Is it time to legalize pot and reduce the death rate of tobacco and alcohol?

[Mr. Shaman]

Actually the question is what does drug use do to our society? Is it good or bad?
The obvious answer is bad. So if we want to tackle the issue we need to adopt some time tested solutions.
Rounding up drug dealers and executing them after a fair trial sounds pretty reasonable to me. The risk of engaging in that business far exceeds the reward for most people. Ergo they'll largely stop.

I think that argument of yours can be applied to Heroin, Crack, Cocaine, Meth (all four highly addictive, all four have noticeably worse degenerative effects on the body, all four you can overdose and die from, all four not created from a single organic entity but instead a huge list of carcinogens) but why do you think it applies to pot?

I’d like to know why you think criminalizing pot is worth spending billions and billions and billions of dollars on each year, worth throwing people in jail for (which I have to pay for out of my paycheck), and worth the real side effect of giving street gangs and cartels leverage and power...

I fail to see why the dangers of pot outweigh all of those things. Doctors prescribe the darn thing to cancer patients, and patients with chronic pain; how dangerous can it be?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWZrE8akpg0]Retirees demand marijuana - YouTube[/ame]
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hQDNakG-h0]DADDIO speaks out for marijuana to Seniors - YouTube[/ame]
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvGKZQQskLQ&feature=related]Melissa Etheridge: Medical marijuana helped restore my health - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[LibertyForAll]

Actually the question is what does drug use do to our society? Is it good or bad?
The obvious answer is bad. So if we want to tackle the issue we need to adopt some time tested solutions.
Rounding up drug dealers and executing them after a fair trial sounds pretty reasonable to me. The risk of engaging in that business far exceeds the reward for most people. Ergo they'll largely stop.

What are the effects of a government that rounds up people and executes them on society? Is that really a society you want to live in? What will happen when people get desensitized to the deaths?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You addressed tobacco, not alcohol. First you say what do you think tobacco is and when your fallacy was pointed out, changed it to alcohol. We don't let people drink and drive, nor drink and fly planes. Do you think we will prohibit smoking pot and driving? Or, smoking pot and flying a plane? There are school bus drivers smoking on the job! There are train engineers smoking pot on the train, and crashing those trains.

Legalize ALL drugs and make it so low cost that it is affordable to anyone who wants to use whatever kind they want to use.

I used to be against drug legalization but no more. Drug use is self limiting. Users tend to die young. A cop friend pointed that out to me. He noticed that most deaths among young adults was drug related. It's a way to humanely eliminate the drug user problem. Not the drug problem, but the drug user problem.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....a cop friend! I was wondering where all that (other) bullshit was coming-from. I guess everyone's gotta try to generate as much job-security as they can manage....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Twre6ItGEI]Dragnet Jack Webb "Alcohol VS. Marijuana & LSD" Great Speech - YouTube[/ame]

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Then, ya' got REALITY!!!!!


CopsSayLegalizeDrugs's Channel - YouTube​

My friend has been retired for a number of years. So there's no job security. My observations of drug users were in connection with the cases I handled for them, and the nonsense called diversion imposed by the courts. My friend pointed out that the majority of drug related deaths he came in contact with were of young adults. Celebrity deaths of young stars are decidedly drug related. Whitney Houston was 48 when she drank and drugged herself to death and that was pretty old considering most of these young stars die at around 29.

.....But, not from smokin' Pot.​

 

[Katzndogz]

Legitimate doctors do not prescribe pot for anything. Marijuana clinic doctors prescribe pot. In most cases, legitimate doctors stop treating patients that start using pot. Which is kind of a benefit if you think about it.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Since pot impairs judgment to begin with...

To what degree and in what manner? My experience over the last 40 years tells me that marijuana use lessens aggression, stimulates thought and relaxes the body. Multiple studies have shown that pot smokers are actually SAFER drivers than the typical 9-5 rush hour maniacs out there.

I tend to use cruise control a lot, and I'm always annoyed/amused at the typical commuter's "Gas pedal/Brake pedal frustrations. If they'd smoke a bowl before they drive they'll chill out, slow down and SAVE lives.

 

[Katzndogz]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....a cop friend! I was wondering where all that (other) bullshit was coming-from. I guess everyone's gotta try to generate as much job-security as they can manage....

Dragnet Jack Webb "Alcohol VS. Marijuana & LSD" Great Speech - YouTube

* * * *

Then, ya' got REALITY!!!!!


