Let's talk about God

[MissileMan]

A question for the religious folks who use this forum: Do you believe that everything that happens is God's will and part of God's grand design?

 

[nycflasher]

A question for the religious folks who use this forum: Do you believe that everything that happens is God's will and part of God's grand design?

I'm not very religious in th conventional sense, but I think that that is what belief in God is about. Otherwise, why is he The Almighty?

 

[dmp]

God 'knows' things will happen; he doesn't always 'cause' them to happen.

 

[nycflasher]

God 'knows' things will happen; he doesn't always 'cause' them to happen.

If he "caused" us to be here, shouldn't we assume he causes alot of other things to happen?

 

[dmp]

If he "caused" us to be here, shouldn't we assume he causes alot of other things to happen?

I mean that insomuch as:

(for example)

"God Knew I'd marry my wife, Mary (who is hot). He did NOT 'choose' Mary for me."

"God 'knew' the hostages in Iraq would be killed. He did not 'cause' them to be killed."

Yeah - God doesn't 'force' us to do anything...he knows what we will do because he 'caused' us to exist.

 

[nycflasher]

I mean that insomuch as:

(for example)

"God Knew I'd marry my wife, Mary (who is hot). He did NOT 'choose' Mary for me."

And you know this.......................how?
For the sake of argument.

 

[MissileMan]

I mean that insomuch as:

(for example)

"God Knew I'd marry my wife, Mary (who is hot). He did NOT 'choose' Mary for me."

"God 'knew' the hostages in Iraq would be killed. He did not 'cause' them to be killed."

Yeah - God doesn't 'force' us to do anything...he knows what we will do because he 'caused' us to exist.

So was your marriage to Mary part of a grand design or not? Was the beheading of innocent civilians in Iraq part of a grand design or not? Are you saying that God is omniscient and not omnipotent?

 

[nycflasher]

Are you saying that God is omniscient and not omnipotent?

There lies the rub. :duh3:

 

[no1tovote4]

A question for the religious folks who use this forum: Do you believe that everything that happens is God's will and part of God's grand design?

I notice that when you spoke of religions you assumed that every religious person believes in a one Centralized God.

I am a recently converted Theravada Buddhist, Theravada Buddhism does not deal with "god" but with your life at this time. While there are many Buddhist who believe in a Diety, it isn't necessarily the same type or have the same function as the Diety that you speak of in your original post.

Please be specific as to which religions you speak of, the question may cause some confusion.

 

[no1tovote4]

Are you saying that God is omniscient and not omnipotent?

The statement would say neither. The assumption is that an omnipotent God has chosen to allow you free will, therefore your choice to marry somebody would be known by his omniscience, but if it didn't fit his plan for you he would allow you to make your own mistake. Interesting philosophical question, however you make the same mistake as many others. You have put natural limits upon something that is supernatural.


God could be both and still allow for conditions to set his plan in motion if here were omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. One push at the beginning could simply be all that was needed.

 

[dmp]

So was your marriage to Mary part of a grand design or not? Was the beheading of innocent civilians in Iraq part of a grand design or not? Are you saying that God is omniscient and not omnipotent?

No. No. Yes - he's both.

 

[theim]

No one understands exactly how God works. He is beyond all understanding, hence the term "faith". I am a Roman Catholic, and we are taught that God is both omnicient and omnipotent.

 

[Avatar4321]

No one understands exactly how God works. He is beyond all understanding, hence the term "faith". I am a Roman Catholic, and we are taught that God is both omnicient and omnipotent.

I am not so sure about that. I mean dont get me wrong, God isnt exactly easy to understand. But being Almighty He has the power to get men to comprehend Him if He so desires. Besides when Christ prayed to the Father, He said, "3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3) So there is at least a way to know God if not totally comprehend Him.

I think people sometime think God is way out there when He is alot closer than we may think. As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man can become. Its the whole message of the Gospel.

 

[nakedemperor]

No one understands exactly how God works. He is beyond all understanding, hence the term "faith". I am a Roman Catholic, and we are taught that God is both omnicient and omnipotent.

If God is both completely good and all-powerful, why does he let bad things happen (ever), if it is conceivably within his power to never allow them to happen?

 

[Avatar4321]

If God is both completely good and all-powerful, why does he let bad things happen (ever), if it is conceivably within his power to never allow them to happen?

