If this is true, we are in trouble...

[Redfish]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

That is a VERY ugly picture & it looks pretty accurate IMO.
What does the picture tell US?
It tells US that our government has FAILED.
'We the people' have failed because we didn't make our collective voice known as one.

One thing that could have REALLY HELPED here:
NOT blowing $3 TRILLION on G. W. Bush's wars of choice.
Just think IF that $3 TRILLION would have been invested in America, on OUR soil, instead of being shitted out across the ME?

The MIC is a cancer upon not only the US but the planet at large. IKE was right but NOBODY listened.
The US has based it's economy on building weapons of death, selling those weapons to the planet at large, destabilizing the planet, and we have spread fear & paranoia like a plague.

We could have built this nation into a mighty force that is actually respected around the globe, a society where everyone is educated to a college level no matter what race or the color of one's skin, we could have built infrastructure to rival our own best efforts, we could have demanded OUR government NOT be the world police but we have FAILED at every one of those points, and more.

We shall reap as we have sown.

I will say this:
Giving endless, record tax breaks to the wealthiest 0.01% & to the corporations is NOT going to make any of the above better BUT it will MAKE IT WORSE.
Anyone that fell for the McConnell, Ryan, Trump, GOP tax break lie is a complete fvcking idiot but just keep on believing.

I agree with all of that but would add, that Big Ears and the Fed did much worse than W. They spent $26 TRILLION enriching the rich, yet few Americans know this. I wonder why.

because the media has become the propaganda arm of the dem/lib party.

And they have done much to divide Americans so that the ruling class can continue to enrich and empower itself. The MSM is not just the communications department of the D party. They are really the communications department of the ruling class.

Wrong, very wrong. when the media shows tens of thousands of americans at a Trump rally, which ruling class are they representing? the people in the audience are not ruling class, they are normal americans who see things looking up for them personally due to Trump's common sense approach to economics.

Its fine if you don't like Trump's persona or his manner of speaking, but you cannot truthfully argue with his results----------and isn't that what really matters? aren't results what we want from a president?

 

[Redfish]

Capitalism has proven to be about as bad as Communism for the West.

Communists also went decade after decade with no growth of the economy.

Capitalism may have helped build America it will also help destroy America too.

Well if you were born poor, what system would you prefer to be poor under, Communism or capitalism? If you're born poor under Communism, that's the way you're going to stay because there is no way out of it. Capitalism just the opposite.

At this rate Capitalism looks even more hopeless than Communism.

Why?
A.) Capitalism will eventually outsource all the decent jobs which doesn't happen in Communism.

B.) Capitalism is leading to cultural replacement by immigrants here for cheap labor.

bullshit. capitalism is the only system that has ever worked anywhere in the world in the history of the world.

 

[Tehon]

We don't have true Capitalism anymore......we have Croney Capitalism.....Where the Gov't picks and chooses the winners and get to join the millionaires club for doing so........The Founding Fathers warned us that it would destroy us and they were correct......

Marx was never correct........and Marx is a blueprint for disaster well beyond Capitalism.

You think Marx never wrote about how capitalists bought government?

Marx was right about a lot things. He knew capitalism would devolve into the mess we have today and he predicted it in his writings. However, I am not sure his solutions are the answer.

As long as we have a elite class who believes it is their God given right to rule and plunder, no system is going to work. If this continues unabated, the people will eventually rise up against the elites. It just might be a re-enactment of the French Revolution.

The problem is the establishment, MSM, academia, Hollywood, political class, big business, big government are working together to divide the people, so that we don't take them out. This divisive strategy is working well. We see it on this forum every day..

We are headed for a new social revolution. The outcome of which will largely depend on the consciousness of society. Based on what we see here on USMB , we are doomed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Capitalism has proven to be about as bad as Communism for the West.

Communists also went decade after decade with no growth of the economy.

Capitalism may have helped build America it will also help destroy America too.

Well if you were born poor, what system would you prefer to be poor under, Communism or capitalism? If you're born poor under Communism, that's the way you're going to stay because there is no way out of it. Capitalism just the opposite.

At this rate Capitalism looks even more hopeless than Communism.

Why?
A.) Capitalism will eventually outsource all the decent jobs which doesn't happen in Communism.

B.) Capitalism is leading to cultural replacement by immigrants here for cheap labor.

That has little to do with capitalism. That has to do with the American consumer.