CopsSayLegalizeDrugs's Channel - YouTube​

My friend has been retired for a number of years. So there's no job security. My observations of drug users were in connection with the cases I handled for them, and the nonsense called diversion imposed by the courts. My friend pointed out that the majority of drug related deaths he came in contact with were of young adults. Celebrity deaths of young stars are decidedly drug related. Whitney Houston was 48 when she drank and drugged herself to death and that was pretty old considering most of these young stars die at around 29.

.....But, not from smokin' Pot.​

Nope, that's why it all needs to be legalized.

Not all, but a significant number of pot smokers will move on to something else. Which is the best result./

 

[Katzndogz]

Since pot impairs judgment to begin with...

To what degree and in what manner? My experience over the last 40 years tells me that marijuana use lessens aggression, stimulates thought and relaxes the body. Multiple studies have shown that pot smokers are actually SAFER drivers than the typical 9-5 rush hour maniacs out there.

I tend to use cruise control a lot, and I'm always annoyed/amused at the typical commuter's "Gas pedal/Brake pedal frustrations. If they'd smoke a bowl before they drive they'll chill out, slow down and SAVE lives.

Sounds like an alcoholic maintaining they drive better drunk than sober.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Since pot impairs judgment to begin with...

To what degree and in what manner? My experience over the last 40 years tells me that marijuana use lessens aggression, stimulates thought and relaxes the body. Multiple studies have shown that pot smokers are actually SAFER drivers than the typical 9-5 rush hour maniacs out there.

I tend to use cruise control a lot, and I'm always annoyed/amused at the typical commuter's "Gas pedal/Brake pedal frustrations. If they'd smoke a bowl before they drive they'll chill out, slow down and SAVE lives.

Sounds like an alcoholic maintaining they drive better drunk than sober.

Nope, I drive like shit when I'm drunk. All the DUI laws in the world won't stop some people from driving home from the bar while shitfaced.

Edited to add: I know, let's close down all the BARS!! Like THAT idea ever worked....

The truth is, you could smoke $100 worth of weed and STILL drive better than someone who drank $5 worth of alcohol.

 

[BlindBoo]

Since pot impairs judgment to begin with...

To what degree and in what manner? My experience over the last 40 years tells me that marijuana use lessens aggression, stimulates thought and relaxes the body. Multiple studies have shown that pot smokers are actually SAFER drivers than the typical 9-5 rush hour maniacs out there.

I tend to use cruise control a lot, and I'm always annoyed/amused at the typical commuter's "Gas pedal/Brake pedal frustrations. If they'd smoke a bowl before they drive they'll chill out, slow down and SAVE lives.

Sounds like an alcoholic maintaining they drive better drunk than sober.

But it's not.

Driving Stoned: Safer Than Driving Drunk? - ABC News

Drivers who get behind the wheel stoned instead of drunk may actually be making the roads safer in states that allow medical marijuana, according to new research.

Economists Daniel Rees of the University of Colorado Denver and Mark Anderson of Montana State University looked at traffic fatalities in thirteen states that enacted medical marijuana laws between 1990 and 2009. They found that on average, traffic fatalities in those states fell nearly 9 percent after medical pot became legal.

“What’s going on is that young adults– especially males– were drinking less when medical marijuana became legal,” Rees tells ABC News, pointing to data from the Beer Institute that showed a drop in beer sales in states with new medical marijuana laws. “You legalize medical marijuana and the highways become safer.”

Why? Rees and Anderson have two theories........

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Legitimate doctors do not prescribe pot for anything. Marijuana clinic doctors prescribe pot. In most cases, legitimate doctors stop treating patients that start using pot. Which is kind of a benefit if you think about it.

I'm sure the pharmaceutical-indu$try agrees with you.

 

[BlindBoo]

Actually the question is what does drug use do to our society? Is it good or bad?
The obvious answer is bad. So if we want to tackle the issue we need to adopt some time tested solutions.
Rounding up drug dealers and executing them after a fair trial sounds pretty reasonable to me. The risk of engaging in that business far exceeds the reward for most people. Ergo they'll largely stop.

Good for what ails ya. Better living through chemistry.

Yeah there was a country once that killed people for smoking tobacco too.

Fascist you. Imagine that.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Since pot impairs judgment to begin with...

