CDZ It isn't that I hate the rich....

[Onyx]

what violations of law?

Microsoft broke the law many times.

Look it up.

cronyism? you mean working with friends
i'm not sure that's a bad thing. and i don't think it's unethical.

Sure.... "friends."

Cronyism is the worst problem in this country at the moment. The most unethical thing any business can do, and it is legal. Seriously, anyone that engages in it should be killed, and your friend Warren Buffet was a huge offender.

advocacy issues? you mean his charity work???

It isn't charity.

Buying politicians out to support your political beliefs is not charity.

buffet is awesome. sorry. i have massive respect for someone whose kids didn't even know they were rich until they were adults or nearly adults.

Fair enough. Just know you are respecting a crook and attention whore.

 

[320 Years of History]

Red:
There's no question that money is by far the easiest and fastest way to effect rule changes; however, it's not the only way.

No one said it was....

There is also leveraging influence for political gain and incurred accountability due to pandering during elections. Nobody in politics does anything out of the kindness of their heart.

Blue:
I included....

Green:
I'm not sure I know what that phrase means...I have thought about the various ways your statement could be simplified, and that phrase makes no sense to me no matter what way I break it down:

• Removing "political gain and," your sentence would read, "There is also leveraging influence for .... incurred accountability due to pandering during elections."
• Removing "also leveraging influence for political gain and," one obtains, "There is .... incurred accountability due to pandering during elections."
• Replacing "incurred accountability" with their respective meanings, the simplified sentence reads either:
  • "There is also leveraging influence for .... responsibility/ownership one brings upon oneself due to pandering during elections.", or
    
  • There is .... responsibility/ownership one brings upon oneself due to pandering during elections."

No matter which way I break it down, what you meant is is a mystery to me. Would you please clarify?

Pink:
Here again, you've made a broad and unsubstantiated generalization. Would you care to support it?

Quite frankly, I'm still waiting for you to provide support for last one I pointed out to you. You'll recall it was one which, in response to my request for substantiation for it, you asked me to identify an exception to your generalization rather than your giving evidence for it being true for all or most billionaires.

 

[Onyx]

No matter which way I break it down, what you meant is is a mystery to me. Would you please clarify?

When a candidate wants to be elected, they make campaign promises that appeal to their voter base. Upon getting into office, they incur accountability to fulfill their "obligations."

Here again, you've made a broad and unsubstantiated generalization. Would you care to support it?

I thought it was common sense, but others never fail to amaze ,me.

Do you really believe someone dedicates themselves to a career in high-tier politics because they genuinely want to help others to the core of their being? If so, that would be so far out from most ancient and modern philosophical schools of thought.

Quite frankly, I'm still waiting for you to provide support for last one I pointed out to you. You'll recall it was one which, in response to my request for substantiation for it, you asked me to identify an exception to your generalization rather than your giving evidence for it being true for all or most billionaires.

It is much easier to argue by observation than provide some psuedo-theory on how all billionaires naturally end up creating their wealth dishonestly.

Or I could try to prove my point by sifting through 1800 billionaires individually.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I watched construction sights as a kid go from white and black workers to nothing but hispanics.

Hispanics are one of the few demographics oriented towards taking construction work.

Put the politicized conjecture aside. The fact of the matter is that there was an excessive amount of high paying blue collar job openings in America during the recession, and probably moreso today.

Reach whatever conclusion you want from that. My guess is that American culture is more oriented towards white collar jobs and not hard labor, but you are welcome to offer another explanation

High paying jobs in construction? You're going to have to post a link thats reliable.

Construction Laborers and Helpers : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

10 Construction Jobs Where You'll Actually Find Work

I can also pull up several videos. I was searching for a full HBO documentary on the high job demand in construction during the height of the recession. If I find it I will report back to you, boss.

I watched the the shit happen and know it to be true.

Your personal observations count for very little relative to the facts.

You're a fucken kid obviously and have no clue as to the workings of the world.

Mod - Edit -- Personal exchanges don't belong in the CDZ..

Construction workers pay well but it's a bitch of a job you have to follow the money...keep a lot of contacts to maintain a career.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I watched construction sights as a kid go from white and black workers to nothing but hispanics.

Hispanics are one of the few demographics oriented towards taking construction work.

Put the politicized conjecture aside. The fact of the matter is that there was an excessive amount of high paying blue collar job openings in America during the recession, and probably moreso today.

Reach whatever conclusion you want from that. My guess is that American culture is more oriented towards white collar jobs and not hard labor, but you are welcome to offer another explanation

High paying jobs in construction? You're going to have to post a link thats reliable.

