old lady in the front row with her big hat and white blue hair, the
man on his knees for at least an hour, praying for his sick mother, the antsy
children waiting for mom to clap so they can escape her “loving” embrace to run
down the isle. I started to shift my focus on the church itself, very glamorous, very
large. I noticed the huge vaulted ceilings, the vast walls that seem to reach
Heaven themselves, the theatre seating, I think I even came out of my seat a
little bit to check out the seating on the lower floor. Again my focus shifted, this
time on the finer things such as the lights, the tv cameras, the stage,
and the well dressed preacher. The last thing I remember looking at that day was
the breath-taking 20 ft marble cross on the wall.

My wife tells me I stared at the cross for at least an hour, but it felt like seconds
to me. Now this is where one would probably want to call me a liar as for what
happened next could have just been my vivid imagination. The words slowly came
to me again, but not the words of the preacher. This was a voice I have never
heard, and I thought myself that I was fabricating it. I asked the voice if this was
God and I was answered with “He is not I, but known by many names.” Now I
was starting to get frightened as I tried to concentrate on the preacher but
couldn’t peel my eyes away from the cross. The rest of the conversation is not
remembered as it happened. I was awakened from my trance by my wife tugging
on my sleeve to rise for prayer.

During the drive home I explained to my wife what had happened and as she
asked me questions, I could suddenly recall what was said as if I wrote it down,
yet I still can’t remember hearing it. I was told several things regarding the way
mankind has perverted the words of our maker. The main statement that stuck in
my mind was made about the cross on the wall, I was asked if the preacher
would “take that cross off the wall and carry it for the sins of all man”. It all
revolved around the glamour and the fame of the modern day church and it’s
practices. To this day I can only answer questions about what was said, I can
never recall the conversation in its entirety.

My wife called her brother in California for advice. He has devoted his life and his
music to Christ and she wanted to know what he thought. Here Barbara was
thinking that it was The Devil yet her brother said in fear “NO….That was the
Lord”. I spoke with him about it and he told me that God has given me a mission
to spread the words that were spoken to me. I was quick to dismiss this theory
as I didn’t care for the job. He then told me not To refuse a mission from God, that
the consequences would be VERY severe!!! So since then, I have been trying to
put this together and find out what I’m supposed to do. I know you probably
don’t believe me or wouldn’t justify this for my beliefs, but I have sought advice
from several people on this and they all say to go with what feels right. That’s
why I speak the way I do about religion.

You all are welcome to tell my story, but please don't change it or publish it.
I'll be back tomorrow to chat some more.

Joker, that's a pretty incredible story.

And I will be the first to agree with you that some churches are extremely opulent, where they would be better spending money on helping the poor or sending people on missions.

So I understand why you are searching. I will try to answer your questions honestly, but you should know that I am coming from an evangelical Christian background.

 

[Joz]

..... her brother said in fear “NO….That was the Lord”. I spoke with him about it and he told me that God has given me a missionto spread the words that were spoken to me. I was quick to dismiss this theory
as I didn’t care for the job. He then told me not To refuse a mission from God, that the consequences would be VERY severe!!! So since then, I have been trying to put this together and find out what I’m supposed to do.

Severe, probably. But you have the choice, He won't force you. And you're trying to hard to make sense of this yourself. Why don't you ask & let HIM TELL YOU what it is He wants you to do?

 

[deaddude]

because he doesn't return my calls.

 

[Bonnie]

JB, I sincerely from the depths of my soul do not believe that message came from God. If you had a message from a divine God it would have filled you full of hope and love and inspiration, definately not fear, negativity and turmoil, that comes from the one who goes by many names and is many is legion. That one knows your vulnerabilites just as well as God does, and in my opinion he is using that to get to you, and to spread his message. I know people close to you have told you the opposite.

I had a vision in the midst of all the turmoil that was going on with my family, it was comforting, uplifting, and very clear.
I was asked a very simple question..........Do You Trust in My Father?
I knew instantly where that came from. No doubts, no fear, and no confusion! And that was life changing.

 

[Avatar4321]

JB, I sincerely from the depths of my soul do not believe that message came from God. If you had a message from a divine God it would have filled you full of hope and love and inspiration, definately not fear, negativity and turmoil, that comes from the one who goes by many names and is many is legion. That one knows your vulnerabilites just as well as God does, and in my opinion he is using that to get to you, and to spread his message. I know people close to you have told you the opposite.

