Let's talk about God

[JOKER96BRAVO]

And God feels his message is lost in transaltion?

Yes

 

[Bonnie]

Yes

So you knew my next question would be, in what way is the church delivering God's message in the wrong way? Becasue I guess that's the real nitty gritty of this whole thing?

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

In the fact that the very word they go by was written by man and translated
to the point that it has been diluted. I don't have a refrence but I was once told
that each branch of the church has taken books out of or added to the original
translation of the Bilble. Example The catholics took 23 books out of the original
translation. Just what I heard.

 

[Bonnie]

Well JB, sounds like you have your work cut out for you on this, but if you know in your heart that this is your mission, then I wish you luck, and hope you get it sorted out!

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

I have had a strong feeling to start my own church but out of fear I have not.
Fear of what you ask???
Fear of the lable CULT, plus I have no direction to even lead myself in right now.
I could assume that I will be guided in the right direction, yet so many already
think the same thing. I will continue my search.

 

[Joz]

Fear of the lable CULT, plus I have no direction to even lead myself in right now.

You fear disapprovable ? Say that to Christ, his dicipiles and his many followers thru out history.
The direction you follow is the one HE leads.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

You fear disapprovable ? Say that to Christ, his dicipiles and his many followers thru out history.
The direction you follow is the one HE leads.

This is a bold step hopefully in the right direction.
I'm sure many others would like to have had more guidance as well.
If all goes well, I will not be locked in a looney bin.

 

[5stringJeff]

In the fact that the very word they go by was written by man and translated to the point that it has been diluted. I don't have a refrence but I was once told that each branch of the church has taken books out of or added to the original translation of the Bilble. Example The catholics took 23 books out of the original translation. Just what I heard.

Joker,

I can certainly understand your questions about translation. Here is my thought: we have transcripts from the early second century for parts of the Bible, and even the latest Greek transcripts we have are from the third century. So we're talking 150-200 years after the originals. First, for an ancient manuscript, the number of copies and the closeness to the original publication is unmatched. Second, the Bible has been translated into English dozens of times since about 1500, and we can see that that translations are remarkably similar. In fact, almost all the differences between English translations can be attributed to 1) the evolution of English, and 2) the method of translation (i.e. word-for-word, phrase-for phrase, or a mix of the two). So I think we can rest assured that the Bible we read today is true to the Bible that was written down for us.

Your other point is that different churches have taken only some of the books. There are two things that you could possibly be referring to: the Apochrypha and the Gnostic Gospels.
The Apocrypha is a set of 14 books that is considered Scripture by the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, but not by Protestants. However, all three branches of Christianity agree on the books in the Old Testament and the New Testament.
The Gnostic Gospels are a number of books which were purportedly written by disciples of Christ in the first century. The Gospel of Thomas is perhaps the most well-known of these. However, they have been rejected by the Church since about the fifth century for many reasons, the largest of which are that their authorship was not verified by the early church fathers, and their writings contradict the rest of Scripture.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Joker,

I can certainly understand your questions about translation. Here is my thought: we have transcripts from the early second century for parts of the Bible, and even the latest Greek transcripts we have are from the third century. So we're talking 150-200 years after the originals. First, for an ancient manuscript, the number of copies and the closeness to the original publication is unmatched. Second, the Bible has been translated into English dozens of times since about 1500, and we can see that that translations are remarkably similar. In fact, almost all the differences between English translations can be attributed to 1) the evolution of English, and 2) the method of translation (i.e. word-for-word, phrase-for phrase, or a mix of the two). So I think we can rest assured that the Bible we read today is true to the Bible that was written down for us.

Your other point is that different churches have taken only some of the books. There are two things that you could possibly be referring to: the Apochrypha and the Gnostic Gospels.
The Apocrypha is a set of 14 books that is considered Scripture by the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, but not by Protestants. However, all three branches of Christianity agree on the books in the Old Testament and the New Testament.
The Gnostic Gospels are a number of books which were purportedly written by disciples of Christ in the first century. The Gospel of Thomas is perhaps the most well-known of these. However, they have been rejected by the Church since about the fifth century for many reasons, the largest of which are that their authorship was not verified by the early church fathers, and their writings contradict the rest of Scripture.