Construction Laborers and Helpers : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

10 Construction Jobs Where You'll Actually Find Work

I can also pull up several videos. I was searching for a full HBO documentary on the high job demand in construction during the height of the recession. If I find it I will report back to you, boss.

I watched the the shit happen and know it to be true.

Your personal observations count for very little relative to the facts.

You're a fucken kid obviously and have no clue as to the workings of the world.

Mod - Edit -- Personal exchanges don't belong in the CDZ..

Construction workers pay well but it's a bitch of a job you have to follow the money...keep a lot of contacts to maintain a career.

Not in Texas. Mexicans have driven down wages.

 

[320 Years of History]

When a candidate wants to be elected, they make campaign promises that appeal to their voter base. Upon getting into office, they incur accountability to fulfill their "obligations."

TY for the clarification.

Do you really believe someone dedicates themselves to a career in high-tier politics because they genuinely want to help others to the core of their being? If so, that would be so far out from most ancient and modern philosophical schools of thought.

Red:
Yes, particularly but not exclusively with regard to politicians who's public service commenced as part of a desire to right one or several social/societal wrongs.

Blue:
Book III of Aristotle's Politics identifies six kinds of political regime, which he classifies as being "correct" regimes, all of which have one thing in common: that the political leader(s), the statesman, of them undertake to lead for the common good.

As to the question whether the virtue of the good man is the same as that of the good citizen, the considerations already adduced prove that in some states the good man and the good citizen are the same, and in others different. When they are the same it is not every citizen who is a good man, but only the statesman and those who have or may have, alone or in conjunction with others, the conduct of public affairs.

-- Aristotle, Politics

Note:
Refer to Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics for his discussion on what a "good man," a man of virtue, is.​

It is much easier to argue by observation than provide some psuedo-theory on how all billionaires naturally end up creating their wealth dishonestly.

Or I could try to prove my point by sifting through 1800 billionaires individually.

Making the high quality argument is far more compelling than is making the easy one that relies upon what one presumes be "common sense" but that may not at all be that, other than to audience members who, prior to one's making the argument, are predisposed to one's POV. That is essentially the difference between strong and highly credible arguments and weak, dubious ones.

Indeed, arguments that rely upon the audience accepting the "common sense" of one or more of its premises and inferences isn't so much an argument as it is pandering to the crowd. One need not present arguments to those who already agree with one. Arguments are needed when there are in the audience folks who do not accept one's conclusion(s).

 

[2aguy]

It is a fact that to become filthy rich in this country, you have to be a crook.

Even the minority few which play by the law are still engaged in highly unethical practices. When their incompetence leads them to the brink of collapse, their wallets are protected by a final safety net; The hard labor of the plebian population ensures that the filthy rich will never be driven out of commission.

The corporate state provides us with a high standard of living and plenty of money to buy Big Macs and Iphones, but do we really want to live in a world built on blood money?

Sorry.....you can't say that....you just see the ones who get caught, not the ones who live their lives out of the spotlight....

The really greedy people...the politicians...and it isn't even their money...

 

[320 Years of History]

I watched construction sights as a kid go from white and black workers to nothing but hispanics.

Hispanics are one of the few demographics oriented towards taking construction work.

Put the politicized conjecture aside. The fact of the matter is that there was an excessive amount of high paying blue collar job openings in America during the recession, and probably moreso today.

Reach whatever conclusion you want from that. My guess is that American culture is more oriented towards white collar jobs and not hard labor, but you are welcome to offer another explanation

High paying jobs in construction? You're going to have to post a link thats reliable.

Construction Laborers and Helpers : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

10 Construction Jobs Where You'll Actually Find Work

I can also pull up several videos. I was searching for a full HBO documentary on the high job demand in construction during the height of the recession. If I find it I will report back to you, boss.

I watched the the shit happen and know it to be true.

Your personal observations count for very little relative to the facts.

You're a fucken kid obviously and have no clue as to the workings of the world.

Mod - Edit -- Personal exchanges don't belong in the CDZ..

Construction workers pay well but it's a bitch of a job you have to follow the money...keep a lot of contacts to maintain a career.

Not in Texas. Mexicans have driven down wages.

It's interesting that folks will point to Mexicans, and the macroeconomic shift in the supply of labor as the cause of the lower price paid by demanders of labor for the most important single factor effecting shifts in both supply and demand, and thus in the price paid for labor and everything else, is technology advances.

Yet few folks complain or point out that efficiency and effectiveness increasing technological advances in the construction industry are what has reduced the need for labor, and labor intensive construction methods and materials, even though those advances are many and pervasive in the industry.

