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I don’t think so because they don’t really have quantifiable objectives. No one can say what winning looks like or what happens next. The military objects are mixed in with rage and retribution directed at the civilian population as much as at Hamas.No, it has always been about military objectives. They still have our people. They have said they are going to commit this atrocity over, and over, and over, a million times. It has always been about the military objectives.
That is true, but it doesn’t stop any of us from speculating and blaming and it doesn’t mean we should uncritically accept everything Israel does as righteous and above board. They are a nation and like any other nation they have their own national interests (or political interests) to look to as well.It is absolutely possible it could have been done with less loss of life. But I don't know how it could possibly be judged from where we are sitting at our computers, without a WHOLE lot more information that won't likely be available to us (you and I) for months, if not years.
Is it an assumption? Or a question that needs to be asked?It is the assumption of intent that you place on the Israelis that I find offensive.
What about the hostages?The numbers of Hamas Fighters surrendering has increased in last 24 hours , speculation is that the Combat Operations in Gaza could gravitate to Pacification and mop up in TWO WEEKS !
There are a lot of innocent people who deserve our focus.You try so hard to justify what Muslim barbarians did to innocent Jews.
What about the hostages the Muslims are torturing this very minute? THAT is where the focus should be.
It is Hamas responsibility to return them.What about the hostages?
I’m asking on whether there is any further word on them. Unfortunately they aren’t all held by Hamas.It is Hamas responsibility to return them.
Oh, on the contrary the objectives are clear and quantifiable:I don’t think so because they don’t really have quantifiable objectives. No one can say what winning looks like or what happens next.
I think that is true. I know I've been full of unending rage for all these weeks now. Hard to watch ordinary Gazans spitting on your broken, mutilated, young women. Hard to imagine all the other atrocities being celebrated. But, I can't say how this translates, exactly, into military actions on the whole. I do believe Israel is doing what it can to limit civilian casualties, and not committing, as a whole, wanton killing of civilians. I think there will be stories coming out in the months and years ahead of individual exceptions to this, horrific acts that individual soldiers committed.The military objects are mixed in with rage and retribution directed at the civilian population as much as at Hamas.
Agreed.That is true, but it doesn’t stop any of us from speculating and blaming and it doesn’t mean we should uncritically accept everything Israel does as righteous and above board.
Ugh. Don't make me research Israeli politics! The lowest layer of hell. Ugh.Why don’t you look at what has been coming out of this government since they came into power in both words and actions (and inactions). And even before they came into power. And look at the man in power who is willing to corrupt Israel in order to satisfy religious extremists who’s support is the only thing allowing him to remain in power?
If you were an Israeli who watched his pawpaw's head get chopped off with a garden hoe, after meemaw was raped with the handle?If I saw my family and friends suffer the oppression and humiliation, I would probably retaliate myself.
Oh, on the contrary the objectives are clear and quantifiable:
1. Return of every. single. hostage. (Or their remains).
2. Hamas surrender.
3. Destruction of all weapons and infrastructure that is used to harm Israeli civilians.
What happens next is a different question. Gaza can't be left in chaos without a governing authority. That authority being Israel, or some other country, or if Gaza can somehow, by some miracle, put together a viable, peaceful government, are all options. Personally, I think a conditional mandate by another Arab nation until Gaza can develop and choose water, is the best for the people of Gaza and Israel. But will another Arab nation step up? I think it unlikely. Which pretty much leaves Israel without a lot of choices except to apply sovereignty temporarily or permanently. Israel doesn't have a whole lot of options here. Hamas responsibility.
I think that is true. I know I've been full of unending rage for all these weeks now. Hard to watch ordinary Gazans spitting on your broken, mutilated, young women. Hard to imagine all the other atrocities being celebrated.
But, I can't say how this translates, exactly, into military actions on the whole. I do believe Israel is doing what it can to limit civilian casualties, and not committing, as a whole, wanton killing of civilians. I think there will be stories coming out in the months and years ahead of individual exceptions to this, horrific acts that individual soldiers committed.
Agreed.
Ugh. Don't make me research Israeli politics! The lowest layer of hell. Ugh.
Do you remember the source? I'll read it.I’m not convinced. One article I read outlined several different strategies they could use that would be slower but result in fewer civilian casualties. My opinion is that their attempts to genuinely limit civilian casualties are too little too late and due to pressure from allies.
I’ll lookDo you remember the source? I'll read it.
Found it:Do you remember the source? I'll read it.
Paywalled.Found it:
U.S. Officials Outline Steps to Israel to Reduce Civilian Casualties
The measures include using smaller bombs against Hamas, U.S. officials said.www.nytimes.com
The NYT is extremely leftist and biased against Israel.Found it:
U.S. Officials Outline Steps to Israel to Reduce Civilian Casualties
The measures include using smaller bombs against Hamas, U.S. officials said.www.nytimes.com
crap….Paywalled.
6,600 Gaza children have been killed, likely more buried under the rubble. 17,700 civilians killed so far.The NYT is extremely leftist and biased against Israel.
Given the atrocities the Muslim terrorists committed against innocent Jews, combined with the appalling fact that 85% of Palestinians SUPPORT the barbaric murder of Jews committed by the savages - yes, they qualify as savages - I think Israel is showing amazing humanity by trying to reduce the civilian deaths at all. Remember, the majority of them want the Jews DEAD.
That’s what leftists do: just compare numbers.6,600 Gaza children have been killed, likely more buried under the rubble. 17,700 civilians killed so far.
You realize, don’t you, that that poll was conducted over a month after Israel started bombing Gaza? When the death
the toll was already in excess of 15,000? Think that might influence opinion?
Wrong to assume Gazans support Hamas atrocities | READER COMMENTARY
Palestinians in Gaza Strip have, at best, mixed views of Hamas and many were appalled by October 7 terrorism.www.baltimoresun.com
While recent surveys carried out after Oct. 7 indicate that the majority of people in Gaza support the recent horrendous attack against Israeli civilians, the attitudes of the people in Gaza before Oct. 7 were very different. An article in the Foreign Affairs Magazine (Oct. 25) published by the Foreign Affairs Council presented the results of a comprehensive survey carried out in Gaza between Sept. 28 and Oct. 6, 2023, indicating that it is a mistake to conclude that the majority of Gazans were complicit with or supportive of the atrocities carried out by Hamas.
In the survey, most Gazans did not align themselves with Hamas’ ideology and have little or no confidence in the corrupt Hamas-led government, and the majority of Gazans did not share Hamas’ goal of eliminating the state of Israel. Of those surveyed, 73% favored a peaceful solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict, and the majority favored the two-state solution outlined in the 1993 Oslo accords.
That’s what leftists do: just compare numbers.
I’ll refer back to the article I quoted that you ignored.HAMAS has promised to keep repeating October 7th until they’ve killed all Jews. Israel must do what is needed to make sure these barbarians are put down, forever. Israel Is showing amazing RESTRAINT against the Palestinians given that the majority of them SUPPORT the Jew-genocide objective of HAMAS.
If Israel did not give the PalestInians who want them dead warnings and escape routes, more would have died. It is the exact opposite of what HAMAS did.