Because greater Good comes from passing through trials and learning for ourselves how to choose Good from Evil. If he forced us none of us could be happy because happiness depends on being good and we cant be good if we have no choice in the matter.

 

[no1tovote4]

If God is both completely good and all-powerful, why does he let bad things happen (ever), if it is conceivably within his power to never allow them to happen?

I think that would present a dichotomy of purpose. In order to never let anything bad ever happen it would be necessary to destroy evil, thus bringing an end to the world as that is what happens in Revelations if you are speaking biblically. If he chose to never allow bad things to happen free choice in your sins would also not be allowed, thus the dichotomy.

Sometimes the struggle makes you stronger and living through times that are bad may be a part of a plan.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think that would present a dichotomy of purpose. In order to never let anything bad ever happen it would be necessary to destroy evil, thus bringing an end to the world as that is what happens in Revelations if you are speaking biblically. If he chose to never allow bad things to happen free choice in your sins would also not be allowed, thus the dichotomy.

Sometimes the struggle makes you stronger and living through times that are bad may be a part of a plan.

But if you think about it God really doesnt destroy evil in Revelation. They are simply tormented by their guilt. They still exist. But i think you are right. If God tried to prevent all evil from occuring, i think nearly all of us would have to die.

Sometimes strugles to make us stronger. I remember the analogy of a chick hatching from its egg. it struggles and some may be tempted to help it by breaking the egg shell for it. but if the chick doesnt break free it wont be strong enough to live.

Similar with the Butterfly. When a Butterfly breaks free of its coccoon it struggles and fights to be free. if it were helped it would open its wings and quickly fall to the ground dead because it wouldnt have the strength to fly.

God is wiser than us. He knows what will refine us to reach our potential.

I also think God is one to take a backseat sometimes. Some blessings He is willing to give us but it is predicated on us having faith enough to ask Him for those blessings.

 

[Joz]

God causes.....God lets......You make it sound as tho' He's sitting on His thrown deciding things on a whim.

In the Garden of Eden, life was perfect. And man had the free will to chose. And man so happened to chose to sin which set this world, it's events & it's inhabitants, in motion. And so now, it must play itself out. Tho' I believe God, on occassion, does intervene, I think we've pretty much tied His hands to the extent of how much He can do. There's alot of innocence that gets caught in the crossfire of this world. Children die, people become homeless, go hungry, get sick. There are accidents, murder, divorce, hatred. And we each must find out for ourselves that His way is true & just.
As far as trials making one stronger? That which doesn't kill you.....really hurts! Some people are able to withstand the adversity that comes their way. Others can't and so they become cynical, or become unbalanced & succumb to suicide.
There will be a time when all this will come to an end. God didn't say it would be easy, He said it would be worth it.

 

[Joz]

But if you think about it God really doesnt destroy evil in Revelation.

Gonna have to disagree with you here, Avatar. If evil is never destroyed, nothing will ever be different.

Revelation 20:15 & 21:1 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

[5stringJeff]

A question for the religious folks who use this forum: Do you believe that everything that happens is God's will and part of God's grand design?

Great question.

First, what is God's will? Does God get involved of the details of life? Does God care who I marry, or what flavor of coffee I get this morning?

In the Bible, we find that God's will for mankind is concerned primarily with their eternal destiny. "In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost." (Matthew 18:14) Conversely, God does will that we enter into a right relationship with Him: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9). God's primary will for us is to repent of our naturally sinful ways and accept His Lordship over our lives.

So will everyone act according to God's will? One only has to look around the world today to answer that questions: we see genocide in Africa, terrorism in the Middle East, despotism, murder, rape, theft... obviously, people are not following God's will to live under His commands. Some would see that as a lack of power (or omnipotence) on God's part; after all, if God is omnipotent, why don't people obey Him (i.e. why is there evil in the world)? What this argument misses is the concept of free will, which God, in His grand design, has granted us. If God forced us to follow His commands, how could there be love involved? How could there be a relationship? How could we willingly repent? We would be little more than robots. By allowing free will, God allowed for the possibility of evil, but He also allowed for a willing humanity to choose to love Him by obeying Him. Because God is love (see 1 John 4), His grand design incorporates love so that His greatest purposes could be accomplished.