• Self healing concrete
• Thermal bridging
• Predictive software
• Modular construction
• Asset mapping
• Construction equipment
• Construction automation

Advances such as the ones noted in the materials referenced above reduce the cost of and need for labor at all phases of the construction process, from planning to building to maintenance.

At the end of the day, the battle for higher wages, though it's often put as one between labor and their employers, is really one between labor and consumers. The simple fact is that nobody who buys anything that must be built wants to pay more for it or wait longer for it to be built, which too equates to paying more for it.

 

[GaryDog]

I watched construction sights as a kid go from white and black workers to nothing but hispanics.

Hispanics are one of the few demographics oriented towards taking construction work.

Put the politicized conjecture aside. The fact of the matter is that there was an excessive amount of high paying blue collar job openings in America during the recession, and probably moreso today.

Reach whatever conclusion you want from that. My guess is that American culture is more oriented towards white collar jobs and not hard labor, but you are welcome to offer another explanation

High paying jobs in construction? You're going to have to post a link thats reliable.

Construction Laborers and Helpers : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

10 Construction Jobs Where You'll Actually Find Work

I can also pull up several videos. I was searching for a full HBO documentary on the high job demand in construction during the height of the recession. If I find it I will report back to you, boss.

I watched the the shit happen and know it to be true.

Your personal observations count for very little relative to the facts.

You're a fucken kid obviously and have no clue as to the workings of the world.

Mod - Edit -- Personal exchanges don't belong in the CDZ..

Construction workers pay well but it's a bitch of a job you have to follow the money...keep a lot of contacts to maintain a career.

Not in Texas. Mexicans have driven down wages.

Plainly false.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I watched construction sights as a kid go from white and black workers to nothing but hispanics.

Hispanics are one of the few demographics oriented towards taking construction work.

Put the politicized conjecture aside. The fact of the matter is that there was an excessive amount of high paying blue collar job openings in America during the recession, and probably moreso today.

Reach whatever conclusion you want from that. My guess is that American culture is more oriented towards white collar jobs and not hard labor, but you are welcome to offer another explanation

High paying jobs in construction? You're going to have to post a link thats reliable.

Construction Laborers and Helpers : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

10 Construction Jobs Where You'll Actually Find Work

I can also pull up several videos. I was searching for a full HBO documentary on the high job demand in construction during the height of the recession. If I find it I will report back to you, boss.

I watched the the shit happen and know it to be true.

Your personal observations count for very little relative to the facts.

You're a fucken kid obviously and have no clue as to the workings of the world.

Mod - Edit -- Personal exchanges don't belong in the CDZ..

Construction workers pay well but it's a bitch of a job you have to follow the money...keep a lot of contacts to maintain a career.

Not in Texas. Mexicans have driven down wages.

It's interesting that folks will point to Mexicans, and the macroeconomic shift in the supply of labor as the cause of the lower price paid by demanders of labor for the most important single factor effecting shifts in both supply and demand, and thus in the price paid for labor and everything else, is technology advances.

Yet few folks complain or point out that efficiency and effectiveness increasing technological advances in the construction industry are what has reduced the need for labor, and labor intensive construction methods and materials, even though those advances are many and pervasive in the industry.

• Self healing concrete
• Thermal bridging
• Predictive software
• Modular construction
• Asset mapping
• Construction equipment
• Construction automation

Advances such as the ones noted in the materials referenced above reduce the cost of and need for labor at all phases of the construction process, from planning to building to maintenance.

At the end of the day, the battle for higher wages, though it's often put as one between labor and their employers, is really one between labor and consumers. The simple fact is that nobody who buys anything that must be built wants to pay more for it or wait longer for it to be built, which too equates to paying more for it.

You're wasting your breath.
I watched it happen in machine shops as well.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I watched construction sights as a kid go from white and black workers to nothing but hispanics.

Hispanics are one of the few demographics oriented towards taking construction work.

Put the politicized conjecture aside. The fact of the matter is that there was an excessive amount of high paying blue collar job openings in America during the recession, and probably moreso today.

Reach whatever conclusion you want from that. My guess is that American culture is more oriented towards white collar jobs and not hard labor, but you are welcome to offer another explanation

High paying jobs in construction? You're going to have to post a link thats reliable.

Construction Laborers and Helpers : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

10 Construction Jobs Where You'll Actually Find Work

I can also pull up several videos. I was searching for a full HBO documentary on the high job demand in construction during the height of the recession. If I find it I will report back to you, boss.

