Keynesian economics 101

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Capitalist, Jul 3, 2010.

  1. Capitalist
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    Capitalist Jeffersonian Liberal

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    WASHINGTON (AP) – The government is handing out nearly $2 billion for new solar plants that President Barack Obama says will create thousands of jobs and increase the use of renewable energy sources.
    Obama announced the initiative in his weekly radio and online address Saturday, saying the money is part of his plan to bring new industries to the U.S.
    “We’re going to keep competing aggressively to make sure the jobs and industries of the future are taking root right here in America,” Obama said.
    The two companies that will receive the money from the president’s $862 billion economic stimulus are Abengoa Solar, which will build one of the world’s largest solar plants in Arizona, creating 1,600 construction jobs; and Abound Solar Manufacturing, which is building plants in Colorado and Indiana. The Obama administration says those projects will create more than 2,000 construction jobs and 1,500 permanent jobs.






    Lets see, 2,000,000,000 dollars/1500 jobs = 1,333,333 dollars per job. Hahahahaha.................
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  2. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    When we were handing out tax breaks to billionaires, was that Keynesian econ 101, too, professor?

    Cause I don't know whether you've noticed it or not, yet, but that isn't working out so well for us either.
  3. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    Spending is the problem, Skeezix, not shaking down the rustics for enough loot.
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  4. KissMy
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    KissMy Free Breast Exam

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    None of our leaders know dick about Keynesian economics. According to Keynes when the private sector is booming the government is suppose to cut way back & pay down all the debt created by the increased government spending in the bust. When has that ever happened? All they have been doing is the spending part. This is suicide economics 101.
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  5. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    I'm only laughing to keep from crying:

    The Obama administration's green jobs program simply shifts wealth from businesses, taxpayers and consumers to politically favored uses. Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas W. Elmendorf noted, "The net effect [of a green jobs policy] ... would likely be some decline in employment during the transition. ... The fact that jobs turn up somewhere else for some people does not mean there aren't substantial costs borne by people, communities, firms and affected industries."

    Mr. Obama's green jobs program turns this on its head, favoring technologies that employ large numbers of people over technologies that use labor efficiently. For example, according to the United Nations Environment Program, solar energy requires 9 times as much labor per megawatt of energy generated as natural gas, and 9 times as many workers per megawatt of energy as coal. No wonder, solar energy costs 3 to 5 times as much per megawatt as electricity from natural gas or coal.

    Experience in Europe, which has taken the lead in green job creation, confirms that this is an economic shell game. For example, according to a study of Spain's renewable energy initiatives, the Spanish government created about 50,000 green jobs, but as a result about 110,000 other jobs were lost.

    Worse, only 1 in 10 new jobs were permanent, and the average green job created since added $774,000 in costs to consumers' bills. The high cost of green energy has driven energy-intensive Spanish industries to countries with lower energy costs.
    The report concluded, "These costs do not appear to be unique to Spain's approach but instead are largely inherent in schemes to promote renewable energy sources." That means that even if Mr. Obama's initiatives manage to produce 5 million green jobs, about 11 million jobs could be lost in other sectors.

    GEDDES AND BURNETT: Eco at the end of recession? - Washington Times
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  6. Mr.Fitnah
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    Mr.Fitnah Dreamcrusher

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    Well you can have thousands of solar cell manufacturing plants .
    But if people dont have the money to by them they are just a waste of time and money.

    Can Abound Solar or Abengoa Solar match the price per foot of "nanosolar"?
    A company that has invested its own money and brought the price to about 100 $ per kilowatt if I recall correctly?
  7. Rozman
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    Rozman VIP Member Supporting Member

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    They could have accomplished so much so much faster getting the economy going again if they cut capital
    gains taxes,or even suspending pay roll taxes for six months even.Or better yet it would have been cheaper for the government in they cut a check for $10,000.00 to any person in the country who filed a tax return the previous year.It would have saved 100's of billions of dollars.
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  8. Zona
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    Zona A guy in ariZONA

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    Why wont he do something towards alternative energy...oh wait, he did. Well then lets complain about that then.