Since the 80's, our country has become obsessed with cheap. I don't care where it's made, what the quality, just sell it to me as cheap as possible.

So you and I are competitors in the widget business. You pay your workers well and offer great benefits. I decide to move my operations overseas. Now I start taking your customers because I can produce my widgets and ship them back to the US for half the cost it takes to make yours. Now you have two choices: move overseas like I did, or join your former employees in the Unemployment Line.

That's the problem.

 

[Correll]

I agree, and most communists know that when communists take over, a lot of people have to die.


Tehon. HOw many people do you think would die, once the communists take over?

Communism was bad, indeed.

Communism belongs in the junk pile but so does Capitalism.

Capitalism has a different set of problems.

Like Commies didn't outsource jobs, or insource illegals.

These are very real & dire issues of Capitalism.

We had capitalism without outsourcing, or massive immigration in the past, and we can again.


It is not inherent to Capitalism.

Not too much.
The USA had states rights on businesses during the 19th century.
Most states regulated business heavily.

Then Teddy Roosevelt trust busted monopolies & as most here know FDR had a strongly regulated economy.

Capitalism really came to the USA post WW2.

Within 15 - 20 years of Capitalism companies began outsourcing in mass & hiring more immigrants AGAIN.

Capitalism does not require zero regulation.


You are pretending it does so you can deny the periods of capitalistic success which undermines your narrative.


Not only that, but Fascism is all about government control of industry. IF that is not "regulation" in your mind, then I think you are playing word games.

Before 1886 Corporations were very heavily regulated by state charters as this article outlines.
The Rise of Corporations — Global Issues

Basically the USA did have more in common with Fascism untill WW.
Capitalism started slowly after 1886 & both Roosevelts were keeping

I am sorry. YOu have raised a new and potentially valid point about the history of regulations that I am not informed on, and I do not have the motivation at this time to educate myself on. ( I am tired, sick and busy)

I will keep this in mind, and if it keeps coming up, I will in look into it in the future.

 

[Tehon]

I'm willing to die to preserve the American way of life. True story.


One difference between Communists and Americans in America, is that Americans grew up shooting and probably have grandpappy's gun.
s.

I agree, and most communists know that when communists take over, a lot of people have to die.


Tehon. HOw many people do you think would die, once the communists take over?

You guys are fantasizing. You paste a fake label of communist on people without thinking what you are doing, then fantasize acting upon it...with guns. If that ain't MOB RULE, I don't know what is.

Tehon has admitted that he supports a scenario where communists take over and those who hold counter revolutionary thoughts will be "dealt with".

He dodged when I asked him if he would support his communist government going though the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting those with the wrong views.

He supports an outcome that he knows will likely result in mine and Morrison's death.


And you are attacking US for saying we would fight that?

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

 

[Redfish]

Capitalism has proven to be about as bad as Communism for the West.

Communists also went decade after decade with no growth of the economy.

Capitalism may have helped build America it will also help destroy America too.

Well if you were born poor, what system would you prefer to be poor under, Communism or capitalism? If you're born poor under Communism, that's the way you're going to stay because there is no way out of it. Capitalism just the opposite.

At this rate Capitalism looks even more hopeless than Communism.

Why?
A.) Capitalism will eventually outsource all the decent jobs which doesn't happen in Communism.

B.) Capitalism is leading to cultural replacement by immigrants here for cheap labor.

That has little to do with capitalism. That has to do with the American consumer.

Since the 80's, our country has become obsessed with cheap. I don't care where it's made, what the quality, just sell it to me as cheap as possible.

So you and I are competitors in the widget business. You pay your workers well and offer great benefits. I decide to move my operations overseas. Now I start taking your customers because I can produce my widgets and ship them back to the US for half the cost it takes to make yours. Now you have two choices: move overseas like I did, or join your former employees in the Unemployment Line.

That's the problem.

and the fix is simple, put tariffs on the foreign built crap, or don't buy it and opt for quality at a higher price.

 

[Dale Smith]

Getting rid of the foriegn owned Federal Reserve central bank would be a tremendous move in the right direction.

 

[Redfish]

I agree, and most communists know that when communists take over, a lot of people have to die.


Tehon. HOw many people do you think would die, once the communists take over?

You guys are fantasizing. You paste a fake label of communist on people without thinking what you are doing, then fantasize acting upon it...with guns. If that ain't MOB RULE, I don't know what is.

Tehon has admitted that he supports a scenario where communists take over and those who hold counter revolutionary thoughts will be "dealt with".