To what degree and in what manner? My experience over the last 40 years tells me that marijuana use lessens aggression, stimulates thought and relaxes the body.

.....And, there's a LOT-to-be-said for minimizing STRESS!!!!​

I tend to use cruise control a lot, and I'm always annoyed/amused at the typical commuter's "Gas pedal/Brake pedal frustrations. If they'd smoke a bowl before they drive they'll chill out, slow down and SAVE lives.

Hell.....takin' a few "hits", along-the-way, surely would/does make those (long-distance/obstruction-free) drives, thru Kansas & Nebraska, a lot more tolerable!!!!​

 

[Dr.Drock]

Since pot impairs judgment to begin with...

To what degree and in what manner? My experience over the last 40 years tells me that marijuana use lessens aggression, stimulates thought and relaxes the body. Multiple studies have shown that pot smokers are actually SAFER drivers than the typical 9-5 rush hour maniacs out there.

I tend to use cruise control a lot, and I'm always annoyed/amused at the typical commuter's "Gas pedal/Brake pedal frustrations. If they'd smoke a bowl before they drive they'll chill out, slow down and SAVE lives.

Sounds like an alcoholic maintaining they drive better drunk than sober.

Marijuana: Study Finds Minimal Changes in Driving Performance After Smoking | StoptheDrugWar.org

According to clinical trial data published in the March issue of the Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, subjects tested both before and after smoking marijuana exhibited virtually identical driving skills in a battery of driving simulator tests. Researchers in the double-blind, placebo-controlled trial tested 85 subjects -- 50 men and 35 women -- on simulated driving performance. The subjects had to respond to simulations of various events associated with vehicle crash risk, such as deciding whether to stop or go through a changing traffic light, avoiding a driver entering an intersection illegally, and responding to the presence of emergency vehicles. Subjects were tested sober and again a half hour after having smoked a single medium-potency (2.9% THC) joint or a placebo.

There are studies that have different results, but these studies here exist as well that back what the poster said.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

My friend has been retired for a number of years. So there's no job security. My observations of drug users were in connection with the cases I handled for them, and the nonsense called diversion imposed by the courts. My friend pointed out that the majority of drug related deaths he came in contact with were of young adults. Celebrity deaths of young stars are decidedly drug related. Whitney Houston was 48 when she drank and drugged herself to death and that was pretty old considering most of these young stars die at around 29.

.....But, not from smokin' Pot.​

Nope, that's why it all needs to be legalized.

Not all, but a significant number of pot smokers will move on to something else.

Yeah.....where would we be, without all o' those assumptions/Absolutes?

You don't KNOW as much as you think you do.​

 

[Katzndogz]

To what degree and in what manner? My experience over the last 40 years tells me that marijuana use lessens aggression, stimulates thought and relaxes the body. Multiple studies have shown that pot smokers are actually SAFER drivers than the typical 9-5 rush hour maniacs out there.

I tend to use cruise control a lot, and I'm always annoyed/amused at the typical commuter's "Gas pedal/Brake pedal frustrations. If they'd smoke a bowl before they drive they'll chill out, slow down and SAVE lives.

Sounds like an alcoholic maintaining they drive better drunk than sober.

But it's not.

Driving Stoned: Safer Than Driving Drunk? - ABC News

Drivers who get behind the wheel stoned instead of drunk may actually be making the roads safer in states that allow medical marijuana, according to new research.

Economists Daniel Rees of the University of Colorado Denver and Mark Anderson of Montana State University looked at traffic fatalities in thirteen states that enacted medical marijuana laws between 1990 and 2009. They found that on average, traffic fatalities in those states fell nearly 9 percent after medical pot became legal.

“What’s going on is that young adults– especially males– were drinking less when medical marijuana became legal,” Rees tells ABC News, pointing to data from the Beer Institute that showed a drop in beer sales in states with new medical marijuana laws. “You legalize medical marijuana and the highways become safer.”

Why? Rees and Anderson have two theories........

What a shame that it hasn't worked that way in California where medical marijuana has been legal for a number of years now.

The laws in CA don't differentiate between alcohol and drugs. It's all driving under the influence so there's no way to really tell what's alcohol related and what's drug or even pot related. The only sad thing is that under the influence fatalities usually involve an innocent person who hasn't used anything. It's the price we have to pay, for awhile at least.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Since pot impairs judgment to begin with...

