Intentional Poor

Vikrant

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Apr 20, 2013
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More than two decades ago, then-33-year-old Dan Price had a wife, two small children, a high-interest mortgage, and a stressful job as a photojournalist in Kentucky. He worried daily about money and the workaday grind.

“I told myself, ‘buck up and pay the bills,’” said Price. “This is just the way normal life is.”

Then he learned about what he calls “the simple life.” Price read Payne Hollow, a 1974 book about author Harlan Hubbard’s rejection of modernity and his primitive home on the shore of the Ohio River. Price’s marriage dissolved soon after, and the whole family moved to Oregon, where he grew up. Price opted to move alone into a tiny cabin in the woods, then a flophouse, then a teepee, and finally into an underground “Hobbit hole” on a horse pasture near a river, where he still lives. During the winter, he decamps to Hawaii to surf and avoid the harsh weather.

Price’s version of the simple life costs $5,000 a year, which he earns from publishing a wilderness zine and doing odd jobs around Joseph, his eastern Oregon town. “I like being able to do what I want to do,” said Price, who pays $100 a year for his land. “I don’t believe in houses or mortgages. Who in their right mind would spend their lifetime paying for a building they never get to spend time in because they are always working?”

Price is part of a long tradition of eschewing the American dream of a house with a white-picket fence, from 1920s hobos to 1960s hippies. Nowadays, groups going back-to-basics are just as diverse, such as live-off-the-land types like Price, punky street kids, and twentysomethings living in modest group homes known as intentional communities. But they all have something in common: They’ve chosen poverty.

Some, like Price, have lived this way for decades. For others, it’s a decision spurred by the recession and its exposure of economic precarity. Either way, it’s often a political choice, one that questions a consumerist, deeply stratified society. The intentional poor are “looking for something real that goes beyond commodity,” said Karen Halnon, a sociology professor at Pennsylvania State University and author of "Consumption of Inequality."

...

Living on $5,000 a year, on purpose: Meet America's 'intentional poor' - In Plain Sight
 
Interesting post Vikrant, thanks.

While I get the simple living thing a lot of the extremists have a lifestyle that most would find unpalatable. One doesn't have to be materialistic to enjoy the simple things like a hot shower.

I also wonder about healthcare with these people. Are they truly independent if they would rely on the rest of society to cover their emergency room visit if they have a health crisis?
 
SteadyMercury,

Just like anything in life, true happiness lies in finding right balance. It is always a good idea to look for ways to cut down the cost of living. I am myself thinking of buying a land somewhere in the rural area and build a house and live there. My job takes me all over the places. I am away from my home most of the time. So why make California my home where cost of living is so high?

But yes, I would not go the extreme where I am living in a log cabin, etc. That is too much.
 
Yup that makes sense, if you don't use your home much because of career demands might as well make it cheap but accessible. My wife and I also make effort to cut down on cost of living, everything can be evaluated as what it is worth in terms of what it provides vs. what it costs. My current struggle is cable TV, that shit is expensive and more and more having a good internet connection seems like a reasonable substitute.
 
SteadyMercury,

Just like anything in life, true happiness lies in finding right balance. It is always a good idea to look for ways to cut down the cost of living. I am myself thinking of buying a land somewhere in the rural area and build a house and live there. My job takes me all over the places. I am away from my home most of the time. So why make California my home where cost of living is so high?

But yes, I would not go the extreme where I am living in a log cabin, etc. That is too much.

I think a lot of people miss the important part of the story. In order to do what the article describes, one first has to decide to curb one's desired standard of living. For those who can always live comfortably on 110% of their current income, every increase in income is great for about six months, but then they are back in the same state of feeling deprived. The trick is how to be happy with fewer things.
 
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Yup that makes sense, if you don't use your home much because of career demands might as well make it cheap but accessible. My wife and I also make effort to cut down on cost of living, everything can be evaluated as what it is worth in terms of what it provides vs. what it costs. My current struggle is cable TV, that shit is expensive and more and more having a good internet connection seems like a reasonable substitute.

I think you are lucky that your wife is on board. My wife does not seem to get any of my money saving ideas.
 
Yes - the problem with 'stuff' is that it tends to breed while one's not looking, then you need more places to stash it, and more room and then you also think about things like insuring the stuff, and so on......

The one problem I see with the lifestyle in the OP example is that he has no ability to handle getting ill or having a accident. For a young, healthy, and single person, that's fine.

I do wonder about his two small children, though. I knew a woman whose husband divorced her and then refused to look for a job because he didn't want to pay child support. I just can't get behind any 'intentional poverty' that has such motivation.

When Thoreau did his 'Walden' thing, he didn't do it all on his own: his friends helped him build everything, and kept bringing him food and such...... Just in case people didn't know that.
 
Interesting. Have you read about the small house movement? Small house movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nope. I am just reading it now. I do know however that there are quite a few folks in Oregon who live off land. They live deep in forests. I do not know how they survive. I used to work with a lady who actually built a big house on the US land up on the mountains in Oregon. I do not know how she did that. But that is impressive.
 
Yes - the problem with 'stuff' is that it tends to breed while one's not looking, then you need more places to stash it, and more room and then you also think about things like insuring the stuff, and so on......

The one problem I see with the lifestyle in the OP example is that he has no ability to handle getting ill or having a accident. For a young, healthy, and single person, that's fine.

I do wonder about his two small children, though. I knew a woman whose husband divorced her and then refused to look for a job because he didn't want to pay child support. I just can't get behind any 'intentional poverty' that has such motivation.

When Thoreau did his 'Walden' thing, he didn't do it all on his own: his friends helped him build everything, and kept bringing him food and such...... Just in case people didn't know that.

If I read it correctly, he adopted the hermit lifestyle after getting divorced. His wife and kids are not with him.