    Whiny little bitches. Who saw this thread coming? :)
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2010
  9. Charles_Main
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    Charles_Main AR15 Owner

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    How do you explain that those "tax breaks to Billionaires" increased total revenues the Fed took in?

    Do you even think about what you say or do you just regurgitate a Democrat Talking point like a robot?
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  10. KissMy
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    KissMy Free Breast Exam

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    Stupid partisan hacks like yourself do not realize he did neither. His plan to pay 1,250,000.00 per temp solar job is fucking stupid. He should have used more money giving energy vouchers that would create far more jobs for the average citizen instead of political pay-off to a few of his friends. Obama's way we get billed but we get nothing in return. True stimulus way everyone wins.

    So tell me whiny bitch how you benefit every-time Obama pays-off one of his cronies?
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  11. Capitalist
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    Capitalist Jeffersonian Liberal

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    Krugman and Pelosi – two peas in an economic pod


    [​IMG] July 5th, 2010 | [​IMG] Author: Bruce McQuain
    Remember a few days ago I pointed out how Nancy Pelosi was out and about claiming that unemployment benefits was the greatest job creator in the world?
    Well guess where she probably got it from – Paul Krugman?
    Wait: there’s more. One main reason there aren’t enough jobs right now is weak consumer demand. Helping the unemployed, by putting money in the pockets of people who badly need it, helps support consumer spending. That’s why the Congressional Budget Office rates aid to the unemployed as a highly cost-effective form of economic stimulus. And unlike, say, large infrastructure projects, aid to the unemployed creates jobs quickly — while allowing that aid to lapse, which is what is happening right now, is a recipe for even weaker job growth, not in the distant future but over the next few months.
    I won’t bother you with the reasoning that says this is absolute nonsense – that was covered in the Pelosi post. What’s surprising is how desperate Krugman is to have his way with increased deficit spending – to stoop to this level of argument. Suffice it to say, this doesn’t increase “consumer demand” or support “consumer spending”. Unemployment benefits are a fraction of what the household was making before so what it goes toward is the maintenance of necessities and not much else.
    To see a Nobel prize winning economist reduced to this – a political hack – is rather revealing. It certainly, at least in my mind, makes everything he writes that is purportedly about his specialty suspect. If this is his argument, then he hasn’t got an argument, and if you read the rest of his screed you’ll discover it is only an excuse to attack the GOP – falsely, of course.
    Krugman has all but ruined his reputation as an economist with nonsense like this. Of course when a person becomes identified with the clueless, like Nancy Pelosi, and their arguments, the decent into full “hackery” is complete.
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  12. Oddball
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    Pelosi is too stupid to have thought that up on her own.
  13. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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  14. Greenbeard
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    Contrary to what appears to be popular belief here, this isn't a direct payment toward labor costs. Instead, they're loan guarantees to construct plants, which I would imagine you realize involves costs beyond just labor costs. From Abengoa:

    Washington, DC – President Obama announced today in his weekly video address that DOE has offered a conditional commitment for a $1.45 billion loan guarantee to Abengoa Solar, Inc. The loan will support the construction and start-up of Solana, a 250 net megawatt (MW) concentrating solar power (CSP) plant in Arizona. [...]

    DOE’s Title XVII Loan Guarantee Program was created to support the deployment of innovative clean energy technologies pursuant to Section 1703 of Title XVII of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 (Title XVII). Title XVII of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 was amended by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 to create Section 1705, a new program for the deployment of renewable energy and electric power transmission projects. Solana is eligible for a loan guarantee under both sections of Title XVII.

    Santiago Seage, CEO of Abengoa Solar, said that “this conditional guarantee could allow us to start construction of Solana this year. I want to recognize the leadership and effort of the DOE in making Solana possible through this guarantee.” Mr. Seage also added that Solana is in a very advanced stage of development and permitting, having received most of its authorizations from local, county, and state authorities. Recently, DOE conducted an Environmental Assessment study and issued a finding of no significant impact (FONSI) for the project. “What the project needs now is for Maricopa County and the state to continue their support and work expeditiously on the last remaining permits needed for construction to begin,” said Abengoa Solar’s Seage.

