Is America Doomed to Become a Failed European-Style Welfare State?

[Theowl32]

Our class has been assigned a paper on the welfare state. Could a knowledgeable conservative please post a list of modern, non-wefare states that are successful? Hurry please, the paper is due Monday.

People on welfare are what make states successful?

I think you ought to make that the subject and prove how by expanding people on food stamps, has actually made states successful.

Can you show us the stats? Wait, you will show me some stats that leave out a bunch of shit, cause we all know stats are indeed like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive and what they conceal is vital.

You liberals love to leave out factors in order to fit some ignorant narrative in order to placate your socialist puppet masters. In this case, the fact you insinuate that the people on welfare are what make the states successful is a real stretch. Then again, you had the moron ny carbineer thank you for that.

Well, let us know how those people make states successful. Thanks.

 

[jasonnfree]

.

It'll end up a Euro-social democracy, which is the goal of many.

Failed? Well, who knows. We're sure as hell going to find out.

.

European -social democracy sounds pretty good to me. Free wi-fi, unions members that sit on the board of directors in countries like Germany. Germany also didn't send all their nation's work to china for corporate profit either like we did. National health care for all, using the countries resources like oil to provide for education like some scandinavian countries do. Now here, some of our young face a lifetime of debt in their search for higher education. To seal their fate, conservatives under bush presidency, passed bills to ensure such debt couldn't be discharged in bankruptcy. Enough demorats went along with this of course. The word conservative in this country at least stands for conserving all the wealth and income gains for the very wealthy and giant corporations. Am I for socialism? Well, without socialism, we wouldn't have social security and medicare. I wonder really how many conservatives would like to get rid of these socialist programs even if they had to take care of their old folks like in days of old.

 

[Theowl32]

Most European nations are not failures.

Oh, so you too agree we should have strict border policies too like them?

Real simple question. Do not think for one second that I do not notice you hypocrties avoiding that aspect of those european countries that you all love so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk_...hought. You have no debate skills dickbreath.

 

[jasonnfree]

Germany is a European "Welfare State"...we should be doing so poorly.

This is a conversation that should be had, and the Left doesn't appear ready to participate in such a conversation. At least yet. You'll say positive things about a Euro-social democracy, you'll do everything you can to push us in that direction, but you won't just come out and say that's what you want. That's the "fundamental change" you're after.

The Right continues to miss the target by screaming "socialism" and "Marxism" and "communism", allowing you to avoid the real conversation. A Euro-social Democracy is a different animal.

Wouldn't it be helpful for the Left to just put their cards on the table and open the topic? It's clearly getting closer, but we can't have an honest, constructive conversation until you're up front with it.

.

So we'll be honest only if we agree with what you? This is what it sound like to me.

 

[Brain357]

Germany is a European "Welfare State"...we should be doing so poorly.

This is a conversation that should be had, and the Left doesn't appear ready to participate in such a conversation. At least yet. You'll say positive things about a Euro-social democracy, you'll do everything you can to push us in that direction, but you won't just come out and say that's what you want. That's the "fundamental change" you're after.

The Right continues to miss the target by screaming "socialism" and "Marxism" and "communism", allowing you to avoid the real conversation. A Euro-social Democracy is a different animal.

Wouldn't it be helpful for the Left to just put their cards on the table and open the topic? It's clearly getting closer, but we can't have an honest, constructive conversation until you're up front with it.

.

If the rich would start paying better and stop shipping jobs away we'd never get there. It's this greed moving us that way, not democrats.

 

[Stephanie]

Germany is a European "Welfare State"...we should be doing so poorly.

Only because they had Angela Merkel and we had Barack Obama. Germany resisted most of the crap policies pushed here on deficit spending etc.
But traditionally over the last 30 years Germany's economy has sucked compared to ours. In fact, between 1980 and 2000 the US economy grew by the entire amount of the German economy. That includes jobs.
Go look at the book Cowboy Capitalism, which details all this. Of course that would require you to get off your ass and do something educational so we know that wont happen.

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

The big "hits" to Germany's economy came when it reunited with Eastern Germany and again when with the Bush financial collapse.

But Germany? Has so many social programs you folks think it's a communist nation.

everything that has happened in the whole world is because of Bush
dear gawd,

 

[Mac1958]

Germany is a European "Welfare State"...we should be doing so poorly.

