Islam is only known from its scholarship

[Muslim75]

I speak of the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Islam is only known from its rich and complex scholarship.

It is not known from the works and the bools found in an Islamic library, not from the Qur'an or the Hadiths (the Hadiths are the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family). If the Qur'an and the Hadiths make about 20 or 30 books, they are just a foundation and a basis. An Islamic library is filled with countless books; Islam is only known from these countless books.

The Qur'an says: "it is only those that have knowledge that fear God".

This does not mean only the regular knowledge acquired in the books. It means more, as the Qur'an says: "Said one who has knowledge of the Book, I will bring it (the throne of Bilqis) to you (Solomon) within a twinkling of an eye". Muhammad also says: "the knowledgeable men (scholars) are the inheritors of the prophets". This means what is meant by "knowledge" is more than just what you find in the books, it is also what you can not find in any books; the special knowledge thanks to which one becomes like the prophets, flying in the air, walking on water, visiting the heavens and coming back as one wishes, saying "be" to anything and it will be, etc....

Those who possess such knowledge are the saints of Islam. They come at each century until the end of time, because there are no prophets after Muhammad. Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets, the last of all prophets and the best of them (including Jesus, Moses and Abraham). Whoso does not have such knowledge, though he has vast Islamic knowledge of other kind, is incomplete. Islam is defined by its scholarship, and especially by the scholarship of the saints of Islam, who fly in the air, walk on water, visit the heavens as they wish, say "be" to anything and it will be.

Isis, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and the other groups of the like do not represent Islam in any way whatsoever. Muhammad and his Companions, like the saints of Islam, flew in the air, walked on water, visited the heavens as they wished, said "be" to anything and it was, etc...

 

[Muslim75]

It is not known from the works and the bools found in an Islamic library

I meant: "It is known from the works and the books found in an Islamic library".

 

[Dajjal]

The Quran is supposed to be the words of God, and you are trying to tell us that you cannot know Islam from reading it. As far as I can see the Quran and Hadiths are considered the main basis of Islam by most Muslims.
But you want to tell us that we have to read an entire library of books by mere mortal men for understanding , and we can disregard the words of God in the Quran. You also say that we need Islamic saints to interpret the Quran for us.

It seems to me you are trying to make it as hard as possible to work out what Islam is all about.

For me it is quite a lot simpler. I read the Quran and find it the obvious lies of a false prophet.

My reasons are many, and they include the certainty that any kind of supreme being would not burn people in everlasting hellfire. Since the Quran lays on the torments of hell as thick as treacle I conclude that Muhammad was trying to scare people into obeying him with fear of Allah.

 

[there4eyeM]

The more we insist to others, the clearer we demonstrate our doubt.
But it is good that the poster doubts, as well he/she might, for there is much to doubt in what is presented.

 

[Avatar4321]

This makes little to no sense.

 

[RandomVariable]

It is not known from the works and the bools found in an Islamic library

I meant: "It is known from the works and the books found in an Islamic library".

Holy cow! M75 replied to someone. Oh, wait... Well, it is the only person who matters to him.

 

[Muslim75]

RandomVariable,

Stop lying.

 

[Muslim75]

This is for those who want to know about Islam, because there are so many different Islams in the world. Those people may refer to the opening post.

There is no need to read an entire library. If you want the basic and the core issues, there are special books for that. If you want to know about more specific topics, there are also special books for that. Islamic scholarship is vast and complex. No man in his mind reads the Qur'an or the Hadiths to know about Islam. It may give you an idea as a Christian or Jew about your Muslim brothers; but if this is your intent I would suggest getting to know them personally, not through the Qur'an or the Hadiths. The Qur'an and the Hadiths serve very precise purposes.

 

[Hollie]

I speak of the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Islam is only known from its rich and complex scholarship.

It is not known from the works and the bools found in an Islamic library, not from the Qur'an or the Hadiths (the Hadiths are the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family). If the Qur'an and the Hadiths make about 20 or 30 books, they are just a foundation and a basis. An Islamic library is filled with countless books; Islam is only known from these countless books.

The Qur'an says: "it is only those that have knowledge that fear God".

This does not mean only the regular knowledge acquired in the books. It means more, as the Qur'an says: "Said one who has knowledge of the Book, I will bring it (the throne of Bilqis) to you (Solomon) within a twinkling of an eye". Muhammad also says: "the knowledgeable men (scholars) are the inheritors of the prophets". This means what is meant by "knowledge" is more than just what you find in the books, it is also what you can not find in any books; the special knowledge thanks to which one becomes like the prophets, flying in the air, walking on water, visiting the heavens and coming back as one wishes, saying "be" to anything and it will be, etc....