I agree with you that this kind of lifestyle is good for young people but for older people it is not going to work. It also has one more flaw. Let us say that you spent all your good years living like a hermit. Now you get old and you have to move to city. You do not have any retirement plans. You do not have any saving. You are going to be in a hell of a trouble.

But I think once you get used to of this lifestyle you probably do not mind growing old in it. I think I have come across some hermits in their 50s.
 
Yup that makes sense, if you don't use your home much because of career demands might as well make it cheap but accessible. My wife and I also make effort to cut down on cost of living, everything can be evaluated as what it is worth in terms of what it provides vs. what it costs. My current struggle is cable TV, that shit is expensive and more and more having a good internet connection seems like a reasonable substitute.

I think you are lucky that your wife is on board. My wife does not seem to get any of my money saving ideas.

Vikrant, I'm sorry for you. These things are much easier as a joint project. The easiest way to save, we found out 39 years ago, is to not 'take' all of any pay raise into one's budgeting. That is, if you get a $25/month raise (or find a $25/month savings, same thing!), you put 1/2 of it directly into savings FIRST. Payroll deductions or whatever, so it never even gets into your bank account to begin with.

Even when I use coupons, I put 1/2 the savings in cash into a 'splurge jar' .... Maybe you don't think that's much, but I get about 25% or more off any grocery bill. I shop the 'scratch 'n' dent' shelves routinely in the supermarket just like I did when husband was an E-4 (he's since retired)......

We spend a ridiculous amount on cable/internet - but then we don't go out for drinks, or to the movies more than a couple of times a year. We record entire miniseries and invite friends over for a show and potluck party about once a month.....
 
...Price’s version of the simple life costs $5,000 a year...
A guy working for me in Panama lives on less than $4k/yr. That's enough for his family of five to live in a 3br brick home inc. water/electricity/sewage/celfones on a 10K SF lot fronting a paved road. He's also got medical/retirement and schooling for the kids. He is not considered 'poor' by himself or his peers.
 
Interesting. Have you read about the small house movement? Small house movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nope. I am just reading it now. I do know however that there are quite a few folks in Oregon who live off land. They live deep in forests. I do not know how they survive. I used to work with a lady who actually built a big house on the US land up on the mountains in Oregon. I do not know how she did that. But that is impressive.

In Mississippi people build little houses with no electricity or indoor plumbing in the woods all the time. They are called "deer camps".
 
I wonder what the Panama guy's monthly budget looks like, as in how much of his $330/month goes to food for five, utilities, cell phones, housing etc.
 
not sure of all the details but his water bill is like $10/year and the electricity is under $10/month. Remember there's no heating or air-conditioning costs here. He doesn't own and doesn't need a car (work is a 5min. walk away). I believe there's no property or income taxes.

A lot of Americans moving down here.
 
I don't know where in Panama you live so I didn't know if he'd have an air conditioner of not. I'm guessing Boquete if no AC, because even people down the hill in David often have window AC units.

Panama does have property taxes though, but this guy's utility bills are insanely low even for a local with no AC. Kudos to him for whatever he is doing to live that cheaply with five people in the house.
 
Yup that makes sense, if you don't use your home much because of career demands might as well make it cheap but accessible. My wife and I also make effort to cut down on cost of living, everything can be evaluated as what it is worth in terms of what it provides vs. what it costs. My current struggle is cable TV, that shit is expensive and more and more having a good internet connection seems like a reasonable substitute.

I think you are lucky that your wife is on board. My wife does not seem to get any of my money saving ideas.

Vikrant, I'm sorry for you. These things are much easier as a joint project. The easiest way to save, we found out 39 years ago, is to not 'take' all of any pay raise into one's budgeting. That is, if you get a $25/month raise (or find a $25/month savings, same thing!), you put 1/2 of it directly into savings FIRST. Payroll deductions or whatever, so it never even gets into your bank account to begin with.

Even when I use coupons, I put 1/2 the savings in cash into a 'splurge jar' .... Maybe you don't think that's much, but I get about 25% or more off any grocery bill. I shop the 'scratch 'n' dent' shelves routinely in the supermarket just like I did when husband was an E-4 (he's since retired)......

We spend a ridiculous amount on cable/internet - but then we don't go out for drinks, or to the movies more than a couple of times a year. We record entire miniseries and invite friends over for a show and potluck party about once a month.....

You are correct. Without her cooperation, it does not matter how hard I try, the saving efforts do not work.
 
not sure of all the details but his water bill is like $10/year and the electricity is under $10/month. Remember there's no heating or air-conditioning costs here. He doesn't own and doesn't need a car (work is a 5min. walk away). I believe there's no property or income taxes.

A lot of Americans moving down here.

Purchasing power parity (PPT) is more accurate measure of what kind of lifestyle you can afford as opposed to dollar. Even though Panama's currency may be weaker compared to the US dollar in international market but internally the currency can give you more bang for the buck than dollar. When we measure wealth in other countries, we simply compare the value of dollar in the currency of other countries. This does not give an accurate picture.
 
...Purchasing power parity (PPT) is more accurate measure of what kind of lifestyle you can afford as opposed to dollar. Even though Panama's currency may be weaker compared to the US dollar in international market...
Please understand that this is what Panamanians use for money:
dollarbill.jpg

What's different Their government rules over just 3 million people, their minimum wage is a dollar/hour, and they don't have is a distant federal government lumping them together with 300million others. So many differences --they got no crazy mob of tort lawyers running amok. Gov't bureaucracy is practically non-existent compared to the US.

Don't get me wrong though, working in the US (imho) is better, which is why I work in the US even while I live here. Altogether I'd have to admit everything in the US is bigger and better --it's just I personally prefer things smaller and more interesting.
 

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