This is a conversation that should be had, and the Left doesn't appear ready to participate in such a conversation. At least yet. You'll say positive things about a Euro-social democracy, you'll do everything you can to push us in that direction, but you won't just come out and say that's what you want. That's the "fundamental change" you're after.

The Right continues to miss the target by screaming "socialism" and "Marxism" and "communism", allowing you to avoid the real conversation. A Euro-social Democracy is a different animal.

Wouldn't it be helpful for the Left to just put their cards on the table and open the topic? It's clearly getting closer, but we can't have an honest, constructive conversation until you're up front with it.

.

So we'll be honest only if we agree with what you? This is what it sound like to me.

Does this mean you're denying my point?

Please note above, where Seawytch agreed. This isn't meant to be a debate, it was from talking to lefties that I arrived at this conclusion.

Look at the posts on this very thread that confirm my point.

So am I right or wrong?

.

 

[kaz]

Is America Doomed to Become a Failed European-Style Welfare State?

Yes

 

[kaz]

Our class has been assigned a paper on the welfare state. Could a knowledgeable conservative please post a list of modern, non-wefare states that are successful? Hurry please, the paper is due Monday.

Any successful country is ultimately overrun by moochers

 

[Mac1958]

The "left" won't say it because it's probably not what they want. It's what I want, but I don't speak for the entire "left" like you do.

Well, I'll be more specific. Just as the Tea Party represents most of the energy on the Right (probably not a good thing for the Right), the social Democrats represent most of the energy on the Left. Size is less important than energy, passion and volume.

I strongly suspect the conversation is coming, but not yet.

.

What is your opinion on the apparent disconnect between the left and right on immigration? It just can't be because the left wants more votes, I just don't believe that. Do you think it is because they want to have a cause to fight for and don't realize the damage or worse yet don't care? Or is this just another wedge issue that they see will unite the Hispanic vote for them against the right?

Well, I think there are a few things at play. I think it's about politics & votes, I there are some who agree with organizations like La Raza that say we stole from Mexico and we should pay the price (Google "Aztlan"), there are those who think we need to be brought down a few notches, etc. etc. - some combination therein. There is no way they don't see the negative ramifications here, so there has to be a reason for it.

Don't forget though, that there are people on the Right who like the cheap labor. They keep their heads down on this debate, but they're not exactly breaking their backs in fixing the problem. They're clearly putting their political interests over everything else here.

.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Germany is a European "Welfare State"...we should be doing so poorly.

"The German government recently said that 6.9 million households live in energy poverty, defined as spending more than 10 per cent of their income on energy. This is partly a result of Germany's Energiewende, the country’s turn away from nuclear and towards renewable energies.

This year alone, German consumers are expected to subsidize green energy to the tune of a whopping €23.6 billion ($33 billion) on top of their normal electricity bills for the so-called “renewable energies reallocation charge.”
Germany's Energy Policy Is Failing the Poor, While Being a Poor Way to Help the Climate | LinkedIn

 

[The Rabbi]

.

It'll end up a Euro-social democracy, which is the goal of many.

Failed? Well, who knows. We're sure as hell going to find out.

.

European -social democracy sounds pretty good to me. Free wi-fi, unions members that sit on the board of directors in countries like Germany. Germany also didn't send all their nation's work to china for corporate profit either like we did. National health care for all, using the countries resources like oil to provide for education like some scandinavian countries do. Now here, some of our young face a lifetime of debt in their search for higher education. To seal their fate, conservatives under bush presidency, passed bills to ensure such debt couldn't be discharged in bankruptcy. Enough demorats went along with this of course. The word conservative in this country at least stands for conserving all the wealth and income gains for the very wealthy and giant corporations. Am I for socialism? Well, without socialism, we wouldn't have social security and medicare. I wonder really how many conservatives would like to get rid of these socialist programs even if they had to take care of their old folks like in days of old.

Yeah free shit sounds good to you. Because you're a low class no good moocher off other people's hard work.
But the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money.

 

[Swagger]

Most European nations are not failures.

That depends on how you define 'failure'. By and large, North Western European states are economically stable and enjoy superior infrastructure, judiciary and services. In contrast, Eastern European states are plagued by corruption, faltering economies and polution. However, the latter seem to remain culturally more healthy, in that they aren't bogged down by multiculturalsim, political correctness and debt slavery.