Those who possess such knowledge are the saints of Islam. They come at each century until the end of time, because there are no prophets after Muhammad. Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets, the last of all prophets and the best of them (including Jesus, Moses and Abraham). Whoso does not have such knowledge, though he has vast Islamic knowledge of other kind, is incomplete. Islam is defined by its scholarship, and especially by the scholarship of the saints of Islam, who fly in the air, walk on water, visit the heavens as they wish, say "be" to anything and it will be.

Isis, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and the other groups of the like do not represent Islam in any way whatsoever. Muhammad and his Companions, like the saints of Islam, flew in the air, walked on water, visited the heavens as they wished, said "be" to anything and it was, etc...

I'm afraid the boy is suffering from the affects of the debilitating disease known as Fisking

Urban Dictionary Fisking

Fisking
The word is derived from articles written by Robert Fisk that were easily refuted, and refers to a point-by-point debunking of lies and/or idiocies.

 

[RandomVariable]

RandomVariable,

Stop lying.

When you refer to me and lying you are going to have to be a lot more specific. There is just too much ground to cover.

 

[RandomVariable]

This is for those who want to know about Islam, because there are so many different Islams in the world. Those people may refer to the opening post.

There is no need to read an entire library. If you want the basic and the core issues, there are special books for that. If you want to know about more specific topics, there are also special books for that. Islamic scholarship is vast and complex. No man in his mind reads the Qur'an or the Hadiths to know about Islam. It may give you an idea as a Christian or Jew about your Muslim brothers; but if this is your intent I would suggest getting to know them personally, not through the Qur'an or the Hadiths. The Qur'an and the Hadiths serve very precise purposes.

You most likely missed my post, it was a great post too, where I mentioned I have been married for the last twenty years to a Shiite Muslim, raised in Iran and schooled in the one of best Islamic schools. I might know more about Islam than you do. I know for a fact she does. I also talk to God, which kind of gives me a leg up on this whole mess.

 

[Muslim75]

I speak of the traditional knowledge in Islam.

Islam is only known from its scholarship.


"Follow the way of those who turn to me in love."

The Holy Qur'an, Luqman (Surah 31), V 15


As the verse says, Islam is about love. Islam is about loving God, Most Glorious, Most High, who Himself loves His creatures. This Islam is taught by the saints of Islam.

The saints of Islam are like the prophets and the best prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). They fly in the air, walk on water, visit the heavens as they wish, say "be" to a thing and it will be, etc...They come on earth at each century after Muhammad and his Companions, until the end of time, because Muhammad came on earth as the very last of all prophets.

The other scholars who insist on Islamic law (how to pray, how to fast, how much money to give and when, etc...) teach only one part of Islam, though they are in majority.

Imam Shafi, who is one of the 4 great scholars from whom we take the Holy Islamic Law, is a saint of Islam; just like the other 3 great scholars of the Holy Islamic Law, Imam Malik, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Ahmad Hanbal. They are saints of Islam.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shafi‘i
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muwatta_Imam_Malik
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abū_Ḥanīfa
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Hanbal

 

[Dajjal]

"Follow the way of those who turn to me in love."

The Holy Qur'an, Luqman (Surah 31), V 15

You left out the brackets. If you are using the Yusuf Ali translation then he added the words "in love" . They do not appear in the actual translated text. It should read-

Follow the way of those who turn to me (in love).

The Pickthall translation reads - "and follow the path of him who repents unto me."

No mention of love there.

 

[Donald Polish]

Islam seems to be a controversial religion. i do not know does it happen because of Quran or muslim scholars. However it is hard to find any unity inside the whole Muslim community. They have been splitting during their existence constantly. That is why exactly Muslim countries have become the instrument of the Western politics.

 

[Muslim75]

"Follow the way of those who turn to me in love."

The Holy Qur'an, Luqman (Surah 31), V 15

You left out the brackets. If you are using the Yusuf Ali translation then he added the words "in love" . They do not appear in the actual translated text. It should read-

Follow the way of those who turn to me (in love).

The Pickthall translation reads - "and follow the path of him who repents unto me."

No mention of love there.

If you were to translate it word per word, not caring that this is Arabic, it would be:

Tabi sabeela man anaaba Ilayya: Follow the way of those who turn to Me.

"Turn to Me" does not possibly indicate anything but love. That is why the translator felt it necessary to add: "in love". Whether it is between brackets or not is not important.

Whoso failed to mention the idea of love in his translation has cheated the English speaking readers. This has absolutely nothing to do with repentance.

 

[Dajjal]

"Follow the way of those who turn to me in love."