To what degree and in what manner? My experience over the last 40 years tells me that marijuana use lessens aggression, stimulates thought and relaxes the body. Multiple studies have shown that pot smokers are actually SAFER drivers than the typical 9-5 rush hour maniacs out there.

I tend to use cruise control a lot, and I'm always annoyed/amused at the typical commuter's "Gas pedal/Brake pedal frustrations. If they'd smoke a bowl before they drive they'll chill out, slow down and SAVE lives.

Sounds like an alcoholic maintaining they drive better drunk than sober.

.....And, you're more-familiar with his physiology, than he is, right??

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Sounds like an alcoholic maintaining they drive better drunk than sober.

But it's not.

Driving Stoned: Safer Than Driving Drunk? - ABC News

Drivers who get behind the wheel stoned instead of drunk may actually be making the roads safer in states that allow medical marijuana, according to new research.

Economists Daniel Rees of the University of Colorado Denver and Mark Anderson of Montana State University looked at traffic fatalities in thirteen states that enacted medical marijuana laws between 1990 and 2009. They found that on average, traffic fatalities in those states fell nearly 9 percent after medical pot became legal.

“What’s going on is that young adults– especially males– were drinking less when medical marijuana became legal,” Rees tells ABC News, pointing to data from the Beer Institute that showed a drop in beer sales in states with new medical marijuana laws. “You legalize medical marijuana and the highways become safer.”

Why? Rees and Anderson have two theories........

What a shame that it hasn't worked that way in California where medical marijuana has been legal for a number of years now.

The laws in CA don't differentiate between alcohol and drugs. It's all driving under the influence so there's no way to really tell what's alcohol related and what's drug or even pot related. The only sad thing is that under the influence fatalities usually involve an innocent person who hasn't used anything. It's the price we have to pay, for awhile at least.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvPk813tQ3g]Law Enforcement Against Prohibition to So. Cal. Retirees: "Legalize all drugs." - YouTube[/ame]
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[Mr. Shaman]

Legitimate doctors do not prescribe pot for anything. Marijuana clinic doctors prescribe pot. In most cases, legitimate doctors stop treating patients that start using pot. Which is kind of a benefit if you think about it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTXoUsYcvNU&feature=related]BREAKING NEWS! Man Overdoses on Marijuana - VOTE YES ON PROP 19! - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[KevinWestern]

Legitimate doctors do not prescribe pot for anything. Marijuana clinic doctors prescribe pot. In most cases, legitimate doctors stop treating patients that start using pot. Which is kind of a benefit if you think about it.

First of all, I disagree with you in your claim that no “legitimate doctors” prescribe pot.

But that aside, you can’t argue with the fact that there’s a legitimate medical debate going on right now where one side (with some very credible medical experts, doctors) are saying “yes”, this can be beneficial to our health in certain scenarios, and the other side is more skeptical. But the point is, it’s a debate. And I assure you,that sort of debate is not going on with meth, or crack, or cocaine, or heroin. Why do you think that?

Even with all that aside, I don't have to prove that pot is beneficial to legalize it, I just have to prove that it’s not particularly harmful or destructive to a society. Because if it's not particularly harmful or destructive to society, then its not worth billions and billions of dollars policing and locking people up for.

I've never heard a compelling argument why pot - in particular - is worth all the costs of criminalization, and worth the cost of giving power (again) to the street gangs and cartels.

No one advocates driving under the influence of any drug, but with pot legalized there will still be rules. Also, even without pot legalized people are still going to smoke it and drive under the influence anyways! So again, where's the benefit of keeping it illegal?

 

[Katzndogz]

You do realize you are addressing someone who wants pot legalized don't you? As well as every other drug out there. Legalize it all. If a doctor (like so many that I know) refuses to further treat a patient who is utilizing pot thereapy, this is an issue between the patient and the doctor. I might point out that this is a risk, but it is a risk that the pot user takes. In no way should any individual or government force a patient from making this medical decision for themselves. Nor should a doctor be forced to treat a patient they believe is engaging in behavior that presents a health risk.

Individuals should be absolutely free to determine for themselves whether they want to take drugs or associate with drug users including potheads. My goodness, I don't! In the little corner of the world I live in, there is no pot use at all. I don't associate with Americans, but choose from among those cultures that have strong societal and cultural prohibitions against drug use. It's not something I notice, except for the occasional glee when I hear of a drug related death. It's one more user off the streets.