So maybe the original version written in hebrew was misinterpreted.
A lie can get half way around the world before the truth even has a chance to put
its pants on!

 

[5stringJeff]

So maybe the original version written in hebrew was misinterpreted.
A lie can get half way around the world before the truth even has a chance to put
its pants on!

The Dead Sea Scrolls confirm the reliability of the Old Testament (written in Hebrew).

But if you are set on disbelieving, no amount of evidence can change your mind...

 

[dmp]

So maybe the original version written in hebrew was misinterpreted.
A lie can get half way around the world before the truth even has a chance to put
its pants on!

dude - you are really reaching. You cannot believe in God because you won't until EVERY question you have has been 100% proven to you. I hope you don't require that proof in every aspect of life. Could make things pretty miserable. How rational is it to expect texts written thousands of years apart, by multiple authors to exist in such harmony as does the Bible we have today? My friend, you don't want God to be proven to you - you don't WANT to believe. I get the sense you like the place you are spiritually; it's as if God has blessed you with an excuse NOT to believe the Bible, and what It tells us about life. Make no mistake, God is INDEED bigger than what we have in his Word. It's still not an excuse to declare his Word invalid.

Do you know why I believe in God? Do you know why I place my faith in Jesus and what he told us?

I have witnessed first hand the power of God's love. The touch of Christ's hand. I've seen wretched humans become loving and generous. I've seen people so blind by their greed suddenly become aware of what's "REALLY" important. I've felt myself falling thru air, after tripping off a curb only to stop half-way as a car zoomed past me, before my body was righted. I've seen the hand of God holding me during periods of my life - the beauty of it is, often I didn't recognize God's influence DURING the events. I've tested the waters of Christ's love, and found them to be GOOD.

See? Jesus didn't tell us The Way to make our lives HARDER - that'll come from unbelievers...Christ told us the way it is because it WORKS. Because the principles Christ has for us in the Bible not only make sense, they are honest and true to how they will affect our lives.

Stop looking for reasons NOT to believe in Christ...if you want proof, invited Him to show you in a way your eyes may not be able to measure.

All the best...

darin

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

The Dead Sea Scrolls confirm the reliability of the Old Testament (written in Hebrew).

But if you are set on disbelieving, no amount of evidence can change your mind...

Dead sea scroll? I'm interested!

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

dude - you are really reaching. You cannot believe in God because you won't until EVERY question you have has been 100% proven to you. I hope you don't require that proof in every aspect of life. Could make things pretty miserable. How rational is it to expect texts written thousands of years apart, by multiple authors to exist in such harmony as does the Bible we have today? My friend, you don't want God to be proven to you - you don't WANT to believe. I get the sense you like the place you are spiritually; it's as if God has blessed you with an excuse NOT to believe the Bible, and what It tells us about life. Make no mistake, God is INDEED bigger than what we have in his Word. It's still not an excuse to declare his Word invalid.

Do you know why I believe in God? Do you know why I place my faith in Jesus and what he told us?

I have witnessed first hand the power of God's love. The touch of Christ's hand. I've seen wretched humans become loving and generous. I've seen people so blind by their greed suddenly become aware of what's "REALLY" important. I've felt myself falling thru air, after tripping off a curb only to stop half-way as a car zoomed past me, before my body was righted. I've seen the hand of God holding me during periods of my life - the beauty of it is, often I didn't recognize God's influence DURING the events. I've tested the waters of Christ's love, and found them to be GOOD.

See? Jesus didn't tell us The Way to make our lives HARDER - that'll come from unbelievers...Christ told us the way it is because it WORKS. Because the principles Christ has for us in the Bible not only make sense, they are honest and true to how they will affect our lives.