I had a vision in the midst of all the turmoil that was going on with my family, it was comforting, uplifting, and very clear.
I was asked a very simple question..........Do You Trust in My Father?
I knew instantly where that came from. No doubts, no fear, and no confusion! And that was life changing.

I honestly am not sure what to think of his story but i agree that the Spirit of the Lord brings peace and happiness. I know the Lord will reveal it if He is asked but i think it would be the one who received it who needed to ask God.

Wont go into too many details of my experience. but i felt the Spirit rush over me and kind hit me over the held like i knew all the time and just realized it and it was like "Now you know the truth, are you going to live it" That experience is very vivid. but i remember the love and joy and power. I remember the glory of god. Glory is really the most descriptive way to think of it.

 

[Joz]

JB, I sincerely from the depths of my soul do not believe that message came from God. If you had a message from a divine God it would have filled you full of hope and love and inspiration, definately not fear, negativity and turmoil, that comes from the one who goes by many names and is many is legion.

So, what about Jonah? He wasn't exactly thrilled with what God asked of him. I'm not too sure that Christ was looking so forward to being nailed to a cross, either. And what about Abraham with Isaac, Daniel, Job? When we hear things like this it always makes us wonder. It really depends. But this is not our decision....it's J Bravo's.

 

[Joz]

Why do you keep telling me to refrence the Bible if I don't
believe it's true?

I'm wondering why God would choose someone like this to represent Him?

 

[MissileMan]

So most of you are saying that God has the power to change things, but doesn't have to because God already knows how things turn out, and everything turns out the way God intends?

And if something good happens to you, it's God's blessing, and if something bad happens, you are being tested?

 

[Joz]

So most of you are saying that God has the power to change things, but doesn't have to because God already knows how things turn out, and everything turns out the way God intends?

And if something good happens to you, it's God's blessing, and if something bad happens, you are being tested?

I'm not.

 

[dmp]

I don't want to disprove to anyone, not my bag.
I am trying to learn the truth which isn't available.
To me the Bible isn't proof of what I seek, although a well told story.
There are many holes in the story, to many things that don't make
sense. I have no doubt that my maker loves me....I just want to know
who that is.

holes? The bible won't tell you which kind of cell phone to buy, or if it's okay to wear purple, but as far as getting to know your maker? it's the best thing out there.

Every bit of explanation you were offered here you shot donw - at times as if you weren't even reading the replies. Open your heart...

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

The whole reason I wrote what I did is that I feel our current message
and what we see of God is not what he wants us to see. Maybe it was the
devil, maybe not. My so called faith in this matter came from words given
directly to me and not from the book. Say what you will but I think the God
you all "know" is unhappy with us and our church. I'll take my chances on
this one in hopes to get more information. I don't want to shoot down your
ideas and make it seem like I refuse to believe you but, it goes against what
I was told. To me the message was not negative, we have been taught that
this is the only way, this is God's way, we must do this to please him....
What if all that is wrong?

 

[5stringJeff]

What if all that is wrong?

Great question. I would encourage you to look at some apologetics who look at basic facts of the world and use those as a proof of Christianity. Josh McDowell's [ame=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0785243038/qid=1096641646/sr=8-3/ref=pd_csp_3/002-8263166-9451254?v=glance&s=books&n=507846]Evidence That Demands a Verdict[/ame] would be a good one to start with. Some would say that you will never be able to prove God's existence (or the truth of a particular religion) beyond doubt; while they may be correct, I think that there are plenty of reasons to believe in what we believe in.

 

[Bonnie]

The whole reason I wrote what I did is that I feel our current message
and what we see of God is not what he wants us to see. Maybe it was the
devil, maybe not. My so called faith in this matter came from words given
directly to me and not from the book. Say what you will but I think the God
you all "know" is unhappy with us and our church. I'll take my chances on
this one in hopes to get more information. I don't want to shoot down your
ideas and make it seem like I refuse to believe you but, it goes against what
I was told. To me the message was not negative, we have been taught that
this is the only way, this is God's way, we must do this to please him....
What if all that is wrong?

Which church is he unhappy with? Catholic, Evangelical, Epischopalean, Baptist, Mormons, Lutheran, Methodist or just all christains in general, and what is it specifically, the churches that have nice decorations, or the way priests, reverands, ministers are preaching the gospel?????

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Which church is he unhappy with?

Unhappy with what church has evolved to...
True purpose has been lost in most cases.

 

[Bonnie]

Unhappy with what church has evolved to...
True purpose has been lost in most cases.

And God feels his message is lost in transaltion?