If we all came from 2 people

[Fort Fun Indiana]

believe that the potential for consciousness to exist, existed when space and time were created.

Fascinating. Now, your next premise....here we go...baby steps....

Doesn't make any sense if you don't agree with this one, now does it?

Of course it still makes sense. The premises dont have to be always true in a valid argument.

So, next premise....

 

[ding]

believe that the potential for consciousness to exist, existed when space and time were created.

Fascinating. Now, your next premise....here we go...baby steps....

Doesn't make any sense if you don't agree with this one, now does it?

Of course it still makes sense. The premises dont have to be always true in a valid argument.

So, next premise....

What you just wrote doesn't make any sense. Please give me an example of a false premise being used in a valid argument.

Can I assume that when you say something makes sense that it means you believe it to be true.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Please give me an example of a false premise being used in a valid argument

Hey dude...I think you are going to want to look up "valid" vs. "sound" argument before you say another word.

Can I assume that when you say something makes sense that it means you believe it to be true.

No, you cannot. You CAN assume I mean that it seems like valid logic.

 

[ding]

Please give me an example of a false premise being used in a valid argument.

Hey dude...I think you are going to want to look up "valid" vs. "sound" argument before you say another word.

Thanks for that helpful, non-responsive to the question, advice.

Can I assume that when you say something makes sense that it means you believe it to be true.

No, you cannot. You CAN assume I mean that it seems like valid logic.

Do you normally believe in things that are illogical? Which subset would your beliefs fall under?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Thanks for that helpful, non-responsive to the question, advice

You didn't ask a question. You made a request. The simple search I suggested would have answered a few questions I bet.

By "valid" argument, I am referring to an argument that follows the rules of logic. A "sound" argument is a valid argument, the premises of which are always true.

This being the case, we can still assess whether or not your argument "makes sense", or is valid, regardless if whether not I agree with your premises.

So...your argument? I'll start it off:

The potential for consciousness to exist, existed when space and time were created.

 

[ding]

What determined or controlled what had potential to exist when space and time were created?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What determined what had potential to exist when space and time were created?

You tell us. Will this be your next premise?

 

[ding]

What determined what had potential to exist when space and time were created?

You tell us. Will this be your next premise?

Rules determined what had potential to exist when space and time were created.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

1) The potential for consciousness to exist, existed when space and time were created.
2) Rules determined what had potential to exist when space and time were created.

Go on....

 

[ricechickie]

You mean that loving, compassionate, pro-life God????

God wasnt loving in the OT. But he changed! So there is that!
I find it funny, his rape victims child said god is all loving..
Must have went to Rehab. I just cant figure out if it was before or after the rape

Dad reformed. In that case, his first book should be tossed as irrelevant.

Unless it’s all used as a collection of entertaining stories.

No. It all works together. Neither of you understand it because you are certain that you can't be wrong.

I’ve never suffered from that particular certainty in my whole life.

However, that doesn’t mean I am a pushover for specious arguments.

Because people like you and Fort Fun are such honest people to have discussions with, right?

Now you’re mad.

I’m not a pushover for pouting, either.

 

[ding]

God wasnt loving in the OT. But he changed! So there is that!
I find it funny, his rape victims child said god is all loving..
Must have went to Rehab. I just cant figure out if it was before or after the rape

Dad reformed. In that case, his first book should be tossed as irrelevant.

Unless it’s all used as a collection of entertaining stories.

No. It all works together. Neither of you understand it because you are certain that you can't be wrong.

I’ve never suffered from that particular certainty in my whole life.

However, that doesn’t mean I am a pushover for specious arguments.

Because people like you and Fort Fun are such honest people to have discussions with, right?

Now you’re mad.

I’m not a pushover for pouting, either.

I was being honest. I'm sure you are a nice person. But not in most of our discussions.

 

[ricechickie]

Dad reformed. In that case, his first book should be tossed as irrelevant.

Unless it’s all used as a collection of entertaining stories.

No. It all works together. Neither of you understand it because you are certain that you can't be wrong.

I’ve never suffered from that particular certainty in my whole life.

However, that doesn’t mean I am a pushover for specious arguments.

Because people like you and Fort Fun are such honest people to have discussions with, right?

Now you’re mad.

I’m not a pushover for pouting, either.

I was being honest. I'm sure you are a nice person. But not in most of our discussions.

That’s not honesty; that’s snark.

You asked an insincere question to demonstrate that you think I’m dishonest.

It’s bullshit.

And now you change the goalpost to how “nice” I am. No, I am not nice. Put me on ignore if you’re going to whine about it. As far as you’re concerned, I have resting bitch face, and I will not smile to make you feel better.

Got it?

 

[hobelim]

Do you have faith that the conclusions you make from evidence based knowledge is always accurate?

No, and we have been over this many times. It's akin to placing a bet. We can safely accept evolution as fact, as it is so well supported.

Sorry Hobelim....never will you ever place magical faith on thesame shelf as evidence based knowledge. You may succeed in fooling youeself that you have, but that will be the extent of the success of your con.

I see. you are under the curse of the liar. You think everyone is either full of shit or trying to con you..

Be that as it may, I have absolutely no interest in convincing you of anything, so relax.

My interactions with you is for the benefit of others standing around, watching.

Your deliberate blindness and obstinate stupidity are just small contributions to an accumulating mountain of overwhelming evidence that the laws of God remain in effect and are in full force.




Thank you for so generously providing the evidence based knowledge that more highly evolved creatures will acquire..

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You think everyone is either full of shit or trying to con you..

