Let us discuss this openly... What exactly IS the "two states solution"?

[P F Tinmore]

I know exactly what his solution is ...

But it ain't gonna happen.

Well yes, the Zionist Jews have adopted many of the tactics of their previous oppressors, but do you think the rest of the world will allow the Zionists to murder all the non-Jews?

You think Zionists are "murdering" all the non Jews?

you know more than 20% of Israel's citizens are non-Jews, right? and they have full rights.

At least let us stay true to the facts

Firstly, I asked the question about killing all the non-Jews. Secondly, the Israelis rule over a population of non-Jews as large or larger than the population of Jews. You people keep up the charade that Apartheid South Africa kept up with respect to the Bantustans. You rule over the occupied territories, you control the borders, the air space, the territorial sea, you collect their taxes and you enter the territories with your armed forces wherever and whenever.

That is true (excluding the taxes part) but that only means that currently they're under Israel's control, which is known already. How does is make it apartheid? Is the separation based on race? no it is not, and you know it. So what gives.

I'm always surprised how little Israelis really know about their country's treatment of the Palestinians. Everyone except Israelis know that Israel collects almost all of the taxes paid by the Palestinians.

"Israel has halted transfers of the tax revenue it collects on behalf of the Palestinians in retaliation for their move to join the international criminal court in the Hague, according to Israeli media."

Israel freezes Palestinian tax funds over international criminal court move

Because all imports and exports are controlled by Israel, Israel collects all of those taxes on the Palestinians behalf. Israel, by treaty, must pass that money to Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Collects or not. They're in deep debts. Don't argue on things you don't know.

Of course they are. That is Israel's master plan.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Shusha
In light of the second post, Jose, I would like to ask you the same question you asked Hollie. Do you think it is morally acceptable to murder human beings when they try to peacefully return to their places of origin?

Both attacks on civilians and the fencing, murder and arrest of palestinians are morally unacceptable, but the cause and effect relationship between them cannot be denied, the former is the consequence of the latter.

 

[teddyearp]

there's no ideal solution, other than changing the past,

But there is no changing the past. Once an egg is cracked open, you cannot put it back in. What Lipush is trying to do obviously escapes you. She (and I) for once would like to look to the future and find an actual peaceful end.

 

[teddyearp]

Decolonization.

Translation=destruction of the State of Israel. But that egg is already opened. Do have an actual workable solution?

 

[Hollie]

Collects or not. They're in deep debts. Don't argue on things you don't know.

Of course they are. That is Israel's master plan.

Your Grand Conspiracy Theory Master Plan™

 

[teddyearp]

The exact same scene could be seen in the West Bank and Gaza in 1948, 4 decades before Hamas was created and years before the first fedayeen attack.

Again, quit trying to unscramble eggs. I implore you to look at the facts as they are now and try to find a solution moving forward into the future, otherwise, find another thread to bring up the 'old' problems.

Please. Pretty please. We have been needing a thread like this for a long time.

 

[teddyearp]

Oh FFS. Israel collects Palestinian taxes, what is wrong with you people, you can't just admit fact.

The purpose of this thread is to find a solution, not to bitch. Try it, you might like it.

 

[teddyearp]

Lipush, I applaud your attempt here to have the members of this board to attempt to look beyond the past and focus on the future. As for this:

In answer to the question, though....

Areas A and B and Gaza to Palestine. Area C to Palestine to create a contiguous state with land swaps. Israel keeps Gush Etzion, Ma'ale Adumin, Ariel, East Jerusalem, Hebron (especially the holy places) and an access corridor to it. In exchange, suitable Israeli land with large Arab population and expansion for Gaza.

Israel controls the Temple Mount/Haram Al Sharif. But, if possible, a corridor for Palestinian access to same.

Residents become citizens of territory in which they are resident. Border areas in question have a referendum to decide which side of the line they want to belong to. Dual citizenship permitted for all who apply, but this carries a risk of deportation for criminal activity or incitement. Anyone wishing to change residency due to this agreement is given generous incentives to relocate.

Both nations agree to provide equality in cultural and language preservation, education, laws, etc. while acknowledging the essential Jewish or Arab nature of the State.

I have many times felt that this is a good solution. However, I think Israel puts a high value on some control over the Jordan valley. So I would propose that a corridor along Route 90 and Route 1 would be a part of Israel, and a part of the exchange, as Shusha said could be specified as a corridor from Area A leading up to Nazareth, as Nazareth is predominately Arab.

 

[Shusha]

I have many times felt that this is a good solution. However, I think Israel puts a high value on some control over the Jordan valley. So I would propose that a corridor along Route 90 and Route 1 would be a part of Israel, and a part of the exchange, as Shusha said could be specified as a corridor from Area A leading up to Nazareth, as Nazareth is predominately Arab.

I agree, as long as the Jordan Valley corridor doesn't cut Palestine off from Jordan. I think Palestine needs not to be completely enclosed by Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Decolonization.

Translation=destruction of the State of Israel. But that egg is already opened. Do have an actual workable solution?

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration

 

[teddyearp]

I agree, as long as the Jordan Valley corridor doesn't cut Palestine off from Jordan. I think Palestine needs not to be completely enclosed by Israel.

Agreed. There are currently three(?) crossings into Jordan (Allenby Bridge is one), however they all come from Area C, so they could go through; perhaps becoming neutral.

 

[teddyearp]

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration

That document is 56 years old. Let's try for something new.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration

That document is 56 years old. Let's try for something new.

Why? It is still applicable.

 

[Shusha]

Decolonization.

Translation=destruction of the State of Israel. But that egg is already opened. Do have an actual workable solution?

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration

Didn't that already get taken care of with Oslo?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Decolonization.

Translation=destruction of the State of Israel. But that egg is already opened. Do have an actual workable solution?

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration

Didn't that already get taken care of with Oslo?

Hardly. Oslo cemented the colonization.

 

[Shusha]

Decolonization.

Translation=destruction of the State of Israel. But that egg is already opened. Do have an actual workable solution?

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration

Didn't that already get taken care of with Oslo?

Hardly. Oslo cemented the colonization.

Oslo cemented, in treaty, the two state solution which up until then had been only a suggestion. Indeed, it cemented the ideas presented in the UN declaration you just posted.

Why is this not a workable solution? See my post on suggested borders.

 

[teddyearp]

Tinmore, if you cannot see the spirit of this thread and instead want to continue to unscramble eggs, then I implore you to leave it.

Please. Pretty please. Let us forget ALL the past and move forward.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinmore, if you cannot see the spirit of this thread and instead want to continue to unscramble eggs, then I implore you to leave it.

Please. Pretty please. Let us forget ALL the past and move forward.

Colonization is present. It is not past.

 

[teddyearp]

So, tinmore, what is your idea? Your solution? And please don't leave it to just one or two sentences. Please tell us in full detail what you see as the only path to peace in Israel/Palestine.

Don't worry about links, nor the length of your post. I want to really know your full solution.