He dodged when I asked him if he would support his communist government going though the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting those with the wrong views.

He supports an outcome that he knows will likely result in mine and Morrison's death.


And you are attacking US for saying we would fight that?

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

How's that working out in Venezuela? the people are eating zoo animals and pet parrots.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Capitalism has proven to be about as bad as Communism for the West.

Communists also went decade after decade with no growth of the economy.

Capitalism may have helped build America it will also help destroy America too.

Well if you were born poor, what system would you prefer to be poor under, Communism or capitalism? If you're born poor under Communism, that's the way you're going to stay because there is no way out of it. Capitalism just the opposite.

At this rate Capitalism looks even more hopeless than Communism.

Why?
A.) Capitalism will eventually outsource all the decent jobs which doesn't happen in Communism.

B.) Capitalism is leading to cultural replacement by immigrants here for cheap labor.

That has little to do with capitalism. That has to do with the American consumer.

Since the 80's, our country has become obsessed with cheap. I don't care where it's made, what the quality, just sell it to me as cheap as possible.

So you and I are competitors in the widget business. You pay your workers well and offer great benefits. I decide to move my operations overseas. Now I start taking your customers because I can produce my widgets and ship them back to the US for half the cost it takes to make yours. Now you have two choices: move overseas like I did, or join your former employees in the Unemployment Line.

That's the problem.

and the fix is simple, put tariffs on the foreign built crap, or don't buy it and opt for quality at a higher price.

Or promote Buy American which Trump should have been doing all along. The problem is that he can't due to his past business dealings.

 

[Lysistrata]

It depends on the social conditions prevalent at the time of any revolution.

In your scenario, would you support arresting people for holding counter revolutionary views?

At a certain point in any revolution there will come a time when dissenters will have to be dealt with.

Would you support going though the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting people who revealed such counter revolutionary views?

That is ridiculous. Of course not.

We are not anywhere near a revolutionary moment.

The question was not about how close we are, but about what you communists would do if you take over.


That you dodged, shows the answer. YOu would support it. You would support going thrown the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting all those with the wrong views.

What about members of suspect churches, like the Mormons, or Evangelicals. Are they all to be rounded up too?

What are you talking about? Mormons and evangelicals, yes, they exist here, but no one is talking about rounding them up. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to live with them by law, the same thing as fundie Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and everyone else.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I agree, and most communists know that when communists take over, a lot of people have to die.


Tehon. HOw many people do you think would die, once the communists take over?

You guys are fantasizing. You paste a fake label of communist on people without thinking what you are doing, then fantasize acting upon it...with guns. If that ain't MOB RULE, I don't know what is.

Tehon has admitted that he supports a scenario where communists take over and those who hold counter revolutionary thoughts will be "dealt with".

He dodged when I asked him if he would support his communist government going though the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting those with the wrong views.

He supports an outcome that he knows will likely result in mine and Morrison's death.


And you are attacking US for saying we would fight that?

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Capitalism has proven to be about as bad as Communism for the West.

Communists also went decade after decade with no growth of the economy.

Capitalism may have helped build America it will also help destroy America too.

Well if you were born poor, what system would you prefer to be poor under, Communism or capitalism? If you're born poor under Communism, that's the way you're going to stay because there is no way out of it. Capitalism just the opposite.

At this rate Capitalism looks even more hopeless than Communism.

Why?
A.) Capitalism will eventually outsource all the decent jobs which doesn't happen in Communism.

B.) Capitalism is leading to cultural replacement by immigrants here for cheap labor.

bullshit. capitalism is the only system that has ever worked anywhere in the world in the history of the world.

No Fascism is.

Fascist style governments were #1 in economic growth.

Such as Francos Spanish miracle the top European growth champions of 20th century Europe.
Nazis had the best economic turn around from the Great Depression.
And
FDR who was also like a Fascist achieved the top economic growth in 20th century USA.

 

[jillian]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Those stats sound right. There is however nothing in current tax policy or national policy that strengthens the middle class

But no doubt the thought is comforting

 

[jillian]

You guys are fantasizing. You paste a fake label of communist on people without thinking what you are doing, then fantasize acting upon it...with guns. If that ain't MOB RULE, I don't know what is.

Tehon has admitted that he supports a scenario where communists take over and those who hold counter revolutionary thoughts will be "dealt with".

He dodged when I asked him if he would support his communist government going though the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting those with the wrong views.