I watched the the shit happen and know it to be true.

Your personal observations count for very little relative to the facts.

You're a fucken kid obviously and have no clue as to the workings of the world.

Mod - Edit -- Personal exchanges don't belong in the CDZ..

Construction workers pay well but it's a bitch of a job you have to follow the money...keep a lot of contacts to maintain a career.

Not in Texas. Mexicans have driven down wages.

Plainly false.

I was there and watched it happen.
Another example,as a kid 40 years ago I cut grass to make extra money.
I got twenty bucks a yard...now forty years later? You can still get your grass cut for twenty to twenty five bucks.
Of course the stream of trucks full of mexicans towing trailers full of yard equipment through my neighborhood has nothing to do with it right?
Hell,on and average midweek day the yard crew traffic out numbers resident traffic.

 

[320 Years of History]

as a kid 40 years ago I cut grass to make extra money.
I got twenty bucks a yard...now forty years later? You can still get your grass cut for twenty to twenty five bucks.

40 Years ago in my neighborhood, it was $10 - $15 per yard. Now, it's ~$40/yard if the neighborhood kids do it, which is why I have a regular gardner instead.

Key take-away: anecdotal evidence is interesting, but not credibly indicative of much, most especially not national norms or trends, yet is is indicative of one's own personal experience, and perhaps that of one's geographic and social peers.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

as a kid 40 years ago I cut grass to make extra money.
I got twenty bucks a yard...now forty years later? You can still get your grass cut for twenty to twenty five bucks.

40 Years ago in my neighborhood, it was $10 - $15 per yard. Now, it's ~$40/yard if the neighborhood kids do it, which is why I have a regular gardner instead.

Key take-away: anecdotal evidence is interesting, but not credibly indicative of much, most especially not national norms or trends, yet is is indicative of one's own personal experience, and perhaps that of one's geographic and social peers.

So you live in Texas?

 

[320 Years of History]

as a kid 40 years ago I cut grass to make extra money.
I got twenty bucks a yard...now forty years later? You can still get your grass cut for twenty to twenty five bucks.

40 Years ago in my neighborhood, it was $10 - $15 per yard. Now, it's ~$40/yard if the neighborhood kids do it, which is why I have a regular gardner instead.

Key take-away: anecdotal evidence is interesting, but not credibly indicative of much, most especially not national norms or trends, yet is is indicative of one's own personal experience, and perhaps that of one's geographic and social peers.

So you live in Texas?

No, I do not live in Texas. Texas is a very large state. Even if I were to live there, the behavior and trends in one part of the state are not assured to be those found elsewhere in Texas.

That I don't live in Texas, or that you do, isn't the point. The point of my remark is that your anecdotal observations, as with mine, about wherever you happen to be familiar with the historic and current going prices for kid-performed lawn mowing is indicative of nothing other than the fact that they are your observations. Now if you're telling me you've performed a statistically valid sampling, or that you've actually canvassed the entire population of some place (TX or otherwise), of current and past kid-performed lawn mowing prices, fine. That, then, would have relevance worth paying attention to, assuming the survey were well developed and executed, it'd be worth accepting its findings. Indeed, I'd like to see your data and survey if you did do such a thing.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

as a kid 40 years ago I cut grass to make extra money.
I got twenty bucks a yard...now forty years later? You can still get your grass cut for twenty to twenty five bucks.

40 Years ago in my neighborhood, it was $10 - $15 per yard. Now, it's ~$40/yard if the neighborhood kids do it, which is why I have a regular gardner instead.

Key take-away: anecdotal evidence is interesting, but not credibly indicative of much, most especially not national norms or trends, yet is is indicative of one's own personal experience, and perhaps that of one's geographic and social peers.

So you live in Texas?

No, I do not live in Texas. Texas is a very large state. Even if I were to live there, the behavior and trends in one part of the state are not assured to be those found elsewhere in Texas.

That I don't live in Texas, or that you do, isn't the point. The point of my remark is that your anecdotal observations, as with mine, about wherever you happen to be familiar with the historic and current going prices for kid-performed lawn mowing is indicative of nothing other than the fact that they are your observations. Now if you're telling me you've performed a statistically valid sampling, or that you've actually canvassed the entire population of some place (TX or otherwise), of current and past kid-performed lawn mowing prices, fine. That, then, would have relevance worth paying attention to, assuming the survey were well developed and executed, it'd be worth accepting its findings. Indeed, I'd like to see your data and survey if you did do such a thing.

Sorry you wasted all that time typing that.
I watched it happen and it's still happening to this day.