The Holy Qur'an, Luqman (Surah 31), V 15

You left out the brackets. If you are using the Yusuf Ali translation then he added the words "in love" . They do not appear in the actual translated text. It should read-

Follow the way of those who turn to me (in love).

The Pickthall translation reads - "and follow the path of him who repents unto me."

No mention of love there.

If you were to translate it word per word, not caring that this is Arabic, it would be:

Tabi sabeela man anaaba Ilayya: Follow the way of those who turn to Me.

"Turn to Me" does not possibly indicate anything but love. That is why the translator felt it necessary to add: "in love". Whether it is between brackets or not is not important.

Whoso failed to mention the idea of love in his translation has cheated the English speaking readers. This has absolutely nothing to do with repentance.

Lets just agree that the word 'love' does not appear in the original Arabic.

 

[Oldstyle]

I've got news for you...Islam is now known for intolerance and violent acts. You've lost control of your religion because you looked the other way while extremists committed hate crimes in your name. Shame on them...and shame on you!

 

[Muslim75]

Islam seems to be a controversial religion. i do not know does it happen because of Quran or muslim scholars. However it is hard to find any unity inside the whole Muslim community. They have been splitting during their existence constantly. That is why exactly Muslim countries have become the instrument of the Western politics.

No country in the world is the instrument of Western politics. What you consider influence is just influence, interest or strategy.

Lets just agree that the word 'love' does not appear in the original Arabic.

We'll only agree that to you Dajjal, there is no mention of the concept of love in that phrase.

I've got news for you...Islam is now known for intolerance and violent acts. You've lost control of your religion because you looked the other way while extremists committed hate crimes in your name. Shame on them...and shame on you!

Islam is only known for intolerance and violence by people like you who fear extremists. Make it known to yourself.

 

[Oldstyle]

Islam seems to be a controversial religion. i do not know does it happen because of Quran or muslim scholars. However it is hard to find any unity inside the whole Muslim community. They have been splitting during their existence constantly. That is why exactly Muslim countries have become the instrument of the Western politics.

No country in the world is the instrument of Western politics. What you consider influence is just influence, interest or strategy.

Lets just agree that the word 'love' does not appear in the original Arabic.

We'll only agree that to you Dajjal, there is no mention of the concept of love in that phrase.

I've got news for you...Islam is now known for intolerance and violent acts. You've lost control of your religion because you looked the other way while extremists committed hate crimes in your name. Shame on them...and shame on you!

Islam is only known for intolerance and violence by people like you who fear extremists. Make it known to yourself.

Let this be "known" to you...I carry a concealed weapon because of Islamic extremists and will take great pleasure at shooting the first masked, knife wielding asshole I see yelling "Allah Akbar".

As for learning about Islam? I'm an agnostic. I don't want to learn about Islam. I don't want to learn about Judaism or Buddhism either. What makes you people think that you have the right to force others to learn and obey YOUR beliefs?

 

[Muslim75]

Islam seems to be a controversial religion. i do not know does it happen because of Quran or muslim scholars. However it is hard to find any unity inside the whole Muslim community. They have been splitting during their existence constantly. That is why exactly Muslim countries have become the instrument of the Western politics.

No country in the world is the instrument of Western politics. What you consider influence is just influence, interest or strategy.

Lets just agree that the word 'love' does not appear in the original Arabic.

We'll only agree that to you Dajjal, there is no mention of the concept of love in that phrase.

I've got news for you...Islam is now known for intolerance and violent acts. You've lost control of your religion because you looked the other way while extremists committed hate crimes in your name. Shame on them...and shame on you!

Islam is only known for intolerance and violence by people like you who fear extremists. Make it known to yourself.

Let this be "known" to you...I carry a concealed weapon because of Islamic extremists and will take great pleasure at shooting the first masked, knife wielding asshole I see yelling "Allah Akbar".

As for learning about Islam? I'm an agnostic. I don't want to learn about Islam. I don't want to learn about Judaism or Buddhism either. What makes you people think that you have the right to force others to learn and obey YOUR beliefs?

It is very unfortunate that whenever Al Qaeda or ISIS commits a crime, people respond to them with interest and some sort of acknowledgement. They commit crimes, and people of all faiths love them in return, in a way.

You should not have the impression that I am inviting you to learn about Islam. As you can see from the thread title, the purpose of the thread is to make a refutation.

As to believing or not believing in God, God is with you even if you can not realise it. The existence of god is proven. Its proof is His act. Footprints would indicate a walker; likewise rain, the vast pathways in the sky above you, or the constellations of the Zodiac are clear indications about the existence of a Unique Almighty God (who is of course above any form of humanness).