Stop looking for reasons NOT to believe in Christ...if you want proof, invited Him to show you in a way your eyes may not be able to measure.

All the best...

darin

Here is what I want plain and simple...If the message I was given was wrong
I need to know. word of man will not give me this. I have asked in many different
ways by every name imaginable and have received nothing. This message burns
in my head day and night. I do not think it was an evil presence that spoke to me
why should my message not mean anything to me? It was given to me for a
reason, yet I still don't know why. How CAN I believe exactly what the message
told me not to? Why would he say that to me? I'm open to what you have to
say...it just all leads back to the book.

 

[dmp]

Here is what I want plain and simple...If the message I was given was wrong I need to know. word of man will not give me this. I have asked in many different ways by every name imaginable and have received nothing. This message burns in my head day and night. I do not think it was an evil presence that spoke to me why should my message not mean anything to me? It was given to me for a reason, yet I still don't know why. How CAN I believe exactly what the message told me not to? Why would he say that to me? I'm open to what you have to say...it just all leads back to the book.

I question the voice you claim.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

I question the voice you claim.

That I heard it or who it was???

 

[dmp]

That I heard it or who it was???

What exactly did that 'voice' say to you? "He is not I known by many names"?

Is that the gist of it?


Look - I have HUGE issues with Chruch - I look around and see fat rich white guys in their splendor talking about how God loves me, and junk. I see these elaborate churches and people sitting like rats waiting for a food pellot from the preacher. I grow nausiated thinking about how 'religion' affects people and destroys life.

Christ, on the other hand, is not like that.

Christ was not caught up on ceremony or artifacts or spit and polish.

"This is the cup of a carpenter" - Indiana Jones....


Maybe I missed it in your text (which I just read), but what did the voice tell you specifically, and why do you doubt the Bible because of it?

 

[dmp]

I think I found it

I was told several things regarding the way
mankind has perverted the words of our maker.

Has nothing to do with the Bible - it has everything to do with how people have used the Bible to Destroy. In fact, Christ said something similar to his followers; about how the Jewish leaders had taken the Law of Moses and warped it to fit their views.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

What exactly did that 'voice' say to you? "He is not I known by many names"?

Is that the gist of it?


Look - I have HUGE issues with Chruch - I look around and see fat rich white guys in their splendor talking about how God loves me, and junk. I see these elaborate churches and people sitting like rats waiting for a food pellot from the preacher. I grow nausiated thinking about how 'religion' affects people and destroys life.

Christ, on the other hand, is not like that.

Christ was not caught up on ceremony or artifacts or spit and polish.

"This is the cup of a carpenter" - Indiana Jones....


Maybe I missed it in your text (which I just read), but what did the voice tell you specifically, and why do you doubt the Bible because of it?

He is not I but known by many names"?
As I said, I remember little of the words. this is one thing that makes me doubt
the book, because I heard what was said to me, yet I can't recall the words
only the message. Would it be fair to say that all messages from God could
have came this way???

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

I think I found it


Has nothing to do with the Bible - it has everything to do with how people have used the Bible to Destroy. In fact, Christ said something similar to his followers; about how the Jewish leaders had taken the Law of Moses and warped it to fit their views.

I'm willing to accept this as a possible solution to what he wants from me.
I might have had it wrong, he might have wanted me to open the eyes
of the church. What do you think???

 

[dmp]

Would it be fair to say that all messages from God could have came this way???

No - because by and large, nobody set out to write a Bible. People were mostly recording history for posterity in the old testament, in the NT, most of it is simply a collection of Letters sent by Paul to various churches in the region.

God rarely said to people "Hey! Dude! Abdullah! Start writin this shizzle...."

You have to trust the Word of God more than even what you 'think' you hear from God. I've 'heard' or 'felt' lots of things; we are instructed to test the spirits we encounter - they cannot be of God if they contradict his Word.