In any event, Europe is shifting towards the far-right, mainly because people becoming wise to the E.U. and the cultural threat it poses to its member states.

 

[Mac1958]

Most European nations are not failures.

That depends on how you define 'failure'. By and large, North Western European states are economically stable and enjoy superior infrastructure, judiciary and services. In contrast, Eastern European states are plagued by corruption, faltering economies and polution. However, the latter seem to remain culturally more healthy, in that they aren't bogged down by multiculturalsim, political correctness and debt slavery.

In any event, Europe is shifting towards the far-right, mainly because people becoming wise to the E.U. and the cultural threat it poses to its member states.

This is actually the issue on a macro scale.

The hoped-for Euro-social Democracy would certainly (1) lower our overall standard of living and (2) decrease our economic power and influence in the world. But for some people, they're willing to pay that price for the perceived positives of a Euro-social Democracy. For them, there are significant negatives that come with our prosperity, power and influence.

Okay. What I'm looking forward to is a conversation that explores those issues.

.

 

[editec]

The only WELFARE STATE we need to worry about is the CORPORATE WELFARE STATE.

It's killing this nation.

 

[kiwiman127]

Well, this is an interesting article and I believe it has many valid points to why the US's recovery and economical environment is more stable than Europe's.
============================================
Why has Europe's economy done worse than the US?
The eurozone has been subject to more brutal economic policy than the US.
If we compare the economic recovery of the United States since the Great Recession with that of Europe – or more specifically the eurozone countries – the differences are striking, and instructive. The US recession technically lasted about a year and a half – from December 2007 to June 2009. (Of course, for America's 20.3 million unemployed and underemployed, and millions of others, the recession never ended – but more on that below.) The eurozone had a recession of similar length from around January 2008 to April 2009. But it then fell into a longer recession in the third quarter of 2011 that lasted for another two years, and may only be exiting that recession currently.
This makes a big difference in people's lives. In the eurozone, unemployment is at near record levels of 12.1%; while in the US, it is currently 6.7%. Despite the incompleteness of these measures, these numbers are comparable. And, of course, in Spain and Greece unemployment is 26.7 and 27.8%, respectively, with youth unemployment at an intolerable 57.4 and 59.2%.
Why has Europe's economy done worse than the US? | Mark Weisbrot | Comment is free | theguardian.com

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most European nations are not failures.

That depends on how you define 'failure'. By and large, North Western European states are economically stable and enjoy superior infrastructure, judiciary and services. In contrast, Eastern European states are plagued by corruption, faltering economies and polution. However, the latter seem to remain culturally more healthy, in that they aren't bogged down by multiculturalsim, political correctness and debt slavery.

In any event, Europe is shifting towards the far-right, mainly because people becoming wise to the E.U. and the cultural threat it poses to its member states.

Well then, you post a legitimate definition of 'failure' that can be applied to Germany, or Denmark, or France, or Switzerland, or Sweden, or Norway, or Belgium, or the UK.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Germany is a European "Welfare State"...we should be doing so poorly.

"The German government recently said that 6.9 million households live in energy poverty, defined as spending more than 10 per cent of their income on energy. This is partly a result of Germany's Energiewende, the country’s turn away from nuclear and towards renewable energies.

This year alone, German consumers are expected to subsidize green energy to the tune of a whopping €23.6 billion ($33 billion) on top of their normal electricity bills for the so-called “renewable energies reallocation charge.”
Germany's Energy Policy Is Failing the Poor, While Being a Poor Way to Help the Climate | LinkedIn

If you make, say, 4000 a month, and spend 400 a month on energy, that's energy poverty?

Who decided that?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most European nations are not failures.

Oh, so you too agree we should have strict border policies too like them?

Real simple question. Do not think for one second that I do not notice you hypocrties avoiding that aspect of those european countries that you all love so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk_...ss he's chosen the latter. Troll on, mutant.

 

[KissMy]

Republicans keep minimum wage low to maximize dependency on government support. Republicans also blow the budget & inflation claiming they are "Starving the Beast". They are actively trying to create a failed state as fast as possible so they can say see I told ya so.