No, but I recognize the tactics of those who are. And no, i certainly don't think that about everyone, and not even most people. You? yes. Ding? Yes. Both of you use tired old tricks and commit the same fallacies repeatedly. You both seem to believe that reiterating authoritative statements is the same as arguing them. You both make heavy use of the Gish Gallop, and of the "bait-and-switch". You both thrive very much on the innate trouble people have (and you both have a lot trouble with it, which explains why living in this space is so comfortable for both of you) understanding the negations of universal and existential statements.

And that is just a partial list. Yes, you are both charlatans.

 

[ding]

No. It all works together. Neither of you understand it because you are certain that you can't be wrong.

I’ve never suffered from that particular certainty in my whole life.

However, that doesn’t mean I am a pushover for specious arguments.

Because people like you and Fort Fun are such honest people to have discussions with, right?

Now you’re mad.

I’m not a pushover for pouting, either.

I was being honest. I'm sure you are a nice person. But not in most of our discussions.

That’s not honesty; that’s snark.

You asked an insincere question to demonstrate that you think I’m dishonest.

It’s bullshit.

And now you change the goalpost to how “nice” I am. No, I am not nice. Put me on ignore if you’re going to whine about it. As far as you’re concerned, I have resting bitch face, and I will not smile to make you feel better.

Got it?

Ok, that was honest snark.

It is the sum of our previous conversations that led me to my current opinion.

I do think you are probably a nice person. Bitches can be nice people too.

 

[hobelim]

You think everyone is either full of shit or trying to con you..

No, but I recognize the tactics of those who are. And no, i certainly don't think that about everyone, and not even most people. You? yes. Ding? Yes. Both of you use tired old tricks and commit the same fallacies repeatedly. You both seem to believe that reiterating authoritative statements is the same as arguing them. You both make heavy use of the Gish Gallop, and of the "bait-and-switch". You both thrive very much on the innate trouble people have (and you both have a lot trouble with it, which explains why living in this space is so comfortable for both of you) understanding the negations of universal and existential statements.

And that is just a partial list. Yes, you are both charlatans.

Oy vey. Here we go again..


A charlatan does not work to reveal the truth to free people from the deceptions of charlatans..


Your inability to understand simply things is not a reflection of a flaw or an indication of deceit in me.

It is evidence that the laws of God remain in effect and are in full force, evidence based knowledge upon which more ethical and intelligent creatures will build a new world on over the ruins of the old. Beliefs that are verifiable, conform to and have been confirmed by reality, courtesy of you and many others..


Thank you for helping me to show the wisdom of God in giving the law and for so generously demonstrating the terrifying and disturbing consequences for setting it aside as an irrational belief in magical bullshit.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

A charlatan does not work to reveal the truth to free people from the deceptions of charlatans.

Of course he does, when he wants them instead to buy the nonsense he is peddling. Duh, hobelim. You're not even trying, now.

It is evidence that the laws of God remain in effect and are in full force

Certainly not "full force", how fucking absurd, pick up a newspaper, you sound like a goddamn crazy person.

And what force our laws do have comes purely from our own, rigorous efforts. we have societies made up of human beings, enforcing a code, for various reasons. Our country is better than most, in that we have a better social contract -- thanks to secular ideas like classical liberalism,scientific enlightenment, and secular government, make NO mistake about that -- and even that came about by the mental rigor of millennia of accumulated knowledge.

If you want to chalk this up to something magical, be my guest. Doesn't matter to me in the least. If you point at something and say, "God did it!". That shouldn't have any effect on anyone who actually explains it (using evidence). "Thanks, god did it.... mmmmkay Shaman, but he did it this way, so listen up...". Maybe the ineffectual nature of your bullshit should alert you to the overall nature of your bullshit.

So, we're good. No conflict, god did it, fine, have a nice day.

 

[hobelim]

Certainly not "full force", how fucking absurd, pick up a newspaper, you sound like a goddamn crazy person.

Right. Read a newspaper.

War, madness, corruption, violence, disease, famine, etc., etc., and the people of a nation supposedly dedicated to liberty truth and justice have elected the most despicable deceitful self indulgent person out there to be their leader. And the elected officials entrusted to protect the liberty of the people are crying lock em up, build prisons and walls, and cheering him on so they can raid the treasury and enrich themselves while this asshole runs amok .

All of the maledictions promised for setting aside the instruction given in divine law, and then some.

You'd have to be blind not to see.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

and the people of a nation supposedly dedicated to liberty truth and justice have elected the most despicable deceitful self indulgent person out there to be their leader.

And this is the country most capable of surviving such a thing. I don't think these two facts are unrelated. yes, our country is better than most, due to our better social contract. The best? no way. But pretty damn good.

All of the maledictions promised for setting aside the instruction given in divine law.

Yes, IMAGINE the "divine wisdom" needed to predict things that had always happened, were happening at the time, and have always happened since.



Give me a fucking break, dude. But anyhoo... you're kind of cementing that "charlatan" reputation right now.

 

[hobelim]

and the people of a nation supposedly dedicated to liberty truth and justice have elected the most despicable deceitful self indulgent person out there to be their leader.

And this is the country most capable of surviving such a thing. I don't think these two facts are unrelated. yes, our country is better than most, due to our better social contract. The best? no way. But pretty damn good.

All of the maledictions promised for setting aside the instruction given in divine law.

Yes, IMAGINE the "divine wisdom" needed to predict things that had always happened, were happening at the time, and have always happened since.



Give me a fucking break, dude. But anyhoo... you're kind of cementing that "charlatan" reputation right now.

No, such things were not always happening in every nation and kingdom..Now whose a charlatan? whose selling bullshit?

Nations rise and fall. Nothing surprising there.


What was predicted that never happened before is happening right now.

The end of such things as a direct result of the revelation of divine wisdom, a hidden book of the law, found buried in the wall of the Temple..