He supports an outcome that he knows will likely result in mine and Morrison's death.


And you are attacking US for saying we would fight that?

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

You mean like corporate welfare, little dupe?

 

[Redfish]

Capitalism has proven to be about as bad as Communism for the West.

Communists also went decade after decade with no growth of the economy.

Capitalism may have helped build America it will also help destroy America too.

Well if you were born poor, what system would you prefer to be poor under, Communism or capitalism? If you're born poor under Communism, that's the way you're going to stay because there is no way out of it. Capitalism just the opposite.

At this rate Capitalism looks even more hopeless than Communism.

Why?
A.) Capitalism will eventually outsource all the decent jobs which doesn't happen in Communism.

B.) Capitalism is leading to cultural replacement by immigrants here for cheap labor.

That has little to do with capitalism. That has to do with the American consumer.

Since the 80's, our country has become obsessed with cheap. I don't care where it's made, what the quality, just sell it to me as cheap as possible.

So you and I are competitors in the widget business. You pay your workers well and offer great benefits. I decide to move my operations overseas. Now I start taking your customers because I can produce my widgets and ship them back to the US for half the cost it takes to make yours. Now you have two choices: move overseas like I did, or join your former employees in the Unemployment Line.

That's the problem.

and the fix is simple, put tariffs on the foreign built crap, or don't buy it and opt for quality at a higher price.

Or promote Buy American which Trump should have been doing all along. The problem is that he can't due to his past business dealings.

Actually he has been promoting buy American, have you listened to any of his rallys? If you have a 401K, you probably have foreign business dealings, almost all of us do and there is nothing wrong with that for us or Trump.

 

[Redfish]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Those stats sound right. There is however nothing in current tax policy or national policy that strengthens the middle class

But no doubt the thought is comforting

lower taxes and more jobs does not help the middle class?????????? really?????

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Capitalism has proven to be about as bad as Communism for the West.

Communists also went decade after decade with no growth of the economy.

Capitalism may have helped build America it will also help destroy America too.

Well if you were born poor, what system would you prefer to be poor under, Communism or capitalism? If you're born poor under Communism, that's the way you're going to stay because there is no way out of it. Capitalism just the opposite.

At this rate Capitalism looks even more hopeless than Communism.

Why?
A.) Capitalism will eventually outsource all the decent jobs which doesn't happen in Communism.

B.) Capitalism is leading to cultural replacement by immigrants here for cheap labor.

That has little to do with capitalism. That has to do with the American consumer.

Since the 80's, our country has become obsessed with cheap. I don't care where it's made, what the quality, just sell it to me as cheap as possible.

So you and I are competitors in the widget business. You pay your workers well and offer great benefits. I decide to move my operations overseas. Now I start taking your customers because I can produce my widgets and ship them back to the US for half the cost it takes to make yours. Now you have two choices: move overseas like I did, or join your former employees in the Unemployment Line.

That's the problem.

and the fix is simple, put tariffs on the foreign built crap, or don't buy it and opt for quality at a higher price.

Even easier criminalize outsourcing throw a few bastids behind bars & problem solved by example

 

[Theowl32]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

California is the canary in the mineshaft. The middle class is all but entirely priced out.

The traitorous media will not hype what caused it. Like Venezuela, socialist policies through over regulations.

The media certainly makes it seem and it is entirely true, if you are wealthy and a member of the rich leftists club, you have it made. Socially accepted by your peers. Every day is like living in Disneyland.

Tent city though. Opportunity for small business utterly destroyed. The ambitious in the serf class done away with.

It's a socialist's paradise. Yes, that is where are headed.

 

[Redfish]

Tehon has admitted that he supports a scenario where communists take over and those who hold counter revolutionary thoughts will be "dealt with".

He dodged when I asked him if he would support his communist government going though the archives of this site and others like it, and arresting those with the wrong views.

He supports an outcome that he knows will likely result in mine and Morrison's death.


And you are attacking US for saying we would fight that?

To be clear.

I support a scenario where society decides that the capitalist system is failing to meet our needs and moves in the direction of a new social relationship that does meet our needs.

I do not support a scenario where a minority gains control and imposes its will on society.

Socialism is a wonderful system until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Which is why Marxists would abolish private property.

Other people's money is no longer a problem.

Correct, if you're the one getting the money. After all, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

You mean like corporate welfare, little dupe?

please give us your definition of corporate welfare, I will anxiously await your response.