 

[320 Years of History]

as a kid 40 years ago I cut grass to make extra money.
I got twenty bucks a yard...now forty years later? You can still get your grass cut for twenty to twenty five bucks.

40 Years ago in my neighborhood, it was $10 - $15 per yard. Now, it's ~$40/yard if the neighborhood kids do it, which is why I have a regular gardner instead.

Key take-away: anecdotal evidence is interesting, but not credibly indicative of much, most especially not national norms or trends, yet is is indicative of one's own personal experience, and perhaps that of one's geographic and social peers.

So you live in Texas?

No, I do not live in Texas. Texas is a very large state. Even if I were to live there, the behavior and trends in one part of the state are not assured to be those found elsewhere in Texas.

That I don't live in Texas, or that you do, isn't the point. The point of my remark is that your anecdotal observations, as with mine, about wherever you happen to be familiar with the historic and current going prices for kid-performed lawn mowing is indicative of nothing other than the fact that they are your observations. Now if you're telling me you've performed a statistically valid sampling, or that you've actually canvassed the entire population of some place (TX or otherwise), of current and past kid-performed lawn mowing prices, fine. That, then, would have relevance worth paying attention to, assuming the survey were well developed and executed, it'd be worth accepting its findings. Indeed, I'd like to see your data and survey if you did do such a thing.

Sorry you wasted all that time typing that.
I watched it happen and it's still happening to this day.

Oh, yes. You watched it happen in TX; therefore it must be happening everywhere just as in TX. Yeah, sure; whatever you say. You just keep thinking that.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

as a kid 40 years ago I cut grass to make extra money.
I got twenty bucks a yard...now forty years later? You can still get your grass cut for twenty to twenty five bucks.

40 Years ago in my neighborhood, it was $10 - $15 per yard. Now, it's ~$40/yard if the neighborhood kids do it, which is why I have a regular gardner instead.

Key take-away: anecdotal evidence is interesting, but not credibly indicative of much, most especially not national norms or trends, yet is is indicative of one's own personal experience, and perhaps that of one's geographic and social peers.

So you live in Texas?

No, I do not live in Texas. Texas is a very large state. Even if I were to live there, the behavior and trends in one part of the state are not assured to be those found elsewhere in Texas.

That I don't live in Texas, or that you do, isn't the point. The point of my remark is that your anecdotal observations, as with mine, about wherever you happen to be familiar with the historic and current going prices for kid-performed lawn mowing is indicative of nothing other than the fact that they are your observations. Now if you're telling me you've performed a statistically valid sampling, or that you've actually canvassed the entire population of some place (TX or otherwise), of current and past kid-performed lawn mowing prices, fine. That, then, would have relevance worth paying attention to, assuming the survey were well developed and executed, it'd be worth accepting its findings. Indeed, I'd like to see your data and survey if you did do such a thing.

Sorry you wasted all that time typing that.
I watched it happen and it's still happening to this day.

Oh, yes. You watched it happen in TX; therefore it must be happening everywhere just as in TX. Yeah, sure; whatever you say. You just keep thinking that.

Give it time....they're getting there as fast as Barry can get em there.

 

[320 Years of History]

40 Years ago in my neighborhood, it was $10 - $15 per yard. Now, it's ~$40/yard if the neighborhood kids do it, which is why I have a regular gardner instead.

Key take-away: anecdotal evidence is interesting, but not credibly indicative of much, most especially not national norms or trends, yet is is indicative of one's own personal experience, and perhaps that of one's geographic and social peers.

So you live in Texas?

No, I do not live in Texas. Texas is a very large state. Even if I were to live there, the behavior and trends in one part of the state are not assured to be those found elsewhere in Texas.

That I don't live in Texas, or that you do, isn't the point. The point of my remark is that your anecdotal observations, as with mine, about wherever you happen to be familiar with the historic and current going prices for kid-performed lawn mowing is indicative of nothing other than the fact that they are your observations. Now if you're telling me you've performed a statistically valid sampling, or that you've actually canvassed the entire population of some place (TX or otherwise), of current and past kid-performed lawn mowing prices, fine. That, then, would have relevance worth paying attention to, assuming the survey were well developed and executed, it'd be worth accepting its findings. Indeed, I'd like to see your data and survey if you did do such a thing.

Sorry you wasted all that time typing that.
I watched it happen and it's still happening to this day.

Oh, yes. You watched it happen in TX; therefore it must be happening everywhere just as in TX. Yeah, sure; whatever you say. You just keep thinking that.

Give it time....they're getting there as fast as Barry can get em there.

Okay...I'm done with you.