    The construction and operation of Solana will bring many economic and environmental benefits to Arizona and will support the nation’s goals for energy independence through a “green” economy. The plant will create significant tax income for local communities and the state over the life of the project. Abengoa Solar’s Arizona Vice President Kate Maracas stated that “the building of Solana will also create between 1,600-1,700 new construction jobs, and operation of the plant will add another 85 permanent jobs. These construction and operating jobs will create a few thousand additional indirect jobs. Taken together, 98% of the jobs created by Solana will be American jobs - primarily from Arizona, and a smaller portion from neighboring states.”

    Abengoa Solar signed a power purchase agreement with APS, the state’s largest electric utility, to sell the energy produced by Solana for a period of 30 years. “APS has demonstrated a strong commitment to solar energy and has shown leadership in moving solar energy toward the mainstream,” said Maracas.​
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  15. boedicca
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    boedicca Uppity Water Nymph Supporting Member

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    Correction: they know dick about Economics in general.
  16. Capitalist
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    Capitalist Jeffersonian Liberal

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    (Telegraph)- The US workforce shrank by 652,000 in June, one of the sharpest contractions ever. The rate of hourly earnings fell 0.1pc. Wages are flirting with deflation.
    “The economy is still in the gravitational pull of the Great Recession,” said Robert Reich, former US labour secretary. “All the booster rockets for getting us beyond it are failing.”
    “Home sales are down. Retail sales are down. Factory orders in May suffered their biggest tumble since March of last year. So what are we doing about it? Less than nothing,” he said.
    California is tightening faster than Greece. State workers have seen a 14pc fall in earnings this year due to forced furloughs. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is cutting pay for 200,000 state workers to the minimum wage of $7.25 an hour to cover his $19bn (£15bn) deficit.
    Can Illinois be far behind? The state has a deficit of $12bn and is $5bn in arrears to schools, nursing homes, child care centres, and prisons. “It is getting worse every single day,” said state comptroller Daniel Hynes. “We are not paying bills for absolutely essential services. That is obscene.”
    Roughly a million Americans have dropped out of the jobs market altogether over the past two months. That is the only reason why the headline unemployment rate is not exploding to a post-war high.
    Let us be honest. The US is still trapped in depression a full 18 months into zero interest rates, quantitative easing (QE), and fiscal stimulus that has pushed the budget deficit above 10pc of GDP.
    The share of the US working-age population with jobs in June actually fell from 58.7pc to 58.5pc. This is the real stress indicator. The ratio was 63pc three years ago. Eight million jobs have been lost.
    The average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks. Nothing like this has been seen before in the post-war era. Jeff Weninger, of Harris Private Bank, said this compares with a peak of 21.2 weeks in the Volcker recession of the early 1980s.
    Rest here>>>
  17. Capitalist
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    Capitalist Jeffersonian Liberal

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    And in other news..............

    Fore!
    [​IMG]

    (CNBC)- The Dow Jones Industrial Average is repeating a pattern that appeared just before markets fell during the Great Depression, Daryl Guppy, CEO at Guppytraders.com, told CNBC Monday.
    “Those who don’t remember history are doomed to repeat it…there was a head and shoulders pattern that developed before the Depression in 1929, then with the recovery in 1930 we had another head and shoulders pattern that preceded a fall in the market, and in the current Dow situation we see an exact repeat of that environment,” Guppy said.
    The Dow retreated 457.33 points, or 4.5 percent last week, to close at 9,686 Friday. Guppy said a Dow fall below 9,800 confirmed the head and shoulders pattern.
    The Shanghai Composite is seeing a very rapid collapse, falling below 2,500, which suggests the major fall in the Dow, he added.
    In the European markets, Guppy says Frankfurt’s Dax is witnessing a different pattern to London’s FTSE.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2010
  18. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    So, then what you're inadvertently admitting here is that "stimulus" is just a big slush fund to dole out to favored and "correct" industries, not to really do any of that "creating jobs" thingy we hear about from progressive Fabian boilerplate.

    Thanks for clearing up that one.
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  19. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    [​IMG]
  20. Greenbeard
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    Unless you're calling for direct government (i.e. WPA-style) hiring, no.

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